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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Koramei posted:

Is it bad relative to our naval spending or just not bad at all then? I've read no shortage of people complaining about it (which evidently I took to be a very authoritative source).
People like to hurf durf about apocryphal stories of "Those Plucky (Insert Tiny Country Here)" sinking mighty US warships and thus proving that the US is really bad at everything always.

The truth is that if you know what you're doing with a diesel-electric sub you can make yourself incredibly difficult to find. The downside of course is that you can't do it for very long or very far from home and once you start moving you're easy to find again.

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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I don't think any of our 2 diesel subs operational since they sprung leaks and England refused to fix them after selling them to us.
I was just reading about that. Boy the Brits really hosed you poor Canucks on that deal.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

A big flaming stink posted:

that would be one hell of a trick. Kim jong ill appears after death to prove divinity claims once and for all
Volvo makes a car so safe it can bring you back from the dead.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

According to the CIA's World Factbook the US is number 18 behind a bunch of Pacific and Caribbean islands, Kuwait, Belize, Qatar, and Egypt. With the rest of the Arabian Peninsula and South/Central America not far behind.

Japan wins at #157 as the thinnest country not currently the recipient of UN food aid.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 29, 2014

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Chomskyan posted:

The North's claim to the rest of the Korean Peninsula is substantively different from it's claim to it's own territorial waters.
Except they aren't North Korea's territorial waters, seeing as there are a bunch of South Koreans living there and North Korea has never had legal or military control of the area.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Chomskyan posted:

They are North Korea's territorial waters under customary international law (waters under 12 nautical miles from the coast of any given nation are considered territorial). So actually, in a legal sense the islands should belong to North Korea.
The 12 mile limit does not include islands. You don't get to claim legal ownership of other people's homes because they happen to be near your coast.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Pope Guilty posted:

Yeah, for your claim to be valid, that island has to be in a different hemisphere.
Any country that can pull off Black Buck deserves to keep all the tiny, barely inhabitable, sheepfucking islands they want.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Main Paineframe posted:

Eh, basically every war over the previous century has shown the foolishness of thinking that a bit of superior technology will effortlessly crush half-starved conscripts
North Korea would starve to death in a single winter if the army was forced to take the field rather than plant rice.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

JeffersonClay posted:

China's gdp is about 800 times larger than north korea's, they could support the entire country indefinitely if they desired.
Because this is totally how food aid works and infrastructure is a non-factor.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Chomskyan posted:

The artillery pieces are hidden, and sheltered in caves etc
Not caves!

The wily Kim regime has once again foiled the plots of the dastardly West by the use of holes in the ground. The one thing nobody in a position to design bombs ever thought of.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Grouchio posted:

Wishful propaganda or actual threats? I would like to hear your take.
Option 3: Same poo poo they've been saying for years.

North Korea's military is a total joke that could probably be defeated by humanitarian air drops.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Cliff Racer posted:

As to their capabilities, we'll have to wait for the mil nerds to analyze pictures of the missile launchers to see how advanced (or even how fake) they are.
That parade had T-34-85s in it. A tank that was obsolete in 1945.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Dusty Baker 2 posted:

Also T-34/76s, which were obsolete a few years prior.
I'm honestly surprised there are T-34s still running in North Korea. I wonder if they've re-engined them.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Dusty Baker 2 posted:

Imagine being the country that received those.
IIRC some country in Central America was still rocking Stuarts up until like 2008.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

LORD OF BUTT posted:

The funny thing is, that article's technically true. If the USA went to war with North Korea (whether via an attack on US soil, President Trump getting a wild hair up his rear end, or whatever the hell) it would not be a particularly easy fight; they wouldn't be able to wage offensive war, but they'd be able to defend well enough to make it a big ol' pain in the dick for us, probably moreso than it'd be worth.
The only challenge would be to see if the USAF could kill them before they starved to death.

The North Korean Army is pretty much the only part of the state apparatus that is even semi-functional and if it ever mobilized the whole country would start to starve.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

The real problem on the Korean peninsula is that American action movies and Call of Duty sequels aren't realistic enough.

Someone should make a game where you deploy to the DMZ and just spend the whole game digging a poo poo trench in frozen ground.

The twist ending is that you are so constipated from an all-MRE diet that you never get to poo poo in the trench.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 13, 2016

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Cliff Racer posted:

Since when was he kidnapped? He was arrested by the police while stealing something. If this happened in the United States, with him ripping down a mural at a park visitor center or something you could expect the law to be followed just as well. Why is it the state department's job to bail him out when he's not only not being treated harsher than an average citizen caught preforming the same crime would be, but is actually being treated much more nicely. He's definitely not going to be killed either, fwiw.

I am fully in favor of North Korea taking, and hopefully keeping, as many of our morons as possible.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

mediadave posted:

I'm afraid that's literally impossible with current technology).
Boost-phase intercept is technically feasible but logistically very difficult

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Paradoxish posted:

Yeah, this is what I don't understand about the arguments being made in this thread and elsewhere about a functional delivery system meaningfully changing things.
Nobody wants to play ICBM roulette if Fat Leader falls down the stairs tomorrow. A Kim with a nuclear missile is bad. A game of nuclear hot potato in a post-Kim power struggle is worse.

Having an ICBM means the whole world suddenly becomes invested in your government not collapsing.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Burt Buckle posted:

Nuke these motherfuckers.
Apple unveils the iNuke. A sleek and modern atomic weapon with iTunes integration and an intuitive one-button UI.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Telephones posted:

Why does NK demand total submission to whoever is at the top? Why do they continue to promote the cult of the Kim family? By they I mean those in charge whoever they may be.
Because everyone at the top knows that the second they aren't at the top any more they're dead. There is no realistic change of leadership scenario in NK that doesn't involve lots of bullets in heads.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Further proof that Delaware has no right to exist.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Mr. Nice! posted:

But I agree let the BMD shooters just doing circles in the ocean do something instead of just sitting there.
I don't think anyone is enthusiastic about giving every radar in East Asia a good look at a real life BMD intercept.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Grouchio posted:

Is it possible for Twitter to outright ban Trump?
Sure, but why would they? He's got to be awesome for free advertising.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Conspiratiorist posted:

You have no concept of how huge Twitter is.
Have they actually posted a profit yet?

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

I like all these WW3 scenarios where the UK doesn't eat a pile of IRBMs just because.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

whatever7 posted:

I am more interested in the rebuilding part of the new world. Like what kind of weird religion or ideology will the survivors come up with.
Read A Canticle for Leibowitz

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Sep 27, 2017

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Tias posted:

I'm sorry if this is veering too off-topic, but since we're here: Anyone know if the US strategic rocket forces leadership is still dominated by millenarian evangelical psychopaths? That one used to keep me up at night :(
Missiles is the USAF's dumping ground for incompetents and fuckups. MAD is run by guys too dumb to be trusted with important jobs but not quite dumb enough to get kicked out.

Sleep tight.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Baronjutter posted:

I could see massive pressure to come to some sort of agreement and appeasement in the 2nd situation, but not in the first.
The first scenario probably results in famine and mass desertion before the first North Korean troops even cross the DMZ. The North Korean economy is so dependant on the army acting as a labor force that mobilization would be an insane gamble.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

OneEightHundred posted:

Going from just enough interest for a low-budget stoner flick to zero interest is still a success. What matters is that anyone thinking of making a movie featuring North Korea now has to put "possible highly-damaging state-sponsored cyberattack" in the cost column, even if it's just a lovely low-budget comedy that's probably going to flop in theaters anyway.
I wonder how much of its revenue that move made based solely on the North Korean cyber attack theory.

Are we sure Sony didn't just go "Yup, North Korea! We definitely didn't have the password set to "password" on the server containing IncriminatingEmails.zip.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Zophar posted:

If you have only a handful of nuclear devices and an invasion is underway, shooting them across the ocean into a massive, decentralized country is not a very good strategic decision.
Launching them at all is not a very good strategic decision. It simply guarantees the highest possible level of destruction at home. Once it has become clear your deterrent has failed actually using the weapons is just revenge.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Gnumonic posted:

There was an article in the NYTimes a few weeks ago about funding approved for a fleet of drones to essentially hover outside of North Korean territory constantly to shoot down ICBMS in the boost phase. Obviously something like that wouldn't work against Russia or China (because Russia and China are massive territories with thousands of ICBMs, and wouldn't tolerate our drones), but is there any reason something like that couldn't work in NK?
Other than the fact that neither the drones nor the lasers currently exist?

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Conspiratiorist posted:

On the other hand, this is the Pentagon we're talking about, so I'm sure they can find a way to write a proposal that diverts funds away from sorely needed social and infrastructure programs, and into the ever-hungry maws of the defense industry.
The 6th Gen fighter will be a hypersonic VTOL stealth anti-missile space superiority bomber that doubles as a cruiser for the Navy and a low-cost SHORAD platform for the Army.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Sinteres posted:

There are a number of experts saying this thing is closer to setting off than people realize.
There's never any shortage of "experts" who will predict the end of the world to promote their blog/new book.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Sinteres posted:

North Korea has good reason to be concerned when we engage in military drills simulating attacks on them, because using one as cover for an actual attack wouldn't be the worst way to do it (though maybe North Korea's state of alarm when we do them would reduce the advantage of our own heightened readiness, who knows).
If the US wanted to bomb North Korea it is perfectly capable of doing it from Nebraska.

I mean, as much fun as it is to get worked up over the Kim regime's 64th annual "We're totally gonna do it this time!" let's not pretend that anyone in the US wants to do anything but maintain the status quo. Blowing up Korea would make a lot of very rich people slightly less rich, and that's the cardinal sin of American politics.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Dec 5, 2017

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

I'd be surprised if there isn't a self destruct capability on the ABM interceptors. With all the velocity those things have after a miss it wouldn't take much to turn them into a multi-hundred square kilometer shotgun blast of debris.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Mozi posted:

US interceptors don't explode, they're just a solid projectile that tries to hit the missile (to the best of my knowledge). If they miss they will just keep flying.
They wouldn't even need to explode. A sharp control input could probably turn the whole thing into confetti. At high mach just getting the airframe tumbling should be plenty destructive.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Conspiratiorist posted:

Read, motherfucker.
It's not that people aren't reading your post. It's the it's wrong and dumb.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Conspiratiorist posted:

Kindly elaborate.
There is no scenario in which using a nuclear weapon against infrastructure, such as in an EMP attack, does not provoke an overwhelmingly destructive response. Using a nuclear weapon as an EMP generator is both less scary, and less destructive than using it to blow a giant hole in a city. Since both use cases will provoke exactly the same response, and the hole-in-city case is both more destructive and has a higher deterrent value, EMPs are loving stupid.

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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Conspiratiorist posted:

EMP is a perfectly viable use for nuclear weapons
You keep saying this.

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