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Obama blamed them for it and said there was evidence. EDIT: I reread his statements. He said there was evidence it came from rebel controlled territory and blamed the seperatists, who were being armed by the Russians. I guess that's not quite the same as saying Russia did it. Flocons de Jambon fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Feb 25, 2016 |
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Feb 25, 2016 10:57
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Flocons de Jambon posted:Obama blamed them for it and said there was evidence. Obama thinks that he can hold that out on Putin to get concessions from him over... Something. I don't know, Obama is a bit of an idiot when it comes to realpolitiks.
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Feb 25, 2016 11:11
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Friendly Humour posted:Obama thinks that he can hold that out on Putin to get concessions from him over... Something. I don't know, Obama is a bit of an idiot when it comes to realpolitiks. In the end Russia can deny it no matter how much evidence is brought up. Russian civil society isn't free or robust enough to hold their government accountable and there aren't any international institutions that can do it either. Obama can blame Russia directly and constantly bring it up - but there wouldn't actually be anywhere to go with it. Assigning blame only works if people accept the concept of responsibility and there's civil institutions that can do something about it. If your goal was to antagonize Russia then that's a thing you could do but that's all it would do so it's not really constructive.
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Feb 25, 2016 11:47
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TheFallenEvincar posted:The Russian social media propaganda/troll comment army/online psyops effort is really quite successful, isn't it? I marvel at how often I see people willing to swallow the Kremlin's story hook, line, and sinker because they're AMERIKKKA leftists or Obama-hating right wingers. It serves so many people's deranged purposes. Also really people shouldn't focus on internet comments about the case. These communities are all dumb and there's no value in searching through them unless you're on a mission to find people you want to get mad about. It's more interesting to see Russian reactions to this honestly and also how actual governments/journalists/forces see it, the rest is white noise. I appreciate your work Brown Moses.
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Feb 25, 2016 12:00
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Yeah, it's a case of "everyone knows they did it but there's no profit in acknowledging it".
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Feb 25, 2016 12:01
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Baronjutter posted:I accidentally went on reddit and read the comments for Brown Moses's latest report. Hollllly poo poo. Not a single person actually had any criticism of the report, it was just pages and pages of "lol unemployed something awful moderator" "doesn't have needed credentials, didn't read lol." Out of hundreds of comments not a single one mentioned any of the content of the report, nothing attacked the evidence or methods. Just "not real journalist" over and over and over with the occasional dash of "paid nato propagandist" Well, it's Reddit. Of course it's full of idiots. In fact, I would be surprised if they actually did something not idiotic. Also, the German media likes your new report, Brown Moses.
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Feb 25, 2016 12:28
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Work is closed today due to the blizzard currently raging outside. I have time to work on a new thread. Suggestions to add to the OP and thread names?
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Feb 25, 2016 12:35
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Eastern Europe: You'll end up like Hitler
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Feb 25, 2016 12:46
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Eastern Europe: In Nazi Russia, Threads Post You e: On second thought, that sounds a bit too meme-happy. Fake Witnesses, Fake Missiles, Fake Victims? anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Feb 25, 2016 |
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Feb 25, 2016 12:52
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Libluini posted:Well, it's Reddit. Of course it's full of idiots. In fact, I would be surprised if they actually did something not idiotic. We had really good coverage in Germany and Holland plus loads of Russian language press. https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/702799695639416832
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Feb 25, 2016 13:04
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Brown Moses posted:The way I see it, any country that produces the solid evidence Russian was responsible is basically going to poison diplomatic relations with Russia for years. How could the EU work with Russia while they still deny they killed 298 people despite solid evidence being presented by their allies, or even a member of the EU. Which Dutch leader would allow themselves to be seen to let the EU move on from MH17 if that sort of evidence was made public by a government? You just have to look at Syria to see how Obama treats foreign policy, he's not the sort of leader who is going to drop bombshells like that. The state of the world is rather depressing innit? Keep up the good work BM.
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Feb 25, 2016 13:12
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So the Russians are bitching on RT about Ukraine's choice of song for the Eurovision, which is about the plight of the Tartars during the soviet era. Copious amounts of all the usual rhetorical devices used thought the piece, especially lots of good old whataboutism. Normally I wouldn't consider this newsworthy, but the sheer volume of whining over hurt feelings is just too delicious to ignore. https://www.rt.com/op-edge/333580-ukraines-song-europe-jamala/
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Feb 25, 2016 13:14
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quote:It's not homonazi if the spheres don't touch Old underappreciated joke for a brand new thread.
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Feb 25, 2016 13:18
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Stuff happening in Minsk today: "Putin, Medvedev, Matvienko in Minsk, Naryshkin - in Vienna. Who's left to lead the country? https://twitter.com/dimsmirnov175/status/702857976378482689  Just noticed Lukashenko has two flags, but Putin only got one. HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Feb 25, 2016 |
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Feb 25, 2016 15:23
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steinrokkan posted:So the Russians are bitching on RT about Ukraine's choice of song for the Eurovision, which is about the plight of the Tartars during the soviet era. Copious amounts of all the usual rhetorical devices used thought the piece, especially lots of good old whataboutism. Normally I wouldn't consider this newsworthy, but the sheer volume of whining over hurt feelings is just too delicious to ignore. I agree it's a bad choice, it should be about the plight of the Tartars during the Putin era.
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Feb 25, 2016 15:23
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Brown Moses posted:Which Dutch leader would allow themselves to be seen to let the EU move on from MH17 if that sort of evidence was made public by a government? Your unfortunately overestimating the resolve of our politicians. It's pathetic how they're letting this slide so far. The plight of a small nation I guess. Imagine if they killed 200 American civilians instead.
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Feb 25, 2016 15:46
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Disco Infiva posted:Old underappreciated joke for a brand new thread. it was thread title, I'm satisfied.
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Feb 25, 2016 15:55
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Discendo Vox posted:it was thread title, I'm satisfied. It actually never was a thread title 
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Feb 25, 2016 15:57
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Thread title could use an update, imho
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Feb 25, 2016 16:10
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Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis
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Feb 25, 2016 16:30
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Baloogan posted:Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis Yes, this one or the "its not homonazi if the spheres don't touch one please.
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Feb 25, 2016 16:33
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Eastern Europe: beware Dmitry Anatolevich Putin
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Feb 25, 2016 16:46
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Baloogan posted:Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis 
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Feb 25, 2016 16:56
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I'm pretty sure it was a thread title at some point, I'm not that clever...
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Feb 25, 2016 16:57
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Baloogan posted:Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis I think we have a winner.
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Feb 25, 2016 17:41
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Disco Infiva posted:It actually never was a thread title It was a thread title, it was my joke. That said: Eastern Europe: Brown Moses goes BUK Wild
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Feb 25, 2016 18:55
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Discendo Vox posted:Eastern Europe: Brown Moses goes BUK Wild
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Feb 25, 2016 19:02
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Discendo Vox posted:
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Feb 25, 2016 19:31
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Speaking of Buks, the Dutch Safety Board published its responses to the Dutch Parliament and Russia's questions on their MH17 report, which included this letter https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/702843515093516288 We've also put a piece on Bellingcat highlighting the most interesting parts, most of which just make it really really clear an SU-25 wasn't involved.
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Feb 25, 2016 19:41
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Baloogan posted:Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis Discendo Vox posted:Eastern Europe: Brown Moses goes BUK Wild Both of these are good.
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Feb 25, 2016 19:48
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Oh, new thread title. I was about to post as stuff happens in Poland but it's usually depressing stuff
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Feb 25, 2016 20:06
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A sound decision- the Poland pis one is much timelier(also funnier).
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Feb 25, 2016 20:29
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Reddit Nutpicking posted:Eliot Higgins is a retard. He's a failed lingerie salesman with no education nor experience. Only on reddit and twitter would a guy like him be listened to on any subject. quote:It's not about believing what Putin says. I'm Russian and I do believe that we had a hand in bringing the plane down, most likely indirectly by providing the Donbass militants with a BUK. It's also possible that the crew behind the BUK was straight-up Russian military. Regardless of who exactly did it, it was obviously done by mistake. (links elided) This is great. Most of the posts wern't so bad though, the voting system is actually WAD in that thread. Probably due to sheer volume.
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Feb 25, 2016 20:58
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Irony is my wife hates Erdogan and doesn't care at all about foreign policy. Meanwhile, we've had our first official response from the Russian MoD quote:The Russian Ministry of Defense has issued an official response to our report on the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade: "Not one anti-air missile complex fielded by the Russian army has crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border." If that's the case you have to wonder where these Pantsir-S1 appeared from, not used in Ukraine, but somehow they appeared in Ukraine. Weird!
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Feb 25, 2016 21:18
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It's not weird at all, the response clearly states more than one AA crossed the border.
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Feb 25, 2016 21:27
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Brown Moses posted:Meanwhile, we've had our first official response from the Russian MoD This is good news 
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Feb 25, 2016 21:37
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Hah, there's morequote:Russia’s Defense Ministry rejects new MH17 report by Bellingcat. Moscow puts its trust in ‘bloggers and experts’
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Feb 25, 2016 21:46
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Brown Moses posted:Irony is my wife hates Erdogan and doesn't care at all about foreign policy. This is something I find a lot of people (specially from poo poo countries) can't understand. Your country/nationality is your team and you always cheer for your team, you are loyal to your team. If a Canadian says something bad about russia, don't address the criticism, ignore it and bring up something bad Canada did. Everyone is obviously mindlessly biased and defensively loyal to their nationality so anyone slinging criticism is just playing a game of nationalistic one-upsmanship. I've had nationalists that apparently hate my nationality get more upset I won't defend bad things my country did and in fact condemn them than they did with the initial argument. How can I have no patriotism? My country must be terrible and bad if it's not even worth defending in an argument. So many people in the world can't separate their personal identity and ego with their national identity and ego, or separate their national/cultural identity with the country's current political leadership. They're all one inseparable package that makes any sort of honest discussion impossible. Not only is the idiot nationalist unable to have an intellectually honest conversation, he assumes everyone else is just like him so everyone else is just as dishonest as him.
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Feb 25, 2016 21:48
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Brown Moses posted:Hah, there's more "Repeatedly been debunked" is exact same empty phrase certain drones post
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Feb 25, 2016 22:14
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Eastern Europe: 'cat fool can't beat RUS memes edit: um, I hate to raise the possibility, but could the report release and BM's association with the forums be related to the spate of DDoSes?
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Feb 25, 2016 23:27
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