Neophyte posted:

Give the guy a break! All he's saying is that if it's a legitimate invasion the body politic has ways to shut that whole thing down.

A Pale Horse posted:

Is that really so surprising? No one wants to see themselves as "soon to be dead military adventurist #1035".

In Poland news, PO finally passed a resolution about in vitro fertilization, making it available and regulated and boy is our right wing/Catholic church pissed. PiS campaign manager already said that as soon as PiS get into office they're going to rescind it because it contains provisions for freezing unused embryos and also allows people in civil partnerships (theoretical only for now since there's no such thing) to make use of them as well. In slightly related news I'm taking up German as a fourth language.

Friendly Tumour posted:

The immigrant crisis is the reckoning Europe has to face for embracing tolerance. We're either going to have to abandon it and go by the way of Hungary and Russia in our values, or accept the fact that there's going to be a lot more Muslims around here. The only way to dissuade people fleeing violence, is more violence. And I don't think that's a price worth paying for some semblance of ethnic stability.

Iowa Snow King posted:

It probably is this, but I think the more immediate cause can be traced to the neoliberal policies of the last thirty or forty years, where functioning third-world states have dissolved into "developing" and "emerging" markets.

jonnypeh posted:

I'm not sure what you mean with these words, those countries have almost always had corrupt kleptocrats in power, whose chief concern is enriching themselves and elevating their own tribe or nationality above others. Unless this is also somehow the west's fault.

e: well, the former colonial borders translated into national boundaries today are the west's fault, so that's that.

Gantolandon posted:

This argument, however, won't work in Eastern Europe, because most of the countries here didn't even exist as sovereign entities, let alone participate in destabilizing the Middle East. Hungary, for example, was a part of Austro-Hungarian empire (which pretty much meant doing what Austrian elite wanted) until 1918. Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland didn't even have that sort of autonomy, they were straight out subjugated minorities until the end of WW1. They also all became Soviet satellites 25 years later. None of these countries was ever influential enough to throw their weight in Africa or Asia and now they are asked to fix the mess caused by the nations who actually benefitted from colonialism. Some of whom either actively hosed them over and kept subjugated.

jonnypeh posted:

Care to give some examples? Both those who would work for the national benefit and kleptocrats supported by the west, in today's Africa and South America.

Historically it isn't hard to find examples: Chavez had plenty of oil and now his country is in ruin, Mobutu Sese Seko was rather infamous. That's two that I can think of.

Plan Z posted:

Has anyone read Zaloga's new T-64 book yet? I'm curious to see if it's got a few hastily-stuffed-in chapters regarding Ukraine, because the modernized versions were held in high regard even up to the current conflict. Must be why I'm seeing more pictures of UAF forces training on T-80BVs.

my dad posted:

edit: Croatia escalated further by banning the entry of all Serbian citizens.

kalstrams posted:

In a surprising turn of events, exit polls in Belarus show victory of Lukashenko with 80-84% of the vote at 81% turnout.

sparatuvs posted:

Plan Z posted:

Got Steven Zaloga's book on the T-64 tank. I was pretty disappointed to see that he wrote like two paragraphs on its performance in Ukraine.

A Pale Horse posted:

That's all correct and NATO has said that while the center is affiliated with NATO its not considered a NATO center and as such is an internal matter for Poland. Which essentially means they had the right to do what they did but they are so stupid, so tone deaf that they do even legal things in the worst possible way. Instead of consulting this with NATO beforehand and then doing it on a Monday morning, they do it in the middle of the night, like a bunch of thieves and only get NATO opinion after the fact. I mean, what the gently caress?! They're not just malevolent, they're deeply incompetent as well.

KOD (committee for the defense of democracy) is organizing a march again tomorrow in Warsaw after last week's successful march which was attended by between 20 and 50 thousand people. BOR (the Polish analogue of the US secret service) has banned drone flights over government buildings until mid January. Why you may ask? Because there was discrepancy between the reported number of marchers by the civil services in Warsaw. The city government said about 50,000 people marched, the police said about 20,000. Then drone footage came out that was much more congruent with 50,000 people than 20,000 and so this week, drone flying is banned in Warsaw. I'm not even kidding. Its that petty and stupid now.

awesome-express posted:

That is one ugly cover

sparatuvs posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56OnOCvzC6o

"Patriotic education" in the DNR consists of dressing up in camouflage, delivering goods to the front, and firing artillery shells.

Brown Moses posted:

The way I see it, any country that produces the solid evidence Russian was responsible is basically going to poison diplomatic relations with Russia for years. How could the EU work with Russia while they still deny they killed 298 people despite solid evidence being presented by their allies, or even a member of the EU. Which Dutch leader would allow themselves to be seen to let the EU move on from MH17 if that sort of evidence was made public by a government? You just have to look at Syria to see how Obama treats foreign policy, he's not the sort of leader who is going to drop bombshells like that.

Baloogan posted:

Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis