|
There were reviewers complaining about the low level cap? Low level caps are awesome. It's why the first Guild Wars was so goddamn cool. I mean, isn't it increasingly the case in online games that they don't really start until you hit level cap? Why would you want to delay that? (that said, even if a game is going to grow and evolve over time, it's still kind of lovely to release something that's blatantly incomplete and basically that gamesradar writer is saying we should all be happy that we bought what amounts to Early Access for Destiny without knowing it)
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 17:59 |
|
|
RottenK posted:its funny because even if destiny had way more content it's still be just a bland shooter that tries to be diablo No, it isn't. It's a bland shooter that tries to be Phantasy Star Online. Borderlands is the one that tries to be Diablo. Jeez. It's like you don't even know your instanced online action-RPGs or something.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
CharlestonJew posted:bungie said they were gonna turn this into a 10 year franchise right? off to a great start, good work Bungie Who knows, maybe it'll go all Assassin's Creed on us. First game shows promise but is incomplete and repetitive. Second game realizes the promise of the first one but takes steps away from what some people loved about the first, but remains a beloved game and a high point of the series. Series turns into a yearly franchise that plummets into remarkable shittiness, saved only by an installment whose only good parts had nothing to do with the groundwork laid in the first game anymore. And now an upcoming game that will "get back to the series's roots" or something. Point is what I'm saying is "Destiny 2" (whether that's a big MMO-style expansion or a true sequel) will probably own and then it'll start sucking harder with each one after that.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 13:40
|
|
|
SarutosZero posted:Its very strange that some of the worst parts of MMOs are being touted as the greatest parts of Destiny and everyone who doesn't get why they should think its amazing is dumb. Grinding for gear with higher numbers just so you can do a new dungeon that requires higher numbers to beat isn't cool gameplay. Just make the dungeon fun and challenging to begin with that gets easier as your skill with the game improves rather than it only being fun if your numbers are high enough. What's weird is that they actually have some pretty loving cool ideas in their raid. Why isn't there anything like that anywhere else in the game? Also, the exotic items are pretty good. They often change just enough about how that weapon type/your character abilities work that they feel special and which exotics to use becomes an interesting choice. So good work on those, Bungie! You successfully made MMO gear that isn't just about higher numbers. Most MMO developers still can't pull that off, so that really is something special. There are guns I want to get because of how they handle or armor pieces I want that change how, say, my grenades or my super ability behave. Cool! But then there's the Light system. Then you go ahead and implement that stupid thing. I thought it was a neat idea at first--max level is 20, but you can get above that level by equipping gear with the Light stat on it--but in practice it's pretty much just item level. Even worse, because of the way levels work in Destiny, it's an extremely rigid content gate. Bungie knew that skilled players could probably beat content five or more levels higher than their character, regardless of the stats on their gear, and to prevent that, they made level (and therefore Light level) super loving important. If you're one level lower than an NPC target, you do 30% less damage. Two levels lower, 40% less. Three levels, 50% less. Four levels or more? Can't even scratch them. So it's pretty loving obvious that they don't want you fighting enemies that are a higher level than you, like, at all, ever. But then they make it so you can go ahead and queue for strikes (dungeons) that are a higher level than you. And you can be matched with people who are the appropriate level for that strike and basically contribute no damage because your arbitrary level stat is too low. This ended up worsening the perception that bosses are dumb bullet sponges because players made the (very reasonable) assumption that if they're allowed into a strike they can probably complete it, and had no idea that the reason the bosses were taking twice as long to die as they should is because they were doing almost half damage. (Oh, yeah. The game doesn't tell you about the level-difference damage penalty.) I stick by my claims that Destiny has the foundation of a potentially really goddamn awesome game, but boy, oh, boy does it have a long way to go to get there.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
Truga posted:I was going to get this game if it ever came to PC, but now I don't think I will, holy poo poo. Why do people always take the worst thing of a genre when they try to mix them? I mean, if it helps, by the time it comes to PC there will likely have been a shitload of patches, balance changes, content releases, and hopefully a reevaluation of how levels work because it's really dumb. I wouldn't rule it out now, given that a PC release is still a good long way away and you'll have plenty of time to see if it's turned into something you want by the time it comes out there. I don't even know why I like playing it, though. The shooting feels nice. I like most of the guns and I think they actually did a pretty good job designing varied and desirable weapons and armor (Light notwisthstanding). But goddamn did they make some loving dumb decisions along the way. I'm rooting for the game to pull a Diablo III over the next year or so and reverse some of the stupider things that, thankfully, pretty much everyone seems to agree are stupid. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Sep 18, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 16:07
|
|
|
SarutosZero posted:This is terrible and is like the opposite of fun game design. I would like to see someone try and defend this system because it sounds really bad. And hiding bad arbitrary game mechanics that severely inhibit your ability to play without explaining it to you is even worse. Perhaps the most egregious part is that the raid that is gated behind this Light level grind is really cool. It legitimately requires a team of six skilled and coordinated players to beat. There are some creative mechanics, and it does a good job blending the MMO raid thing with satisfying FPS gameplay. Nice job, Bungie! Now imagine how sweet that would be if it really was just a matter of being a good enough team to pull it off. But no: you have to be both a good enough team to pull it off and have been playing for long enough to have enough Light to get into the raid and damage the enemies within. That's really frustrating! It's satisfying to work towards items that are unique, fun, and change how you play (exotics). If it was a matter of working toward the exotics that you feel you need in order to play the way you need to in order to beat the raid, that'd be really cool. And I love the way they designed the other three equipment stats, because they're all about cooldown reduction. It's not that Discipline makes your grenade do more damage: it lets you use it more often. Your numbers don't get higher, you just get to do more cool stuff, more often. I really like that! But Light trumps all. If you get gear with higher Light on it, it is unequivocally better, even if it has Strength on it and you really want a lot of Intellect so you can use your super more often. Too bad! Light is all that really matters.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
To be fair, I get why Light exists. Destiny follows an MMO-ish model (maybe closer to Phantasy Star Online), and that means the real content of the game is other players. So you want player retention: you want to keep as many people as you can playing for as long as you can, because it draws more people in and it's self-perpetuating. But content like maps, strikes, raids, and missions take time and money to develop, so you buy yourself time by gating the content that's already there. You basically make it so a player has to stick around a certain amount of time in order to play new content so that you have the development time to make more stuff for them to do after that. The problem with this in Destiny is that it's an action game, so level-gated content feels even more arbitrary--a very reasonable player might ask, "If I'm a good enough player to do this without higher stats, why can't I at least have a fair shot?" Add to that the rigidity of the level-gating and people chafe against it. (Again, I should stress that I play and enjoy Destiny and that I think it has the foundations to grow into something really great, but I just really hope Bungie knows how loving stupid some of their decisions were. This isn't even touching the utter lack of social features, too.)
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
SarutosZero posted:It seems like you could have accomplished the same 'keep skilled players around' thing by making the content actually more challenging instead of just numbers challenging. Have harder versions of the same dungeons you can do but with different trap, environmental, or enemy layouts instead. Make it so you can add modifiers to your dungeon run kind of like the skulls systems from halo games. Beating these things gives you cosmetic options, badges, or things that are neat and cool but aren't requirements to grind before you go to the next dungeon. That way everyone can experience the content as their skill progression allows but gives those who want a harder challenge an actual harder challenge instead of a numbers challenge. They actually have a lot of the things you mentioned. Harder versions of strikes often do have different enemy layouts, smarter enemies, and more aggressive enemies, and Nightfall versions have modifiers almost exactly like the skulls system from Halo. It's not extensively used yet, but it's there. Plus, the raid is actually, legitimately challenging, and would be so even without arbitrary level/number differences. It's very well-made. It's just all level gated, too. It's like they designed a really cool game and then someone said, "Yes, but MMOs have <design decision> so we have to, too." I agree with you entirely: having cosmetic rewards for extremely skilled players would be awesome, and including more and more of those skull modifiers, and have strikes that include some of the creative mechanics that the raid features. (Also implement voice chat for matchmade strikes, so that players can coordinate to do those cool mechanics, but that's on the "really anemic social features" side of things rather than the arbitrary level gating side of things.)
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
Schnedwob posted:ahhh, okay. that's slightly less lovely. I'm still wondering, though, why they thought it would be a good idea to negate 100% of the damage below a certain light level. like the half-damage sucks, sure, but at least you can still do stuff Light doesn't come in until you reach max level. It's ostensibly a way to level beyond the maximum (20), but in practice it's pretty much just MMORPG-style item level but only one number actually matters. It's a pain, but (to me, at least) it isn't a complete game-killer. Destiny is structurally a lot like PSO. If the idea of playing Halo mixed with PSO appeals, you could do a lot worse than give Destiny a shot. Just know that once you hit level 20, there'll be one stat that's inarguably more important than any other, and you'll have to start collecting tokens and increasing faction reputation to get legendary gear to increase it. (Don't worry--faction "grinds" in Destiny aren't steep at all and are only going to feel like a real grind if you decide you have to be raiding within a week of starting to play the game.) Do yourself a favor and don't try to farm for good drops--unidentified items in Destiny are even more of a gamble than they are in most other games. You should think of them as pulls on a slot machine, not as a reliable route to gearing up. Also PvP is a surprisingly good way to level quickly and gain good gear in the process. And honestly I do think it'll grow into a really great game eventually. If you feel like getting in on the ground floor of a game that's mostly pretty fun but hasn't yet explored most of its potential, go ahead. I'm still enjoying it, despite some of the stupider decisions Bungie made. My opinion may change if a month or two goes by and Bungie hasn't even acknowledged the lack of social features, but until then I'm overall fairly positive on it. I at least felt like I got my $60 worth already.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2014 19:56
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 17:59 |
|
|
Schnedwob posted:poo poo, this actually sounds pretty alright. If it ends up coming to PC I'll probably get it. Waiting for PC is a good call. I'd be willing to bet if there ends up being a PC version it'll come after a lot of the issues are ironed out, sort of like how the console versions of Diablo III came after the worst of that game's fuckery was dealt with. The core is there and it feels good to play, but it really does have a lot of work that needs to be done.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2014 01:39
|
|