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After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Jerusalem posted:

I'm still not sold on the idea of the Doctor/Nyssa team in Big Finish, the stories I've heard so far have been good or bad independent of anything her character brings to the table, even in the case of Primeval where she is utterly integral to the entire narrative. Nothing against Sarah Sutton who gives perfectly fine performances that mesh well with her television appearances, but so far to me nobody seems to have really grasped any aspect of Nyssa's character that would make her stand out ala Janet Fielding as Tegan. Maybe that's the point? That she's exactly what she appears, a very nice and intelligent lady who gets on well with the Doctor and happens to be traveling with him. But considering the responsibility/obligation he supposedly feels for her given his indirect part in her father's death, there needs to be something more. It's not like the writers (or Robert Holmes at least) weren't capable of that, since it's a pretty hefty part of the Doctor/Peri relationship in The Caves of Androzani.

Don't know how far you've gotten in your Davison run, but Nyssa's the only companion that could have worked in darker stories like Spare Parts and Creatures of Beauty, which tie very directly into her sole-survivor, PTSD guilt.

I haven't gotten to Circular Time yet, but I'm looking forward to it from what everybody's said!

Jerusalem posted:

Vengeance on Varos is good, so is The Two Doctors (some will disagree, they are liars) but they're "good" with qualifiers.
Two Doctors is worth a watch for the last time you get to see major Holmes world-building. He creates an entire galactic society with distinct cultures and traditions all through dialogue, just like the old days.

And some Time Lord gobbledygook that Big Finish would eventually put to good use in Gallifrey.

Everyone should listen to Gallifrey.

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After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Ms Boods posted:

That series has an amazingly grumpy introduction by Harlan Ellison (praising Doctor Who and talking a lot of poo poo about Star Trek, not surprisingly).

That essay is a great snapshot of the reaction from the "old guard" (well, New Wave in this case) to the sudden popularity of mainstream sci-fi in the late 70s: Star Trek and especially Star Wars are stupid and will make you stupid. I remember something about the latter "turning your brain into a mush the consistency of bat guano", but it's been a while and I gave my copies away.

It's one reason I snigger at the whole "triumph of geek culture" thing you hear every time a Marvel movie blows up the box office.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

MrL_JaKiri posted:

You what, does he think she's Sara Kingdom or something

:pray:

I want to see the extra-long, "big" budget Dalek serials more than anything...


Look at the size of that set!

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

DoctorWhat posted:

Well, Philip Morris recently claimed that Stephen Moffat was "leaked" (against Morris's will) knowledge of the then-impending return of The Web of Fear early enough that Moffat actually did bring in the Great Intelligence in response.

Which implies that Web was found at least as early as Summer 2012, which only raises further suspicions and questions about the whole situation.

Confirmed, Missy is Mavic Chen the Meddling Monk! :dance:

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Jerusalem posted:

These are the Time Lords of Big Finish (from what I've heard so far), incompetent navel-gazers who are incredibly short-sighted and easily outwitted by the most painfully obvious traps and ambushes. How in the world these idiots manage to basically monitor and control all of time and space is utterly beyond me - maybe that's the point, that they've been resting on their laurels for so many millions of years relying on the engineering skills of their ancestors (Rassilon in particular) that they're basically just kids playing with "the toys of the Gods". But intentional or not, it makes their status as the ultimate power in the universe (sans the God-like beings like the Eternals/Celestial Toymaker etc) laughable. Especially in a story like this where they are taking part in a conference of various time traveling races and eagerly hoping to get a look at some of the cool technology of the other races who have developed things beyond them - the Time LORDS shouldn't ever be behind the times on temporal technology, and they're supposed to guard time-travel jealously, why would they allow these other races to develop to such a high standard? Why would they let their status be tarnished by accepting these other races as comparative "equals" by attending the same conference?

The politicking leaves me cold too, which is a pity since I usually love stories about various political machinations - but generally because the political machinations are sensible or Machiavellian and thus compelling. In this and other stories though, the machinations of the various elements are hopelessly incompetent or naive, particularly Vansell who appears to make a habit of having incredibly stupid kneejerk reactions (which is amusing if only for the Doctor's exasperation).

You really need to listen to Gallifrey

Bicyclops posted:

After The War posted:

Everyone should listen to Gallifrey.
Agreed

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Crazy Man posted:

Is that a good place to start with the audios? I tried Storm Warning once, and I just couldn't get into it...

Like folks are saying, definitely not. It's essentially a spin-off of the fantastic audio Neverland, which is the culmination of the Eighth Doctor's second season arc... which is why everyone suggests Storm Warning as a starting place. You've probably heard it before on here, but in the year between Storm Warning and Chimes of Midnight Big Finish really got their poo poo together. I have a soft spot for Invaders From Mars (Eight's second season "premiere") mostly because of Gatiss' genuine love for old radio shows and the kind of silliness that he had on display in the most recent episode.

You could probably do worse than to run through Six/Evelyn stories up to Apocalypse Element, then jump back on the Eight Train if you're not a crazy person like me and try to listen to all of Big Finish in release date order.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
On the other hand, back to the "Six in the wrong era" discussion, at that point Big Finish was writing with more expectation people would be listening as they came out. It helps to see things from Romana's viewpoint: Apocalypse Element, Eight's second season culminating with Neverland and Zagreus, then Gallifrey.

The creators said they were going for a "West Wing" feel, but since I didn't watch that, I'll compare it more to Babylon 5: backstabbing politics in the foreground, but something massively powerful and beyond comprehension just beyond the edges. It's a good way of combining the Lovecraftian scope of War Games with the Gormenghast stasis of Deadly Assassin (you listening, JaKiri?)

Aside from the plotting, it (like Neverland, and unlike Zagreus) Gallifrey does a great job of seeing all of Doctor Who as a massive toybox, pulling in bits and bobs from different televised stories and having fun with them without seeming fanwanky. Plus lots of old-fashioned 70s ham thrown in the mix.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
The other reason 42 was a Big Deal is that it was the first episode directed by someone who had also directed during the original run, Graeme Harper, who would end up doing a bunch more as well as episodes of Sarah Jane Adventures.

EDIT - Post-Fiftieth, it may not seem that big of a deal, but at the time the connections to the original series consisted mostly of one-off lines and monster re-imaginings.

DOUBLE EDIT - I should probably just shut up about this era until I deal with my grumpiness head-on and rewatch it.

After The War fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Sep 11, 2014

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Diabolik900 posted:

According to that link, it was actually the fifth episode of the new series that he had directed.

poo poo, getting my chronology mixed up and continually forgetting about all the season 2 Cybermen episodes. My bad.

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After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Metal Loaf posted:

I imagine if the series had continued past 1990, the Cybermen would've eventually been beaten when the Doctor tricks them into drinking Nescafe Gold Blend.



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