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Glazius posted:Man, it says something when it's world 2 and the end boss is just phoning it in. Mid-boss. The end boss of the world is a bit more decent. But we've already passed the best boss (Flibby), and none of the others even come close.
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Sep 9, 2014 03:45
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frozentreasure posted:Mid-boss. The end boss of the world is a bit more decent. But we've already passed the best boss (Flibby), and none of the others even come close. Hmmm. Well, to be fair, there is a rather neat touch in Chumley's level. I mean, watch a playthrough of that level, and look at the color of the sky. Blue, right? This may not appear to be anything much, until you remember that literally EVERY OTHER BOSS LEVEL that had any outdoor areas had a dark red sky instead of a blue one. This, to me, is a nice little touch by the game designers considering that Chumley is also the only boss besides Dante himself who is NOT enchanted by Dante's evil magic... I dunno. I always appreciated that. It's those little things that make it clear that, good or bad, the game designers were definitely invested in this game. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 04:44
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If anyone can figure out why YouTube wants me to add a "Kevin" tag to all of my Croc videos, I'll be quite impressed. Part 04: Goat Stew (feat. ElTipejoLoco)
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Sep 9, 2014 13:31
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Well what I was saying wasn't exactly a glitch, just something the developers probably didn't intend and something I found out accidentally. Basically, in order to reach the secret levels, you need to get 6 Gobbos in each level, right? Not exactly. It's actually 18 in total across three levels. The game doesn't actually care how many Gobbos you get per level, so long as it's overall 18. Which means, if you get 5 Gobbos from being unable to beat the cauldron, you could get 7 Gobbos in another level, and even it out. But how do you do that? Well, it might be because my copy of the game is glitched, but in some minigames, more specifically the one from level 3 of world 2, chasing around the box, if you die after collecting the Gobbo, another one appears in its place, but the previous Gobbo still counts, which means you can obtain as many Gobbos as you have lives, pretty much. I've used it to get 12, 18, 40 Gobbos in one level. So, if you can't beat a cauldron, you can get 7 Gobbos on another level (or get 6 Gobbos on the cauldron level and ignore the bonus room) and still access the secret level. I don't exactly remember which levels you can do this, I can look at my 100% file and figure out where I did the glitch. Because gently caress cauldrons, seriously. You can also do it for the sheep minigame, but I'm not sure if you can do it for the very first one. EDIT: Now that you mention it in video, dying when the Gobbo is still circling around you is probably how it works, I was just never sure myself, I swear it also worked way after you got the Gobbo, but I'll need to test it again. Also, that Dantini in the first secret room will steal a Gobbo from you if he touches you. I'm sure you've killed him before he can get you. Crosspeice fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 15:28
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If you can somehow play a copy of the Saturn version I think you'll be able to find out what Croc's original size was, as from my understanding they didn't resize him in that version...
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Sep 9, 2014 16:23
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Crosspeice posted:Well what I was saying wasn't exactly a glitch, just something the developers probably didn't intend and something I found out accidentally. So it's exactly a glitch. I did read about it when I looked for it, I'll be showing it off when I show the hover glitch as well. Crosspeice posted:Also, that Dantini in the first secret room will steal a Gobbo from you if he touches you. I'm sure you've killed him before he can get you. Yeah, I thought it might be that; I mentioned it when commentating over the video with RJ, but then that commentary had to be scrapped.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:40
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Frozentreasure is right btw Loco. You can't call them Tridantinis because that sounds like a set of Dantini triplets and not Dantinis wielding tridents.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:12
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When talking about German puns, could you have been referring to me showing off some names for Yoshi's Island levels back in that thread? I kinda stopped after three or so worlds because I lagged behind in the videos themselves, but YI is really fantastically localized  .I looked around a bit and there doesn't seem to be a German version of Croc, though.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:25
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Captain Fargle posted:Frozentreasure is right btw Loco. You can't call them Tridantinis because that sounds like a set of Dantini triplets and not Dantinis wielding tridents.  (I would have also accepted a Dantini breath mint brand.) Simply Simon posted:When talking about German puns, could you have been referring to me showing off some names for Yoshi's Island levels back in that thread? I kinda stopped after three or so worlds because I lagged behind in the videos themselves, but YI is really fantastically localized Also, that's a darn shame that there isn't a language select for Croc, then. Fionordequester posted:And, I'll even point out one flaw you didn't notice, which is that even though the sky starts out dark red in Itsy's stage...it then immediately goes back to blue when you get to Itsy himself...what the heck? I'm not enough of an audiophile to care that much about sound tracks, so I'll just take your word for it that Croc's is either eliciting or going to elicit an emotional response. I do not share your opinion re: Mario 64 though. Revisiting places to complete different tasks that may be easier or only accessible based on small changes in already explored environments is fine for adventuring in my book. ElTipejoLoco fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 21:52
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On the subject of puns...actually, pretty much all of the level names are puns in some way or another, even if they don't seem like it. "Ice Bridge to Eternity" for example? That one actually IS a pun, based off of a book by A.J. Marshall titled "Bridge To Eternity". And in addition, a lot of the weirder level titles are based off of songs. For example, "Shoutin' Lava Lava Lava" is based off of a song called "Born Slippy" (which had the lyrics "Shoutin' Lager, Lager, Lager"). And the level "Riot Brrr" is based off of an underground feminist punk rock movement called "Riot Grrrl". So, that's that... As for the levels, yeah, I did also notice that the bonus stages were pretty lackluster, and the difficulty of the levels is kind of all over the place. And, I'll even point out one flaw you didn't notice, which is that even though the sky starts out dark red in Itsy's stage...it then immediately goes back to blue when you get to Itsy himself...what the heck? Still, you have to admit, the environments are pretty fun to look at and explore. I mean, I know when I'm playing this game, I really get a sense of scale, like Croc is on this one long odyssey to rescue his friends, and has to go through all of these frankly really surreal environments, with lots of really debilitatingly high mountains, lots of extremely wide chasms, all sorts of weird platforms, with lots of crazy enemies... And of course, the general mood of the stages definitely changes with the worlds. Like how the music starts off high and hopeful in the first world, still hopeful with some more somber tracks mixed in when you get to the second world, but then becomes much more emotionally intense as you start exploring the very, very dangerous Desert World...and then finally, it becomes kind of eerie and mysterious when you enter Dante's castle... And that's pretty cool, because you never really got that from say, Super Mario 64, where you basically just run around on a bunch of giant playgrounds, usually with fairly upbeat tracks to go along with them. And that's not even counting the fact that you're literally playing the exact same levels over and over and over again, which also gets kind of monotonous after a while (well, at least some of them. Stuff like the Clock Tower, the Lava World, and the Hazy Maze Cave levels on the other hand, those stayed consistently interesting). I mean, it's a great game to be sure, but, you don't really get the sense that you're on some sort of grand adventure the way you do with this game. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 22:39
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Hmmm...btw, one thing I thought of, that I feel I ought to mention if you didn't already know. It's about those ghosts that you have to chase in the Desert bonus stages. I don't know if you already knew this, but you can make those particular sections much easier by skipping the crystals as best you can. For some reason, that makes the ghosts go slower. I know this is double posting, but, I also know that you're probably recording these ahead of time, so I just wanted to say something that might help you out  !
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Sep 10, 2014 22:58
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Everything was recorded almost a year ago, the only reason I didn't post the thread back then was because the other Croc thread posted literally right after I finished recording world five. I already know and made use of everything I could to make the whole game easier.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:21
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Scruffy still needs Dantini suggestions, by the way. Part 05: Fish Tacos (feat. RJWaters2)
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Sep 12, 2014 15:34
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I was led to believe this video would be titled "Oh, for Tuna!"
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Sep 12, 2014 18:29
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frozentreasure posted:There's this one guy, who's been constantly speaking in this game's defense... frozentreasure posted:I can't wait to here this one guy, and his...*bleepin* defense of this *bleep*.  , ah you  . Heh, heh, heh...anyways, yeah, don't get the wrong idea, I'm not upset at all about anything, and I don't really care whether or not you come to agree with me. I'm just having fun talking about this stuff, you know?Anyways though, I will agree that the edge detection could be better, that Neptuna was poorly designed, that the stage layouts clashed with the theme of the world, and also, there were a few moments where the camera messed you up. So it's not as though I entirely disagree with you...but...you are wrong about several things. First of all, this jump here?  You actually DON'T have to go immediately when you go through the door, and in fact, it's better to wait a bit before jumping, as shown here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tinr1h4aPVI&t=5m16s And as for that one ghost bonus stage in Level 3-3, the one where you thought the key wouldn't spawn if you didn't jump on the Bouncy Jello? That is incorrect as well, as this video shows... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y7XwWYkfjQ&t=5m20s So, whatever. Just wanted to clear that up. Now, onto the topic of how many lives you lost? Well, you lost about five to Neptuna (again, that WAS a poorly designed fight), and there was one jump in Level 3-3 where you just got utterly owned by that camera. But, the rest of them? Honestly, I didn't think any of those were unfair. I mean, first of all, as you said, you were impatient on a lot of those, and in addition, a lot of those jumps you made were jumps that weren't lined up very well. Like this...  Or this...  Or this...  And, well, you get the picture. Basically, instead of jumping straight, there were times where you ended up doing some kind of diagonal jump, and you ended up paying for that a few times. But, besides that, I feel like you're mistaking "difficulty" for "flawed game design". I mean, when you say stuff like... Frozentreasure posted:The jumps they expect you to make are absolutely ridiculous (or something like that) That's...actually a legitimate game design choice, and I wouldn't be surprised if Argonaut did intentionally make it as hard as it was. Which actually leads me into one of my favorite challenges in the game...  Yes, you're seeing that right. You're not blind. My philosophy on difficulty is that "as long as someone could theoretically do it on their first try with pure skill, it's fair, no matter what". So, last time when I thought you might hate the world for the very same reasons that I love it? This here is what I'm talking about, because in my opinion... This here is a very well designed room that is hard without being unfair. It challenges how precise your jumps are, it's a timing puzzle as you try to figure out the correct time to jump out of his fireball, and it challenges your ability to map things out in your head (the ability to know where the platform is going even when you can't actually see it, so you don't fall into air after dodging the fireball). It's hectic, but it's hectic in just the right way, at least, in my opinion. So when you run into rooms like that, I don't mind that either. And as for this moment...  I'll admit, this here is kind of borderline, as you wouldn't really see the Devil Dantini AND be clairvoyant enough to dodge out of the way the first time you get to this point. But, on the other hand, this level at least always provided you crystals to collect before these points, so you were never actually in danger of dying either. So even this isn't too terribly offensive to me, even though I don't like it as much as the room I linked above... But, if you don't find it fun, that's ok. Not everyone does, and in fact, I'll even admit that I love hard games WAY more than most people I've seen do. I mean heck, I'm actually LPing The 7th Fricken Saga right now. What kind of sane person would ever have fun doing that, right?! So I'm somewhat of a blood knight when it comes to video games... But anyways, nice episode once again. You guys are pretty good, and I love it !EDIT: Also...about the game over screen...I know it asks if you want to continue or not. I say that, because I think there might actually be an animation of Croc sulking away sadly if you choose "no", but, I'm not sure. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 22:44
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Fionordquester posted:Uh, no. That room is bullshit. Not because of the jumps and Tridentinis (I'm sorry), but because there are no gems in that room. Expecting you to be pixel perfect once, let alone twice, is bullshit. Also, crappy edge detection making jumps difficult is not good game design. That is the opposite of good game design. Oh and I guess I haven't even posted in here yet so uh... I liked this game in my childhood. I somehow managed to 100% it without the use of walkthroughs or guides, and watching these videos I have no idea how I managed such a feat.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:03
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Silver Falcon posted:Uh, no. That room is bullshit. Not because of the jumps and Tridentinis (I'm sorry), but because there are no gems in that room. Expecting you to be pixel perfect once, let alone twice, is bullshit. Eh, I wouldn't even say it's pixel perfect. Just gotta make sure you land somewhere near the back of the platforms (If you watch the vid, Frozen tended to be near the front of those platforms in that room when the fireballs kept killing him). Silver Falcon posted:Also, crappy edge detection making jumps difficult is not good game design. That is the opposite of good game design. The edge detection really only comes into play when you don't line the jump up very well though. Not that I'm trying to excuse it, but edge detection wasn't what caused most of the deaths in this most recent video. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 00:20
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I have 100% this game quite a few times, but you do burn through lives in the last few worlds. I only don't think it's bullshit now due to how much I practiced these levels and therefore don't find it hard anymore. But I think when I was younger I got many, many game overs and had a lot of trouble finishing and completing the game. So I like this game, but I don't think it's good. Though if (or when) I lp this game, I'll be a lot more positive mainly because I still play and enjoy bad games because I'm a bad person or something.  \/ Don't think this game is a 7 (nor would I give Mario 64 as high as a 9, but that's  and personal taste), but definitely agree on Crash/Spyro.Play Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly frozentreasure, for what a bad game is really like! 
Crosspeice fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 00:25
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Crosspeice posted:I have 100% this game quite a few times, but you do burn through lives in the last few worlds. I only don't think it's bullshit now is due to how much I practiced these levels and therefore don't find it hard anymore. But I think when I was younger I got many, many game overs and had a lot of trouble finishing and completing the game. Mmm, fair enough. As for me, I'd say that if Super Mario 64 is a 9/10, and if Crash and Spyro are an 8/10, then this game is about a 7/10. And yet, due to my particular tastes, I happen to like playing this better than either of those anyways !
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Sep 15, 2014 00:27
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I loved* this game when I was little. I had no idea it started as a Yoshi thing. *I loved watching my older brother play it and letting me hit the gong at the end of the level because that poo poo was so beyond me.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:48
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Hmmm...so now that we've got the gameplay stuff out of the way...let's talk about some music, shall we? Now, another of the reasons why I love the Desert World so much is because it's where I feel like the music is really at its best, to the point where even the music that was obviously recycled from other music tracks (because let's face it, as great as the soundtrack is, it also recycles a lot of its music and motifs as you go through the game) is really distinct in one way or another. For example, these two themes? Croc - Legend Of the Gobbos - 41 - Cave 12 (this here is my favorite use of the "eerie call" motif, as I like to call it.) Croc - Legend Of the Gobbos - 42 - Desert Island 3 (Love the organ, the drums, and the percussion here!) These here are my two favorites in the whole game. But, enough about me, how about you guys? You have any favorites? Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 06:52
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Man, of all the places to put your water boss, why the desert? Why not, uh, NOT the desert?
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Sep 21, 2014 03:30
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Well...the game designers WERE going to have several more Islands, one of them being an actual Water Island where I assume Neptuna would have been...but those plans didn't ultimately pan out. I assume then that since they already completed the Neptuna boss fight, they had to put him somewhere, and he would have been too difficult for the first two islands, hence...where he is now. Still, at least Frozen was spared some pain! Because man, if you think the Desert World is bad, just imagine how the Water World would have been !EDIT: Also, I believe several Desert levels were scrapped from the final game, hence why Level 3-3 wasn't exactly very "Deserty".
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Sep 21, 2014 03:52
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I got sidetracked by Dark Souls 2 last week and had to go beat that quickly. Let's continue. Part 06: Cactus Salsa (feat. Zain)
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Sep 21, 2014 11:57
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Whoever had the Dantini mix, I can't find vermouth. Give me an alternative.
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Sep 21, 2014 12:26
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Hmm, not really anything BIG to comment on, other than the fact that that actually went surprisingly well, so kudos to you Frozen! Nice playing! Although...you're not bitter at all about me saying that most of the deaths in the last vid were your fault, are you? If I offended you, I apologize. I mean, I still think that's true, but I didn't mean to imply that you were a whiner or anything like that... Now, to address some of the questions brought up... Zain posted:Why couldn't they have just made the levels bigger rather than making Croc smaller? According to this... http://croc.5u.com/facts.htm The reason they couldn't make the levels larger was because they ran into technical limitations. So shrinking Croc was their way of making the levels "feel" bigger. Frozen posted:See this Arrow platform? I totally would have had it if I had a range shadow, like every other platformer ever made!! I know right? And it's made even more infuriating by the fact that Croc actually does get a shadow, but only AFTER he's let go of...that...THING, he was holding on to!  !!Zain posted:From everything I'm hearing, it seems like it's kind of amazing that this game even got made! ...You know what, that might not be far off from the truth. According to that same Croc website, this game actually WAS supposed to be the very first 3D game ever made at the time that Argonaut pitched it to Nintendo. So Croc actually went into production before Crash Bandicoot or Super Mario 64 ever did, and yet, was only finished at around 1997, which was about a year after either of those two titles, and yet, there are still a wide variety of levels and concepts that were scrapped (in fact, there were supposed to be snowboarding levels in this game, hence the "sliding" animation Croc does when he accidentally slides off of a ledge). So basically, for whatever reason, the designers had a TON of trouble getting this game out the door. Why that is, I don't know, though I suspect it had to do with a combination of... 1) Argonaut's inexperience at 3D platforming. 2) Them having to suddenly find new publishers for their game since they recently broke up with Nintendo while the game was in development. 3) Said new publishers telling them that they had to program the game for three different platformers, including the Saturn, which as you guys alluded to, was infamous for being buggy, and an all around pain to work with. (For reference, Crash Bandicoot and Super Mario 64 were only released on one platform, so the designers had much less work to do as far as that went) And, while I was looking up that info, I came across some nifty information... Frozen posted:(General talk from the last vid about how Croc may or may not have been the inspiration for Super Mario 64) Well, as it turns out, that's exactly right! According to this article featuring an interview with Jez San (founder of Argonaut)... "Miyamoto-san came up to me at a show afterwards and apologised for not doing the Yoshi game with us and thanked us for the idea to do a 3D platform game. He also said that we would make enough royalties from our existing deal to make up for it." So...that's that mystery solved I guess? Unless of course, this is a "Foodfight" situation where the director and founder is a complete jerk, who abuses his employees and is clearly not above fabricating the truth...but that's just hypothetical. Not that this is relevant to the actual quality of this game, but I figure this was all interesting stuff to talk about, so why not bring it up? Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 00:26
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If Croc was developed by Rare, that boss would have been named Needle Dick. Also it wouldn't suck so bad.
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Sep 22, 2014 03:29
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The sentiment of world 4 carries through the rest of the game, really: it's not just that it's bad, Croc is disappointing; every time there's a glimpse of a good idea, the game quickly ruins it. Part 07: Donuts (feat. Apt Funk)
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Sep 24, 2014 12:23
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Next episode introduces the best enemy in the game, unless I'm misunderstanding the format of each episode.
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Sep 24, 2014 14:26
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Frozentreasure posted:Yeah, once again, TOTALLY my fault for not aligning my jumps EXACTLY perfectly :/... Well, yeah, of course it is. Also, FF8 is like, the best FF ever, and anyone who likes FF7, with it's emo pretty boys with huge swords, and it's polygon models, needs to have extreme, invasive brain surgery for thinking something so nonsensical. Because asthetics are EVERYTHING in a game, and Elentor...I dunno what his deal is, but clearly he's not all there... Ok, but seriously, I get what you mean about the camera, and there were several instances where you got messed up by it in this video. So I'm really not trying to say you're incompetent or anything, or that you're an impatient whiner. I just...think you're exaggerating a little, that's all  . Anyways...Frozentreasure posted:This world is definitely better than the last one (even if it's still not that great). Hmm...you know what the funny thing is? I never liked this world as much as I liked the Desert World. Whereas the Desert World was usually very solid in how it was designed, I feel like the Castle World had a lot of interesting that, unfortunately, weren't developed to what they could have been. For example, we have "Dungeon of Defright" and "Smash and See" that had neat concepts that were ruined by bad execution (kind of like all of Mega Man X5 that way, now that I think about it). And unfortunately...the 2nd half of that world is kind of like that as well with Platform Pete's stage being the only one that made good use of it's gimmick. I mean, I still really liked the world, and I'd still consider it the 2nd best world, but, it definitely didn't have the polish that the Desert World did. Also, minor nitpick, but I thought the surroundings REALLY got monotonous after a while. Whereas the rest of the worlds were so full of variety in their environments, THIS world...well, aside from the occasional dungeon segments, this world is basically just the same two screens repeated over and over again. And the only real difference between said screens is that one of them has portraits of Baron Dante and his family, and the other...doesn't... Yeah, kind of lame, that  ...though, as long as we're talking about the Dungeon of Defright.Frozentreasure posted:Boy, the Dungeon of Defright...this one SUUuuuUUUUUUuuuuucks.... Oh man, you can say that again ! I mean, I get what they were going for with the end of that level...but even then, the much better, and much more sensical solution would have been to make it so that you could actually go back to the main room even after choosing the wrong one. Like, that one room with the enemy gauntlet? What I personally would have done would be to have the room lock you in, but only until you cleared out all of the enemies, and NOT permanently. And then, I dunno, maybe the room with no enemies, would require you to go through a bunch of really complicated jumping puzzles in order to get a key or something. That way, you're still being punished for making the wrong choice, but you're being punished in a way that's fair, you know what I mean?...But, you know what? That makes me think of something else... Frozentreasure posted:You know what else sucks? That stupid whack-a-mole mini-game! The Pots! The Ghost Mini-game! The hidden gems! And that one room that Fionordequester is STUPID for thinking is well designed! Arrrrgghhh!! One other thing I've been thinking about...you knock this game a lot for all of the annoying "screw you"'s that it throws at you, right? Well, they are definitely screw you's, and they are annoying...but is it really fair to have those bog down the game that much for you? I mean, they are annoying, yes...but on the other hand...almost none of that stuff is stuff you're ever going to see unless you try and 100% the game. So the Sheep mini-game, the Pot mini-game, the way the Dungeon of Defright screws you over, the way you have to pick up every gem if you want to find all of the colored gems, the ghost mini-game...none of that stuff actually matters if you just want to beat Baron Dante, and leave it at that. In fact, that may actually be the right way to play considering how little there is to Croc's postgame. Kind of like Spyro: Ripto's Rage now that I think about it... But anyways, is it really fair then to cry foul at all that stuff? Because even the best of the PS1 platformers get more annoying when you add that in. I mean, Crash Bandicoot literally requires you to break every single box in it's levels (so basically, it'd be like if this game required you to get every single cystal rather than just five specific ones), and I'm fairly certain that it doesn't just let you turn back if you get to the end, and discover "Oh shoot, I missed one box! Welp, guess I'm not going to get that silver gem now!" And then with Super Mario 64, that one not only requires you to play every single level at least seven times, but it also takes away every single coin you have if you die. So imagine what it's like getting, say, 95 coins in Rainbow Ride, accidently falling to your death, and then "WHOOPS! GUESS I GOTTA GET ALL THOSE COINS ALL OVER AGAIN!" And then Spyro...hmmm...actually, I can't really remember any blatant screw yous in that one. I guess one could KIND of say that Mr. Moneybags was kind of annoying, but, even then, you DO get to beat the living crud out of him in the 3rd game, so it's all good there. In fact, now that I think about it, I think I might actually rate Spyro to be the best 3D platformer series of them all, at least up until Year of the Dragon started...guess I might bump that up to a 9/10 in my estimation... So what do you think? Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 05:46
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Settle down. Your  make my eyes glaze over; you can make your point a little more succinctly.First, don't put words in my mouth. I never said the whack-a-minigames sucked, I never said that the pot minigame sucks, I never said the ghost minigame sucks. It's the execution of all of them that are bad. Whack-a-minigames are boring because they never change, the pot minigame goes for about two minutes too long and the ghost minigame is unnecessarily punishing. All three of them are made more frustrating by the bad controls. Fionordequester posted:One other thing I've been thinking about...you knock this game a lot for all of the annoying "screw you"'s that it throws at you, right? Well, they are definitely screw you's, and they are annoying...but is it really fair to have those bog down the game that much for you? I mean, they are annoying, yes...but on the other hand...almost none of that stuff is stuff you're ever going to see unless you try and 100% the game. That's a fallacy; just because I don't have to play parts of the game doesn't make them or the game any better. They're still parts of the game. quote:But anyways, is it really fair then to cry foul at all that stuff? Because even the best of the PS1 platformers get more annoying when you add that in. I mean, Crash Bandicoot literally requires you to break every single box in it's levels (so basically, it'd be like if this game required you to get every single cystal rather than just five specific ones), and I'm fairly certain that it doesn't just let you turn back if you get to the end, and discover "Oh shoot, I missed one box! Welp, guess I'm not going to get that silver gem now!" First, Crash controls far, far, far better than Croc. Second, you are almost never in doubt of where boxes are; most levels have all of their boxes on the critical path and the bonus stage and that's it. Third, the player is more enticed to break boxes than they are to collect every single gem; even a single extra wumpa fruit is more valuable than a single gem that you lose in one hit. Fourth, the Crash trilogy has plenty of dick moves; it still doesn't excuse Croc's design. Saying that other PS1 platformers did similar things just makes it apparent how bad the early days of 3D platforming were and how lucky we were to get the hits that we did. quote:And then with Super Mario 64, that one not only requires you to play every single level at least seven times, but it also takes away every single coin you have if you die. So imagine what it's like getting, say, 95 coins in Rainbow Ride, accidently falling to your death, and then "WHOOPS! GUESS I GOTTA GET ALL THOSE COINS ALL OVER AGAIN!" You're still comparing Mario 64 to Croc when they are fundamentally designed differently, and I already said this. Mario 64 is a 3D platformer. Croc is a 2D platformer that plays in 3D. It also doesn't strengthen your point to use the final main level of Mario 64 as a point of comparison; by that point, I would expect the game to be hard, I would expect myself and anyone else who plays the game to be good enough that, if they gently caress up and die, they accept the consequences of their failure. Yes, Mario 64 also has its share of problems; all that means is that it also has problems, not that neither it nor Croc deserve to be called out for their problems. quote:So what do you think? I think you're trying really hard to prove to other people that Croc isn't that bad and to make me not have the opinion I have. I harbour disappointment for Croc, you don't; do you really expect either of us to change our minds in the course of this thread?
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Sep 25, 2014 07:40
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frozentreasure posted:I think you're trying really hard to prove to other people that Croc isn't that bad and to make me not have the opinion I have. I harbour disappointment for Croc, you don't; do you really expect either of us to change our minds in the course of this thread? Of course not. Like I said, I don't care one way or the other, I just have fun discussing things, especially things that are generally too nerdy for most of the people in my life to be interested in. Like, really old 3D platformers like this... But, I could stop if you aren't having so much fun. EDIT: In fact, thinking about it a little more, if anything...it's actually kind of cool that you DON'T necessarily agree with me, because frankly, that makes for a much more interesting conversation. Otherwise, the whole exchange between us would be, "This is a great game!". "Yep, it sure is". "...". And that would be that. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 08:33
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Super Mario 64 has fun levels with fun and forgiving mechanics though, and significantly changes the levels for each new star. I can't say that I'd want to play any of the Croc levels even once, let alone a second time, but Jolly Roger Bay and Cool, Cool Mountain are awesome and fun enough that I could totally see myself 100%ing them again. Honestly I think Crash Bandicoot is a much more fair comparison to Croc owing to the already-pointed-out similarities in level concepts and actually less experienced history (3 games as Jam Software and 3 as Naughty Dog compared to 17 for Argonaut Software). It's really telling that even the original Crash did (so far as I can tell) all the concepts the Croc game has used thus far better; even hard but fair difficulty is done better because a) camera fuckery doesn't exist and b) Crash isn't slow by default.
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Sep 25, 2014 14:20
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:Honestly I think Crash Bandicoot is a much more fair comparison to Croc owing to the already-pointed-out similarities in level concepts and actually less experienced history (3 games as Jam Software and 3 as Naughty Dog compared to 17 for Argonaut Software). It's really telling that even the original Crash did (so far as I can tell) all the concepts the Croc game has used thus far better; even hard but fair difficulty is done better because a) camera fuckery doesn't exist and b) Crash isn't slow by default. Yeah, that's true...I dunno. I guess to me, saying that Croc is a bad game because "hey, look at how good Crash and Spyro were!", is a little like comparing Roy Nelson (a competitor in the UFC) to Bruce Lee and Anderson Silva (Anderson being the UFC Champion). Both of the latter would probably wipe the floor with Roy, but that doesn't mean Roy is a bad fighter (even if he is chubby enough to pass for Santa Claus). That's just a testament to how incredible Bruce was, and how incredible Anderson is! But again, if any of you feel like we're starting to cover the same ground over and over, tell me, and I'll leave it at that  !
Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 21:22
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I feel kind of sad for the end boss, really. Everything's so idyllic he can barely turn anything mean. The best he can hope for is "careless".
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Oct 2, 2014 20:43
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Yeah. BTW, played a bit more Croc recently. Turns out, not only does the stage music not loop...but some screens will actually start playing different music once the sound comes back on. Like this screen here? That starts out playing this song... but then once the music fades out and comes back, this song starts playing instead. So if they actually placed two different songs on some screens, I guess that would explain why the music doesn't loop...seriously not worth it though.
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Oct 3, 2014 05:16
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This really shouldn't have taken this long, but we kept missing each other on Skype. Part 08: Dantini Cocktails (feat. heytallman) Glazius posted:I feel kind of sad for the end boss, really. You'll feel sadder when you see the real end boss.
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Oct 19, 2014 15:58
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And now we get to what is probably are probably the most lazily designed, worthless, obviously rushed levels you will ever find in this game. These next few levels take almost every negative quality this game has, amps them up to 11, and strips out all the good. Basically the only thing good about them is that they don't require you to do those dumb Dungeon of Defright mini-games, and they also do something cool with the level progression of one of the world's. But other than that, it's all nonsense. Even the DIFFICULTY, which is normally fairly well designed (if not perfect), revolves entirely around one, fricken ONE, obnoxious and unoriginal gimmick that gets run into the ground before the world is even half-way over. Guys, what we are going to see in these next few levels...even I can't defend this. And no, this isn't some sort of joke post, I'm actually being serious. I mean, like I said, these levels aren't bad in the same way "Dungeon of Defright" was, but they seriously come off like the game designers never even intended to make a post-game, but then hastily assembled one at the very last minute. So, look forward to that. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Oct 20, 2014 |
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Oct 20, 2014 07:04
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Jenner is very sorry that her headset caused noise bleed. I did my best, but the noise gate preset on the compressor does weird things to the audio that's left once it blocks out the audio you don't want. Part 09: Crystal Head Vodka (feat. dscruffy1 & Jenner) I was going to record a bonus video of me showing off the hover glitch, what happens when you collect 7-105 gobbos, and a couple of other things, but my Croc 1 disc is apparently so scratched to hell that it can't load up either of my saves and I have no interest in starting from the beginning. So here ya go. And here ya go. Thanks for coming out, everyone.
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Oct 28, 2014 14:29
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Well, the game is pretty bad, but, well, I still like it. Because I'm crazy. Oh well. And those switches you couldn't figure out removed a plug from the warp pipes to the next area. It took me a while to figure it out too. And the other dungeon passage is more hammer switch platforms, aka, the only level you really liked. Looking forward to the Croc 2 LP
Crosspeice fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 16:26
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