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HiveCommander posted:
If you had told me that was done by someone who was brand new to the hobby, who was really working hard on practicing their skills, I'd have said "very nice job, especially the freehand  " (because freehand can be an absolute pain in the rear end to do, even for experienced painters).From a professional company that offers this up as an example of a service they want people to pay for? That's downright disgraceful. 
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Sep 6, 2014 19:32
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Vermintide posted:I ended up sitting through that whole video in dumbfounded horror. My wallet weeps as I think to imagine the hundreds of dollars spent on that army, and the hundreds-- thousands?? more he tossed at Blue Table to have it painted to such a lazy, terrible standard. Level 4 = covering eyes with one hand, blindly waving the airbrush with the other? Man, if I was handed such nice, pricey models it would be physically impossible for me to not put every bit of TLC I could into 'em. Especially if I was being also handed tons of cash with them. Shawn Gately's comments on that video are hilarious, too. It's basically BTP trying to either spin things in their favor, pretending nothing is wrong, or blaming the client for poor communication as to why things turned out the way they did. 
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Oct 10, 2014 07:26
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IIRC there was a story on Tabletop Gaming News (at least, I think it was that site) that involved BTP in some way, probably about their failed "Give us money so we can buy models to sell to you" Kickstarter. Someone commented negatively on it, Gately responded, and then I think it just snowballed from there. I think the guy who drove from Texas told his story, along with the husband and wife who said they were told to file their taxes as independent contractors (rather than as full-time employees, which they actually were), and when they didn't, all of a sudden there were all kinds of "problems" with their work and they were eventually let go.  E: also I think the guy from Texas was the one who said that Gately made negative comments about hiring people with disabilities. I think he said it was during a Skype interview, when the guy happened to mention he got a small disability check from the VA. Gately kept forgetting to put the call on mute and would lean over and make comments to the manager sitting next to him, unaware that the guy on the other end of the call heard everything he was saying.  E2: also forgot to say just how awesome this really is  Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 17:31
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Pierzak posted:Thread's favorite painting studio, new episode: I read the comments and a few people have commented that the guy is now apparently pursuing legal recourse against BTP. I sure hope that is the case.
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Nov 9, 2014 18:33
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Indolent Bastard posted:Colour me shocked and amazed, that after Miniwargaming has attended Vahalla: The Ultimate Wargamers Retreat, hosted by BTP for the last few years; that they would try to artificially prop up BTP and its lovely business habits/work ethic. This reminds me that one time Gately did a video at Valhalla with the guy who created Dropzone Commander. They were playing a demo game and the most notable thing about it was Gately routinely commenting on the guy's English accent, to the point where the DZC guy started to get rather annoyed (he even said "It's OK, I don't mind if you mock me" at one point). 
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Nov 9, 2014 20:28
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JerryLee posted:Gates Workshop Gately's Workshop; or, perhaps more accurately, Gately's Sweatshop
Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 09:05
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Grey Hunter posted:Yeah, I had to feel for the Hawk guy, new game, needs publicity. There are some prices you have to make, but that smacked of a deal with the Devil. And just to continue on this point, I read on one of the "BTP are shite" threads (either Dakka or Warseer, I forget which) that BTP put the armies given to them by Hawk Wargames up for sale, most likely not long after that demo game took place. E: also, while I never paid them a dime for a membership or anything, I used to subscribe to MWG's Youtube channel because I thought some of their stuff was OK. But after digging and reading about how they're soliciting only positive BTP stuff from their paid members, they can go take a flying gently caress at a rolling doughnut as far as I'm concerned now. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 19:07
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SRM posted:Comments have already been deleted They haven't though?  I'm looking at that specific one that Indolent Bastard quoted right now, along with a few others:quote:Honestly look at each pic and tell me thats pro painted? Looks like the kinda stuff you find on ebay thats 'pro painted' quote:Lost all and any respect for MWG. Shame really, always enjoyed your vids. But this biased big boys in the community shoulder rubbing is pathetic. Honesty is so rare these days. quote:Don`t you guys get it?? Matt said all those good things of BTP because he didn`t want to loose to many friends, but he also cares about his customers and tries to help wargamers out with picking a studio! Sooooo he put all those terribly painted minis in the end and showed us, how awful their paintjobs are, so we don`t buy the BTP propoganda. I mean they couldn`t seriously put out those minis and be proud of them... I mean... Right? No? You make me sad, MWG. So close to joining the vault (after old world batreps I was itching to) , but NOPE, not going to happen. quote:Don't you guys get the picture yet? Nobody likes these videos, the models are terribly painted, they are incredibly expensive when they say that painting costs $1 per point! I'm unsubscribing from you as i am sick of you being an advertisement site, I have to watch an advertisement from YouTube before the video (which gives you money) and then watch this, which is yet another advertisement.... quote:Those warmachine models look like they were painted by beginners. If I paid a commission painting service & got models back that looked like that I'd be looking for my money back. quote:Sold out. Guess, it only takes a couple of free Vahalla trips to buy you. Wow,
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Nov 11, 2014 19:34
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Also I have to chuckle at how Matt/Dave at MWG apparently thought inserting themselves into the toxic BTP situation was in any way a good idea, and that they thought this was the right way to go about it. Though I did read somewhere that Gately, Matt, and Dave are all Mormons? So maybe that's the connection 
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Nov 11, 2014 19:45
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Direwolf posted:There's just something about all the BTP painting that does the opposite of "pop". Everything just seems muted and kinda...I don't want to say messy, but a little off. I'm not a very good painter and my best paint jobs seem to be on about their level, which for a commissioned painting service is kinda gross. They're completely an assembly-line painting commission service, with an apparently high burnout/turnover rate of painters. The reason their stuff looks so terrible (except for stuff they paint for their partners or clients they deem "important", I guess) is because they're run by a guy who evidently has no qualms about delivering substandard work after he's taken someone's money.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:58
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Business Gorillas posted:If it makes you feel any better, you can complain and the owner of BTP will happily fire a decent chunk of his staff. But only if he manages to read your email during one of the few times he isn't away from his office, at a location with poor/no Internet service.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:21
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SRM posted:poo poo, they weren't displaying for me so I figured they'd been deleting them. Good to know! Yeah, I quoted a few examples but there are several more people basically decrying MWG for cronyism/selling out/being idiots for trying to rally their subscribers around BTP.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:52
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On the plus side, I am now actually feeling pretty motivated to paint, knowing that even my most sloppy, half-assed jobs are at least better than BTP's "professional" standard.
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Nov 12, 2014 08:03
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jadebullet posted:Yes, because when you think of sending your miniatures off to be painted by a professional service, you will be happy when you get back something painted by the 12 year old kids of the owner. Just to add some context to this, apparently Gately went to some town hall meeting a politician (either state or local, I forget which) was holding, and legit asked him if they could lower the legal working age to 12, so his kids could be on the payroll. 
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Nov 13, 2014 03:34
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Star Man posted:You know, all they had to do on that land raider was use masking tape. And airbrush more than one basecoat over the primer, and drill out the multi-melta barrels, and just generally not be terrible.
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Nov 13, 2014 03:45
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Loxbourne posted:Interesting that MWG cut and ran, then. Did the sheer scale of the fallout make them panic? No idea, but I do think MWG severely underestimated just how unpopular Gately/BTP is within the wargaming community right now, and I'm still amazed that they apparently thought they could just insert themselves into this whole toxic situation, and suffer no repercussions or loss of paying customers or whatnot. That's almost at "current GW management"-levels in terms of "stupid business decisions".
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Nov 14, 2014 00:15
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Indolent Bastard posted:Probably wasn't worth the static and the drop in subs, I protest dropped my subscription. Don't back shady businesses MWG, and BTP is shady as gently caress. Seriously, for a business as reliant on customer/subscriber goodwill as MWG is, backing BTP in this particular situation was colossally stupid. Regardless of whatever business connection they have, or how good friends they are, or even if they received a message from Joseph Smith himself telling them what to do, the best and only thing MWG should have done was a "no comment" or similar in regards to what they think about what was going on with BTP.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:44
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BULBASAUR posted:If they are all part of the same mormon clan, it also makes sense Yeah, that's why I made the Joseph Smith reference in my previous post. Though what does that say about them, if they then proceeded to cut and run on their Mormon brother in his hour of need? 
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Nov 14, 2014 01:12
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JcDent posted:Is Mormonism somehow linked to being a lovely businessman? Quick, someone find out what particular religion Tom Kirby follows!
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Nov 14, 2014 02:37
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Apparently Gately replied to someone's comment on a BTP video, regarding the situation with the dude's Chaos Dwarf models:quote:Though it may not seem like it, this matter is at the forefront of my mind. I do care for this situation and for this client. Note that Gately doesn't mention that all four of the "solutions" he offered were either ridiculously unworkable (fly an artist out to the guy's house to fix it? Get the gently caress outta here) or required the guy to place further trust in BTP (which he was understandably unwilling to do), and that the one solution the guy did accept (have the models fixed by another studio) was subsequently retracted by Gately after he realized it was going to cost him money. Also note that Gately is basically willing to send anyone who's interested the private business correspondence between himself and a client.
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Nov 14, 2014 06:08
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ghetto wormhole posted:Yeah what the gently caress? That's weird and unprofessional as hell. Well, that's basically Gately in a nutshell. There are a few ex-employee stories floating around about how Gately thinks he's always right, believes he's above rules and laws, etc. It doesn't surprise me a bit to learn that he thinks releasing private correspondence from a client is a perfectly acceptable method of damage control.
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Nov 14, 2014 08:50
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thespaceinvader posted:Interesting video, but pretty loving ignorant in places - 'black doesn't get shaded and white doesn't get highlighted' so don't pay extra for shades and highlights on those colours. How do you shade pure black/highlight pure white, though? Not being snarky, I'm just puzzled as to why you're pissed off about this particular point.
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Nov 14, 2014 19:46
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The way I've always painted black was to start with black, then do highlights with various shades of gray (number of highlights & lightness of color depending on the effect desired), and I've always painted "pure white" as basically the inverse: focusing more on the shading and not so much the highlighting (like with the white armor parts on Biel-Tan Eldar, for example). That was my approach years before I'd even heard of Doc Faust's Painting Clinic, so while I see where you guys are coming from, I kind of agree with what he says, too. Different (brush) strokes and all that. v v
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Nov 14, 2014 20:31
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Daedleh posted:No he's not. Another commission service has offered to bring the army up to spec. Note the "Ronald McDonald" color scheme on the horns of the BTP mini, which were nowhere specified in the guy's original request.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:48
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Leperflesh posted:No, painting that way produces the same results only if your "highlights" for black actually get down to the point they're also providing the midtone, and only if your "shading" for white also gets up to the point where you're providing the midtone. At which point you've put in the same amount of effort as you would for painting any other color. Fair enough, and truthfully I don't tend to paint white or black very often these days, so I might have to give some other techniques a try next time and see how they work out.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:50
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Leperflesh posted:If you're OK with a mini that has just a basecoat and highlight or just a basecoat and shade, that's fine, it can work for tabletop-quality troops. Now you mention it, I do think the last time I painted troops with large amounts of black or white on 'em was when I used to be heavily into 40k, and was painting Black Templars and/or Biel-Tan Eldar. So yeah, I think my approach was more about "get these rank and file guys done" and not so much about getting a high-quality job done.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:58
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An Angry Bug posted:As someone who knows BTP is poo poo, that "upgrade" looks horrible. Sure, just slap on blood spatter without regard to the lines of the figure or whether the placement makes sense. Make everything all gritty and grubby even though it'll just look like bad paint from tabletop distance. I agree 100%, though at least the other service gave the guy what he actually wanted (even if it does look janky as hell), instead of just doing less than the bare minimum like BTP did.
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Nov 14, 2014 21:17
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Colonial Air Force posted:With all the time and effort (and maybe lawyer money) that dude could've just painted them himself. IIRC, he was prepping two armies at the same time for some tourney or whatever, so he elected to have the Chaos Dwarfs painted by BTP while he worked on the other army (no idea what that army was tho), or some such thing like that. Also I agree that his desired look for the army is pretty much rear end, but at the end of the day, dude paid for BTP to paint it, so he deserves to get at least within spitting distance of the look he wants (even if it is the personification of "GRIMDARK LOL").
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Nov 15, 2014 07:39
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moths posted:There is no legitimate way someone wouldn't want action figures of the assholes who shot his grandpa, no way at all no sir. Hey man, his mate enjoyed sinking the ship that his grandpa served on, clearly these guys need to just deal with it 
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Nov 19, 2014 18:58
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Leperflesh posted:No but you see, if I collect hundreds of toy soldiers representing the forces of Nazi Germany, but someone else finds that they personally would not want to, that means they're judging me and that makes me uncomfortable. And since I know I'm not doing anything wrong, it must be something wrong with them. How else can I resolve this cognitive dissonance? This, a thousand times. If you get all  up over whether or not someone else feels comfortable or not playing the Nazis in a tabletop wargame, then I humbly suggest that the problem does not lie with the other person.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:55
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Regarde Aduck posted:I humbly suggest that such a person should not be playing historical war games then. Wanting to play war but then getting into a CARE-OFF about Nazis just means you're confused at best and a big gay baby at worst. And as you're all goons here i'm afraid it's likely to be terminal gay babyism. Which person should not be playing historical war games? The person who gets all over not wanting to play the Nazis, or the person who gets all  over people who don't want to play the Nazis? I can kind of understand the former, but don't really get the latter. vv
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Nov 19, 2014 20:09
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:He means the person who will tell you they find playing Germans in WW2 #problematic, but have no such qualms about playing another faction which was also equally lovely during that period. OK, that's fair enough then. My workaround for that is to just play Soviets vs. Germans all the time. There, now you have two equally horrible and oppressive regimes duking it out!
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Nov 19, 2014 20:19
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Is it a big thing in historicals to have shared collections, or something? I think it's more that in most WWII wargames, the European Theater seems to be the main source of material for rules, minis, etc. So when most people get together to play a WWII-era game, it's usually "Our Brave Allies vs. The Natzi Bastards" and that doesn't leave you with a lot of options as to who gets to play what, when compared to WHFB, 40k, WM/H, etc.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:41
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rkajdi posted:At this level, I'd even screw decent brushes. I still just use a cheapy brush set from Micheal's ($5 for 4 small sabol brushes- 0, 3/0, 5/0, and 10/0) and while the wear out faster, they're fine for use until they do. Brushes at $5 or more each just aren't worth it if you aren't a painting ninja. I did this in the past and still do this. Heck, I just bought one of those $4 packs of brushes you can get in the crafts section of most big retail stores. I do tend to burn thru 'em, but then I just spend another $4 or $5 and get some more.
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Nov 21, 2014 20:58
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Business Gorillas posted:I never got the THIN YOUR PAINTS stuff. I never thin my paints and the stuff I do turns out just fine I think it's less "THIN YOUR PAINTS" and more "DAUB SOME OF THE EXCESS PAINT OFF YOUR BRUSH AND ONTO A PAPER TOWEL, BEFORE APPLYING IT TO A MINIATURE"
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Nov 24, 2014 22:41
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I am on board with an army of Danny DeVito miniatures, as long as the army's champion is modeled as wearing a pro wrestling singlet, and triumphantly raising a trash can aloft. 
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Dec 11, 2014 09:55
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Leperflesh posted:The difference though, and the actual problem with BTP, is that they're dishonest. Their results are not up to the level they promised their customers, they're also inconsistent, badly designed (bad color combinations), utilize poor technique (drybrushing where it's not appropriate, for example), and have a business practices that are at least shady, if not illegal. They also as we have seen have terrible public relations practices; leaking customer communications, attacking critics, whining and making excuses and just being super unprofessional in every way. The main thing to remember about BTP is that they are run by a guy who embodies all the worst aspects of both Mormonism and libertarianism, with an exceedingly fake "hail-fellow-well-met" nature slapped on top of it. He also thinks he is going to be the Henry Ford of miniature painting services, with delusions of grandeur about making his Valhalla geek gathering the next Adepticon, becoming a motivational speaker, etc., etc. He also apparently feels that being a small businessman should immediately render him immune to criticism and customer complaints, because running your own business is the noblest calling one can have, and so he should be cut extra slack because, hey, he's not a big faceless corporation, he's just one dude (who runs an assembly-line style painting service with people that can apparently be swapped in and out at will). Once you figure out all that, then you realize why Gately does the things he does, and why you'd be better served setting both your models and your money on fire than you would be commissioning work from BTP.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:04
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LuiCypher posted:This guy is a distaff cousin of everyone's favorite scrunt! I mean, just look at that face. I like that Karate Stance Union Soldier apparently has a chainmail vest on underneath his jacket.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:23
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LordAba posted:I know a lot of tabletop guys are spergs, but why hasn't anyone taken them to court yet? It seems like an open and shut case, and for 1500 it might be worth at least a consolation to see if you can get anything back after lawyer fees. I was going to say that most of them are probably out of state from wherever BTP is located (Utah I think?), and so probably can't afford to travel there to take them to court. But then I remember that these are mostly guys who spent hundreds if not thousands on their armies before spending a bunch more money to have them mauled by BTP, so maybe they just don't want to go to Utah.
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Dec 23, 2014 07:46
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I'm honestly not sure which was the worst/funniest "wargame-related company basically shooting themselves in the foot over and over again" moment this year: BTP's customer service debacle, or MWG hitching their cart to BTP's horse in the wake of said debacle, and basically getting dragged right on down with 'em (in terms of losing what little respect/credibility they had).
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Dec 25, 2014 07:06
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