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sparatuvs posted:Not only are they well trained, they also make quality music videos complete with explosions and karate kicks. I remember when this came out. I couldn't believe it was not a parody. I am still not entirely convinced.
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Sep 4, 2014 23:44
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Yeah, sending dudes into a literal proxy war kills people, this is not an unexpected outcome to anyone.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:53
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Finlander posted:Especially when the dudes you're using are literally terrorists that torture and slaughter civilians by the thousands. ...see, this is not well documented as far as I know. Obviously there are atrocities going on, but that's part of war - is there anything (beyond instigating an unnecessary war to begin with) that points to the separatists++ being particularly vicious? I mean, by the standards of intercine warfare etc
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Sep 5, 2014 17:58
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Zudgemud posted:Well, if spies or undercover agents are to be held to the same "government representative" standard as for example cops or elected politicians is debatable, spies or undercover agents are totally valid targets for secret services either due to perceived national interest or suspected criminal activity. If he was abducted from Estonian soil it would of course be more of a violation, but if it was on Russian soil I would not blame Russia for taking interest in a potential spy from a neighboring NATO country in the current situation. Maybe he is something of an undercover agent with no intent of spying on Russia, or maybe he is a spy that might know something sensitive, in any case they deemed him important enough to warrant an abduction. Or someone at some level of the FSB command structure felt like sending a message. I think that seems more likely, to be honest.
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Sep 5, 2014 18:06
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Majorian posted:I'm not so sure of that. Russia is definitely taking an economic hit from it right now, but the fact that neither Ukraine nor Georgia are likely to join NATO after this, and Ukraine is probably going to be hobbled by this crisis for a long time, are definitely in Russia's long-term interests. They may be perceived as a pariah right now, but relations with the rest of the world normalized pretty quickly after the war with Georgia. I don't think it will take long for the same thing to happen here. Largely because powerful states like the US need Russia's cooperation to pursue their own interests. Georgia was a really different situation, though - Russia had a very solid cause for war and were arguably in their full rights to do what they did in the situation, and didn't just outright seize land. Both of those are fairly important, I feel.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:02
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jaete posted:I wish I could believe any promises anyone makes will make Russia less belligerent. You've got to start somewhere. At this point, Russia is starting to behave like a complete rogue agent, and one with the power to destroy human civilisation as we know it. It's a pretty frightening prospect, and one which must be contained somehow. Military containment and further marginalisation is unlikely to be fruitful (and could very well just lead to further insularity on part of the Russians), so we pretty much have to start talking, and do so in earnest. This whole situation is hosed up on all sides (particularly Russia, of course), and there's no good way out of it. It may even be necessary to give Putin a win here, painful as that sounds. Russia must be reintegrated into the existing world order, or we're all worse off.
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Sep 6, 2014 21:58
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:I have already said it: Destroy Russia's economy. Let it collapse until it is too weak to cause any more harm. this is an incredibly bad idea for like a million reasons
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Sep 6, 2014 23:30
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Gimmick Account posted:I don't know about that - Now that Pandora's box has already been opened, you might as well go for the option that better curtails Russias ability to exert its poisonous influence abroad. You're not going to get a cooperative, inward-focused Russia at this point (since Putin has clearly realized that his new strategy is working and the Western political elite doesn't have the inclination to respond), so you might as well do your best to make sure you're dealing with a weak, hostile Russia, rather than a strong, hostile one. A "weak" Russia is still a Russia with enough nuclear firepower to end civilisation, and one in which ultranationalists are going to be stronger than ever and raring to go. Even discounting the severe suffering that would occur in Russia itself in a situation where the economy is even more in the shitter than it is today, we do not want bona fide nazis with that kind of capability.
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Sep 7, 2014 00:09
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...well, yes? I don't quite see your point, to be honest.
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Sep 7, 2014 00:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:Look, we were willing to supply stingers to the taliban once before. I doubt it'll be for nevermore. Let the Europeans deal with radicalism however they want; they're sovreign nations. Don't invade them to 'protect our ethnicity' when they do. american support for the mujahedeen in the eighties was one of the most bone-headed back-at-ya moves in modern political history are you trolling
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Sep 7, 2014 00:47
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have you ever seen a map of Ukraine it is not a dense mountainous desert/jungle landscape with ample opportunities for hit-and-run attacks and hidden bases and the like jesus christ i feel dumber even typing that, cool down you idiots
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Sep 7, 2014 00:52
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jesus christ shut up
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Sep 13, 2014 21:51
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^^There is absolutely no indication that Putin wouldn't simply up the stakes again if NATO tried anything like that. loving Yeltsin was willing to directly confront NATO troops in the Serbian conflict, and Putin is much less agreeable than Yeltsin was. Y'all who are comparing this to the run-up of WWII, I think you're dead wrong - what this is looking like is increasingly a WWI-type of situation, but with nukes. Everyone's so sure that nobody's dumb enough to go to war, so they feel perfectly safe in banging the drums. And then we all get blown the gently caress up because leaders didn't want to blink. Also, Finlander, please stop being so goddamned hysterical. It is incredibly tiresome.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:14
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Finlander posted:Furthermore, there's also a bunch of pacts and unions, namely NATO and the EU, in place, where one country in either one getting in conflict with Russia or whoever will pull everyone in. Although the western leaders are so unwilling to really act hard against Russia that I'm not really sure they're the ones banging drums here. You have to admit there's some eerie similarities to WWII, though. Oh! Western leaders are hardly banging any drums at all. They're keeping their heads down and imposing modest sanctions, which I think is the correct way to deal with this until Putin's hand can be neutralised in some more permanent manner (energy independence is a big one). What I'm talking about is the general attitude itt and in certain circles I move in on a day-to-day basis, which I think is dangerous. I see no sane way of resolving this round without Putin winning. This doesn't mean that he can't be outmaneuvered in time, but it does mean that we may have to accept defeat in this case or risk terrible consequences. Basically, the Ukraine is a warning sign - Russia must be neutered in some way, preferably without playing too much into their national persecution complex. Playing Putin's own game does not seem like a good idea at all.
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Sep 21, 2014 18:47
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Discendo Vox posted:Mightypeon is trying to confuse the issue, which is that he's referring to the Ukrainian government as "Kieveans" (or Kyivans, idc) instead of as Ukrainian in an effort to diminish their apparent legitimacy. Eh. Talking about the Sudanese conflict you'd hear about "Khartoum is doing X" all the time. It's not uncommon in a full-scale civil conflictlike this.
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Oct 6, 2014 00:25
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Leo Showers posted:hahaha what seriously it is identical to that whole "collateral damage" bullshit spouted by the US and friends not that this makes it any better, mind, it's just that "terrorism" should probably be intentional attacks against civilian infrastructure in order to induce, you know, terror. of course, the term is really watered-out these days, so you're bound to find some use of the term that fits basically any definition
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Oct 10, 2014 01:08
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Obdicut posted:My apologies, it's actually Norway: Just a heads up here, while Roma are associated with begging, begging as an activity is not especially associated with Roma, at least in my circles and from what I've read in the debates. So, if people are ragging on the Roma, they'll mention begging, but if they talk about begging they'll generally talk about junkies &c. So while this is a really problematic law, it's not really specifically anti-Roma as such.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:00
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why does a dead Soviet marshal have a twitter account i feel so old
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Nov 1, 2014 13:21
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