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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
WTF?

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1281163759264960512

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Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
what's the over/under on ketamine and shoyu blackout

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer
I don't think so, he gave a will to his daughter and cancelled his schedule before walking into woods and turning off his phone

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

exmachina posted:

I don't think so, he gave a will to his daughter and cancelled his schedule before walking into woods and turning off his phone

That makes it sound like a suicide.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer
Yes it does

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009
CNN is saying the mayor has been found dead.

hmmxkrazee
Sep 9, 2006
why
So I assume the allegations were true then (the secretary supposedly had a bunch of evidence as well). I wonder if there was more stuff he was afraid would get uncovered if this investigation continued. The hate train for the secretary has already begun which is unfortunate.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar
"The poor man is dead, can't we just stop investigating all of this?" before it points to many more powerful people "It's disrespecting his memory" of sexually abusing his staff

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

I'm ashamed to report that though I saw the South Korean movie The Mayor years ago and wrote about it I had no notion that the title character was probably based on this guy. Though admittedly that's not something anyone would have ever publicly admitted to, for obvious reasons.

In lighter posts-

https://twitter.com/AskAKorean/status/1288825526459813891?p=v

So the joke is that tankies are...correct...?

boredsatellite
Dec 7, 2013

The nice thing about the trump administration is that they are willing to negotiate on the limits of the missile range unlike the previous govs (because either they have no idea what they are giving us or because they have to to maintain the alliance after poo poo trump says.)

2nd time so far each giving us more freedom on it. Its super nice

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/AskAKorean/status/1289262426706210817?p=v

Bad form to post a tweet from the same account twice in a row I know but this is just such an elegant depiction of what liberals actually believe and will gladly say in public just for the sake of making themselves sound more neutral and balanced. Then they turn around and act all shocked that North Korea doesn't trust liberal plans of incrementalism and demands big showy gestures and direct concessions as opposed to the honor system.

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

On the other hand, maybe it is good to want some of the worst oppressors and human rights abusers in the world to be disposed and put on trial for their disgusting crimes? Just spitballing here

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/AskAKorean/status/1289262426706210817?p=v

Bad form to post a tweet from the same account twice in a row I know but this is just such an elegant depiction of what liberals actually believe and will gladly say in public just for the sake of making themselves sound more neutral and balanced. Then they turn around and act all shocked that North Korea doesn't trust liberal plans of incrementalism and demands big showy gestures and direct concessions as opposed to the honor system.

It's just some rando though? Like "liberals" seeking to do regime change and negotiating in bad faith only as a means to facilitate future regime change is a very recent thing geopolitically speaking.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
He's not really just a rando, Ask a Korean is actually surprisingly influential considering he started as a wordpress blog, a whole lot of journalists follow him.

Honestly not that surprisingly, he regularly has some of the best explanations for South Korean political stuff in English. Given a lot of the actual journalists don't even speak Korean that's not necessarily a high bar though.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Raenir Salazar posted:

It's just some rando though? Like "liberals" seeking to do regime change and negotiating in bad faith only as a means to facilitate future regime change is a very recent thing geopolitically speaking.

How exactly are you defining recent? This has been the policy for my entire lifetime, at least on the USA end.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

GABA ghoul posted:

On the other hand, maybe it is good to want some of the worst oppressors and human rights abusers in the world to be disposed and put on trial for their disgusting crimes? Just spitballing here
It's bad diplomacy to soapbox those intentions openly when trying to negotiate with said oppressors for concessions.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

Some Guy TT posted:

How exactly are you defining recent? This has been the policy for my entire lifetime, at least on the USA end.

My observation is that before the invasion of Iraq and the axis of evil speech the US could maintain a functional working relationship even with authoritarian countries and was even on the road towards a diplomatic breakthrough with Iran and North Korea. Then came Bush and neoconservativism in ascendancy.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Your observation is incorrect. We had a good deal with the Agreed Framework and our government simply decided not to follow through on our end of it because the Long March happened and they were hoping the North Koreans would starve to death. Even if you believe that Clinton wanted to follow through on the deal and that the Republicans prevented him from doing so, the North Koreans have no reason to interpret our actions so charitably. Especially not after Obama's North Korea policy, and especially especially now that Biden's promising to destroy what little progress the Trump administration has made toward detente.

Anyway, in less beaten dead horse news, I was watching a TV documentary about suicided Seoul Park Won-soon last night on right-wing cable news. What really stood out to me was that the documentary had been in production for quite some time. There was footage of reporters searching out non-city employees connected with these mysterious after-work outings Park Won-soon had been conducting on the city payroll. They also had interviews with feminist activists who talked about past allegations of lechery against Park Won-soon that had been fairly cleanly covered up, and the difficulty anyone had going after him due to his reputation as a feminist lawmaker.

What I'm getting at is that it looks like the whole situation with the guy wasn't as sudden as it sounds. Park Won-soon, and more importantly the rest of the liberal party, knew that he was toast sooner or later and decided to throw him under the bus for the good of the party, or possibly the good of the country's political culture in general. For a right-wing cable news documentary I have to admit I was fairly surprised they went out of their way to show Ban Ki-moon saying nice things about the guy. Evidently a whole lot of people must have been relieved he died a martyr rather than being the centerpoint of a months long media circus.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

Some Guy TT posted:

Your observation is incorrect. We had a good deal with the Agreed Framework and our government simply decided not to follow through on our end of it because the Long March happened and they were hoping the North Koreans would starve to death. Even if you believe that Clinton wanted to follow through on the deal and that the Republicans prevented him from doing so, the North Koreans have no reason to interpret our actions so charitably. Especially not after Obama's North Korea policy, and especially especially now that Biden's promising to destroy what little progress the Trump administration has made toward detente.

Uh, you're assessment doesn't match my information. according to Arms Control it doesn't seem like its the case at all that the US "simply decided not to follow through". Putting aside that a Missile test is a pretty good reason to reassess if the framework is actually working as intended; but according to the article the Clinton Administration intended to follow through with additional layers of agreements. The article firmly puts the blame on Bush; but even if we did suppose that things began to come apart during the end of the Clinton Administration it still very clearly fits my observations that the US only begun to be less of a rational good faith actor w.r.t authoritarian regimes towards the occurrence of the Bush Administration (versus some unspecified point earlier in the 20th century); I clearly indicate that this is a sort of spectrum, steps and actions can be taken earlier than Bush that only comes to full fruition during the GWB Admin.

I think it's also questionable to describe Trump's policies as "making progress"; it's all show, if anything I'd give credit perhaps to the South Korean administration, Trump did not do anything that will have lasting significance; it's him chasing headlines and North Korea taking advantage of it Biden cannot destroy what does not exist.

I'm also not exactly sure what Obama's North Korean policies have to do with anything, he had sanctions placed on an authoritarian regime doing authoritarian things; but I don't think this fits neatly in the narrative of disarmament acting as a prelude to regime change; which is what my original point is in reference to. There's a clear difference between the bad faith foreign policy aspirations of the neocons in comparison with the liberal international relations paradigm.

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.
So I read from the BBC that there's this recently released movie called The Mole which claims to show 3 men going undercover to make sanctions-evading deals with North Korean officials. I had no idea that the North Korean government has been building secret facilities in Africa to produce guns and drugs:

quote:

At one point, during a meeting in Kampala in 2017, Latrache-Qvortrup is asked by "Mr Danny" (described as a "North Korean arms dealer") whether he would be able to deliver North Korean weaponry to Syria. The question reflects North Korea's increasing difficulty in doing this for itself, Griffiths said.

"Mr James" is in Uganda, accompanied by some of the same North Korean officials seen in Pyongyang, to discuss the purchase of an island in Lake Victoria. Ugandan officials are told it's for the construction of a luxury resort, but Mr James and the Koreans are secretly planning to build an underground factory to manufacture weapons and drugs.

Again, it seems fantastical, but North Korea has done this sort of thing before. The regime built an ammunition factory at a disused copper mine in the Leopard Valley in Namibia. Ostensibly, they were in the country to build statues and monuments.

The activities of the Korea Mining Development Trading Corporation (Komid) were investigated by the UN Panel of Experts between 2015 and 2018. UN pressure on Namibia may help explain why the North Koreans, who in the film initially suggest building there again, switched their attention to Uganda, said Griffiths.

"North Korean projects in Namibia were effectively shut down," the former UN official said. "By 2018, Uganda was one of the very few African countries… where North Korean arms brokers could still travel at will."

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

I'm watching it right now actually (it's been picked up by Norwegioan public TV for free streaming) and it's kind of crazy stuff.

That Spanish Korean Friendship Association leader seems like a real piece of work.

GoatSeeGuy
Dec 26, 2003

What if Jerome Walton made me a champion?


Randarkman posted:

I'm watching it right now actually (it's been picked up by Norwegioan public TV for free streaming) and it's kind of crazy stuff.

That Spanish Korean Friendship Association leader seems like a real piece of work.

BBC has it too, and it's very much worth a watch even if those kids are never gonna get that hospital...

That plot snippet doesn't even do this justice, it just keeps getting more and more batshit until the final cherry on top. Is it bad that my first thought afterward (no spoilers) was what was likely to happen to the various North Koreans and their families now that they've been outed?

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
There's been a bit of a stir lately after a Harvard professor (who notably, while white, grew up in Japan and won Japanese sponsorship) wrote a journal article asserting Comfort Women were willing prostitutes:

https://twitter.com/JeannieSGersen/status/1358267692256493568

Apparently the guy also wrote a paper a couple of years ago, relying on period Japanese reports (lol?), that asserts basically that the Koreans killed in the Kanto Massacre deserved it. Anyway he's been getting pretty resounding pushback both from outraged Koreans and from a bunch of academics, but Harvard has yet to even comment which has some people pretty peeved.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

North korea has launched 2 missiles into the Sea of Japan.

THE MAN MAKETH THE MISSILE FIRE

Shadow0
Jun 16, 2008


If to live in this style is to be eccentric, it must be confessed that there is something good in eccentricity.

Grimey Drawer

Mods!

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

I wonder what Kim wants this time.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Kim wants trump to be president again.

He will kill all of Japan if his demands aren't met

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Biden's take on NK missiles (during hearings): We'll respond accordingly. Diplomacy must be conditioned upon denuclearization. Consulting with allies.

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009

Grouchio posted:

Biden's take on NK missiles (during hearings): We'll respond accordingly. Diplomacy must be conditioned upon denuclearization. Consulting with allies.

So... I think it's been pretty clear for a while now that NK isn't giving up it's nukes for anything. Maybe it's time condition diplomacy on something else.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Charliegrs posted:

So... I think it's been pretty clear for a while now that NK isn't giving up it's nukes for anything. Maybe it's time condition diplomacy on something else.

no then the savage koreans win, maybe a few more decades of sanctions will do the trick...

Kavros
May 18, 2011

sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

Grouchio posted:

I wonder what Kim wants this time.

Actually a bit anxious to find out what the preparatory antagonism is for. Like, it'll probably work and there won't be substantial acceleration, but each time this cycle starts up I get fretful messages from family.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

It's not prepatory. This is a response to DCs language changing to "denuclearize NK" from "denuclearize the peninsula".

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer
Wait does that mean the south koreans have the bomb too? I mean they certainly could...

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009

exmachina posted:

Wait does that mean the south koreans have the bomb too? I mean they certainly could...

The South Koreans don't have the bomb but they have the US and we have the bomb so it's basically the same thing.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer
I know. But why the change in language then?

Kavros
May 18, 2011

sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

It's not prepatory. This is a response to DCs language changing to "denuclearize NK" from "denuclearize the peninsula".

It would be very out of character and trend with them if it was not preparatory in advance of trying to set up better material trade conditions. The pandemic has been horrific on what measurable commerce of the nation exists to publicly observe and quantify, the damage is not really fully known, and I will not be surprised if this is the run-up effort to attempting to open more manufactured goods or grey market trade.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Isn't this just a response to the joint exercises recently conducted after Biden successfully renegotiated the SK military financial impasse that Trump caused? I recall seeing NK putting out their standard angry response to the joint exercises that made me hear about the latest bomb in the sea and go "ah, there's the retaliation."

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

exmachina posted:

I know. But why the change in language then?

Because Biden's foreign policy people think it's a concession to the North Koreans to imply that we don't have the right to move nuclear weapons into South Korea whenever we feel like it.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Bokbunja is by far the best mass market Korean alcoholic beverage.

If you really want to get ridiculously fancy and spend more than :10bux: then you can get 대나무주 from North Korea, but let's be real. No Korean is spending $40 on alcohol unless it's a western import.

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Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

There's another brand that's only like two bucks but it only shows up in weird markets. No idea how the fancy red bottle people get away with charging seven. Single-handedly holding raspberry wine back from its rightful place alongside soju and beer as widely consumed staple alcohol.

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