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I thought y'all were a communist hell hole under some Palm guy until he got assassinated, now you're ruled by centrists? How'd that happen?
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Aug 11, 2014 23:06
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Time for Israel to flip it's poo poo, act like Apardheit South Africa and recall it's ambassador. Oh, and one of our young right-wing farmer/racist-party fuckwits had a pic on facebook with one of your racist party youth dudes and it caused a minor scandal. Apparently he was here a while back and assaulted a palestinian barkeep, which was sorta embarassin' as he was here as part of some nordic forum or another.
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Nov 1, 2014 01:16
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Xoidanor posted:It's their polite way of saying that it's the first country that actually matters to recognise Palestine.  No, but it is sorta embarrassin for them, I don't really care overmuch about Iceland being overlooked. We did it for Palestine, not for kudos. Tamerlame posted:I found the whole IKEA thing between Avigdor Lieberman and Margot Wallström funny. Are meatballs kosher? I only have the veggie poo poo in Ikea.
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Nov 1, 2014 18:07
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Valiantman posted:I'd say, in a simplified nutshell, that both sides have done so much wrong to each other that I can't even imagine how hard it is to let go of hostility. Who started and why hardly matters anymore. Regarding the walls specifically, Palestinian terrorism is a real security threat to Israel. If they suddenly let Palestinians live and move how they want, Hamas and the likes of it would have a field day of terrorism. They're pretty open about wanting to end Israel as a state and the means with which they want to accomplish it. Then again, by walling up everyone, treating them like prisoners and generally acting like it does, Israel itself is pretty much the best recruiter for the terrorists. A vicious circle. yea, not like hamas has kept a ceasefire before or anything for weeks until betrayed by the israelis or anything like that or how the 'ending the israeli state' thing doesn't mean murdering all israelis, but thanks for that expert loving analysis, do you by any chance read the Jerusalem post? maybe the truth, indeed is somewhere in the middle between the people engaging in imperialism and apartheid and those who sometimes fight back Neeksy posted:The Israeli lobby practically owns the entire US congress and presidency. Have a loving really long article from a reputable news source about this: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/friends-israel edit: Koorisch posted:So for someone who isn't very active in the discussion on Israel vs Palestine, what exactly is hindering them from stopping this retarded conflict and razing those prison walls around Gaza so the people don't have to be treated like they are some kind of sub-humans trapped in a zoo? So there is basically zero domestic pressure to solve anything about it. Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 00:52
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Palestinians (and their Icelandic kids) make up the single largest muslim group in Iceland so while I don't, I know plenty who lived through those times and I've read up on everything from mandate times to modern days, though I'd probs say that understanding the Nakba and 6 Day War is more important than the Yom Kippur war, especially as the discussion is most often about the '67 borders. I just found you overly sympathetic to the Israeli side, which I suppose is unfair. They certainly are victims too, but when one side is victim to its own twisted national ideas and the small bouts of terrorism the Palestinians can muster and the other is remorselessly bombed, starved and almost gleefully oppressed it's hard to try and take their problems seriously, especially when there were barely any good faith negotiations from the Israelis and they don't even pretend to have them post-Rabin. Maybe you haven't seen the 'ending the state of Israel' line trotted out by the hasbara to show how Hamas wants to 'eradicate all Jews because it's in their charter', in order to portray them as murderous and irrational and unwilling to enter the negotiation table as often, because that's where I thought you were going. The current Israeli state is an apartheid state ruled by racist right-wing parties, and just like how ending the Apartheid South African state didn't mean killing all the white people, neither would ending the current state of Israel as an intrinsically Jewish state mean killing all Jewish people. And it matters a lot to the Palestinians that people in the world at large know and acknowledge them and their struggle, if nothing else. That they haven't been forgotten.
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Nov 5, 2014 02:33
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Randarkman posted:Not that we've been posting that much about Scandinavia recently, but maybe, just MAYBE, it's best to keep that whole Israel/Palestine poo poo-fest far away from a thread not about that topic at all, because its gonna end up being closed or gassed or something. Also claiming that I/P has nothing to do with the Nordics when it's something that has always been a big issue in the Nordics and just got more relevant is odd to say the least. The only 2 western nations to recognize Palestine are Nordic and while I can't speak for the rest it's always been one of the bigger foreign policy issues. Atal Vataman posted:I'm also slightly worried that FrP is not bleeding votes due to being too radically conservative/liberal/dickheady, but rather because they are not being radical enough...
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Nov 5, 2014 13:21
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Randarkman posted:You're probably right, but Israel/Palestine always becomes a shitfest anyways and should be discussed apart from other topics, in the same way that its kept out of the general Middle East thread. And out of curiosity, is the Israeli cause even held up high in the rest of the Nordics? I know you got more open racists out there, whereas here they're considered gauché (just another example of us being lil' America) but are the right wing really that supportive of them? Scherloch posted:Most of the people I know who voted H or FrP, when asked why, all seemed to give some variation of "it's time for a change", or "they've been at it for eight years, it's time for someone else to have a go". I guess that makes sense, if Norway was kindergarten and "being in government" was a toy.
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Nov 7, 2014 13:54
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Ligur posted:Oh yeah this is disturbing and IIRC really didn't even exist much say 10 or 15 years ago?! The jews are organizing the collapse of the Western world! All jews are evil and conspire against the white race! Dahhh! Of course, jews have been persecuted since forever, but this is a new strain of persecution that just wasn't there in the 90s. At least I didn't know if it was. I know bloggers or anti-immigration personalities (well, not personally, but read their rants) who used to rave about the horrors of mass immigration amongst other things, and over the years have turned into raving about the forementioned jew conspiracy instead. The difference with the muslims is, if you get your info from the people involved in I/P (which, seeing as Palestinians and their kids are currently the biggest single muslim minority in Iceland), which is the usual point that starts a discussion on Judaism, they're almost all very careful not to equate the actions of Israel with Judaism as a whole, as that's what Israel wants. But outside that core, people sometimes get pretty simple about the Isreali problem, and the only people to support Israel are lunatics or ultra-right wingers, so when someone starts talking that crazy conspiracy bullshit, surprisingly few people seem willing to confront them that are taken seriously.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:08
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Finally an article about Iceland in a real language: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/u...er-7788533.html
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Nov 18, 2014 17:39
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blogo posted:Someone in the Norwegian labor party wants to add an internet tax to support Norwegian film production, it's like they really don't want the younger generation to vote for them. Only Norwegian movie I remember watching (that wasn't Flåklypa Grand Prix) was Kon-Tiki, which uhh, even as an anthropologist, was pretty dang dull. (Liked it though) Ligur posted:You don't really know what a nazi is, do you? You just call everyone you don't like either a nazi or a racist, right?  You're my favourite part of this thread because you remind me that Iceland isn't alone in having terrible, terrible people in it.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:39
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Ligur posted:Poor you. You really thought terrible people only exist in Iceland? Also does anyone actually care for the Icelandic news poo poo I post? I mean, even I find it boring most of the time so I wonder if y'all even want it here. The only funny thing our racists have done recently is saying that asylum seekers shouldn't have any right to privacy. And how that was prompted by the resignation of a minister because of her political assistant leaked an edited memo containing slander to the right-wing media here. Edit: Xoidanor posted:Since when is Finland the utopia of Scandinavia? Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 17:37
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Benito Hitlerstalin posted:Ligur is Finnish, obviously. Ligur posted:How unfortunate. What exactly have I done to make the whole of Iceland so revile me? Dr. Klas posted:No, you wouldn't. Not that I'd mind reading about Estonian politics, but Estonia is not a Nordic country. Nor is Finland a Scandinavian. also why am i the spokesman for iceland in the op goddamn
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Nov 23, 2014 19:45
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Alhazred posted:And now they run the country: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/politikk/--Trodde-ikke-at-Frp-holdt-seg-med-slike-6561761.html (though the popo were loving annoying, almost caught me speeding several times) Xoidanor posted:Shale oil technology is working hard to prove you wrong in the coming years.  Name all these shale oil countries that would benefit from lowering oil prices again?
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Nov 23, 2014 21:35
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murphyslaw posted:I also regularly wish death upon those whose political views differ from my own. Also I made a right-winger in a Norwegian bus angry enough that his girlfriend had to drag him away by, uhh, I think talking about how the vikings were kinda poo poo compared to muslims at the same time and how the Norwegian language was really a modern construct? Still not quite sure what it was exactly, my drunken Norwegian being so loving poo poo or him thinking my swarthy complexion meant I was one of them evil muslims, but he got pretty mad about it! He didn't start talking about the merits of National Socialism, though he did talk about "pure norwegian" so uhhh, something not quite right there.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:57
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murphyslaw posted:
V. Illych L. posted:That was probably the language thing, language is a Big Deal in Norway I never really interacted that much with Norwegians when I was there, how is the language a Big Deal?
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Dec 1, 2014 22:48
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Atal Vataman posted:what you are saying about language is nonsensical though. its what people have been speaking here for hundreds of years and you seem to forget the 500-year long shared history of denmark and norway (it actually goes way further back than 500 years). following your logic, there has been no norwegian language since the end of the kalmar union. nynorsk is a construct in a sense, but it was made as an alternative to the written danish used in norway at the time and to formalize norwegian dialects spoken outside of the cities. Also while all Icelanders have lil linguistic prescriptivist ghost in them, because of our dreadful 'our old rear end language' education, my recollection of drunken conversations which ended in mad dudes was more about the fact that, yea, there some butthurt nationalists out there. norwegian language just inferior icelandic/danish
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Dec 3, 2014 18:54
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Rnr posted:"See, events in the real world proved you wrong, as predicted. Maybe re-evaluate and re-examine the arguments for and against a very lax immigration law in Sweden?" Ligur posted:If "complaining about muslims" is "racist" then you can't really discuss refugee politics without it being "racist" since most of them happen to be muslims you dolt. Also, muslims are not a god drat race. Why hasn't D&D been able to figure this out in 10 years. V. Illych L. posted:i will end you 
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Dec 4, 2014 17:46
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"RACIS!!"
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The problem, Ligur, for those that blame "multiculturalism" is that rarely do they ever suggest that the blame should lie on the policy makers who hosed up and instead decide that since those dastardly foreign types haven't adjusted well enough to their host society the whole "experiment" might as well be scrapped. We're talking about people like Merkel, who was chancellor of a country that did everything it could to make the position of the Turkish guest-workers poo poo to try and get them back out of Germany, then acts appalled that for some reason certain parts of the Turkish minority don't seem to look fondly upon the Germans! Gee golly, whatever could be the root of that. If the people complaining about "multiculturalism" were to present realistic models of integration other than "Force 'em to learn the language and kick out all the ones that ain't working" which uhhh, doesn't solve dick, maybe you could take them more seriously. Point out the problems of the current model (I actually know of several with the Swedish and German models, not so much the rest of Europe) and then present your solution. Also if the camp against multiculturalism wasn't so vehement in also denying the fact that as nations that are doing pretty loving good it is our moral duty to help those nations less fortunate, that would be cool. National FYGM is perhaps less galling when it comes nations that weren't third world shitholes less that 90 years ago but eh. Ligur posted:Like, in the 18th century or the 60s, if you immigrated to country X you were expected to respect the local law, learn the language and make yourself useful, nothing more, nothing less. But since "multiculturalism" became a political thing in the very recent past history, it's the other way around: the receiving country should offer you translated services, has an obligation to subsidize you without asking anything in return, to make adjustments to "tolerate" your religious customs and cultural habits and so on.
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Mar 5, 2015 14:52
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Please substantiate this. Also even if you do integrate, you may not be accepted, especially if you're not phenotypically similar enough or of the wrong religion. Ligur posted:At least in Finland the butt of the accusations on failures in integration (or "multiculturalism" whatever it means, obviously different things for different people) has always been the policy makers. Can't speak of other countries. Ligur posted:At least everyone who is actively outspoken in public or in the politics about these issues readily admit it's completely understandable "foreign types" will arrive in droves if promised lifelong gratuitous benefits and a much higher quality of life and when problems arise the first and foremost party held responsible is the policy makers. (Of course if you read internet forumz or social media comments you will get the evil foreigners -view, but then again, those channels are full of poo poo anyway and should not be used to gauge much about real political opinion or will.) Ligur posted:What is interesting is the fact the American integration model of "learn the language, get a job, respect the law" (and get next to not gratuitous anything) has been a far more superior model to do this "multiculturalism" thing, even managing to get Somalians (who do horrendously everywhere in Europe with any meter) to work, to start businesses and succeed, but nobody around here wants to see or hear about it. It's the absolute opposite of pumping more resources into "multiculturalism" and "integration" - neither of which have helped this far and won't help in the future even if you smack 50% of your national budget on it. 
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Mar 5, 2015 23:39
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You guys exaggerate how bad Ligur is. Honestly, I sorta envy you if he's the worst you have to deal with. As far as I remember, isn't he just a centrist liberal?
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Mar 6, 2015 00:31
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Xoidanor posted:But he's a filthy Soumi! drat them and their strange pagan ways for needlessly complicating my conquest of Scandinavia in CK2. Wiz, Groogy and darknoown or whatshisface don't post here do they?
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Mar 6, 2015 02:19
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