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Ali Alkali posted:Sverigedemokraterna definitely has their roots in the countryside of Sweden, most famously in the agrarian parts of Scania but also in former industrialized, now abandoned small municipality's all over the country. Usually those places least affected by immigration the last hundred years. This is just plain wrong. Examples: Almgården in Malmö has 40% SD, and they are right next to the most notorious immigrant area in Sweden, Rosengård. SD got 24% in Landskrona in 2006 when it was known as Skånes Chicago and S was ruling. Mainly due to Kosovo-Albanians. A interesting case is Sorsele that in the 2009 EU election got 1.24% SD and in this years election 13.4%. This is in the Västerbotten and in the middle of nowhere. Given the current rates of immigration we are stuffing immigrants in all empty places and Sorsele got a large contigent of Somalis. You can't really say that Sorsele got 10 times as many racists in 5 years. Anosmoman posted:If limiting immigration is an important issue to a lot of Swedes it might be sensible to give them an alternative to actual nazis to vote for. And this is the actual problem and the reason why SD is going well. They are the only major party opposing increased immigration, which actually 49% of the Swedish population agrees with according to SOM. There is no party, besides SD advocating responsible immigration and the whole debate is locked down because no one wants to favour SD. Meanwhile we are taking in as many immigrants as during the Balkan war. The costs of immigration are getting high enough that no party will be able to finance any major reforms and we are among the worst countries in EU when it comes to integration. Pimpmust posted:Agreed, we should deport Bert Karlsson (ironically the guy that started up the previous version of our current xenophobic populist party; Ny Demokrati). We should deport Bert Karlsson for a number of issues, including his music business career. Funny fact, he is making massive profits by buying up castles and old hotels and renting them for high rates to Migrationsverket. Another case where private contractors make money out of tax payers money. Pimpmust posted:As for the Arbetsförmedling, my point was that they should use the money to reinforce and fix that department rather than outsourcing it for even more money. Arbetsförmedling have been a kind of joke during the last 20 years regardless of the ruling coalition. Both sides have fed it with money with little to show for it. Jim Bont posted:Also what's going to happen to Reinfeldt if the right wing loses, will he stay/who's likely to replace him? He is hosed for sure. Likely candidate is Anna Kinberg-Batra, whose husband is a Swedish-Indian comedian. Mostly known for calling people outside of Stockholm idiots. Regardless, there will be a massive debate within M after the election since they are losing a lot of their core voters to SD, due to Ms mismanagement of the defence and the immgration agreement with MP. Cardiac fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 08:43
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Cardiac posted:The costs of immigration are getting high enough that no party will be able to finance any major reforms and we are among the worst countries in EU when it comes to integration. Do you have any source for these amazingly high costs of immigration that you keep claiming are such a problem? Because I'm pretty sure it's a myth. Financing a Swedish-born kid's child support, education, healthcare, etc etc until they start paying taxes is almost certainly more expensive than just teaching some Syrian Swedish and letting him run a pizza place, even if he fiddles with his tax reports. Of course, I agree that the integration is a complete failure and so is the SFI program (Svenska för invandrare, teaching Swedish to immigrants) so there are definitely reasons to ramp down on immigration until we've fixed these problems, but I don't think "it costs us tax money" is one of them.
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Aug 14, 2014 14:54
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Cardiac posted:Libertarians in Sweden wants minimal taxes, a nightwatch state, no government surveillance, free drugs and to download copyrighted stuff without fear of punishment. That an odd thing for a libertarian party to demand. 
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Aug 14, 2014 15:05
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TheFluff posted:Do you have any source for these amazingly high costs of immigration that you keep claiming are such a problem? http://www.svd.se/opinion/ledarsidan/migrationsverket-behover-48-miljarder-till_3820506.svd http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=5934772&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter And as I am sure you are aware of, they have already this year added 3 billion to support Migrationsverket. TheFluff posted:Because I'm pretty sure it's a myth. Financing a Swedish-born kid's child support, education, healthcare, etc etc until they start paying taxes is almost certainly more expensive than just teaching some Syrian Swedish and letting him run a pizza place, even if he fiddles with his tax reports. Employment among foreignborn is 58%, Swedishborn 82%. Employment needs to be 72% to not be a burden for society. After 7 years 50% of the immigrants have a job. TheFluff posted:Of course, I agree that the integration is a complete failure and so is the SFI program (Svenska för invandrare, teaching Swedish to immigrants) so there are definitely reasons to ramp down on immigration until we've fixed these problems, but I don't think "it costs us tax money" is one of them. Yeah, integration is a mess in many ways and with lower volumes we should be able to more succesfully integrate immigrants. The jugoslavians from the 90s have been rather succesfully integrated.
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Aug 14, 2014 15:11
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Cardiac posted:http://www.svd.se/opinion/ledarsidan/migrationsverket-behover-48-miljarder-till_3820506.svd Cardiac posted:Employment among foreignborn is 58%, Swedishborn 82%. Employment needs to be 72% to not be a burden for society. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 15:52
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Lawman 0 posted:That an odd thing for a libertarian party to demand. Swedish libertarians are also incredibly upset about "municipal oppression" (read: zoning regulations), being prohibited from killing some massively endangered wolves (~200 left in the entire country) when they kill a sheep, and feminists pointing out that white men just might be a bit privileged. I base these observations on reading http://cornucopia.cornubot.se/ which is pretty consistently hilarious. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 15:55
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Cornucopia, voice of (wealthy white male) ~reason~
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Aug 14, 2014 16:05
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TheFluff posted:Do you have any source for these amazingly high costs of immigration that you keep claiming are such a problem? Because I'm pretty sure it's a myth. Financing a Swedish-born kid's child support, education, healthcare, etc etc until they start paying taxes is almost certainly more expensive than just teaching some Syrian Swedish and letting him run a pizza place, even if he fiddles with his tax reports. You really can't expect someone to flee a civil war, leaving their entire social network and all earthly belongings behind, and just step into an alien society and start producing while their family at home is being bombed. I'm sure some can but honestly I would expect most to suffer from some form of depression and PTSD. Part of the problem has been that we haven't realized just how severe some of these problems are and have failed to properly address them so it became a multi-generational issue. We need to be much more pro-active throughout the whole process but of course that require resources - and the political will.
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Aug 14, 2014 16:06
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Also in today's news, the prodigal daughter of social democracy has returned: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=5937921 After spending so many years playing hard-to-get in Brussels I kinda wonder what's she's up to now.
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Aug 14, 2014 16:37
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TheFluff posted:Swedish libertarians are also incredibly upset about "municipal oppression" (read: zoning regulations), being prohibited from killing some massively endangered wolves (~200 left in the entire country) when they kill a sheep, and feminists pointing out that white men just might be a bit privileged. I base these observations on reading http://cornucopia.cornubot.se/ which is pretty consistently hilarious. Please tell me that they want some fancy rifles to kill those darn  Edit: Also is the tax rate in Sweden still as high as it is often portrayed? Lawman 0 fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 16:44
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Lawman 0 posted:Please tell me that they want some fancy rifles to kill those darn It's not as high as it used to be, lots of various deductions and the social network account for a lot (free healthcare, a yearly fund for dental care and mostly free education): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates Sweden Corporate: 22% Individual (min): 28.89% Individual (max): 57% Payroll: 31.42% VAT: 25% (most things) or 12% or 6% on VAT: quote:There is a reduced rate of 12 percent for certain goods and services, including: And some further exemptions entirely. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 16:56
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TheFluff posted:being prohibited from killing some massively endangered wolves (~200 left in the entire country) Oh Jesus, is the wolf thing an issue in Sweden too? WORST ISSUE IN NORDIC POLITICS
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Aug 14, 2014 16:58
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Stefu posted:Oh Jesus, is the wolf thing an issue in Sweden too? WORST ISSUE IN NORDIC POLITICS It sure is! It's one of the major reasons as to why people in rural areas who would otherwise seem to be concerned about environmental issues really hate the greens. You get the weirdest arguments about it too; the aforementioned libertarian blog argued that the wolf isn't endangered on a global level so obviously you should be allowed to shoot them here. Just keep them out of my backyard!
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Aug 14, 2014 17:15
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Apparently just this week some people from Skåne (the south) were denied to shoot a wolf that have been wandering down there, and they were angry about it. Of course, as a Stockholm suburbanite, they are more directly affected, but come on, we can't just keep killing animals for doing what they do. What's up with the inbreeding stuff about the nordic wolves? Wasn't that a thing a while back, that we should shoot 'em all cause they were genetically hosed anyway? Also, libertarians and downloading stuff; this is the country that developed the pirate bay, spotify etc, we love our free internet downloading, we really do!
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Aug 15, 2014 08:59
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Seems like there could be some kind of middle path that could leave both sides unhappy but at least grudingly accepting of a solution. But it's gotten so infected what with the "loving retard inbred hick fucks" and "goddamn inner city cunts who wouldn't know nature if a wolf ate them" type of rhethoric inflaming the issue. Then with crazy groups that drive smear and hate campaigns against individual people on the net, posting their names and pictures and encouraging vandalism or violence.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:11
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TheFluff posted:It sure is! It's one of the major reasons as to why people in rural areas who would otherwise seem to be concerned about environmental issues really hate the greens. A perennial conspiracy you get in Finland is that greens are actually TOURING SOUTHERN FINLAND COUNTRYSIDE IN BLACK VANS just so they can drop off FERAL KILLER WOLVES to scare the peasants.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:13
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TheFluff posted:Also in today's news, the prodigal daughter of social democracy has returned: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=5937921 She was minister for 4 years in total and got sacked/kicked out by Göran Persson because she started to become popular. She really haven't made much of an impression on Swedish politics. But hey, I guess she will be foreign minister, since Eliasson is occupied in UN. Regardless, S desperatly needs people used to governing, 8 years away from power have drained the party of many old ministers. Anosmoman posted:You really can't expect someone to flee a civil war, leaving their entire social network and all earthly belongings behind, and just step into an alien society and start producing while their family at home is being bombed. I'm sure some can but honestly I would expect most to suffer from some form of depression and PTSD. You are Danish, right? At least you have a working debate on these issues, even if you have the crazies in Danske Folkeparti. The whole immigration/integration debate in Sweden is completly locked down because no one wants to give SD any form of legitimacy. The rascist card and Godwin is used heavily to suppress any debate. Meanwhile they are carefully avoiding issues like islamic extremism (that seems to be loosening up thankfully), mutilation and forced marriages of young women and analfabetism, which are legit issues that we need to handle and discuss in order to integrate immigrants into Swedish society. TheFluff posted:You know that a majority of those costs will be constant regardless of how many people we actually let in, right? They're not caused by paying for those mythical welfare queens (because once they're in, they're not Migrationsverket's business anymore), they're mostly for taking care of the arrivals while handling their due process and telling them that sorry, nope, you're gonna have to go back. The costs are more associated with how messy the wars in the middle east are at the moment than anything else. I am saying that the costs are rising, but I was surprised by 48 billion. From Migrationsverkets earlier report this year I saw the figure ~20 billion in increased costs for the coming 4 years. To put this into perspective, the "big" reforms different parties are proposing at the moment have sofar been on the order of 1 billion. The government have already put in 3 billion so far this year to cover the costs of immigration. You are correct that the figures only covers the cost of handling immigration applications, many of which are rejected, but the costs are increasing and doing it fast. As for the costs after processing, that becames a responsibility of the municipalities, where the state only covers the costs for the first 2 years. After that, the municipalities takes over. Currently it takes 7 years for 50% of the immigrants to get a job. Who is paying for that if not the municipalities? See below for a blog addressing these issues. The question is not whether we should have immigration, which of course we should have, but how many? Migrationsverkets own report says that the main flows of immigration comes from Syria, Eritreia and Somalia, where they first go to Libya, then get on smuggling boats across the Mediterranean and then finally ending up in Sweden, where the main point for entry is Öresundsbron. Tell me, when do you stop being a refuge and start being a economic immigrant? Comparing the distribution of immigrants for the Scandinavian countries (and EU for that matter) shows how many more immigrants Sweden are taking on. TheFluff posted:Employment rates among foreign-born have been on the rise for the last ten years though, and they're rising faster than the employment rates among the native population. This is also a problem we still have to solve regardless of how many or how few people we let in. If you call 58% from 57% a rise?  Taken from this blog https://www.tino.us hosted by a Swedish economist currently located in US. An interesting blog since it covers Swedish immigration, integration as well as private schools and uses official facts, fully referenced in the blog. But I would expect that by someone who has published in PNAS. His Divine Shadow posted:Seems like there could be some kind of middle path that could leave both sides unhappy but at least grudingly accepting of a solution. But it's gotten so infected what with the "loving retard inbred hick fucks" and "goddamn inner city cunts who wouldn't know nature if a wolf ate them" type of rhethoric inflaming the issue. A legitimate concern for people living in areas with wolves is whether you feel safe letting your children play in the garden. A number of family dogs as well as other livestock have been killed by wolves. Wolves are predators and there is a reason why wolves in zoos are heavily locked in. As example, the wolves in Skånes Djurpark got loose in the park and killed some animals, and they ended up shooting all of them.
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Aug 15, 2014 10:00
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Posting to confirm that at least the youth wing of Centerpartiet, CUF, in Stockholm are a bunch of Randian shitheads. A few of my friends have "seen the light" of blind faith in the market and developed a wish to dismantle the state entirely. From what I've been told, it is quite the circle jerk. I am still undecided about how to vote in September - I'm guessing the fact that I went with the alliance last time around puts me in a minority here.
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Aug 15, 2014 10:23
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Stefu posted:A perennial conspiracy you get in Finland is that greens are actually TOURING SOUTHERN FINLAND COUNTRYSIDE IN BLACK VANS just so they can drop off FERAL KILLER WOLVES to scare the peasants. A feral wolf sounds especially wild.
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Aug 15, 2014 10:59
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I voted Alliance in 06 and 10, prior to that S and this year I'm not sure yet, except that it will be non-alliance. I kinda want V to have a strong voice, but not strong enough to force the profits in privatization, as it would most likely cause one hell of a mess. I'm in the "regulate and oversee so god drat much that anyone not being genuinely interested in running an A+ service won't be bothered" camp, which I'm not sure that anyone is in, as everyone is talking about it, but no one seems to really know if they really want it, except SD, as they just talk about immigration. Regarding immigration, I've been around a lot of immigrants since I was 13 years old in school, work and private life, and I'm definitely pro-immigration. It's a shame that most talk about immigration leads to Godwin, as previously mentioned. I understand that the established parties don't want to give SD legitimacy, but we need to talk about improving the immigration system, on account of all the numbers you guys have posted. The debate is loving silly, at times, where some left wing thinkers get furious when a white male writes as an anti-racist person, as "they can't possibly know what they are talking about" and similar stuff, can't remember the names of the crazies that have this opinion. I also have my own theory about a lot of SD voters are not racists, but they are globalization victims, either real, perceived by themselves, others or something in between. Are not a lot of SD voters old "gråsossar" that used to work in the industry, and now they do not. They make the connection that 20-30 years ago, life was good, and there were very few immigrants, now life is bad, and there are a lot of immigrants. Therefore immigrants=bad. Others, like people in my immediate family, see schools that are pure chaos, with a lot of immigrant children in 'em, and draw conclusions from that. And ofc, some are just plain old racists. The party SD seems to be mostly full on racists, some hiding it better than others, but their voters are a mixed bunch, but they all seem to be treated the same, by the media and the left.
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Aug 15, 2014 11:01
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Cardiac posted:She was minister for 4 years in total and got sacked/kicked out by Göran Persson because she started to become popular. She really haven't made much of an impression on Swedish politics. But hey, I guess she will be foreign minister, since Eliasson is occupied in UN. Regardless, S desperatly needs people used to governing, 8 years away from power have drained the party of many old ministers. Cardiac posted:Meanwhile they are carefully avoiding issues like islamic extremism (that seems to be loosening up thankfully), mutilation and forced marriages of young women and analfabetism, which are legit issues that we need to handle and discuss in order to integrate immigrants into Swedish society. Cardiac posted:As for the costs after processing, that becames a responsibility of the municipalities, where the state only covers the costs for the first 2 years. After that, the municipalities takes over. Currently it takes 7 years for 50% of the immigrants to get a job. Who is paying for that if not the municipalities?  Which shows that, for example, out of the people who arrived in 2006, 42% had a job after 5 years, while among the people who arrived in 2007 only 33% had a job after 5 years. I maintain though that you seem to want to treat the symptoms rather than the cause of the disease. The problem isn't that we have too many immigrants draining tax money, the problem is that we are unable to give a large number of these people a reasonable way to enter our society, and that's a problem we need to solve regardless of how many people we let in. Cardiac posted:The question is not whether we should have immigration, which of course we should have, but how many? Cardiac posted:If you call 58% from 57% a rise? Cardiac posted:A legitimate concern for people living in areas with wolves is whether you feel safe letting your children play in the garden. A number of family dogs as well as other livestock have been killed by wolves. I can understand livestock (particularly sheep) owners being concerned for purely economical reasons since wolves do kill sheep fairly regularly, but that's a problem that's better solved with things like insurance or maybe a state compensation than by hunting a naturally occurring species to extinction. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 17:56
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I'd tkae that 48 billion number with a pinch of salt, every department has a reason to inflate their budgetary needs (and even coupled with a nicely not-so-subtle threat too in this case). Besides, that is money that doesn't really leave the country and acts as a sort of state support for the economy by keeping a lot of people employed and busy (a whole lot of not-super well-paid social workers and teachers for one). Probably more efficient than say, giving the Banks a QE injection, even if I'd prefer it if Bert Karlsson didn't get a cut.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:19
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nagel posted:I also have my own theory about a lot of SD voters are not racists, but they are globalization victims, either real, perceived by themselves, others or something in between. Are not a lot of SD voters old "gråsossar" that used to work in the industry, and now they do not. They make the connection that 20-30 years ago, life was good, and there were very few immigrants, now life is bad, and there are a lot of immigrants. Therefore immigrants=bad. I agree with this analysis, mostly. I have one thing to add though: My main problem with Swedish public debate today is that everyone (except possibly some fringe elements in (v) and (mp)) is so completely caught up in the myth of the golden age of the welfare state. The idea goes that as long as our industry is productive and competitive and we have high employment, we can get our magical kingdom of rainbows and unicorns back, so we can't afford immigrants (because they cost money, you see) and things like environmental concerns (because China doesn't care about the environment, so we can't afford to either, in the name of competitiveness on the global market). (s) and (m) and (sd) are all adherents of this basic line of thinking, and you see it in their rhetoric. Everything's about creating jobs, no matter if it's flipping burgers or telemarketing, and making things easier for small business owners since those are supposed to drive the economy or something. The differences are just in who they blame for things not working out; (m) blames taxes and socialists, (sd) blames immigrants and the EU, and (s) blames everyone else for ruining what they think they once built. This has gone on for so long that the original goals of the welfare state have kinda been forgotten and now the entire thing is just some kind of cargo cult. In my opinion this is a completely rear end-backwards way of formulating public policy. I don't think infinite economic growth is possible, I don't believe that "producing" telemarketing is good for society in any way, I think formulating every problem in economical terms is a terrible idea and I think we have some rather pressing environmental concerns to take care of if we want our society to survive the next few decades. But of course, nobody listens to me, they just keep chasing unicorns and think that if we just manage to get more people working/kick out the immigrants/finance some huge infrastructure projects to keep people busy we can have a new golden age and then we can start thinking about the environment and other secondary concerns. (v) and (mp) at least used to talk a little bit about the limits of economic growth a few years back, but these days they seem to have toned that down because apparently that's not what the voters want to hear. I'll probably vote (v) anyway but I dunno what good it'll make. I know Sjöstedt claims he'll play hardball with (s), but I really dunno how far you can trust that. Löfven is most definitely a "betongsosse" of the old school who believes that economic growth will solve everything. edit: on a completely different topic, look at this gentleman:  look at him guess which party he represents? (c), of course: http://www.svt.se/nyheter/val2014/guide/kandidat/56694-patrik_andersson "favorite sport: segway polo" TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 18:44
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I can't be the only one who misread the title as 'erection edition'.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:49
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Cardiac posted:The whole immigration/integration debate in Sweden is completly locked down because no one wants to give SD any form of legitimacy. The rascist card and Godwin is used heavily to suppress any debate. Personally a huge problem is to take the debate with SD is to legitimize their view of the world, and only serves normalize their racist and xenophobic ideas. In my opnion there are legitimate issues within the immigration that needs to be dealt with, but none so big that it trumps all other issues. Thus it's silly to have a party solely based on that issue, unless you have another reason (because of course they do ). There shouldn't be a party just about immigration just as much as there should be a party against graffiti or road construction, must as these are "important issues that cost tax-payers money" as well.Most of SD's success stems from playing on people's inherent xenophobia and racism in a time of economic uncertainty, not because immigrants suddenly became to costly. nagel posted:I also have my own theory about a lot of SD voters are not racists... What's not hard to speculate about is that SD politicians themselves are terrible racists! SD politician has bought an AK47 and explosive belt to protect themselves from blacks [url="https://"http://www.interasistmen.se/granskning/riksdagsledamot-hyllar-nazistiska-svps-aktioner-det-ar-mycket-bra/"] MP praises Nazi SVP's actions - "It is very good" [/url] [url="https://"http://www.interasistmen.se/granskning/sd-kandidat-vi-behover-starta-motstandskriget-nu/"] SD candidate: "WE NEED TO START THE RESISTANCE WAR NOW !!!" [/url] Sorry but i just needed to clear the air a bit. Have had to many colleagues saying something similar too"Well... SD has a poooooint"...
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Aug 15, 2014 19:31
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Yeah I hope I was clear about an absolute majority of their politicians being horrible racists. They all also seem to be so incredibly incompetent, it's baffling. Like their two members of the EP, in the debates they seemed to know nothing about nothing, and a willingness of around zero, to change that. They talk about these horrible immigrants, doing crime and stealing jobs, while it's SD that are committing crimes, like that dude that spent the 90's cracking safes. They are hypocritical, simplifying, incompetent and demonizing. Didn't MP mention growth criticism in Almedalen or something like that? But it was kinda glossed over. I'm extremely interested in it, and like you say, jobs and growth seem to be the end goal of civilization. They still kind of talk about it in terms of reduced hours. I'm not a guru of international finance and economics, although I know some, and I feel like we should be able to drastically cut worked hours/person, and still be able to feed, clothe and put roofs over our heads. This goes for the entire world, not just Sweden. I have this idea of introducing 6 hours/day in caregiving professions, nurses, doctors, old folks home staff etc. They work really hard, and they break well before Reinfeldt wants you to retire, why not cut their hours, hire 2 people working 6 hours instead of 1 dude working 9. People won't wear down as easily, lowering health care costs long term, as well as giving better care to those that are sick. You can work until you are 65, perhaps, if you worked 30 instead of 40 hours per week. This could be introduced in other sectors, like teaching, but it seems like it would be best utilized in health care. I kinda feel like the lack of leisure time is partly responsible for our desire to buy new stuff. As our free time is precious and we don't have a lot of it. The quickest way to enjoy it is to buy stuff. And as you said, TheFluff, telemarketers does not add anything of real value to society, it's just an unfortunate side effect of our capitalistic growth-at-all-costs system. There are of course more professions that are completely unnecessary. 6/30 hours is of course totally arbitrary.
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Aug 18, 2014 00:28
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Cardiac posted:The question is not whether we should have immigration, which of course we should have, but how many? You don't get residence permit in Sweden simply as an "economic immigrant", as you call it. And an application for a residence permit is not granted if you previously have been staying in another EU country according to the Dublin Act. It is not the revolving door you seem to think it is. Svartvit fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 01:28
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nagel posted:Yeah I hope I was clear about an absolute majority of their politicians being horrible racists. They all also seem to be so incredibly incompetent, it's baffling. Like their two members of the EP, in the debates they seemed to know nothing about nothing, and a willingness of around zero, to change that. They talk about these horrible immigrants, doing crime and stealing jobs, while it's SD that are committing crimes, like that dude that spent the 90's cracking safes. They are hypocritical, simplifying, incompetent and demonizing. Vänsterpartiet has brought up the idea of a 6 hour workday this last year. Gothenburg municipality's red-green majority decided in april that they would try it in some of the municipal sectors, preferably elder care, but i haven't heard anything about it since.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:41
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On Sjöstedt: The only thing he has stated is that he will not be part of a cabinet that does not want to stop welfare privatization and ban(tax to hell and back) profits gained in those fields. He has never said he will topple a Social Democratic cabinet he is not a member of. Because that means Reinfeldt gets to stay.
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Aug 18, 2014 12:45
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:On Sjöstedt: The only thing he has stated is that he will not be part of a cabinet that does not want to stop welfare privatization and ban(tax to hell and back) profits gained in those fields. The interesting part is how willing S will be to collaborate with V after the election, because right now they avoid them like they're carrying the plague. Of course, it's not not a huge surprise especially given how the last election turned out.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:37
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You know what time it is? Cake time! http://www.expressen.se/gt/hagglund-attackerad--fick-en-tarta-i-ansiktet/
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Aug 18, 2014 17:41
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Lena Mellin thinks you're an enemy of democracy if you throw a cake on a politician.quote:So far no one has invented a better system of government than parliamentary democracy (edit: fine, ok). It comes on the condition that humans want, and dare to take on political assignments. It also suppose that the voters conduct themselves politely and accept that opinions can be different. [...] Social Democrats get assasinated, liberals and racists gets a cake thrown at them for their ideals. I bet shes the kind who would ask protestors to calm down after being gunned down by cops. I hate that fat cow, she is an extremely superficial and untalented political analyst. Fire her and replace her with Daniel Swedin. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 19:45
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Lena Mellin thinks you're an enemy of democracy if you throw a cake on a politician. I mostly stay away from Aftonbladet and have barely read anything from her, is she usually really crappy? This isn't Lagerlöf or Moberg, but I kinda agree with her. I don't get your comment, "Social Democrats get assasinated, liberals and racists gets a cake thrown at them for their ideals.", Are you saying that it's the same thing, or is she? Where does the murders of Palme and Lindh come into this? Tårtning, to me, is a milder form of intimidation elected officials that seem to be getting more common. I say seem, as I have not seen statistics, and I'm in general skeptical regarding the framing of the media.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:25
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nagel posted:I mostly stay away from Aftonbladet and have barely read anything from her, is she usually really crappy? This isn't Lagerlöf or Moberg, but I kinda agree with her. I don't get your comment, "Social Democrats get assasinated, liberals and racists gets a cake thrown at them for their ideals.", Are you saying that it's the same thing, or is she? Where does the murders of Palme and Lindh come into this? Tårtning, to me, is a milder form of intimidation elected officials that seem to be getting more common. I say seem, as I have not seen statistics, and I'm in general skeptical regarding the framing of the media. It's happened 3 times that i can remember since the king got caked in 2002. And ofcourse it's worse to get assasinated. But if a cake is a tragedy, what is a bullet? And besides she is very shallow in pretty much everything she writes. She has not discussed anything regarding the ever increasing corruption by enterprise or commented on Reinfelds initiative to transform Sweden to a two party state. To get all topical about what makes a democracy run and not whenever someone gets caked is a little lame when the country has been going down the drain for quite some time. And she seems to be the only contributer who behaves like this to top it off. Throwing a cake is more of a way of rediculing a politician anyways. I don't think its particularly appropriate but to call it a phenomena that threatens the democracy is rediculous.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:59
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When Bosse Ringholm got caked back in 2001, DN's op-ed section wrote about how the government should get a sense of humour and a sense of scale when Göran Persson and friends described the act as a threat against democracy. How things change. I do see some worrisome trends in our liberal media (and public service news) to simply things extremely towards a "truth is in the middle" stance. Like how both DN and SVT described planned nazi attacks on a Women's day demonstration in Malmö this year as "conflict between right and leftwing extremists", and DN were quick with an op-ed reminding us that the extreme left are just as dangerous, can't forget that when nazis attack.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:51
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How has the shittiness between the west and Russia as of late affected the support for NATO membership in Sweden? Have right-wing party leaders been openly in favor of it or do they still just dance around the issue?
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Aug 19, 2014 13:42
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Folkpartiet has been making some noise recently, but it's pretty much the same as ever. No giants shifts in public opinion from what I can tell.
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Aug 19, 2014 14:20
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Ryssen kommer  Same as ever is about right.
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Aug 19, 2014 14:43
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uncleTomOfFinland posted:How has the shittiness between the west and Russia as of late affected the support for NATO membership in Sweden? Have right-wing party leaders been openly in favor of it or do they still just dance around the issue? It's never gonna happen without Finland anyway and there is no real public opinion for it. However people do seem to want to reinstate conscription and increase the defense budget. And besides, ours and Finlands NATO viewpoints are to no small degree influenced by how WWII played out in Scandinavia.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:39
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In practice though we're closer to NATO than ever. We're basically as close as you can get to being a member (see for example this blog post) without actually getting the benefits. It's pretty dumb. I like the idea of being neutral but we haven't been so in practice since before WW2, and if we're going to be an obvious NATO member in all but name it's probably better to just join and get it over with. In other news I suspect there's a distinct possibility we might be looking at an alliansen+SD government. I'm scared.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:13
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