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This game owns because it has literally no redeeming qualities. There is nothing good about it except for how purestrain terrible it is, and that is almost admirable. Someone was saying, and it's going to come up more often, that it looks almost fun if someone competent is playing it. So that surely must mean that, given enough effort on the player's side, you can glean some enjoyment from it ergo it's at least sometimes good? No, that's not the case. You see, there are indeed glimpses of where the game could be fun, where you're zooming along dash panels and loops up into a crowd of enemies, then you homing attack from one to the next and it's sweet, you land in a crowd and identify their boss and take him out and everything explodes and WOW that was almost something resembling awesome gameplay! But wait, the last step never happened because the homing attack as well as the camera are absurd pieces of trash and the enemies have health bars for some reason. You try to re-do it after you die from the next glitch and whoops the enemy gets its shield up and some homing missile shoots your rear end away. Or, you hit the spring and the spring goes sproing and you go to the next spring! There's a rainbow ring, so homing attack forward, yes, you hit it! It catapults you towards a line of rings so lightspeed-dash time and oh whoops it's quite impossible to hit because you are not, indeed, playing a fun game. In this first level alone you have an instance of exactly that happening in reverse (the lightspeed dash to a rainbow ring is nigh-impossible to pull off, MassRaf comments on that), you have a dashboard that if you go as quickly as possible will without fail zoom you directly into a spikebar that's far to slow too move out of the way (and you can't possibly jump over it in time because the dash panel takes away your control for too long). In the mach speed section, there are a ridiculous number of rings and power-ups that are so far out of the way of the rocket-powered soap sled Sonic that no human ability will suffice to get them. What I'm saying is that the game is so bad that it actively hobbles its own ability to be fun even if you try. It's outstanding, really. Of course I played this and I bemoan the fact that the one friend I know who owns a PS3 (for which I bought it as cheaply as possible) trashed his console and hasn't fixed it for years. We got so drunk and had so much fun for no reasons a game should ever be fun.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:59
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 Journey with Tails, Princess Elise and Sonic to the Dusty Desert! Can Sonic get the princess through all of the robots, spikes and sand? Will Elise's secret power help us get across the deadly sand? If we can survive the sand, will we survive Alfred Bester's worst nightmare? Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PX7KMAXfyk Edit: A question for everyone, would shorter ~15 minute videos like these be better, or would slightly less frequent 20-30 minute videos work better? On one hand these short videos have like 5 minutes of gameplay, on the other a longer video may have upwards of 15 minutes of loading. Short bursts of crap seem more palatable to me. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Aug 12, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 21:49
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To be honest, I let the game play in the background unless I hear sounds of it breaking or cries of surprise. So I like the longer ones. 
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Aug 12, 2014 22:20
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Yo MassRafTer, you and Hulkamatt are getting a bit drowned out here and there in the videos, moreso during actual gameplay like missions and stages. Probably due to more prominent music and more sound effects flying around? Anyway, you might want to look at the sound levels or whatever.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:27
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I must say watching someone play this game who is actually good at it is quite the different experience -- I like it. Hey now, there's no shame in liking bad games, they, too, can be fun in their own, special way. I say, let's track down a copy of Bubsy 3D for MassRafTer's next project, who's with me? As for your question, I feel that 15 minute episodes are perfect for this game. Re: people liking Sonic, I daresay that when the first Sonic game came out, it was the very first platformer to feel unique enough to be its own thing in an ocean of Mario clones. Things like the ability to speed through levels, the "racing" physics, killing enemies by spinning into them and the ring system hadn't really been done before. Furthermore, the game was really pretty for its time and did a commendable job at playing to the strengths of the Sega Genesis while masking its weaknesses. Even though Mario always had more to offer in the way of depth and complexity, I still think there was also a good, solid game underneath all of this, even though some of the level designs in Sonic 1 can be kind of a slog and Sonic 3 and up had some levels that dragged on a bit too long. Sonic 2 really hit the sweet spot, though, if you ask me.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:30
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Simply Simon posted:This game owns because it has literally no redeeming qualities. There is nothing good about it except for how purestrain terrible it is, and that is almost admirable. It's amazing how much it crops up in different ways. If you are new to the game you will die several times because things just aren't set up right. It's amazing how bad the timing is in this game. You almost never hit a section where you can go from point to point to point and every enemy, obstacle and power up lines up to do that. This is to blame partially on the levels having branching paths so it is difficult to achieve that kind of gameplay, but even with clubs of enemies it becomes very hard to master going from enemy to enemy to enemy in quick succession. You'll find yourself trying to move the camera to find that last enemy that is too high up, behind a tree, glitching into a building or whatever. The only time this isn't true is using the Silver glitches, because those let you just avoid most every enemy and trap. The levels can't get in the way of fun when you don't have to play them. Lizard Wizard posted:Yo MassRafTer, you and Hulkamatt are getting a bit drowned out here and there in the videos, moreso during actual gameplay like missions and stages. Probably due to more prominent music and more sound effects flying around? Anyway, you might want to look at the sound levels or whatever. I'll segment the audio so the action sections are quieter. I was trying to keep the game loud enough that the dialogue could be heard when we weren't talking but forgot how many loud, annoying effects play during levels. I was wondering if this might be an issue, but to my ear it sounded OK. Of course I know what we're saying so it's easier for me to pick up, versus someone trying to listen for the first time. fixelbrumpf posted:I must say watching someone play this game who is actually good at it is quite the different experience -- I like it. Hey now, there's no shame in liking bad games, they, too, can be fun in their own, special way. I say, let's track down a copy of Bubsy 3D for MassRafTer's next project, who's with me? As I was playing M&Ms Shell Shocked I briefly considered this or Superman 64. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 23:46
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MassRafTer posted:It's amazing how much it crops up in different ways. I don't really think we should be saying "yeah timing is kind of hard when you have branching paths" because some of the more recent games have pretty good timing. That's not even really a factor, even if this were just "Pretty Hallways: The Game: Kingdom Hearts II Again" the timing would still be terrible. Literally what it is, is that there was, as just about everyone should know by now, zero playtesting and QA because they rushed it out the door for the 15th Anniversary release mumbo jumbo.
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Aug 13, 2014 01:47
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Yeah this game recieved literally zero playtesting; I wouldn't be surprised if the first people to ever play some parts of some levels were in fact the first people to buy the game. Large chunks of the game were clearly just never playtested even once which is why basic poo poo like the paths you can take through the levels do not line up or my personal favorite; Sonic's 'flying through the air' animation being uh... not right...
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Aug 13, 2014 01:51
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anilEhilated posted:Eh, I can get the love for 2D Sonics. What I don't understand was how the idea of putting an absurd cartoon animal into "serious" storylines didn't immediately strike anyone out as completely idiotic. Well, until this game finally broke it to everyone, anyway. What are you talking about, Sonic Underground had already shown how wonderfully Sonic in a serious storyline could work!
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Aug 13, 2014 02:34
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Neruz posted:Sonic's 'flying through the air' animation being uh... not right... My favorite part about the development process for this game is that when you go back and look at like beta footage and poo poo, there's a lot of stuff that actually looks more finished than the final release, but it evidently broke the game too hard in important spots so they just went "gently caress it! Goodbye!"
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Aug 13, 2014 02:47
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Dr. Buttass posted:I don't really think we should be saying "yeah timing is kind of hard when you have branching paths" because some of the more recent games have pretty good timing. That's not even really a factor, even if this were just "Pretty Hallways: The Game: Kingdom Hearts II Again" the timing would still be terrible. Literally what it is, is that there was, as just about everyone should know by now, zero playtesting and QA because they rushed it out the door for the 15th Anniversary release mumbo jumbo. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this game at all. I just remember one of the big thing's Simon likes in platformers is being able to continually move without stopping, bouncing from enemy to enemy for example. Given the huge differences between Sonic 06 and previous 3D Sonics my expectations just wouldn't be that high. It's just amazing how far it goes in the opposite direction, just frustrating you every time you get some momentum going. In areas where you need to hit dash pads on walls it's awkward to control and they are difficult to see. In areas where there are obstacles after enemies you just know the obstacle will obstruct you if you rush forward. If there is a shortcut the camera may gently caress you over because it doesn't expect you to go that way. In the end nothing more needs to be said than this: one of Silver's "required" powerups makes him less powerful than if you just skip it. Dr. Buttass posted:My favorite part about the development process for this game is that when you go back and look at like beta footage and poo poo, there's a lot of stuff that actually looks more finished than the final release, but it evidently broke the game too hard in important spots so they just went "gently caress it! Goodbye!" It's obviously not finished but Kingdom Valley looks like it has way more potential in its beta form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GonGJZeu-kA
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Aug 13, 2014 04:17
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MassRafTer posted:It's obviously not finished but Kingdom Valley looks like it has way more potential in its beta form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GonGJZeu-kA Looking back it's rather telling that this game was going to be awful by counting how many times the guy playing ducks up.
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Aug 13, 2014 06:40
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There was a loading screen for the boss dying animation. There was a loading screen for the boss dying animation. The boss is already loaded. The level is already loaded. It's literally loading the boss and camera movement, which are probably less than a megabyte. Why the gently caress didn't they just load with the level? It's like the game is going 'oh poo poo man, I didn't think you'd need this, hang on let me get it for you'. What also gets me is how terrible it looks. I thought it was at least a good looking game, and maybe it was in 2006, but the attempt at photo realism (plus Sonic and other cartoon mutants) has dated terribly. Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast looks more appealing. EvilGenius fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 06:54
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We had a loading screen for a single dialogue box do you really think a boss animation doesn't merit a loading screen?
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Aug 13, 2014 07:07
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EvilGenius posted:What also gets me is how terrible it looks. I thought it was at least a good looking game, and maybe it was in 2006, but the attempt at photo realism (plus Sonic and other cartoon mutants) has dated terribly. Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast looks more appealing. I got all sorts of reasons why I think Kingdom Valley should have been the Sonic '06 stage in Generations but if I'm being perfectly honest this is as big a reason as any; I just thought that one was the best of a not-really-stellar bunch. It's certainly the only stage whose aesthetic hasn't been done better in other Sonic games. Well, that's not totally true. You don't normally get Shadow Moses Island in Sonic games either.
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Aug 13, 2014 07:21
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I've never actually played this game, but I've seen it played on a number of occasions, so to me it's kind of baffling that it's as unplayable as it is. It looks sound on the surface of it, if you never witness it in motion, with a real player struggling with it. If you'd showed me a bunch of screenshots in 2006 and asked me if this looked like a good game, I'd probably have said yeah that looks all right. Even the graphics aren't horrible for the era (though there is way too much havoking going on for no reason). But you can just tell from the way people flail around that the controls are complete rear end and that the game doesn't flow well, being full of bizarrely long loading screen and awkward level design. And then there's the conga line of just outright awful design choices that no human being could ever have tested before this made it out the door. The Silver boss fight is idiotic and unfun even if you manage to avoid getting stuck in an infinite telekinesis loop. The mach speed sections are a good idea in theory but they just look completely unplayable most of the time and kill you in stupid ways over and over while Sonic spazzes out.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:09
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If anyone was worried this run would be too skilled, trying to play Silver levels normally led to me getting horribly lost when I wasn't able to glitch through the sky and dying in a confused state. This is truly how Silver must be experienced.
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Aug 13, 2014 09:31
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You know, recently I played a bit of Shadow the Hedgehog because I felt inspired to play some nonsense again. And actually? It's also loving bad! The thing is, Shadow (the game) is not nearly as glitchy as Sonic (the game), but it is very clearly plagued by the exact same problems. Levels which are clearly designed with the idea of flow in mind just inexplicably force you to stop and devote time to deplete bloated health bars, there are stupid gimmicks everywhere which add nothing but tedium and frustration (because they too often just barely work), the camera and homing attack are complete trash and in general, there is just a complete failure on the designers' side to understand the concept of fun. "Killing all the enemies of a certain type in the entire level" levels of unfun (for at least half the levels, mind). What I'm saying is that up until half of Unleashed and Colours, Sonic Team has just been inept as game designers. All the excuses - okay for its time, bogged down mostly by a terrible story, rushed and unfinished, whatever - don't really matter. The level design is poo poo, and everything else just drags it down more.
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Aug 13, 2014 09:58
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Simply Simon posted:What I'm saying is that up until half of Unleashed and Colours, Sonic Team has just been inept as game designers. All the excuses - okay for its time, bogged down mostly by a terrible story, rushed and unfinished, whatever - don't really matter. The level design is poo poo, and everything else just drags it down more. The storybook games on the Wii had good flow to them, I thought. I've been meaning to write something up for awhile about how Sonic Generations feels like what Sonic Team wanted Sonic '06 to be all along, and all the games between them were them slowly honing in on that formula. I'll probably write it at some point.
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Aug 13, 2014 11:06
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MassRafTer posted:Edit: A question for everyone, would shorter ~15 minute videos like these be better, or would slightly less frequent 20-30 minute videos work better? On one hand these short videos have like 5 minutes of gameplay, on the other a longer video may have upwards of 15 minutes of loading. Short bursts of crap seem more palatable to me. I think you should put the loading screens in their own special bonus videos.
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Aug 13, 2014 13:13
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MassRafTer posted:Edit: A question for everyone, would shorter ~15 minute videos like these be better, or would slightly less frequent 20-30 minute videos work better? On one hand these short videos have like 5 minutes of gameplay, on the other a longer video may have upwards of 15 minutes of loading. Short bursts of crap seem more palatable to me. I'd prefer longer videos.
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Aug 13, 2014 15:18
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Bonus video time, let's see what happens when you kind of ignore Dusty Desert is a level and pretend it is an Anakin Skywalker nightmare factory. (Dated jokes ahoy!) Stay tuned until the end for a really annoying glitch that kept loving up my run. Dusty Desert Speed Run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1sL34wRr-s
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Aug 13, 2014 21:15
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Edit: Hey it's there now.
MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 22:17
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MassRafTer posted:This is really weird, I added a post with the new bonus video and it doesn't appear, although the Last Post indicator says I posted it. If this ends up as a double post my apologies, I'm guessing it is related to the forum down time. Appears fine to me. Two posts with the same link.
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Aug 13, 2014 22:21
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Don't worry about forum glitches.
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Aug 13, 2014 22:30
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Speaking of glitches... I wanted to get some extra Silver footage recorded since I knew I wouldn't have a chance for a few days and encountered a glitch I've never seen before. You can play the last section of Crisis City as Blaze instead of Silver if you do a jump around the area that triggers the switch, and when I landed, this happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lab9DDuP9oU I was so mad at first because I was out of lives and had landed the stupid trick, but then I couldn't stop laughing. What the hell Sonic 06?
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Aug 14, 2014 08:33
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MassRafTer posted:Speaking of glitches... That may be the first time I've ever gotten motion sickness from a video game.  However, this is clearly an Easter egg meant as a tribute to Taz from Looney Toons, and not at all a glitch in this perfect masterpiece of a game. 
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Aug 14, 2014 08:44
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MassRafTer posted:Speaking of glitches... I didn't realize Kevin Dunn worked on Sonic 06.
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Aug 14, 2014 18:30
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Dimebags Brain posted:I didn't realize Kevin Dunn worked on Sonic 06. Given how often the camera misses the action or fucks with you in Silver's story this is very accurate.
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Aug 14, 2014 20:56
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 Update time: Let's travel to the far off future as Hulkamatt is exposed to what an annoying dork Silver the Hedgehog is. As dumb as Sonic's story is, Silver somehow manages to have an even worse plotline. Thrill as we do battle with fire graboids, fire lizards, fire birds and have buildings dropped on us. Also feel free to give any opinions you might have on the topic of Sonic belonging in jail. Part 4 (Silver's Crisis City + Iblis}: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uMkNridgSE
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Aug 15, 2014 08:55
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He's a doofus.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:41
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It's a shame that Psi Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy did being a dude with psychic powers way better back in 2004!
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Aug 15, 2014 17:00
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:
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Aug 15, 2014 17:23
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:
I like the idea of Silver's gameplay, I like how it works some of the time, but when objects get stuck on buildings or won't go where you want them to go it's so frustrating. The lack of speed does mean you'll get hosed over by bad design less frequently, which is nice.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:40
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There will probably be lots of bonus videos for Silver because I think pretty much everything you can do with Silver is hilarious. Here's how you make Crisis City fun. Also fire tornado questions answered. Bonus Video 4: (Silver Crisis City Speedrun and Glitches) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPZSUP43dk
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Aug 16, 2014 08:27
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frozentreasure posted:That's not really the plot, though. The plot is "If you ever shed a single tear, even once, for the rest of your life, all of space and time will be destroyed." Elise gets hay fever, world destroyed.
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Aug 16, 2014 09:52
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:
If I had to give anyone the incredibly nebulous award of "best gameplay in sonic 2006" it would be shadow, his controls don't have any of the major gently caress ups the other two idiots have and his levels tend to work the way the game expects them to most of the time instead of just freaking out constantly and killing you. this is major pyrrhic victory though, since this also means you actually have to play sonic 2006 legitimately, as he doesn't really have anything that lets him sequence break/jump hella high over stuff
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Aug 16, 2014 10:11
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That floating orb thing blew my mind. Well not really since it's Sonic 06 but it's probably the best thing this game has offered me, ever.
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Aug 16, 2014 13:17
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darealkooky posted:If I had to give anyone the incredibly nebulous award of "best gameplay in sonic 2006" it would be shadow, his controls don't have any of the major gently caress ups the other two idiots have and his levels tend to work the way the game expects them to most of the time instead of just freaking out constantly and killing you. Train.
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Aug 16, 2014 13:37
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anilEhilated posted:Train. I once got stuck on an incoming train and it killed me by commuting Shadow off the map. :/
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Aug 16, 2014 13:46
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