Doctor Who series 8 (34): Oh shit it's INTO THE DALEK!!!!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who series 8 (34): Oh shit it's INTO THE DALEK!!!!

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Bicyclops posted:

I cannot read most of this thread right now, because I can't see Into the Dalek until tomorrow, but I just had to say that the end of Big Finish's Gallifrey Season 2 (Imperiatrix) is loving amazing. Gallifrey is a convoluted political drama, but goddamn if the end isn't very, very Doctor Who. If you're interested in listening to it, do yourself a favor and don't spoil it for yourself.

Since I finished this just before the lead-in to the new season, I didn't get a chance to post anything about it myself, but yes. This series is fantastic - in part, because it's essentially a spin-off of Neverland (and we all know how we feel about that), but also the way it combine Babylon 5-style Space Politics/Ancient Evil with classic 70s Who Ham.

Season two is an unabashed remake of Zagreus. And against all odds, they do it right this time.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 07:24

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 18:00

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

DoctorWhat posted:

Rob Shearman doesn't do TV. Moffat's had trouble getting Doctor Who through production as it is and he made like 5 very successful shows beforehand - Rob's written maybe six episodes of TV in his life.

I say this as the biggest Shearman nerd on this forum - Rob does his best work on Who when he's dancing along the edges, twisting iconography and engaging in his brilliant weirdness. He can't be the one writing regeneration stories and straightforward midseason romps, his talents and creative genius simply don't lie in that direction.

His influence on Doctor Who persists and grows even though he hasn't done a Who story since 2007 - Into the Dalek played with themes from Jubilee that Dalek didn't, for instance.

It's enough to give me hope that we might be entering a real �post-Shearman� era of Doctor Who writing. It seems to be about that time, around 10 years after he �made his mark� on Doctor Who.

If a near-future episode engages with the themes of history or tradition in the way that Jubilee and The Holy Terror did, respectively, I think it could be said with confidence that Rob's Doctor Who work has reached sufficient saturation in the creative consciousness of Who writers to begin influencing future Who in the same way that David Whitaker or Robert Holmes has done.

Which would be pretty much the best thing ever,

I wish I could see more Shearman in recent Who. But when I hear his work, the thing that stands out the most is his characterization and commentary on the human condition, neither of which fit the rapid-fire pace of the current series or its intense focus on defining the title character. Much as we all love the line (which feels more like an RTD-ism than Shearman), it doesn't mean anything to point out that the Doctor is similar to Daleks. And it's easy to argue against the concept since he's a fictional character whose existence is defined by the media we're currently experiencing - in no iteration of the Doctor can you see the Daleks' central idiom: not their destructive tendancies, but their xenophobia. The whole series is about the Doctor going places and meeting new beings.

No, what makes Jubilee so special is that it reminds us those are tendencies we see in ourselves, by taking the culture of the (relatively) recent past and letting it stay dominant for a century. Occupation, subjugation, genocide... that's what we do. And even Daleks don't torture for pleasure.

It's a tough line to walk, but drawing the characterization from our recent past keeps the story from falling into the exaggerated meanies you see in a lot of "humans are the real monsters" stories. Toclafane, anyone?

The other thing that makes Shearman stand out, and the reason he'd never work as showrunner, is his need to gently caress with the Doctor Who format. Obviously I don't need to say anything about Scherzo, but even things like his choice of companion in Holy Terror or the fake opening of Jubilee leading into the story's total rearrangement of the Doctor Who story structure... it's easy to see why he's only done a few, it must be extremely draining.

We haven't seen a lot of that kind of shakeup, though. Remember the all the grumbling about how "Moffat" Deep Breath was? Things have gotten very formulaic, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 22:53

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

thexerox123 posted:

Hartnell/1: Grumpy, cynical grandfather.

Only in the first couple stories. By season 2, he's a staunch anti-authoritarian who deals with problems by causing chaos and mischief. So basically a geriatric, moralistic Bart Simpson.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 22:58

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

MrL_JaKiri posted:

That's a bit rude as Cartmel's taking the Doctor in a darker direction as part of the Masterplan is the only reason why the second best Seventh Doctor story isn't loving Dragonfire

Exactly, it's what gave us the 180 from Sylvester's lunatic first season into one of the most beloved eras of the series. And I think a lot of the dumber elements would have ended up being cut if they'd gotten to continue the series.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 13:43

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Plavski posted:

Idris Elba was being bandied around seriously for a while and it was really cool.

The only way they'd be able to make that work along side him playing James Bond would be to cut the budget for both down to "tin foil and bubble wrap" level.

:getin:

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 13:45

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Burkion posted:

How is that the only one you can think of? I mean it's not a bad one I guess, but come one-I mention the Three Doctors by name.

Omega definately counts.

So does Sutek for that matter.

And I wouldn't want one to show up all the time- it just makes for a VERY interesting dynamic when the Doctor has to tread VERY lightly. Let's us see him at his absolute best.

Let's not forget the Gods of Fraggle Rock!

But yes, the Pyramids of Mars approach of "stop the villain from getting in the direction of what they want, because once they have it everything is hosed forever" is a good way of keeping the stakes high without making the Doctor omnipotent.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 02:07

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Crazy Man posted:

I started watching the Leisure Hive tonight. I'm going to try the one episode/day thing, see how that works out (I typically watch at least two parts of a Classic serial per night).

So far it seems...interesting. The atmosphere seems very reminiscent of the atmosphere in the h2g2 tv series which happened...probably about the same time. In fact, I think I might have heard the exact same piece of music being played...

Leisure Hive is definitely a fun watch. It was JNT's first serial, and he wanted to make a mark, so he brought in a director who cinematographied the poo poo out of everything, throwing shooting way behind the limited schedule they were allowed and getting JNT chewed out in the process. It doesn't look like any other classic Who, and it's a change to see something shot with that kind of complexity.

Story-wise, it's a pretty major jump from the silliness of the last televised story (Lord Nimon? Lorrrrd Niiiiiiimooooon?!) and makes an effort to show the individuality of different alien characters.

Then you're off to "The Doctor is impersonated by a shape-shifting space cactus", so... enjoy that, too.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 04:06

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

MrL_JaKiri posted:

BONG

Jerusalem posted:

He said Idris Elba as the Doctor is near!

http://youtu.be/zySRb5tjEF4

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 13:32

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Re: State of Decay and it's high-tech-decayed-into-dark-age, I want to make a comparison with the Gormenghast series by Mervyn Peake. Set in the titular remote earldom the book describes a very stilted society where everything is run according to ancient tradition and it only takes the introduction of a single chaotic element - a kitchen boy called Steerpike, played very well by Jonathan Rhys Meyers in the BBC adaptation which you really should try and see - to completely destablise the entire society. The books sort of follow the life of Titus Groan, latest heir to the earldom, and him growing up in this chaos followed by, in the third book, him striking out on his own and finding out that Gormenghast is a unique backwater in an otherwise modern and industrialised world which is then also revealed to be awful for different reasons.

There was a lot of this stuff going around when I grew up in the eighties (The Mysterious Cities of Gold, even The loving Gummi Bears managed to do this kind of story with maturity and style) but from the E-space Trilogy through to Logopolis and Castrovalva this era of Doctor Who really nails it.

One thing it really brings is, as DoctorWhat says, hope. Gormenghast is very well written but the only agents of change in society are attempting to bring it down rather than raise it up. Learning being a weapon against tyranny isn't even subtext in State of Decay, it's explicitly stated.

Goddamn it JaKiri, how can you love Gormenghast and hate Deadly Assassin?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 04:22

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 18:00

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Requestion a Troughton, uh, request; got one from each of the other Doctors.

The Two Doctors :colbert:

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 13:10

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who series 8 (34): Oh shit it's INTO THE DALEK!!!!