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c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.
That's the best part with NK, all theories are plausible.

That said, I don't think the North Korean people are stupid and most see through many of the lies. Obviously a percentage are fully indoctrinated but based on what I've seen in the limited documentaries available, most see the wood for the trees and are just trying to live their lives in the system they are under.

I'm perhaps naïvely optimistic on the eventual reunification. Its obviously going to require reconstruction on a scale unseen before, but the Koreans culturally have a strong work ethic and interest in rebuilding--it could not be more diametrically different situation than the nation building attempted in the Middle East over the last 50 years. I recognize those who say China wants it as a buffer because why wouldn't you if you have the option, but when the walls fall they're not going to want to single handedly foot the bill/deal with refugees.

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c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.
SK is really nice and I highly recommend visiting. Old palaces are pretty boring but the food and drinking culture is among the best of anywhere I've been.

Soju is the strangest spirit--you seem to get punch drunk immediately and it wears off equally fast with minimal hangover.

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.
I swear if reunification happens in my lifetime I want a tell all book of what actually occurred during all of these types of events. It'd be nice to get closure.

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.

Uncle Jam posted:

Massive pre emptive strikes are also pure fantasy, so I don't really understand what the point is I guess.

I hope you're not this frustrating in real life.

You made a glib comment, someone responded, after a couple back and forth statements you tell the other person that this is all pointless anyway after being proved incorrect.

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

You're probably right and it is may well be something he did, but I really feel like we should wait for some sort of evidence of personal misconduct before blaming the victim.

I looked over his public profile on Fbook when the news broke because I assumed he'd be some sort of ultra-Christian as they are the primary people who seem to get arrested these days. However he appears to be a normal, fun-having, well educated college student without an axe to grind for religion, politics, or other ideology.

Will be interested to see what exactly got him arrested. It was while he was leaving the country for what it's worth.

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.

Juffo-Wup posted:

The US has no such policy, unless I am mistaken.

Obama stated this was his policy, though it's not the formal doctrine.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/06/19/fact-sheet-nuclear-weapons-employment-strategy-united-states

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.
He's still useful as a bargaining chip 10 years from now ya dumbie.

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.

nm posted:

Which is exactly why he isn't going to keel over and die if NK can help it.

On that comment we were responding to the same guy you had just got a comment in before me so it didn't flow right.

c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.
I really don't see what the nuclear weapons are providing them except for being some sort of domestic reassurance that everyone is still suffering for a reason.

What would they even gain at this point from a legit ICBM and warhead?

It's not 1985 anymore, hell it's not even like 2000.

While globalization has brought a lot of poo poo into the world in certain aspects, people are way more hesitant to gently caress with other countries because so much capital is interwoven.

There is really nothing more for NK to gain for continuing this path. They thought continuing here would get them better bargaining in relief but that clearly hasn't worked in over a decade and will definitely not work in the future. We're not going to trade them a snack pack in return for not punching someone in the arm--its a nuclear weapon and will turn everyone against them even more if it's ever sensed as anything but empty domestic-pointed dialogue.

So where do the leaders of NK go from here? That's the bigger question I'm curious about since the world has fundamentally left them in the past even more.

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c0ldfuse
Jun 18, 2004

The pursuit of excellence.

mediadave posted:

Does anyone disagree that, putting Tom Clancy fanfiction aside, ultimately the US will need to attempt to do a deal with North Korea? The problem is that neither side trusts the other. Neither side kept to the 1994 agreed framework - North Korea did shut down its plutonium programme for the duration but probably did start smallscale uranium projects, and the US certainly never provided the Light Water reactors that it had agreed to. The six party talks never went anywhere, and really it was clear North Korea wasn't interested in those talks - China had to keep strongarming them to come.

Its a common trope that North Korea is only building nukes in order to get a deal, get food aid or whatever, but really it would be a lot easier if that was the case. North Korea just really wants the nukes.

This was the point of my post which no one really addressed. It almost has to be for domestic reasons going forward from here.

What does NK leadership do now? Or even if they make ICBM warhead capable nukes.

There isn't any tangible benefits due to amount of capital invested in so many different economies due to globalization.

For example, everyone loves to (reasonably) bitch about Chinese real estate and other major major investment in the Americas but do you think at the levels it's occurring it wouldn't have an effect on China's response if a US-NK dick swinging contest starts making markets super volatile?

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