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surc
Aug 17, 2004

Is there still a general doctor who and/or classic doctor who thread? I am about to take the plunge and go full chronological through classic who and would like to have a place to talk about it.

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surc
Aug 17, 2004

I watched the unearthly child last night, and now I am super psyched to watch 7 episodes of stretched-out, filler daleks! :D

It is pretty hilarious having gotten into Who with Tennant as the doctor, and going back and seeing season 1, episode 1 doctor. "gently caress all of you Humans! Gonna kill me some caveman!"

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Bicyclops posted:

Glad you're having a fun ride! Are you trying to do a full watchthrough, even including the reproductions, or are you going to skip around a bit?

I'm not set one way or the other. At the moment I figure I'll try and do a complete watch-through, but if I hit a section I really don't enjoy I'll probably skip it and maybe come back later. I've always loved schlocky sci-fi, so I expect I'll still like most of the bad ones. There's also enough out there that I feel like I have to squeeze every drop of enjoyment out of it if I'm not digging it though, so we'll see how it goes.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Classic-who chat: I started watching season 1 like a month ago casually, and now I'm a watching a reconstruction of the marco polo roof of the world episode with audio over colorized photographs. I think I'm doomed.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Oh no, I'm already fully into it! I meant I'm doomed as in I'm on a path and there's no turning back. I now know the love that is reconstructions.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Bicyclops posted:

How far into the show did you watch before you went back to the repros? I watched all the intact serials and then went back for the missing episodes, and I sort of wish I had just watched them all in order.

I watched through brink of destruction.

Proper chronological order when watching completed series :getin:

E:
Work got crazy for me halfway through my watching of Daleks, so I had to stop watching Who completely for a couple weeks, last night I watched 5-7 of Daleks, Brink of Destruction, and Marco Polo.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Jerusalem posted:

:hfive:

It was a blast going through it all in order. Pity that the reconstructions vary in quality so much though.

Yeah, I feel like doing it in order makes it more of an "event" for me, so I'm enjoying the hell out of it! Unfortunately I haven't been able to convince any of my friends to join me in it ( :( ). Makes it easier to just throw on 6 episodes to watch before I go to bed or something though.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Well, what a bad season of Doctor Who that was. THANKS TERRIBLE COMPANION AND TERRIBLE, WEIRD NATIONALISTIC YOU-CAN-BE-THE-PERFECT-GUY-IF-YOU'RE-A-SOLDIER-TOO COMPANION ROMANCE.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Maxwell Lord posted:

You didn't cotton to how Pink was haunted by shooting a little kid as a direct result of his soldiering?

That's actually a large part of what pissed me off, the whole thing was done with a tone of "He has this horrible pain to bear that he can never get over, but HE STILL UNDERSTANDS THE DUTY OF A SOLDIER!" I mean, jesus loving christ the line he goes out on is basically saying "Only a soldier could choose to sacrifice himself to save humanity".
Also the constant "Oh, the doctor's a hypocrite, he says he doesn't want these bad things to happen, but when put in this strangely contrived situation where he has to either let a bad thing happen to this dude or let a billion people die, HE CHOSE TO SAVE THE BILLION PEOPLE. WHAT A HYPOCRITE YES GENERAL SIR GENERAL! I've seen his kind before, you can only trust us common men who fight for what's right"

It just like... doesn't make any loving sense in the context of Doctor Who , and seems extremely petty? And Clara pretty much personifies a lot of the terrible entitlement issues that abound in the world nowadays, and lies and threatens to make her life as close to perfect as possible, because she DESERVES IT OK JEEZE. If I wanted to watch terrible people argue and fight about how their personal interests and issues were more important than saving the world, I'd be watching political news. I don't need that poo poo in my escapist entertainment.

thexerox123 posted:

It really wasn't done in a nationalistic way, like, at all.

Maybe nationalism was the wrong term, but I'd say it's full to the brim of "Us vs Them/Good vs Evil/One good soldier makes the difference/Your sacrifice is worth it despite the pain" propaganda. Maybe militarism is better? I don't know what it's actually called.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

DirtyRobot posted:

I don't get this. It was like... the central theme of the episode. It was relevant to Danny's constant criticism of the Doctor as an "officer" who didn't get his hands dirty, as well as the difference between the Doctor and the Master.

The Doctor doesn't want to be the officer, or to be the president of earth, or to have control or whatever like the Master thinks -- he prefers to be the idiot with a box and a screwdriver, going around and helping out. In the episode in which he's given control of the entire world's armies, he explicitly says in the climax, "I don't need an army. Never have, except for them" *points to hugging companions*.

If he'd "done something" or "acomplished anything" with the world's armies, it would have defeated the whole point of that speech and hosed up the central thematic tension (is he a good man, what kind of a man is he, etc.)

Yeah, but it's a dumb theme. Like.... of course the Doctor doesn't want to be an officer or president or whatever, that's been established pretty much every season. I mean, the whole Demon's Run thing? Big revelation about how oh no he's the kind of guy who can raise an army and that's not what he set out to be? Hello, yes that just happened a companion ago! Why do we need another season built around showing us how much the doctor wants to be an idiot in a box, when that's already thrown at us all the time? I would way prefer to see Capaldi actually doing new stuff instead of confirming that yes, he is still Doctor Who yet again!

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Honestly I'd forgive the weird soldier-fetishization if the season didn't feel like a series of weirdly disjointed poorly-written vinettes that somebody was all "Oh poo poo we have to tie these together!"

The season finale would have had more impact if they hadn't done their Shyamalan-ian levels of "A *twist* is coming!" with the promised-land stuff at the end of each episode. If the master had just popped up? That would have been way more crazy. As it was, they'd pretty much managed to set me up to expect it to be boring, which, it turned out was pretty much correct. I don't know if it would have been physically possible for the plot throughout the season to consist of more cliches. It doesn't even seem like they're having fun with the cliches, just going through the motions because yes, these are what these character types should do and say.


The whole thing is so disappointing to me because Peter Capaldi would have a moment in an episode, and I'd get all excited thinking "This is it, this is when he really takes his doctor and brings him to the forefront, time to make me care!" And then the moment would pass, and the writing would creep back in between me and enjoyment of the show again.


Also I don't know what the hell was going on with the camera work in the season finale. There's some cuts when he's being President that legitimately made me nauseous. I think it's like: Facing the doctor, cut to the doctor's POV, cut to facing the doctor from a different angle, cut to over the shoulder shot of the doctor, cut to facing the doctor again, then cut back to a POV from the doctor, only 3-4 feet lower than the previous POV, while he's been sitting in a single chair the whole time.


E: And I swear, I'm done who-hating, this season just ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh could have gone so many places, and instead shat on itself and rolled around in it.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Jerusalem posted:

Agreed. There wasn't some super-special spirit of a long-dead Time Lord who traveled to some crux point of time and space inside the TARDIS manipulating events or anything, it was just an old but enthusiastic TARDIS that saw a kindred spirit in the Doctor.

It's the same kind of problem I have with that notion of the Doctor as some kind of ridiculous reincarnation of THE OTHER or the son of Ulysses the great Time Lord traveller or being chosen by Death (ugh) etc - you don't need anything to make the Doctor some special chosen one. What makes him special is the things he has experienced, the lessons he has learned, and the choices he has made, almost all of which WE have also experienced watching his adventures over the last 50 years.

Yes, this exactly. I think of this kind of thing as the "Drizzit/Superman" problem. It's really hard to write stories that aren't crap when your character is super amazing in every way with no flaws, and/or totally invincible.


Also personally, I think that the implied message of "Go out and see the world and amazing things will happen to you" is a waaaaaay better one than "if you are pre-destined to be awesome and the best, amazing things will happen to you!"

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surc
Aug 17, 2004

Metal Loaf posted:

Sliders crossover.

SOLD!

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