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 Click here for the latest update         With the Fatal Frame series reaching a somewhat reasonable crescendo with all the plot threads coming together in the dreamlike world of Fatal Frame 3, one would assume that the series was one left well enough alone. But with the start of a innovative new system for Nintendo, Tecmo was approached with the idea of making a game that would be perfect for showing off the capabilities of the Wii-mote. And what better series to show off a promising adaptation of the Wii technology than the Project Zero franchise and thus Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen (零〜月蝕の仮面〜, lit. "Zero: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse") was born. Released in July of 2008, Fatal Frame 4 promised a brand new storyline with brand new game play features but keeping true to many of the common themes and story devices that had driven most of the Fatal Frame series up to that point. The story itself follows a number of interconnected plot threads that chronicles the efforts of a number of individuals touched by a fictional cursed island called Rougetsu Island. The player finds themselves progressing through the game out of chronological order and under the control of multiple characters in an effort to find some means to circumvent the inevitable fate of all those that come to the island. In addition to the story, the player is also forced to utilize the Wii-mote motion controls to combat the evil spirits that populate the island and the 'Touch Plus' feature to interact with the environment to heighten the already overly tense situations presented.  Madoka Tsukimori is one of five previously kidnapped girls who ventures back to Rougetsu Island in an effort to find out what's killed her friends and what might invaribly end up killing her.  Misaki Asou is another one of five previously kidnapped girls who prods her friend Madoka into going back to Rougetsu Island in an effort to escape the fate of their two dead friends.  Ruka Minazuki is a former resident of Rougetsu Island who finds herself fated to return after her two friends, Misaki and Madoka, go missing after going to the island.  Choushiro Kirishima is a hunky detective who is way more useful than Kei. Kei is hot garbage. discworld is all I read fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Sep 18, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 07:40
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  Who's ready for another heaping helping of horror? I know I certainly am! Also Disaster will be finished soon, but I still wanted to start this as it'll be a fun mess.
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Aug 12, 2014 07:42
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Oh cool, i've never even seen anything about Fatal Frame 4, should be fun to see if it deserves the reputation it has. So far it doesn't look terrible.
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Aug 12, 2014 09:33
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You've always had a knack for this series. Following this! Embarrassingly excited to do so. The 'reaching' mechanic seems like a strange decision. I assume there's more point to it than a couple of cheap jumps, surely.
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Aug 12, 2014 12:56
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Yesssss! Thank you so much for doing this one.
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Aug 12, 2014 13:36
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Yaaaaaaaa!  Just when it was safe to sleep at night, Fatal Frame 4 appears. Well at least it gives me a chance to talk about the differences in story that this game has compared to the other games, but that will wait to later on.
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Aug 12, 2014 16:11
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Getsuya posted:Yesssss! Thank you so much for doing this one. Also I should have pointed this out before, but as the game was only released in Japan I'm currently playing a language patched version of the game that a fan translated. So it's mostly functional and understandable, but there have been some attempts on my end to fit text on-screen properly and to make sure everything is more clear....including butchering the pronunciation of as many Japanese words as possible. DumbRodent posted:You've always had a knack for this series. Following this! Embarrassingly excited to do so.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:07
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Oh wicked! This is the only Fatal Frame I never got a chance to play. This'll be cool! Frankly I think the series is way, way more suited to the WiiU gamepad, FF5 is probably on its way.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:33
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Niggurath posted:
Oh dear. I'm... not sure I like that. The idea of a Fatal Frame game using the RE4 camera sounds like it should go off without a hitch- honestly after the previous titles I just blindly assumed this game was pretty great and was sad it never got a release over here- but apparently developers still thought that being a Wii game meant forcing strange motion controls on the player. I kind of dig the idea of having to actually inch your hand towards items- it's a lot like the slow animations for opening doors in earlier titles, which resulted in some pretty alright spooks- but I almost immediately found it... silly. Not tense. Silly. I'm still excited to see what's in store, though.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:51
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Oh awesome! Definitely looking forward to more Fatal Frame. Still, sounds like some strange design decisions have snuck in, though I guess I'm not really surprised given that the system it came out on and time of release. Hopefully I don't recall too much about it; I remember coming across a Youtube LP of the game a few years ago, which left me with a general sense of familiarity while watching you play the prologue chapter.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:23
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Oh! I've been so excited for this one! It's got two of my favorite Japanese voice over artists in it and I haven't seen it all the way through. I'll try to wait to gush over them though.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:40
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Wait Suda 51 was one of the directors for this game. Just this one, not for any of the other Fatal Frame games. I guess that makes sense since it was made by Grasshopper. My interest in this game, which was already pretty much capped off, has now exploded into an endless sea of stars.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:32
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Getsuya posted:Wait Suda 51 was one of the directors for this game. Just this one, not for any of the other Fatal Frame games. I guess that makes sense since it was made by Grasshopper. My interest in this game, which was already pretty much capped off, has now exploded into an endless sea of stars.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:44
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Nice, another Nigguath horror LP. I like Japanese horror games because they have the concept of the helpless protagonist. I find too many western horror games are like, "Here's a zombie, isn't he scary? Now here's a shotgun and 200 rounds, GO KILL THEM ZOMBIES!" Ooooh. Scary. Really looking forward to this.
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Aug 14, 2014 00:18
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Pompitous posted:Nice, another Nigguath horror LP. I like Japanese horror games because they have the concept of the helpless protagonist. I find too many western horror games are like, "Here's a zombie, isn't he scary? Now here's a shotgun and 200 rounds, GO KILL THEM ZOMBIES!" Ooooh. Scary. Really looking forward to this. You could have a fair bit of debate regarding whether Fatal Frame truly has the concept of a helpless protagonist. On the one hand, you typically play a young woman (although if I'm not mistaken, this is also due to a traditional belief in Japan that woman are more spiritually sensitive than men) who moves very slowly, on the other hand you do have a weapon and aren't, in fact, helpless. I suppose it's balanced out by your weapon being a camera (not a traditional weapon by any means, and thus doesn't carry the seem feel of power as, say, a gun or sword), the fact that trying to use it severely limits your situational awareness against enemies that are fond of teleporting and rapid movements, and the fact that optimal use requires holding your attack until your enemy is in the process of attacking you. Really, though, Fatal Frame does do a pretty good job of making you FEEL helpless or in danger, even if you're technically not. The fact that they rely more on unnerving you via environment, sound, and the movements/nature of the ghosts rather than "HOLY poo poo SCREAMING BLOOD GORE AAAAAAAH!" jump scares is definitely in its favor over most other survival "horror" games.
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Aug 15, 2014 15:56
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IthilionTheBrave posted:Really, though, Fatal Frame does do a pretty good job of making you FEEL helpless or in danger, even if you're technically not. The fact that they rely more on unnerving you via environment, sound, and the movements/nature of the ghosts rather than "HOLY poo poo SCREAMING BLOOD GORE AAAAAAAH!" jump scares is definitely in its favor over most other survival "horror" games. I feel like the Fatal Frame series really nails the "Atmospheric Horror" idea better than pretty much any game on the market. It has jump scares, sure, but the real horror is in the fine details. My favorite example is probably the long armed man from Fatal Frame 1 and the well scene. By reading about that particular ghost and its victims you become prepped for the scene. It's a big setup and it builds tension hard.
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Aug 15, 2014 17:01
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  So in much the same fashion as Fatal Frame 3, Fatal Frame 4 is going to have us controlling multiple characters throughout the course of the game. For our newest chapter we're going to be taking up control of Ruka as she attempts to find out just what happened to her friends Madoka and Misaki after they decided to take an ill-fated return trek to Rougetsu Island. Also as this is the first real chapter we'll start to see more familiar game mechanics from previous Fatal Frame games (such as vanishing ghosts and using our camera to divine hidden clues) and some more new game play aspects (such as the Hozuki dolls and the save point store), and hopefully you guys can share in my confusion as to why the newer game play elements were included at all. Crono S. Magnum posted:I feel like the Fatal Frame series really nails the "Atmospheric Horror" idea better than pretty much any game on the market. It has jump scares, sure, but the real horror is in the fine details. My favorite example is probably the long armed man from Fatal Frame 1 and the well scene. IthilionTheBrave posted:You could have a fair bit of debate regarding whether Fatal Frame truly has the concept of a helpless protagonist. On the one hand, you typically play a young woman (although if I'm not mistaken, this is also due to a traditional belief in Japan that woman are more spiritually sensitive than men) who moves very slowly, on the other hand you do have a weapon and aren't, in fact, helpless. I suppose it's balanced out by your weapon being a camera (not a traditional weapon by any means, and thus doesn't carry the seem feel of power as, say, a gun or sword), the fact that trying to use it severely limits your situational awareness against enemies that are fond of teleporting and rapid movements, and the fact that optimal use requires holding your attack until your enemy is in the process of attacking you. In the end, I personally think the games deal with overall raw emotion and human nature when dealing with forces outside of their control, and I think it does so with mere supernatural forces instead of symbolism. It's just a ghost story in my book, and that's fine with me.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:13
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Maybe I missed something, but.... why 13? I'm not sure how you would know that clue.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:55
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GhostBoy posted:Maybe I missed something, but.... why 13? I'm not sure how you would know that clue.
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Aug 15, 2014 21:03
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IthilionTheBrave posted:You could have a fair bit of debate regarding whether Fatal Frame truly has the concept of a helpless protagonist. On the one hand, you typically play a young woman (although if I'm not mistaken, this is also due to a traditional belief in Japan that woman are more spiritually sensitive than men) who moves very slowly, on the other hand you do have a weapon and aren't, in fact, helpless. I suppose it's balanced out by your weapon being a camera (not a traditional weapon by any means, and thus doesn't carry the seem feel of power as, say, a gun or sword), the fact that trying to use it severely limits your situational awareness against enemies that are fond of teleporting and rapid movements, and the fact that optimal use requires holding your attack until your enemy is in the process of attacking you. Niggurath posted:I think Panzer is probably going to cover this a bit better at some point in this thread, but the reasoning for a female protagonist has changed a bit between Fatal Frame 1-3 and Fatal Frame 4. Yeah, I have a lot of words about gender in the Fatal Frame series and the perceived helplessness of the protagonist, but I feel like I need to do some research on the cultural implications before I start running my mouth. I feel like there could be reasons why both the main protagonist(s) and antagonists are always women outside of the sacrificial interpretation, at least in the first three games. Male characters always seem to gently caress things up or cause problems while the female characters need to be the hero. I am gonna take a minute though to talk about how fuckin' gross the dudes who made FF4 are though. I was looking for any information on the development of the game, since being outsourced to Grasshopper of all places seems super weird, and I came across this Iwata Asks interview. It's with a producer and director from Tecmo who worked on both FF4 and the Wii remake of 2, and it is just depressing as all hell. They start to discuss the interesting implications of gender in the series, which results in this stellar answer right here: quote:Kikuchi: I think that the decision to use female lead characters in the Project Zero series grew naturally from a combination of three factors: their appearance and the mood they convey really suits the story; they work well within the game system where combat takes place using a camera; and they are pleasant for the player to look at. Followed by this lovely conversation about the pre-teen twin protagonists of Fatal Frame 2: quote:Kikuchi: A major theme in Project Zero 2 is the symmetry of having a set of twins as the main characters. But for this Wii version, we have actually made the twin protagonists older than they were in the original version. Bleh. Blehhh  Anyway, other than this interview my search for information on the development of the Fatal Frame games came up pretty dry. Does anyone know of any interviews/post-morts/features on how these games were made?
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Aug 15, 2014 22:03
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I'm a big wuss who finds the scary doll JPGs creepy, but I'm too interested in ghost stories to not watch this. Is Ruka not one of the five kidnapping victims? I assumed she was, but the OP says she was just a local. Also, talking about how they put motion controls in it because it was a Wii game made me realise how utterly, completely perfect the WiiU is for a Fatal Frame game.
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Aug 16, 2014 07:43
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Panzer Skank posted:Bleh. Blehhh Little creepy, actually. And depressing. What does 'it makes sense to be playing as a woman when you're fighting ghost monstrosities with a camera' mean, anyways? Because it doesn't require strength? Because it's a 'delicate' kind of weapon?  V Yeah. It still makes me a bit sad that these are the people apparently in charge of the series now, though. DumbRodent fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 08:23
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Red Bones posted:I'm a big wuss who finds the scary doll JPGs creepy, but I'm too interested in ghost stories to not watch this. Is Ruka not one of the five kidnapping victims? I assumed she was, but the OP says she was just a local. Also the 3DS Fatal Frame kinda shows that good technological advances in systems doesn't mean that a game using said technology is going to be any good....because it was apparently pretty awful. Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLlkAQuGueE DumbRodent posted:'Our protagonists tend to be female because girls are fun for the audience to look at' is not something I wanted to hear from the creators of these games.
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Aug 16, 2014 08:34
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Does the little thing from her necklace that goes to the small of her back annoy the poo poo out of anyone else? I swear I keep having to remind myself there's not a bug on my screen.
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Aug 16, 2014 09:09
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Niggurath posted:I think Panzer is probably going to cover this a bit better at some point in this thread, but the reasoning for a female protagonist has changed a bit between Fatal Frame 1-3 and Fatal Frame 4. In the beginning I think there was just a common idea that young women were pretty much the focus of ritualistic sacrifice and that Fatal Frame was just keeping in line with common place horror themes (at least Japanese horror themes, though there was some intermixing of Western horror themes later) is why there's such a strong focus on a female character. I don't think though that the gender of the main character is meant to infer a weakness on the part of that gender, I think it's more that any character in Fatal Frame is presented with a mostly helpless situation and that there's always an impotent feeling that's left when dealing with the situation. The rituals at best just keep the evils at bay, usually at some dire cost; the deaths always seem to be inevitable and gruesome, leading to an endless torment of repetition and pain; and the 'solution' presented to our protagonist is never really what I'd call a positive one or a permanent one. I feel like I need to clarify that I do not, in any way, endorse a sort of "women are weak/helpless" viewpoint. My reasoning behind that phrasing, which I should have included or clarified on in my post, is more off cultural norms in general and stereotypes.
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Aug 16, 2014 15:20
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DumbRodent posted:It still makes me a bit sad that these are the people apparently in charge of the series now, though. I imagine Gigolo Mode is an inevitability for any future Fatal Frame games. How far you've fallen, Grasshopper.
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Aug 16, 2014 15:26
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Fiendly posted:I imagine Gigolo Mode is an inevitability for any future Fatal Frame games. How far you've fallen, Grasshopper. 
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Aug 16, 2014 20:07
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I normally shy away from survival horror games, but I always feel so secure with Niggurath-senpai guiding my hand.  Is it just me, or is this one already relying on way more jump scares than the first three? That's not to say that 4 isn't genuinely creepy. The first two felt almost like dark fairy-tales, and 3 had the Ringu/Grudge thing going on, but this 4 just seems suffocatingly oppressive. Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 23:51
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Gosh, I remember my first attempt at playing FF/PZ1 nearly a decade ago - a late night sleepover/party game, it is not. Got up to the 3rd night and just went, that's it I'm out. Fast-forward to last year and playing the FF/PZ2 remake on Wii, which was definitely worth the purchase even if I still find it nigh impossible to defeat Sae. Heck, I even used Niggurath's LP of FF2 to 'psyche' myself up for some of the upcoming scares/what to expect when you're expecting (to die of fright). I didn't want to freak out too much, since I was proxy playing for my horror-loving friend as they tended to have whole-of-body reactions to scares (read: drop controller/waste film on empty space/die a lot). Looking forward to seeing this all the way through! Any chance that you may consider doing the FF/PZ2 Wii-make in future?
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Aug 17, 2014 04:07
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Just chipping in that I will be following this as well -- I watched the LPs of earlier games so I'm looking forward to seeing how they've developed this game. I don't think I like the choice to tie the development of the camera to collecting blue and red crystals though, it feels more game-y and less immersive and making it more of an easter egg hunt than it already is.
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Aug 17, 2014 13:48
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I... do actually kind of like that our researcher character actually is the camera professor who has quite possibly saved thousands of souls with his invention.
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Aug 17, 2014 18:15
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So I know normally I just have super long videos so as not to break up the story too much, but with Fatal Frame 4 most of the chapters end up running close to an hour a piece. If you guys want I can usually stick to posting the second part of a chapter a couple of days after the first so there isn't so much of a disconnect with the story, otherwise I'll probably stick to one update a week or so.Flat Banana posted:Just chipping in that I will be following this as well -- I watched the LPs of earlier games so I'm looking forward to seeing how they've developed this game. MonotoneMorgan posted:Looking forward to seeing this all the way through! Any chance that you may consider doing the FF/PZ2 Wii-make in future? Rush_shirt posted:I normally shy away from survival horror games, but I always feel so secure with Niggurath-senpai guiding my hand.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:41
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Niggurath posted:I think it does rely on jump scares quite a bit at the start but it will definitely have plenty of more subtle scares or just atmospheric scares as we progress. It just runs the gamut between effective and really stupid more so than the other Fatal Frame games. I'm looking forward to the stupid, but I do think beginning with some jump scares is perfectly fine for a horror game. Because it builds tension. But a lot of modern horror games never let off the pedal with the horror stuff, which I think is a mistake. Giving the player a breather and making them feel like they're safe for a moment makes the next "Oh God too many tentacles run run run" moment makes things much more tense. Unlike the last Silent Hill games, which have been like, "Here's a monster, which gun/shovel/crowbar do you want to win the fight with." Good horror needs peaks and valleys.
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Aug 18, 2014 00:24
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More Fatal Frame with Niggurath! Thanks so much for LPing these. I love your calm and thorough LPs, and apparently I really enjoy the ghost stories presented by this series. I guess I'm sadly somewhat inured to the attractive woman for sake of player's viewing pleasure. Frankly, as long as the rituals aren't as sadistic (misogynistic) as FF3's, I will be relieved. Those were a class unto themselves. I did like FF3's dreamlike states, though, and found FF1 and FF2 's rituals very compelling from the "horrific rituals" standpoint. I'm eagerly awaiting what the clouded moon will show us.
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Aug 18, 2014 05:58
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Oh boy. I was just about to finish your FF3 LP and I was wondering where the hell I'd go to see 4.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:24
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Kacie posted:More Fatal Frame with Niggurath! This reminded me of something I said in the FF3 thread regarding the awful rituals: azren's past self posted:God, these rituals. I can see it now, on the third page of a document in Fatal Frame 5...
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Aug 18, 2014 20:22
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Your Fatal Frame LP's are great like always, Niggurath. While I don't like the system of "points for consumables, crystals for upgrades", it's a mercy against what can be considered one of the hardest required fights in the Fatal Frame series. Also, the harder the difficulty you play the game on the less available films there are in the shops Some extra bits to add about the game: - The moon is indeed a prevalent theme in the game, and this game uses the kanji for moon (seen romanized as tsuki, zuki, or getsu), quite often. Mostly, it's for poetic naming - The circles on the capture circle are indeed, moons. - This game is not as horrific in the rituals, but as you guess, stuff goes wrong. There's what I guess you'd call more "modern" horror elements to the game to compensate. - Fair warning that even with a very good translation, this game is more ambiguous on what happens compared to the past three games. - Adding to that, the parts where you learn about the ghost tend to span over chapters rather than being more contained like in the previous games. In other news, the newest Fatal Frame game was announced yesterday! The Japanese title is Zero: The Raven-Haired Shrine Maiden. It's for the WiiU and will be released in Japan on September 27.
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Aug 18, 2014 21:05
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Perlia posted:In other news, the newest Fatal Frame game was announced yesterday! The Japanese title is Zero: The Raven-Haired Shrine Maiden. It's for the WiiU and will be released in Japan on September 27.
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Aug 18, 2014 21:57
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Perlia posted:Your Fatal Frame LP's are great like always, Niggurath. Take for instance the nurse we've seen; now we'll be seeing that nurse quite a few times over the course of the first three chapters or so and with how much she's seen or documents we get from, or about her, you'd probably assume that there was some massive story to tell. But without spoiling too much...we're not. She's mostly just the nurse for the second floor and that's the extent of her story. It's a bit perplexing the amount of times she's a vanishing ghost or fought or shown in spooky situations with how insignificant of a character she is in the story (and trust me when I say that there are plenty of other characters that could be shown in the interim). And a part of me does want to be excited for a new Fatal Frame, but being only for the WiiU (and more than likely only coming out in Japan) lowers my interest quite a bit. Also I'm not totally sold on the game via the trailer either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1rv4GAZoho It looks like it could be a gorgeous looking game but then I see the fast running and the water hazards...and it seems not as Fatal Frame to me.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:09
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Niggurath posted:And a part of me does want to be excited for a new Fatal Frame, but being only for the WiiU (and more than likely only coming out in Japan) lowers my interest quite a bit. Also I'm not totally sold on the game via the trailer either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1rv4GAZoho It looks like it could be a gorgeous looking game but then I see the fast running and the water hazards...and it seems not as Fatal Frame to me. I wouldn't be shocked at all if the running scene was a scripted chase of some kind. Or maybe the game will take place in a full palace instead of just a mansion this time, who knows?  I'd like to give it a chance, god knows the WiiU is perfectly suited for it if they're clever about it.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:45
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