Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Malleum posted:

Why does Russia have to answer for every sin of the Soviet Union? The Union collapsed. Russia is not communist. It is not the same government or people that it was 20 years ago. I can understand a country disentangling itself from the Soviet clusterfuck, but why does everyone want to be so brazenly antagonistic? Russians were victims of the Soviets too.

Russians were the leaders of the Soviet Union. That's why people blame them. Because they did it.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 07:08

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 07:28

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Malleum posted:

Russians that have been dead for half a century. Russia was the head of the Soviet Union. Russia was not the Soviet Union. Germany was the head of the Third Reich, but everyone and their mother was eager to help them transition from a totalitarian state instead of isolate and punish them for their former misdeeds. What's the difference here?

If a member of the SS had become supreme leader of Germany in 1955 you'd have a point.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 07:43

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Malleum posted:

So Putin has been in control of Russia since the exact moment that the Union collapsed? All this stuff was happening during Yeltsin's days.

That's why I said 55 instead of 45. hope this helps.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 08:41

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Sergg posted:

I'm sorry that Ukraine and Georgia had the gall to maybe think about signing treaties with other countries about not getting invaded as though they were sovereign nations that shouldn't be invaded.

Pretty much this. The Russians are rightfully afraid of NATO expansion due to their long history of being invaded from the West. At the same time, Ukraine also is rightfully afraid of being taken over by Russia again, which is exactly what Russia is trying to do. Just like I don't blame the Russians for not wanting NATO on their border, I also don't blame Ukraine for wanting to get the gently caress away from Russia. The thing is, the Russians are in the wrong here because their concern is simply a fearful thought, whereas the Ukrainian concern is actually loving happening.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 08:46

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Ochn0e posted:

If russia really was invading the ukraine it would have ended two months ago. russia also has(had) a contract to use the sevastopol harbor until 2042, so they have clearly an interest in keeping their access point to the black sea. If a country splits in two halves and you have massive interests in part of it you're not saying: "oh no please don't switch to our side."

NATO promised in 1989/90 with the german reunion that NATO didn't expand further east than west germany and after the ussr crumbled no one gave a poo poo.
On 8 July 1997, three former communist countries, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland, were invited to join NATO, which each did in 1999. If you don't know... Poland is east of germany, as is hungary and both share a border with the ukraine.

So you can see that it really doesn't matter what russia does, we don't give a poo poo.

Ukraine, not the Ukraine. The rest of your post is garbage and we've already discussed everything you've said, run along.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 11:26

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Ochn0e posted:

Well everything in your post is garbage too, so run along hit the ball and stfu.

Ukraine is not garbage.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 12:13

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Ochn0e posted:

If I need a grammar nazi... I will call you!

Until then have a nice time.

btw. nobody ITT posted about the contract "the" unkraine signed with russia about sevastopol harbor so next time you talk to me, plz don't lie if you don't like the content or arguments I'm presenting. Thank you very much

That's because The Ukraine doesn't exist.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 12:41

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Maarek posted:

This thread is starting to get hilarious. From the 'I am glad that Russians are dying out' guy to the the calls to fight the Russian army to the last Ukrainian, I guess we now know exactly what you need to turn D&D into Freep.

Blatant imperialist aggression and evidence of war crimes? Yes, just like Freep.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 01:14

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

axelord posted:

It's pretty disgusting how willing you guys are to throw away Ukrainian lives for your hate of Russia. Maybe think about what your proposing and how it would effect the actual people living there.

Or even what happens if this war continues to escalate.

I absolutely agree with you that it's disgusting to see people posting about making Ukraine into Russia's Vietnam. Not only is that hosed up for the Ukrainian people, it's also hosed up for the Russian soldiers who will die fighting something they probably don't agree with/wouldn't agree with if they knew what was actually happening. I'm all for loving Putin over for eternity, I'm not for violence just for the sake of violence.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 01:17

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

SirJohnnyMcDonald posted:

There are some times where goons manage to absolutely disgust me.

For the love of god I hope you people are trolling.

I wasn't aware Russia was committing genocide!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

hope this helps

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 01:18

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

my dad posted:

Areas that were peppered with depleted Uranium and had the recorded radiation level increased several times compared to pre-bombing levels? I'd say the that word irradiated fits well enough.

I think they're being intentionally stupid. Clearly you don't mean irradiated Chernobyl-core style, you're saying "irradiated" as in "littered with toxic radioactive by-products". And yes. You are correct. DU is extremely hazardous and has resulted in birth defects and other health issues due in large part to its use by NATO.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 08:51

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Contaminated is probably a better word, since it's also a toxic metal on top of whatever radioactivity.

That's what I was trying to get at, yeah. You just worded it way less stupidly than I did. :P

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 09:38

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

A Buttery Pastry posted:

3000 rounds is what, 60 seconds of fire from an A10? That doesn't sounds like much firing time to me, but then again, I'm no expert. You're right though, that's only a bit less than a ton.

Sure, finding something better would be ideal. My point is really that this is a small comfort for the people who actually have to live where that poo poo was used, and treating it like some insincere scare is kind of dickish.

Isn't the DU used for penetration? Can you explain why using it in bunker busters would make no military sense?

Also this:

quote:

Most military use of depleted uranium has been as 30 mm caliber ordnance, primarily the 30 mm PGU-14/B armour-piercing incendiary round from the GAU-8 Avenger cannon of the A-10 Thunderbolt II used by the United States Air Force. 25 mm DU rounds have been used in the M242 gun mounted on the U.S. Army's Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the Marine Corps's LAV-25
.
The U.S. Marine Corps uses DU in the 25 mm PGU-20 round fired by the GAU-12 Equalizer cannon of the AV-8B Harrier, and also in the 20 mm M197 gun mounted on AH-1 Cobra helicopter gunships. The United States Navy's Phalanx CIWS's M61 Vulcan Gatling gun used 20 mm armor-piercing penetrator rounds with discarding plastic sabots made using depleted uranium, later changed to tungsten.
Another use of depleted uranium is in kinetic energy penetrators, anti-armor rounds such as the 120 mm sabot rounds fired from the British Challenger 1, Challenger 2,[30] M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams.[31] Kinetic energy penetrator rounds consist of a long, relatively thin penetrator surrounded by a discarding sabot. Staballoys are metal alloys of depleted uranium with a very small proportion of other metals, usually titanium or molybdenum. One formulation has a composition of 99.25% by mass of depleted uranium and 0.75% by mass of titanium. Staballoys are approximately 1.67 times as dense as lead and are designed for use in kinetic energy penetrator armor-piercing ammunition. The US Army uses DU in an alloy with around 3.5% titanium.

The Russian military has used DU ammunition in tank main gun ammunition since the late 1970s, mostly for the 115 mm guns in the T-62 tank and the 125 mm guns in the T-64, T-72, T-80, and T-90 tanks.

It is thought that between 17 and 20 countries have weapons incorporating depleted uranium in their arsenals. They include the U.S., the UK, France, Russia, China, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Pakistan, Thailand, Iraq and Taiwan.

In a three-week period of conflict in Iraq during 2003 it was estimated that over 1000 tons of depleted uranium munitions were used.

So yeah. A little bit more than "1 ton used by the A-10".

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 09:44

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

I must have missed where the US shot M1A2's at Kosovo from it's bombers.

That is reasonable. I probably came off as a dick in that light, and could have started the topic in a much more polite way. Most argument on these forums is done in a sarcastic and aggressive manner, and it's easy to forget that the person you're arguing with actually had to deal with bombs falling on their heads. I still think that a lot of the DU stuff people talk about is bad discourse though. My biggest worry is that we switch back to Tungsten and make matters worse given it's higher toxicity.

No, but you did miss this:

quote:

The U.S. Marine Corps uses DU in the 25 mm PGU-20 round fired by the GAU-12 Equalizer cannon of the AV-8B Harrier, and also in the 20 mm M197 gun mounted on AH-1 Cobra helicopter gunships.

and this:

quote:

Staballoys are metal alloys of depleted uranium with a very small proportion of other metals, usually titanium or molybdenum. One formulation has a composition of 99.25% by mass of depleted uranium and 0.75% by mass of titanium. Staballoys are approximately 1.67 times as dense as lead and are designed for use in kinetic energy penetrator armor-piercing ammunition. The US Army uses DU in an alloy with around 3.5% titanium.

Don't forget this:

quote:

The Russian military has used DU ammunition in tank main gun ammunition since the late 1970s, mostly for the 115 mm guns in the T-62 tank and the 125 mm guns in the T-64, T-72, T-80, and T-90 tanks.

And above all, this:

quote:

It is thought that between 17 and 20 countries have weapons incorporating depleted uranium in their arsenals. They include the U.S., the UK, France, Russia, China, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Pakistan, Thailand, Iraq and Taiwan.

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

My biggest worry is that we switch back to Tungsten and make matters worse given it's higher toxicity.

Couldn't agree with you more on that.

Dusty Baker 2 fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Sep 7, 2014

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 12:29

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Batham posted:

8/10. Minus 2 points for not making the amount of corners match each value of the coin.

holy gently caress.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 12:32

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

My Imaginary GF posted:

Making lists of known Russian apologists and publicizing their names....hmmm....sounds like a very Germanic or McCarthian thing to do.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 22:57

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

sparatuvs posted:

Welp, DNR says it started beheading Ukrainian soldiers.

For obvious reasons

http://i.imgur.com/7raij2P.png

Text reads:
"packages to the homeland of punishers that shoot our guys and civilians".

Holy poo poo. What's the source on this? Other than that screenshot, is there anything else that verifies it?

# ¿ Sep 10, 2014 17:52

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Mightypeon posted:

Nope, they didnt float that "idea", they pointed out that the Kievan side claimed they had no planes up in the area, and then Russia provided proof that they in fact did, propably while wondering why Kiev would open up their propaganda war with an easily disprovable lie.
At the same presenation, they also proved that Kiev has Buks in Donbass, which Kiev initially said they did not.

This was done to show that Kiev/the west lies, in order to reduce the credibility of actually credible western evidence (which exists) for a seperatist shootdown, not to create/impose their own theory (they left that to non goverment actors).
That some people ran off with the "Kiev lied about not having a plane, therefor they must have shot the M17 down with that plane" stuff you see peddled has nothing "directly" to do with the Russian goverment.

I imagine Ukraine meant "We have no planes in the area that can shoot down an airliner". They probably had some attack helicopters in the area too, but since those aren't the type that can shoot down airliners, it's not an issue to discuss.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 10:48

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Mightypeon posted:

Considerable parts of the Ukrainians see the policies of the post Maidan goverment as infringing on their rights, and for good reason. Concerning the "rights" of Ukraine to join Nato, they explicitly voided that right in their own state sovereignity declaration and in their declaration of independence.

I fully agree that they have the right to choose their own leaders, and not have them chosen by either Putin or Victoria Nuland.

How can people, after the massive western politician presence, the openly admitted "democracy foundation" support, the open western bragging, the leaked phone calls etc. see Maidan as something else but an unusually violent "color revolution"?

I just dont get it.

Yo the Maidan government was in place for like 2 days when Russia invaded Crimea. They didn't even get a chance to settle down before Russia started loving with them. Hope this helps.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2014 23:21

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Cuntpunch posted:

I believe he's trying to cite the Russian/separatist cassus belli - long since disproven - that the new government immediately attempted to ban/purge Russian as a language in Ukraine.

Poor plucky little Russia.

my dad posted:

I sincerely apologize for diverting your attention from Ukraine for a bit, but there's some cross-region stuff I want to talk about. Probably constitutes a derail, feel free to skim over:

I appreciate these updates, keep 'em coming.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2014 23:32

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

kalstrams posted:

Hmmph, are there explanations to this, alternative to a PR stunt by Timoshenko?

Your avatar is hilarious and I keep reading your posts in what I imagine her voice is.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 09:11

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Forgall posted:

Don't you have your own thread now to poo poo up with your apologia.

It's really not that difficult to understand Majorian's position on this situation. I haven't seen him defend Putin's actions as the right thing to do, he's merely providing background and perspective as to why the Kremlin is doing what it's doing. I sure as hell prefer his posts over more "fukkin' Russia man lol" bullshit. Besides, he has said numerous times that he doesn't agree with Putin's reasons for being a warmonger, he's just providing a backdrop of what they're using to sell the conflict back in Russia.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2014 15:49

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

MeLKoR posted:

Correction, why the Kremlin says it is doing it. We already know why they claim they are doing what they are doing, we just think they are full of poo poo. Someone compared it with Nazi Germany and apart from the obvious fact that Putin isn't Hitler the rest of the comparison is sound. First of all why should we believe what "Germany" claims are their motivations and second why should we care what their motivations are when they are trouncing their neighbors?

It seems that for someone that values realism and serious analysis so much there is a severe naivete in taking everything/anything at face value that the guys who have been destabilizing and invading their neighbors for years have to say. "The Germans are angry because the West hosed them over in Versailles, anything we do will only escalate things, maybe we should just let them have their sphere of influence so they can save face and feel safer in a few years" is a poo poo proposition no matter how seeped in "understanding their motivations" it is.

That's really not how it's coming out and I say this not as some anti-Putin goon caricature but as someone that supported Russia during the war with Georgia.

Yeah I worded that wrong, but you're right. I didn't mean to frame it as the actual reasons they're acting the way they are, just the reasons they're selling for their behavior.

Also you posted wrong, you were supposed to call me an idiot and talk down to me in a condescending way. Don't you know anything?! :argh:

# ¿ Sep 20, 2014 17:48

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Cheatum the Evil Midget posted:

Oh and east ukraine may be a soviet era rustbucket but western ukraine doesnt even have any buckets to rust, econimcally speaking. Nor did Maidan magically banish to feckless corrupt incompetent politicians to Romania or something: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/19/ukraine-s-president-wowed-congress-but-his-party-has-a-dark-side.html

I don't think Maidan had a chance to take a collective breath before the Russians were in Crimea.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2014 12:23

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Dear Eastern Europe thread:

Today I was in a boring seminar about using the writing and math help centers on my campus. Somebody's phone went off, and their ringtone was "House of the Rising Sun". I thought about the song for a bit, and then had a stroke of what I think is genius, but you'll likely disagree.

because my laptop sucks and dies when I edit photos.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 04:38

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Brown Moses posted:

Note you can see it matches across the entire skirt as well, not just one part of it. There's other images of Buk with the same sort of damage to the skirt, but it's all in different positions.

As I discussed with you via PM, I've been double-checking your evaluations of the pictures with a skeptics eye trying to find anything different between the pictures of the Buk to see if they're different vehicles. Unfortunately for the separatists, they're the same vehicle, as far as I can see. I've seen nothing in any of the pictures that contradicts anything you've said.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 19:56

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Valiantman posted:

The Federal Police of Russia is starting an official investigation. About what, you ask? Well, of course about the genocide of 2500 Russian speaking East-Ukranians in Donetsk and Luhansk. According to the police, several unnamed people in the political elite and military command of Ukraine, the Ukrainian national guard and the Right Sector meant to eradicate the entire Russian-speaking population there.

I'm not smiling here, not ever ironically. They're blaming the entire war they themselves instigated and fuelled on Ukranians and saying they killed all the dead people of the conflict. And they have the audacity to involve the police of Russia, as if the annexation of the East-Ukraine was already a matter of fact.

What's a Tatar?

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 22:32

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

OddObserver posted:

Besides Putin's birth, some other sad things deeply connected to him happened today: the founding of his favorite past dictatorship, the so-called "German Democratic Republic", and the murder of journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who reported on many abuses of Russia regimes.

And it's Ollie North's birthday

# ¿ Oct 8, 2014 07:17

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

So Vice has been quiet for a while. I wonder what's up.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 09:24

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Pycckuu posted:

People are lovely towards the gypsies because gypsies steal. If you want to change the way you are treated by others, stop stealing their poo poo.

hahahaha thank you for lightening the mood in here with your blatant racism, we needed a common idiot to laugh at.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2014 20:52

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Vice Dispatch 82 is up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6EHo05CheE

# ¿ Oct 31, 2014 08:07

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

El Scotch posted:

Oil prices are going down because Uranus is in the 7th House.

I literally loled and now I feel like an idiot.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2014 18:31

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Sandweed posted:

Every morning you wake up, salute the picture of Putin on your nightstand. Go into the bathroom, look at yourself in the mirror. Start whispering "Ukrainians are not people. Russia is strong!" over and over again, soon you aren't whispering anymore, soon your voice is proud and strong! All your neighbors will know how patriotic you are! After a few years you even start believing it yourself.

A Good Post.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2014 22:50

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

TeodorMorozov posted:

That's good news. Thank you!

Holy poo poo, gently caress off.

e: not super related, but there's a woman running for some minor position up here in Olympia, Washington whose last name is Svoboda so there are signs everywhere that say "Vote Svoboda". Fuckin' homonazis are coming.

Dusty Baker 2 fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Nov 2, 2014

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 01:55

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

To be fair, in the US the narrative is pretty much that we won the war, Britain helped, and we let Russia take Berlin because we felt bad for them.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2014 16:40

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

whats a burger journalist? Is it like turd bugler?

# ¿ Nov 7, 2014 09:23

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Brown Moses posted:

Just published on Bellingcat Origin of the Separatists� Buk: A Bellingcat Investigation, also available as a PDF.

shots fired

# ¿ Nov 9, 2014 04:17

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Nenonen posted:

even Hemingway and Pyle would be scared of working with this guy

I think it means "captured this photograph" or "captured this scene". Hah

# ¿ Nov 12, 2014 19:44

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Vice is up to dispatch 86 on Russian Roulette. Dispatch 85 was an inside-look at the life of the Donetsk fire department. Sorta crazy.

Anyway, here's 86: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV70uDYUqlc

# ¿ Nov 13, 2014 00:48

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 07:28

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

haha remember when all the putin fanboys were like "no Russia won't ever invade Eastern Ukraine" haha man good times.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2014 09:01

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