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First off general disclaimer, I am not a lawyer so please do not construe any of this as legal advice. If you have questions about your specific situation, call your state bar and ask for Legal-Aid or ask for a list of Social Security Disability law firms, most work on a contingency fee and can give you answers for free. Now that we're past that ugliness, lets move forward. I'd like to talk about Social Security Disability. Why should I care about Social Security Disability? Beyond not wanting to see the sick and injured dying in the streets (which should be enough), Social Security Disability benefits account for about 140 billion dollars, or about 1600 bucks a household. It is paid out of your FICA taxes which comprise about 15% of your income. What is Social Security Disability? Glad you asked, it actually comprises quite a bit of different benefits and the words "Social Security Disability are often used interchangeably which just causes more confusion. Here are a few types: SSI: These benefits are means tested based on your household income which is in turn based on how many members are there between your spouse and children. Separated spouses can count as individuals but this typically requires an atty. There is no work credit requirement or any requirement other than means testing and medical. SSA determines whether you are disabled and you are awarded MediCAID and anywhere from around 700/mo on down to 0. Any earned income counts against it. People with Downs, severe autism, etc usually have this right off the bat. Children can get SSI but that's an entire field I'm completely unfamiliar with. SSDI: Based on work credits earned the same way Social Security retirement is earned, but with a time limit. Typically once you stop paying FICA (Assuming you are 31 and have worked a while) you have about 5 years to apply while you are still insured. Not everyone pays their FICA taxes. Some don't pay anything (Private contractors who only want to pay Federal income taxes) and some instead pay into an alternative retirement/disability plan (Usually state/city government employees and teachers and other union members that would rather manage their own money). Your SSDI benefits can expire and effectively become useless. Unlike SSI benefits they are NOT means tested. While you can't be working over 20 hours a week (really 10) or making over 1070/mo while applying, you can have a billion dollars in your savings accounts and it won't make a lick of difference, your SSDI payments are completely static. Your payments are based on what you paid in (Anywhere between like 500 and 2500) and come with MediCARE, a noticeable improvement from SSI. Widows: Essentially SSDI but you use your dead spouses credits instead of your own. Notably a very big win for gay partners who can now get married that makes a huge difference in surviving partners lives. Adult Child: Essentially you didn't have a chance to start working, so you apply using a parents credits. That parent must be SSDI, Widows, or SS Retirement. Well those sound simple enough, what is the process like? It's pretty loving rough. The first decision takes about 3-7 months from the time you submit your application. Roughly 2/3rds of people are turned down, and that number is fairly static (ie there's a solid chance the SSA specifically tries to maintain that number and not let it budge an inch). After the first step, you can appeal if declined. If declined, the appeal will take 3-7 months again. So now we're already averaging just short of a year. If your appeal (also known as a reconsideration) is declined, you then move to a hearing. It can take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years to get that hearing. then the judge will take up to 6 months to officially write their decision (and I do mean up to). Then they will award you benefits! Now you merely wait 1-3 months, and that sweet sweet government cheese begins rolling in. And in the mean time, you can't earn any real income. Hope your family is rich and caring! And of course you probably won't have loads of medical bills during that time, because what kind of medical bills could be accumulated by someone who has to apply for disability right? Wow, that sounds hosed It is. It doesn't get worse right? Well, pretty much at any point the SSA can re-evaluate you and determine on a whim you're not disabled based on lovely medical evidence. Then they'll turn right back around and put a lien on you for every dime they ever gave you. These evaluations often come without warning and without any honesty as to the intent. Some Dude with a quota posted:It took you four years to get on benefits, and you've only had them for two years, but we're going to want that 100k back. What is this thread for? Overall just discussions of Social Security Disability outside of SS retirement as well as debate over what changes would be effective if any at all would. I have a million suggestions but I'd hate to bog down the first post in them. mugrim fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 05:00
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For someone who probably should be on SSD, and who obviously has little to no income and likely some, if not a lot, of medical debt, how do you recommend even attempting this? I know there are big tent legal groups out there that will try to basically handle the process for you in return for backpay or something of that nature. Do you recommend them in general?
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Aug 28, 2014 05:24
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Berk Berkly posted:For someone who probably should be on SSD, and who obviously has little to no income and likely some, if not a lot, of medical debt, how do you recommend even attempting this? There are a whole lot of factors there, and it would be irresponsible of me to tell you what to do even if I knew those factors. If it was me, here is what I would honestly do: 1) Try to find an alternative job through my state's vocational rehab or someone who can work with me. This is not to diminish the struggle I or anyone else in that situation would go through, but to emphasize just how difficult SSDI can be to receive. If Voc rehab can't find you a job or anything then it's a much easier win if you do apply as they work directly with SSDI and can attest. 2) I would get the largest attorney within 100 miles if Voc rehab was unsuccessful. Attorney's work typically off a contingency fee (25% of your back pay or $6000, whatever number is smaller). If your atty does not have a salaried atty locally, they'll probably just contract someone elses locally salaried atty's. Do not get ANY atty who wants to charge you for anything (other than back pay) and absolutely ask up front. There are lots of firms that pay for medical record retrieval, sending you to doctors visits, etc and then bill the SSA for it when they win. I would not see a need to get one that bills me for anything. In general, atty's are often a successful way to go if you qualify for Dire need or Terminal status. Dire need means you're pretty much homeless, Terminal typically means if you are talking to me in a 24 months it would rightly be called a miracle (pancreatic cancer, stage 4 cancers, T cell well below 200, etc). Also, once you are over 50 years of age, the process does get much easier. This is part of why SS Disability is booming right now. It's jumped like 25 billion dollars a year overall in about 4 years. The population of old super obese people just under retirement age right now are beginning to fully come out of the work force in huge numbers. That combined with an economy favoring middle aged people without as many health problems. mugrim fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 05:41
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This is a link to conditions SSA considers "Disabling" Merely having a condition is not enough. Prior education, job experience, ability to retrain, etc are evaluated against what actually makes you disabled.
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Aug 28, 2014 05:45
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The process really can seem pretty random. I went through 3 years of apply-deny-appeal, got a (luckily free) lawyer who prepared me for the hearing, then two weeks before I was due to see the judge, I suddenly got approved. My girlfriend, on the other hand, got approved within 6 months of her first application.
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Aug 28, 2014 06:38
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I've been through this process (SSDI) before myself and done a fair bit of research, so I can shine a bit of light and expand a bit on some core principles. SSDI defines disability in a very specific manner. In order to be considered disabled, you cannot be performing what is known as "substantial gainful activity", which in 2014 means performing work that earns you more than $1,070 a month (if you're blind the number is higher) minus any impairment related work expenses. If you are approved for SSDI payments and begin making more than that monthly amount, you will lose your benefits after a trial work period expires. You may be eligible to receive back-paid SSDI payments if approved which is good given how long the process takes, but mugrim is absolutely right that you'd better hope you have family that can care for you in the meantime if you can't afford to cover your own. While there is an income limit there isn't an asset limit (unlike SSI) so at least that is a plus. Additionally if you are approved for SSDI you can sign up for Medicare coverage after a 24 month qualifying period (deducted from your SSDI payment) and even if you later become fit for work you can maintain that Medicare coverage (you'll be paying the premium out of your own pockets though). SSDI also offers work training and job placement opportunities for the disabled through the Ticket To Work program. Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 06:52
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I was just able to get SSI since my autism makes it almost impossible for me to hold a job right now or at any prior point in my life. Honestly though I think the only reason I was even able to get help was because I had letters from psychiatrists clearly outlining that with my current condition I cannot hold a job in any position I qualify for. If it weren't for that privilege I'd probably still have no stable income and I can see it being a hell of a lot worse for people in my situation without access to treatment and documentation. Even then it took about six months and multiple interviews. Also it's not enough to even help me out of the situation I am in at all. Basically it seems from my experience that even in the best case scenario it's a pain the rear end and the safety net is no safety net at all. Honestly, I'd change SSI to make it easier for disabled people to move ahead with their lives, which would include removing the idiotic asset limit, which stops me from meaningfully saving for the future when MAYBE I can hold a job. I think that providing easier access to psychiatric services for low-income individuals, through some sort of government run and funded system would also go a long way towards helping people who have it worse than I did.
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Aug 28, 2014 08:54
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There's a caveat to this you can actually recieve SSI and not be qualified for SSDI or Adult Disabled Child, basically if you become disabled before the age of 22 when your father or mother retire you can claim on their Social Security when it become available to them. I actually qualify for SSI and get it when I am ill , it's a ridiculous system and I'm constantly at this point dealing with them on a monthly basis as I work part time and trying to go back to school. However they deny that I am able to claim SSDI, on my fathers SS because of my (spotty at best) work history and the fact that I went to school and am in a training program with Illinois Rehab Services. So yeah the whole systems kind of loving wonky. The best advice I can give is get a lawyer and request information on a Disability advocate, they Government pays people and organization to be these and their really helpful for navigating the system.
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Aug 28, 2014 15:31
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Hi thread. I worked for a little under four years adjudicating disability claims in the state of Texas. I only ever handled initials and reconsideration claims, leaving right before my training would let me do the periodic disability reevaluations to see if people had improved or not at all. Mostly the job involved reading the applications, talking with claimants, requesting and obtaining medical evidence, typing up a summary and recommending a decision for doctors to give a quick thumbs up/thumbs down to. Depending on which direction you're looking at the program from you're going to see different faults. I certainly don't think the program was perfect, far from it (and probably in different ways than other people would see it), but depending if you're a working from w/in the bureaucracy, a claimant, a lawyer, someone working for a 3rd party non-profit, etc. your views are going to be colored a little differently.
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Aug 28, 2014 16:14
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There are certain things that can 100% be seen as objectively awful about the system by any person who is not a monster. 1) A wait time of 4-7 months for the first decision is ridiculous, especially when technically you're not supposed to be on unemployment before you apply and about two thirds of cases are shot down and have to be appealed (of which a huge amount will then be approved ANOTHER 4-7 months later). A hearing date after the second denial of 1-2 years is unconscionable. 2) Payouts - SSI is unlivable without outside help. SSDI is manageable for some, but for most it's still incredibly light. 3) Priorities - Like many things, SSDI is easier to get the richer you are and many offices deliberately obfuscate initial applications when 'helping'. I've seen it happen way too many times at the exact same offices to think it's a coincidence. Many people do not have any access to medical care so when an SSA employee asks for a Consultative Exam for conditions they know to be non-severe and ignore the disability at hand, it's pretty disgusting. 4) Overpayment/Cessation - It is loving criminal to re-evaluate people and find them not disabled after spending three years of their lives fighting for benefits. To then on top of that ask them to give you the money back when you know they can't work is that much worse. If you think someone defrauded you, take them to a criminal hearing and see how great your proof holds up when the deck is not stacked 100% in your favor. mugrim fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 05:45
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mugrim posted:4) Overpayment/Cessation - It is loving criminal to re-evaluate people and find them not disabled after spending three years of their lives fighting for benefits. To then on top of that ask them to give you the money back when you know they can't work is that much worse. If you think someone defrauded you, take them to a criminal hearing and see how great your proof holds up when the deck is not stacked 100% in your favor. Every other year my sister, who's on SSI, gets a letter saying they hosed up and overpayed her by x amount and now she owes some insane amount of payback. Then she has to go collect all her receipts to prove to some government agency that she has no means to pay it back. Also, I will never understand SSI's bizarre policies on assets. It basically penalizing anybody that tries to work their way off of SSI. Anybody that manages to save some of their piddly $800 a month living allowance should be applauded.
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Aug 31, 2014 06:51
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How long do you have to work to qualify for SSDI?
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Aug 31, 2014 10:37
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Lord Windy posted:How long do you have to work to qualify for SSDI? http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/credits3.htm Essentially if you're older than 31, it's required that you paid FICA 5 of the last 10 years.
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Sep 1, 2014 05:10
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mugrim posted:http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/credits3.htm On the face of it, this looks fair. I do think people who pay into FICA should get paid more but SSI is completely unlivable. Does America have something like Disability Insurance outside of SSDI? In Australia you have the basic Disability Pension of about $750ish a fortnight and if you were working when you became disabled, I think for any reason, you get a payout through your Superannuation insurance scheme (Superannuation is our compulsory Pensions. It's like a 401k). Mine was about $400,000 or I could take $2000 a month for the rest of my life. If I'm wrong I hope somebody corrects me.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:09
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Lord Windy posted:On the face of it, this looks fair. I do think people who pay into FICA should get paid more but SSI is completely unlivable. There are private disability insurers but they tend to vary from being much better to being much worse. Both in terms of payout and difficulty in getting approved. If you aren't paid in at all you can get supplementary income (SSI) based on your disability but it's like $600 at most and you need to be really broke to qualify
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Sep 1, 2014 07:39
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Let's talk about the other side of it: there are a few kinds of relatively legitimate systemic abuse that happen *after* you're eligible. I do a lot of work with people who are already on SSDI and these are some of the problems I've seen. The most prevalent I've seen are various forms of representative payee abuse. The idea behind the representative payee program is that some people on SSDI -- especially people with mental illness, brain injuries, or other similar conditions -- will also be too disabled to handle their money appropriately themselves, so they can choose someone else to be their representative payee instead. On the surface, that makes sense, and there is need for some kind of program. The main problems I see stem from two fundamental issues with the rep payee concept: the first is that many people who need representative payees don't have anyone in their lives who they can trust to act for them, and the second is that there aren't really any rules about conflict-of-interest. In practice, a large percentage of people on SSDI end up living in "assisted living" facilities or nursing homes, usually without much of any external support network. In such cases, it's not infrequent for the administrator of the home to become their representative payee, partly because there's nobody else to do it and partly because it's a lot easier for the administrator if they just get the checks directly, so administrators will pressure residents to make them their representative payee. The residents are supposed to be allotted a minimum "personal needs allowance" of $30 to $60 or so per month (the exact amount varies a bit by state), but if the administrator of the facility is also the rep payee, the administrator can just decide how to spend that money, too ("I think you need to spend your money on copayments for this long list of drugs my facility has a contract with the pharmacist to provide you"), leaving the recipient with no actual income at all (presuming they're even bothering to keep a decent, honest accounting of personal needs allowance payments). And then they can't buy things like toothbrushes or a candy bar or a taxi ride or a long-distance phone call to family. This also makes it very difficult for people to leave abusive facilities, because they either have to find a new representative payee and go through the process of asking the SSA to switch them over, or they have to appeal SSA to approve them not having a representative payee -- a process that can result in the re-evaluation of their eligibility for SSDI and even a loss of their benefits if they are found now capable. There are some private organizations who will act as an "organizational representative payee" for people, usually at the cost of what seems like a small fee -- $20 or $40 per month, which is a small fraction of the overall SSDI/SSI check. In practice, however, since many of these people are not receiving their whole check, but only their "personal needs allowance," that $20 monthly fee might be half or two-thirds of their actual discretionary income for the month. There are some programs that exist to monitor for possible rep payee abuse -- outright theft, for example -- but that kind of thing is a relatively small issue at least from what I've seen personally. It does happen, but it's the legal, systemic abuse that hurts and financially marginalizes far more recipients. It's just that nobody ever hears about these problems because the people they hurt are at the margins of American society and don't have the resources to make their grievances known. Hollismason posted:
Every state and territory has a "Protection & Advocacy for People with Disabilities" system, though it goes by different names in different states -- essentially legal aid for people with disabilities. For example, in New York it's http://www.disabilityrightsny.org/ , in California it's http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/ . If you're having problems with the SSA, including overpayments or other "I need a lawyer" issues, call the local P&A in your state. Calenth fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 12:56
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mugrim posted:2) Payouts - SSI is unlivable without outside help. SSDI is manageable for some, but for most it's still incredibly light. This can't be overstated enough. I work with severely mentally disabled individuals that all require SSI to live independently from their families. Most receive around $900 a month, with those that are able work earning slightly more. The average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment around here is about $1,400 a month. They can't save more than $2,000 so any sort of unexpected expense is a tragedy. This means they need to be supported by a dozen different agencies: supported living, SSI, housing assistance, food stamps, medi-cal, medi-care, regional centers, special needs trusts. There's endless time, effort, and money wasted on all the different federal, state, and county organizations squabbling over who is responsible for picking up all the tabs.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:27
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I'm basically disabled from birth but I was able to work for a friend for a few years, so when I got bad enough I couldn't even work for him, I didn't actually qualify as disabled from birth (or did I?), so I'm on SSI. I am so freaking terrified of what's going to happen when my parents die. I have 100k life insurance from my dad, so I could buy a house, but how the hell do you get by on $700 a month plus food stamps(less than $100)?
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Sep 3, 2014 02:55
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You can't earn more than 1037 dollars on SSI, that's gross. Not Net. Then they deduct 80 Dollars from what you own then 1/2 that is taken from your check. The maximum amount of money you can ever make is 1037 gross and gives you like a 200 dollar check each month. edit: You can keep drawing on your parents SSDI , it's called Adult Disabled Children, basically you can get SSDI if your parents paid into SS and are dead or retired. Look into it.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:06
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Adult child benefits are extremely difficult to get relative to SSDI, especially if you've ever worked over SGA. You have to be under 22. Also, if you have a parent on SSDI it is also possible. ClothHat posted:This can't be overstated enough. I work with severely mentally disabled individuals that all require SSI to live independently from their families. Most receive around $900 a month, with those that are able work earning slightly more. The average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment around here is about $1,400 a month. They can't save more than $2,000 so any sort of unexpected expense is a tragedy. I don't disagree with your point in general, but who do you know on just SSI who is receiving 900/mo? Current maximum is just about 720/mo. Are you sure you're not counting a state program on top of it, or a different program like Adult Child? I'm kind of surprised with the relative absence of posts. Is SS Disability not juicy enough for people? We have a ton of Libertarians on this board who I assumed would be all too happy to debate the merits of a disability program, and a ton of lefties I assumed would be outraged by the insane wait times. Anyone have any insight on this?
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Sep 3, 2014 23:12
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I reconnected recently with a friend who's on SSI/SSDI (not really clear which yet) and medicaid. She and her mother live together and are both on SSI/SSDI, but her mother was dropped from medicaid for some reason recently. She's been having some incredibly awful times with a re-evaluation, and she didn't approach me until she was way underwater. Furthermore she got a payment from social security which somehow made her ineligible for the private disability benefits she'd paid for (loving private sector scammers). From everything I've read I can help her monetarily with everything except food and housing without a penalty to her SSI. Unfortunately she was severely overdrawn and facing eviction so I paid her rent directly and setup paperwork to have it structured as a loan (so it shouldn't reflect on her income, I hope). I've been sending her gift cards under the table so she can pay copays for medication and eat something other than food pantry mac 'n cheese. What's worse is she went without a diagnosis for a long time, but she's effectively crippled. Without a diagnosis SSI refused to consider her disabled (as if someone would fake bi-polar disorder and being unable to walk). The whole situation is infuriating because of how stacked it is against her and her mother. I'm trying to help as much as I can, and I've got the means to do so, but I can't even help her through a rough patch without being super careful not to knock out her future benefits. Sorry for the ramble, but it seems like you need a PhD in social work to understand some of this poo poo. What is the best thing I could do to help her? Hire her a lawyer? Should I consider getting power of attorney over her to help more (she'd probably allow it). Unfortunately she lives about 1000mi away, so I can't help physically. I want to do what I can, and see her get the benefits she's entitled to. I just get so goddamned furious at the whole situation. Edit: Mugrim thanks for making this thread and supplying some good info, can you post some legit links to where someone can go to look this stuff up in plain english? Most of what I can find is outdated or trying to sell me something.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:56
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mugrim posted:
It's horrifying, but I know it makes me depressed and angry rather than just angry. It has that dint of the implacable, unchangeable, uncaring machinery of a system that can crush any objection. I don't know, maybe I'm projecting, but that's how I feel about it and I wonder if it's one reason why the thread isn't getting a lot of responses.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:57
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Calenth posted:Really good SSI / assisted living stuff Anyway, SSI is a pain in the rear end. Mental disability doubly so. The income and asset limits are stifling to put it politely. It's also VERY slow to get things changed. I gave notice to Social Security that Mom's paltry private pension kicked in back in February, and so far they haven't said anything back to us, they just keep putting the same deposits in her account. I'm just holding the money in her account until I get the inevitable "pay us back everything now" mail. OK, here's a bit of SSI bullshit situation that only a bureaucratic program created from myopic legislation could have created: Memory care is covered by Medi-Cal in California, but only in a skilled nursing facility*. These facilities generally start at $6000/mo. and are generally dealing with people with nearly no cognitive function. Memory care outside of skilled nursing costs half of a comparable skilled nursing facility, but is NOT covered by any government program, so that rent has to come from somewhere. Let's say I wanted to have Mom in a memory care facility that isn't a depressing shithole, and pay the difference that SSI doesn't meet. Whoops! That's a gift! Mom's now getting income! That means that they will instead pay her nothing. What? Aside from the fact that it'd be nice if they paid for what she actually needed to live rather than an arbitrary number, I can't see why they couldn't at least let family cover a portion of rent for something that she needs to live. Yeah, outside the scope of the program, whatever. It's still a poo poo situation. mugrim posted:I'm kind of surprised with the relative absence of posts. Is SS Disability not juicy enough for people? We have a ton of Libertarians on this board who I assumed would be all too happy to debate the merits of a disability program, and a ton of lefties I assumed would be outraged by the insane wait times. Anyone have any insight on this? * Yes, I am aware of the ALW program. It's limited in scope and doesn't cover the county, let alone the facility, in question. And I don't want to move her for e/n reasons and also because I don't want to deal with the ensuing panic attacks from the change. It's good to know that the problem is starting to be looked at, but it doesn't exactly help my specific situation. Kwyjibo fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 03:12
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mugrim posted:I'm kind of surprised with the relative absence of posts. Is SS Disability not juicy enough for people? We have a ton of Libertarians on this board who I assumed would be all too happy to debate the merits of a disability program, and a ton of lefties I assumed would be outraged by the insane wait times. Anyone have any insight on this?
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Sep 4, 2014 04:13
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mugrim posted:
I'm 55. I simply gave up on the whole system. It was so loving convoluted. I spent day after day interviewing and filling out and mailing forms away only to receive follow-up forms to fill out and mail back ad nauseam. It all culminated with a letter of rejection that brought me to tears. I've got years of diagnosed and documented mental issues. I have no left bicep and I am missing a ligament in my right elbow which basically renders both of my hands useless. I live by myself on the outskirts of St.Louis, Missouri. The system shouldn't be this difficult. Each time I would go to the Social Security office, I would sit and listen to those around me. Eventually I would overhear people discussing ways to screw the system. Or I would see overweight, illiterate women surrounded by screaming kids there to pick up there benefits. Their husbands would be waiting for them out in the car, usually in the passenger seat smoking their Kool Menthols. I could see the problem. My shoulders began to sag. A woman walked up and sat next to me. I usually wear slacks and a nice shirt, sometimes a sport coat. This woman told me that I was over-dressed. "You want help?" she asked, "You gotta look like you need help." Then she leaned in and said, "She those kids over there?". She pointed to 5 screaming, dirty kids over in the corner. "Two of those are mine, the other three belong to my husband's sister. Next week, when she comes in here, she stops by my place and picks up my kids. You gotta work the system, honey." I gave up. I can't fight it anymore.
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Sep 4, 2014 09:51
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Guy Fleegman posted:I'm 55. I simply gave up on the whole system. It was so loving convoluted. I spent day after day interviewing and filling out and mailing forms away only to receive follow-up forms to fill out and mail back ad nauseam. It all culminated with a letter of rejection that brought me to tears. I've got years of diagnosed and documented mental issues. I have no left bicep and I am missing a ligament in my right elbow which basically renders both of my hands useless. I live by myself on the outskirts of St.Louis, Missouri. The system shouldn't be this difficult. The DE will never see her kids, shes very wrong and working an old wives tale. In fact, if SSA discovered those kids were not hers they could claim she wasnt disabled by virtue of being a child care provider for the children of others which would mean she could work over SGA doing that. I have personally seen that happen several times by other dumbasses who have no idea what they are doing. There is no way to "screw the system". If you get approved and you should not have, you will get charged with overpayment and they will get their money back, and life will be hell for you. Also, never do it yourself. That is why you failed, it has nothing to do with what you think it does. As a 55 year old pretty much any lawfirm will take you gladly for SSDI since you are the easiest category to get approved. Whatever money you think you are saving by doing it alone is wrong. This is the equivalent of a hobbyist electrician wondering why their house constantly shorts and then thinking its the wire they bought. It is not. Get a professional before your credits expire, their prices are either free or 25% of your first check.
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Sep 4, 2014 13:32
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Guy Fleegman posted:Each time I would go to the Social Security office, I would sit and listen to those around me. Eventually I would overhear people discussing ways to screw the system. Or I would see overweight, illiterate women surrounded by screaming kids there to pick up there benefits. Their husbands would be waiting for them out in the car, usually in the passenger seat smoking their Kool Menthols. I could see the problem. My shoulders began to sag. Ironic, racist, self-destructive.
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Sep 4, 2014 14:26
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mugrim posted:I don't disagree with your point in general, but who do you know on just SSI who is receiving 900/mo? Current maximum is just about 720/mo. Are you sure you're not counting a state program on top of it, or a different program like Adult Child? For myself, I saw the culpability of the Democrats in dismantling welfare under Clinton, and I feel like they've never strongly taken up the banner again. Obama has been kind of okay, but he keeps focusing it in terms of work, which I think is strategically bad. Some people are going to just need welfare all their lives, and we as a society should be fine with that. Some of these are single mothers, others are just badly-educated, dirt-poor, in some depressed area. I personally support a guaranteed minimum income (along with a host of other stuff that'd have to happen to make sure that GMI was sufficient) but I feel we're politically light-years away from achieving that right now. There are very few Democrats, or even Socialists, championing the rhetoric of just taking care of people because it's the basically human and decent thing to do, instead it's cast into the mode of utility. Being cast as utility means that the arguments for the efficacy of it are a lot harder to sell, because people believe the counter-argument "Giving people money stops them looking for work" sort of innately, even though it's not true and dumb. So while I totally think that problems with SSD are important and that the lack of support is a crying shame, I also don't like the tying of support to disability in particular, because I think it gives away a large part of the argument. I'd rather argue from the position that our insanely wealthy country can easily support a basic GMI, which would also be an enormous boost to our economy. It is the harder sell, but I think that by getting stuck in "When is it appropriate or not to give social security benefits out" we will lose as often as we win and benefits will go back and forth between lovely-but-sustainable and frankly-you-can't-live-on-this.
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Sep 4, 2014 14:48
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I've got family members who have major, major disabilities, and just getting basic compliance with the ADA for education is horrible enough before you start fighting to ensure they get a decent education instead of the sort of neglect that means they don't get a diploma and are still doing third-grade math at the age of fifteen. I don't know how dealing with Social Security could happen for them without a hell of a lot of family support.
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Sep 4, 2014 15:09
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I can't help but feel like the problems with SSD stem from the same source as the arguments against a basic guaranteed income for the poorest class - both require that at some level one accepts that yeah, not everyone affected is going to use the money like a saint or even a respectable citizen who has 2.5 kids and a white picket fence, and not being able to declare that state of affairs acceptable and worth it to bring a decent standard of living to the disadvantaged leads to poo poo like the $2000 limit on money saved at once, reevaluations of disabilities when the disability in question is demonstrably permanent, and other such fuckery. e: beaten by Obdicut's much nicer post (and I seriously agree that GMI would be for sure the way to really fix a lot of poo poo, if it weren't for how tremendously difficult it would be to get that any kind of national traction). Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 15:12
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mugrim posted:I'm kind of surprised with the relative absence of posts. Is SS Disability not juicy enough for people? We have a ton of Libertarians on this board who I assumed would be all too happy to debate the merits of a disability program, and a ton of lefties I assumed would be outraged by the insane wait times. Anyone have any insight on this? Sure. 1) There are not a lot of libertarians on this board. There are some centrist liberals who get cast in that role and some trolls, but nobody who will say they think we shouldn't do SS Disability or gently caress THOSE POORS in a thread that isn't already terrible. You wrote a good OP about an important topic that is fairly technical and isn't intensely partisan. Unless you get Fishmech involved it will be dead in a couple of weeks.
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Sep 4, 2014 16:45
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This topic applies to me. I've been on SSDI for about 5 years. Been legally blind since birth so I'm technically receiving from my dad's working history, even though he applied for it (and received it) around the same time. It's not too terrible, I guess. I used the money to put myself in a relatively self-supported position (moved out of my house for a bit with some friends, paid rent and lived just like a normal working person) and the fact I'm legally blind means my SGA is nearly double, so I can safely work when I land a job (usually temp positions are the only ones that'll hire me). The OP made a point that working hours have something to do with that? Is that true? I've never seen that, only a dollar limit (SGA), and there was an 8 month period where I was working for CVS and sometimes had 30 hour weeks (that still came under SGA), and I've never been contacted by SSA about it. I filed my earnings on my taxes and everything. The nature of my disability, being legally but not totally blind, surprises some people since, on the surface, I seem totally normal until you ask me to read something from more than 5 inches from my face. I've had people tell me I'm gaming the system, even had some people (on Reddit/other internet shitholes, never real life) tell me I'm "the problem with the system" and should die quickly if I can't get hired. I actually do bring up my vision problems at interviews because A) it's easy to spot when they ask me to read a form and I have to look suuuuper close and B ) there's been times where "having reliable transportation" was part of the job posting, even though the job didn't need to involve driving at all, and I'd argue the point that public transport can still get me to their premises. There's been times where it has applied, like all the guitar teaching jobs that seem to demand you be able to drive to a student's house (I have a degree in Music and teach privately in my spare time, but joining up an established private school with administrative help in finding/keeping students would be excellent....if they all didn't require a car for some reason), and I just don't bother to apply. I'd like the extra pocket money, but sometimes when people find out I'm working AND on disability, they get mad. So I don't know what they want. If I'm working while on disability, I'm "cheating". If I'm not working while on disability, I'm "lazy". If I didn't take disability, my ability to get hired would be substantially lower than most in the first place. I choose to not give a gently caress and just live my life.
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Sep 4, 2014 17:11
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SeraphSlaughter posted:This topic applies to me. I've been on SSDI for about 5 years. Been legally blind since birth so I'm technically receiving from my dad's working history, even though he applied for it (and received it) around the same time. It's not too terrible, I guess. I used the money to put myself in a relatively self-supported position (moved out of my house for a bit with some friends, paid rent and lived just like a normal working person) and the fact I'm legally blind means my SGA is nearly double, so I can safely work when I land a job (usually temp positions are the only ones that'll hire me). The OP made a point that working hours have something to do with that? Is that true? I've never seen that, only a dollar limit (SGA), and there was an 8 month period where I was working for CVS and sometimes had 30 hour weeks (that still came under SGA), and I've never been contacted by SSA about it. I filed my earnings on my taxes and everything. Blindness has its own set of rules which you touched on initially and most of it is outside of my realm other than knowing that SSA has extremely strict standards on blindness relative to other organizations. The SGA I was referring to was specifically while filing for a non-blindness ssi or ssdi claim.
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Sep 4, 2014 17:22
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wateroverfire posted:Sure. Might be a good thread to move to ask/tell after discussion here dies down.
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Sep 4, 2014 17:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Might be a good thread to move to ask/tell after discussion here dies down. Yeah it'd probably do really well there. OP, can you comment on whether SS disability serves as a backdoor long term unemployment insurance? ie: whether there is a way for people who can't get jobs because there are none but otherwise aren't disabled to get into the system?
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Sep 4, 2014 19:38
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wateroverfire posted:Yeah it'd probably do really well there. I really don't know who that applies to though. There's a fuckload of insanely dangerous temporary jobs out there and they rotate often enough that non-disabled people will be hired at some point. Part of the issue comes down to how you define disability which is extremely difficult. This is why I prefer Minimum income. The wait time for SSDI claims are intense and it's amazing how much people freak about about VA care but 3 years to get approved for Disability (including for veterans) is just par for the course.
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Sep 5, 2014 03:52
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Lyesh posted:I think everyone is still posted out about the topic from that discussion spurred on by the geniuses at This American Life and their hitpiece on the disabled a year or so back. That's what made me interested enough to click on this thread. Anyone want to tell me if/why it is wrong or right? Here is a link for those interested: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/490/trends-with-benefits
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Sep 5, 2014 04:38
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OctaviusBeaver posted:That's what made me interested enough to click on this thread. Anyone want to tell me if/why it is wrong or right? Short answer: it's really suspicious that every single person Joffe-Walt interviews with negative connotations is black, and the single person who has a "legitimate" claim is white (the county in question is majority black). Let alone taking a retired white judge in that count at his word regarding something he's not even an expert in. For another specific problem, taking the phrase "pulling a check" regarding a child on disability as anything other than thinly veiled racism is ridiculously credulous for a journalist. That article is a hitpiece on the last vestiges of welfare in the US. She's concerning herself about how people aren't "incentivized" to work as though that's anywhere near as big of a problem as the long wait times or the problems that Calenth and Kwyjibo mentioned. It doesn't seem to have had much impact so far, but any that it does is more likely to result in disability benefits becoming harder to get and not being replaced with anything. Lyesh fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 05:01
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This is an interesting and relevant thread for me. I've been disabled all my life with high functioning autism, terrible anxiety and depression. I can't spend five minutes with two other people without getting tense, I can't answer the phone reliably, schedule changes at the last moment make me burst into fits, etc. I didn't get on disability until my early 20s because nobody in my family knew, and no one outside it ever tried to help us. My parents did their best to raise a disabled child, but I was their first and they had no experience, so when a social worked finally told us that we should apply for SSI/SSDI it was basically a complete shock along the lines of "We could do that?" To echo all of the other statements, it's a mess. I was lucky enough to be living at home still when we tried, so I had supportive family keeping me alive for the two years or whatever it took. I was turned down the first time, but after that my mental health car provide put forth her absolute best for the appeal. (This woman has probably almost literally saved my life several times in all the work she's done.) I was lucky because of her and didn't have to get a lawyer, but that was a hail Mary that kept it from happening. Waiting for those long periods to find out if I could ever receive support past my parents sure didn't help my panic attacks, I'll tell you that. I would love to work. I would love to find something I can manage and maybe eventually work my way off Social Security. Social Security sends me robo-calls about their Ticket to Work program. They sure are strict, though. There were a couple time in the past few years that I tried menial jobs. It never lasted more than a month or two due to the disabilities, but god dammit I wanted to try. I don't want to be a leech. (Not implying all welfare is leeching here, just mean that I would much rather support myself if I at all could.) Then months later I got letters saying I owed the government money over the couple hundred dollars I managed to make and they would be cutting it out of my future checks. Now, apparently part of this is that you're supposed to report income as it happens, but this is another case of "No one ever loving told me." Then there are those caps on how much money you can have, so even if I could slowly work into a part time job I can't actually save it up. I mean, sure I could keep a box of cash in my closet, but that's terrible for any number of reasons and can you imagine what would happen if Social Security somehow found out? I get about $1200 a month now that I've been classified as an adult disabled child or whatever. 700 goes to rent, another 100-150 (depending on electric bill) to my utilities. So I have about 300 dollars a month to feed/clothe/everything else myself. I make due, and I'm glad to have it, but there's very little breathing room and there's no way I can ever support having a car or a pet. If there was some sort of sudden emergency expense I would probably be royally boned. I live in constant fear of them saying I'm not disabled, and while I'd love to work I basically can't do it without shooting myself in the foot. I'm thankful to have SSDI, don't get me wrong. I wish I could try to learn a trade and eventually wean myself, but the system seems set up to prevent that from ever happening. Sorry if this is just a big E/N dump. I find this topic interesting and this is basically the first time I've ever told the internet about the struggle because I'm scared to death of how people could react. I can be eloquent, I can type and hold a conversation if I don't panic out, so a lot of people will think I'm not disabled, and I don't want to try and fight that pointless fight. A discussion I've had is that in some ways it's easier if you're blind or missing a leg or something than with mental health, though as posts upthread have shown it's still not anything like a free pass. With some mental health situations though, there's nothing to "show" unless you start hyperventilating at an interview. My advice for people in similar situations who are applying is this: Play up the bad. I'm not saying lie. Don't say things happen to you that don't. Fill out every form, answer every interview question as if it's one of your worst days, not an average one. Don't try to be optimistic. Paint as bleak a picture as you truthfully can. They can and will take any good thing you say as proof that you're not disabled.
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Sep 5, 2014 12:14
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OctaviusBeaver posted:That's what made me interested enough to click on this thread. Anyone want to tell me if/why it is wrong or right? The short quick answer is that it's an article written by an immensely privileged white girl who's so removed from the problem(s) she's trying to report on that fundamental, basic premises for the debate are presented as if they're huge insights. quote:At first, I thought Ethel's dream job was to be the lady at Social Security, because she thought she'd be good at weeding out the cheaters. But no. After a confusing back and forth, it turned out Ethel wanted this woman's job because she gets to sit. That's it. And when I asked her, OK, but why that lady? Why not any other job where you get to sit? Ethel said she could not think of a single other job where you get to sit all day. She said she'd never seen one. Lookit that white girl understandin' a thing. Look at it. You should shut the gently caress up, white girl! Shut up until you understand the problem a little better! More substantively, though, there are just a lot of problems with her reporting. quote:Since the series aired, experts have rushed to document the facts and urge corrections: the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities here, here, and here; the Center for Economic and Policy Research here and here; the Shriver Center here; law professor James Kwak here; Media Matters here; disability rights activists here; and legal services advocates here. Over 120 organizations have signed on to a call for NPR to retract the series, and to top it off, no less than eight former commissioners of the Social Security Administration wrote an open letter outlining their “significant concerns,” saying they “could not sit on the sidelines and witness this one perspective on the disability programs threaten to pull the rug out from under millions of people with severe disabilities.” http://jenniferlaurenkates.tumblr.com/post/47129642807/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-neutral-story-but-there-is quote:
http://jenniferlaurenkates.tumblr.com/post/47129642807/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-neutral-story-but-there-is Basically, it was a poo poo article, written by an ignorant shill, to attack programs that help the sick and elderly, for the benefit of the wealthy and powerful. There's actually a growing problem with NPR; due to long-term budget cuts it's becoming increasingly reliant on wealthy corporate donors, which is why it's started occasionally putting out articles like that one. See, e.g., http://ourfuture.org/20140608/the-koching-of-america-and-of-pbs-tia-lessin-of-citizen-koch , http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/has-npr-joined-peter-petersons-crusade-against-social-security-and-medicare , etc. Calenth fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 12:44
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