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Shifty Pony posted:Step 2: Aggressively target environments where alcohol is consumed to instill the message that you don't have to drink to have a good time in an attempt to roll back the last 2,200 years or so of alcohol lifestyle marketing making beer/wine/etc synonymous and implicitly/explicitly needed for fun/class/sophistication/etc. Fixed that for you. I mean booze has been a huge part of having fun in social situations in the western world since the Greek polis and the Roman republic. Hell, we're drinking substantially less these days than people in the revolutionary war era.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:18
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Amused to Death posted:Fixed that for you. I mean booze has been a huge part of having fun in social situations in the western world since the Greek polis and the Roman republic. Hell, we're drinking substantially less these days than people in the revolutionary war era. Old Kingdom egypt too so peg it at 5000 years.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:31
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hobbesmaster posted:Old Kingdom egypt too so peg it at 5000 years. Mesopotamia as well. People just like being inebriated off alcohol and in the western world it's seriously ingrained into being part of having a good time in social situations. It's good for social situations, drinking is something you can actually do and the end result is for most people it makes them more sociable, happier, ect. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 19:39
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FAGGY CLAUSE posted:The idea of one is insane. So many people drive drunk, in the tens of millions, a year in America. Texting causes more teen deaths than drunk driving. First TWD: 1 year suspension, and then must pass a safe driving course to reinstate it Second TWD: Lifetime ban First DUI: 6 month suspension, and must graduate from a safe driving course to reinstate Second DUI: 1 year suspension, and must graduate from alcoholics anonymous to reinstate Third DUI: Lifetime ban
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Oct 10, 2014 02:58
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enraged_camel posted:First TWD: 1 year suspension, and then must pass a safe driving course to reinstate it Of course if you're a cop you can use your dispatch computer all you want while driving.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:35
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One and done, you don't get to drive any more. Stop driving cars anyway, get with the eco-local paradigm shift, you drunk fuckin' louts. You don't get to drive anymore; but it's all right, I'm not angry with you. Shhh. It's OK, the nightmare of having to drive a car is over. For your first and only DUI, you're sentenced to treatment. If you're driving drunk, you're probably doing other stupid dangerous poo poo, stop that. Go to treatment. Or don't, gently caress it but if you don't you now have a case manager who follows you around like the P.I. in the volkswagen from The Big Lebowski. In any case, you're not driving any more. Now of course a policy like this would result in tons of people driving anyway. To which I respond flippantly "Oh well I guess we'd better not try to pass any laws ever then"  Or I could respond with the perspicacity of Solon, the Lawgiver 'n point out that drunk driving is an issue of driving as much as it is one of drinking. Poor people feel a sense of desperation when they look at their cars, and yet they have to maintain 'em. All they want to do is get drunk, but they can't just walk somewhere, it's far away. Increase density! Relax small business zoning in residential areas! Open the floodgates of liquor licenses into the neighborhoods! Drink at a cash bar in your neighbor's converted prefab outbuilding, with a 60 inch Samsung TV and a propane heater! Without crippling regulations that only hurt small entreprenurs. Pay for night time shuttle service with county funds! ~pay for it with savings from emergency services~ Offer drunken shitkicker 19-year-olds a choice of 1) welding classes or 2) a job on a fishing boat. A THERAPIST IS EMBEDDED IN THE CREW OF THE FISHING BOAT Ban internal combustion passenger vehicles on public roads with a curb weight of greater than 2800 pounds! *speaks in tongues* Nationalize all cab companies! The Biden's Golden Ticket Act: free rail and bus fare nationwide for the rest of your life! For everyone! or a steel road bike all laid out with Campagnolo and a Brooks saddle, ewwww look how filthy it is
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Oct 10, 2014 06:08
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HonorableTB posted:MARTA stuff Despite living in the Atlanta area for a few years now, I haven't had the opportunity to actually ride MARTA. I have, on the other hand, had the chance to ride one of several separate bus systems that sprang up in response to MARTA. Three of the counties that refused to join eventually discovered that they, too, had to have some form of transit - just not one that was controlled by people in Atlanta for the benefit of "those people." So while my car was in the shop, I had to ride the bus to pick up parts, shop for groceries, etc., and came to a few conclusions along the way: 1. Compared to MARTA, Cobb Community Transit is hilariously gimped - regular service covers only the I-75 corridor and a big swath of southern Cobb County. No service to Acworth or much of Kennesaw. No service to East Cobb, the wealthiest and whitest part of the county. No service to the rural western half of the county. That means if your car breaks down and you need to make a doctor's appointment near loving Johnson Ferry Road, you're hosed unless you pay for a cab. 2. Riding the bus gets pretty expensive relative to what it offers. For the $5.00 I had to spend on round-trip fare, I could have put that money in my gas tank and had the freedom to drive directly to the store and come back in under 15 minutes versus the 45 minutes to an hour I would had spent on the bus, waiting for the bus, etc. Of course, this is from the perspective of someone who already had a car and the means to pay for insurance, registration, repairs, etc. For someone who doesn't have a car or can't get one, they have no choice. 3. The myth about buses being an Ebola-like vector for spreading Negroidal pandemonium and chaos is bullshit. People are just trying to get to work, from work, to the stores, etc. I never saw a single stolen flatscreen TV during my time spent on the bus. 4. Atlanta drivers are poo poo. 40,000-pound buses can't stop on a dime, no matter how many times you cut in front of it. 5. Coming from a smaller city with an even smaller transit system that used smaller, crappier buses and a 6am-6pm Monday-Friday schedule, CCT felt refreshingly modern and big city-like. In short, taking the bus and walking along busy 6-7-laned roads with lovely crosswalks and lovely or nonexistent sidewalks just to get something to eat or, God forbid, get to work, sucks. It's a troublesome activity that's gleefully bypassed by anyone who can afford themselves a car. And we expect people with DUIs or a few too many beers to use public transit. There are too many underlying problems that have to be fixed for that to happen. Rhymenoserous posted:Just require people blow start their car with the amount of time the unit must be installed increasing with each incident. That or get the loving self driving cars already. I'd loving love to take a nap on long trips. I can see self-driving cars being a thing. Too many drivers already treat driving as an afterthought or evil necessity. Might as well have a self-driving car set up as a quasi-living room inside where you can gently caress off in general until you arrive at your destination. Or until some hacker overrides the self-driving program and sends your car hurtling into oncoming traffic. However, I also see self-driving cars as an expensive thing that'll price the poor out of driving, period, once legislation sweeps non-autonomous cars off the roads. 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 08:00
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Everyday Lurker posted:2. Riding the bus gets pretty expensive relative to what it offers. For the $5.00 I had to spend on round-trip fare, I could have put that money in my gas tank and had the freedom to drive directly to the store and come back in under 15 minutes versus the 45 minutes to an hour I would had spent on the bus, waiting for the bus, etc. Of course, this is from the perspective of someone who already had a car and the means to pay for insurance, registration, repairs, etc. For someone who doesn't have a car or can't get one, they have no choice. Bus rides are $2.50 a pop there? Dang, they just raised to $1.50 here at the beginning of the year.
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Oct 10, 2014 13:50
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Amused to Death posted:Hell, we're drinking substantially less these days than people in the revolutionary war era. speak for yourself
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Oct 10, 2014 15:13
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I've really liked MARTA from the handful of times I've visited Atlanta. Granted, I'm usually just going from ATL to the CDC or downtown/convention center but it worked great for me. Seemed a little empty/underutilized but it was very well maintained.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:17
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MARTA turned a profit for the first time ever last year, so hopefully under the management of the guy they've got running it now, it'll see some good expansion. They're already making plans to integrate MARTA with the BeltLine trails and the new streetcar they're installing that runs from downtown to Buckhead.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:41
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Shbobdb posted:I've really liked MARTA from the handful of times I've visited Atlanta. Granted, I'm usually just going from ATL to the CDC or downtown/convention center but it worked great for me. Seemed a little empty/underutilized but it was very well maintained. MARTA is handy if you stay on the trains. Most Origin/Destination pairs are not along the train line, though. Once you get a bus involved it takes much longer to get where you're going. The best thing MARTA has going for it is that you can get off the train directly at the airport terminal, which is pretty rare for American cities.
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Oct 10, 2014 18:41
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Popular Thug Drink posted:MARTA is handy if you stay on the trains. Most Origin/Destination pairs are not along the train line, though. Once you get a bus involved it takes much longer to get where you're going. The best thing MARTA has going for it is that you can get off the train directly at the airport terminal, which is pretty rare for American cities. That is nice, I've used it several times to get to the airport. Seattle's is pretty nice too, the Linc light rail that runs from downtown Seattle to SeaTac airport drops you off and it's a short (5-10 minute walk across a skybridge) to the airport proper. Last time I was out there, from getting off the train at SeaTac to getting to my gate (not counting security time) was maybe 25 minutes, including waiting on the people mover train inside the airport that goes between terminals.
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Oct 10, 2014 18:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:The best thing MARTA has going for it is that you can get off the train directly at the airport terminal, which is pretty rare for American cities. For some reason, in Canada, this is extremely rare even in cities with decent transit systems. The LRT in Calgary runs almost along the airport boundary, but they didn't build a stop at the airport itself. Montreal has a great Metro, but, hey, no airport stop. My suspicion in both cases is that the taxi lobby threw an almighty bitch at any plans to connect the airport by train, and city councils are completely beholden to the wishes of taxi companies for Reasons.
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Oct 10, 2014 18:45
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Lemming posted:All cars should have integrated breathalyzers that only let it start if you blow low enough. If you're sober enough to disable the breathalyzer you're sober enough to drive.
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Oct 10, 2014 18:56
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if my city actually gave a drat about the problem public transit would run past last call and cab rides for drunks would be subsidized but they're not because it's easier to scapegoating addicts to appease modern day prohibitionists. we could ban all the drunks we want from driving but there'll be more cases and more hand wringing and the laws will become more vindictive each time. it won't solve a loving thing but it'll make people feel that much better about whatever car full of high schoolers killed themselves that year.
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Oct 10, 2014 18:58
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If they take your license away for life after one DUI then the courts will lose too much money.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:01
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Alereon posted:Why do people seem to think that a .08 BAC isn't significant impairment? If you can't walk right you sure as gently caress shouldn't be driving, and that's a significant number of drinks for your average guy. Really, if you feel impaired then you are VERY loving impaired. I'm a loving drunk. I have been since I was 13, which was almost 30 years ago. So, I feel somewhat qualified to answer this question. I could probably make people think I was completely sober even if my blood alcohol level was lethal to the majority of humanity. Would I drive drunk? gently caress no. There is a very weird disconnect between knowing you shouldn't do something and being a drunk or addict, however. I've driven drunk, but not since I was in my early 20's. I think I came to realize how loving stupid I was, and I just parked my car and stopped. Everyone can't do that, however. I don't know what the mechanism is, but I think really, people are just simply loving idiots. You can multiply that idiot rate for drunks and addicts by 1000. You might do it once and get away with it, which will reinforce the idea that you are ok. Do it twice, get away with it and you have more reinforcement that you are fine. People don't do it for fun, they do it because they are hosed up. That is not an excuse. We should punish the poo poo out of people for driving drunk and high. There isn't any excuse for it. Edit: actually I drove to work drunk every day for years. so yeah, I'm one of those assholes. Pohl fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 19:37
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Volcott posted:It would just be far too easy to blow over the limit if you decide to have two stiff drinks with dinner instead of one. Mistakes happen. After getting a DUI, I'd assume most people would be more careful about their drinking habits. If you are so drunk after having two stiff drinks with dinner that you get pulled over, you deserve a ticket.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:47
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Pohl posted:If you are so drunk after having two stiff drinks with dinner that you get pulled over, you deserve a ticket. So only minorities deserve DUIs?
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Oct 10, 2014 20:16
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Pohl posted:If you are so drunk after having two stiff drinks with dinner that you get pulled over, you deserve a ticket. What about sobriety checkpoints? Admittedly, I was pulled out at one after three drinks. Although they let me go after I passed the mental/balance tests, if I had been a bit more nervous, I most certainly would have gotten a DUI. (that was enough of an experience to get me to always lug out the bike and head the 2 miles to a lightrail station, by the way) Better public transport infrastructure is the best bet here, but that's a pipe dream. In more cities than not, driving is a de facto requirement to a successful American life. One-and-done is incredibly punishing, especially if it's "only" endangerment. Two I could see.
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Oct 10, 2014 20:24
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The presence or absence of public transit really has no bearing on "how harshly should people with DUIs get punished". If you live in an area without adequate public transit, then you need to make other arrangements before drinking heavily. Have a designated driver, call a cab, call a family member; anything at all. Saying that "oh there's no buses running or train stops nearby, guess I'll just drive drunk" is not an excuse.
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Oct 10, 2014 20:55
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f#a# posted:(that was enough of an experience to get me to always lug out the bike and head the 2 miles to a lightrail station, by the way) You know you can get a DUI on a bicycle. Same penalty against your drivers license too. Same goes for boats and horses.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:13
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jivjov posted:The presence or absence of public transit really has no bearing on "how harshly should people with DUIs get punished". If you live in an area without adequate public transit, then you need to make other arrangements before drinking heavily. Have a designated driver, call a cab, call a family member; anything at all. Saying that "oh there's no buses running or train stops nearby, guess I'll just drive drunk" is not an excuse. My friends are all drunk, my family is all drunk, don't have $45 for a cab. Now what do I do? hobbesmaster posted:You know you can get a DUI on a bicycle. Same penalty against your drivers license too. Same goes for boats and horses. Yeah but if you're so drunk you get a DUI on a bicycle we should all thank the heavens you weren't actually driving a car. If you get a DUI on a horse you probably have the best story to tell and are potentially a hero. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 21:26
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Amused to Death posted:My friends are all drunk, my family is all drunk, don't have $45 for a cab. Now what do I do? But is the potential risk to pedestrians and other drivers really worth those 2 beers? I mean I understand the problem, it's another "gently caress the poor" issue, but it feels like people are comparing it to a speeding ticket because you had to get your wife in labor to the hospital. The latter can be justified because you are weighing the pros and cons of making sure your wife and child get into a sterile environment most accommodating for labor versus the other people on the road, but in the former you're talking about having a few beers. How badly does one need that?
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Oct 10, 2014 21:36
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mastershakeman posted:So only minorities deserve DUIs? I'm not understanding what you mean, help me out. f#a# posted:What about sobriety checkpoints? Admittedly, I was pulled out at one after three drinks. Although they let me go after I passed the mental/balance tests, if I had been a bit more nervous, I most certainly would have gotten a DUI. I really don't know. Personally, I think they are complete bullshit but they also serve a purpose. What the purpose is however, isn't always clear. Don't drive drunk. People have made a lot of arguments in past threads about why they or someone else may need to drive drunk. Just don't do it.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:58
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RagnarokAngel posted:How badly does one need that? Quite badly in many cases probably given alcohols almost ubiquitous nature as part of socialization when going out, or as a stress reliever. I think punishments should also be on a scale going by BAC, not just a line where if you're over it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law if you're .08 which for many people would barely have them buzzed or .19 which for almost everyone you're going to be drunk.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:06
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Pohl posted:I'm not understanding what you mean, help me out. You're arguing anyone who gets pulled over and ticketed deserves it. Your skin color largely determines if you're pulled over. Probably every person in this thread has committed a DUI, just like everyone's likely looked at their phone while driving. But you get away with it, therefore only those who are caught are to blame, even if it's essentially a random sampling.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:07
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Amused to Death posted:Bus rides are $2.50 a pop there? Dang, they just raised to $1.50 here at the beginning of the year. Aforementioned small city with the 6-to-6 schedule charges $1 per ride or $0.50 with the student discount. I didn't have a car throughout high school and my first couple of semesters of college, so I appreciated that.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:45
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PT6A posted:For some reason, in Canada, this is extremely rare even in cities with decent transit systems. The LRT in Calgary runs almost along the airport boundary, but they didn't build a stop at the airport itself. Montreal has a great Metro, but, hey, no airport stop. My suspicion in both cases is that the taxi lobby threw an almighty bitch at any plans to connect the airport by train, and city councils are completely beholden to the wishes of taxi companies for Reasons. It's because Canadian airports are almost universally super far away from the city proper. Like, really really far away. YVR is the only Canadian airport I've ever been to that is even somewhat close to the city proper.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:52
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For the record, I work in a city with a completely free bus system which runs until 3am, and people still constantly drive drunk.
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Oct 10, 2014 23:10
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mastershakeman posted:You're arguing anyone who gets pulled over and ticketed deserves it. Your skin color largely determines if you're pulled over. I think you really took what I said wrong if this is what you believe I meant. I agree with you 100%. Pohl fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 00:42
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jivjov posted:The presence or absence of public transit really has no bearing on "how harshly should people with DUIs get punished". If you live in an area without adequate public transit, then you need to make other arrangements before drinking heavily. Have a designated driver, call a cab, call a family member; anything at all. Saying that "oh there's no buses running or train stops nearby, guess I'll just drive drunk" is not an excuse. Drunk driving is a policy issue, not a morality play. "Is there any way else to get around town?" is a valid factor to take into any approaach to the issue, Unless you think you can stop a US population in the aggregate from getting drunk in general which is hilarious.
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Oct 11, 2014 02:15
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SedanChair posted:One and done, you don't get to drive any more. Stop driving cars anyway, get with the eco-local paradigm shift, you drunk fuckin' louts. You don't get to drive anymore; but it's all right, I'm not angry with you. Shhh. It's OK, the nightmare of having to drive a car is over. I am more than 50% in agreement with SedanChair. Send help.
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Oct 11, 2014 02:46
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Amused to Death posted:My friends are all drunk, my family is all drunk, don't have $45 for a cab. Now what do I do? Wait til you sober up instead of endangering innocent people.
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Oct 11, 2014 02:55
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jivjov posted:Wait til you sober up instead of endangering innocent people. Sleeping it off in your car is a good way to get a DUI.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:02
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The long term solution is self driving cars. In the short term, it's a tough call. I have loving zero moral tolerance for drunken driving, but making it so poor people have no way to get to work is also terrible. A mincome takes care of that, but that's sadly a pipe-dream, or at least just as long term of a solution as self-driving cars. I have no interest in vengeance, and it's not effectively punishment if it's permanent, because no learning and behavior correction will occur. I would support a sort of free cab system (perhaps with a tax refund for anyone who doesn't use it). Only if there is a reasonable alternative should extremely harsh consequences be meted out. Because this: Amused to Death posted:My friends are all drunk, my family is all drunk, don't have $45 for a cab. Now what do I do? If its available and you still choose to drive drunk then gently caress you and you shouldnt drive again until a mental health expert OKs it. If you lose your job because you were an rear end in a top hat, then you can go live and work at one of the WPA camps that also exist in the world I'm imagining that actually solves problems instead of just loving people over constantly. Amused to Death posted:Quite badly in many cases probably given alcohols almost ubiquitous nature as part of socialization when going out, or as a stress reliever. Shbobdb posted:Beep boop. I am a robot. People should only drink alone in their own homes. Beep boop.  I am so cool and social that I need to drink everywhere, but not quite enough to arrange for a DD or a cab.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:07
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hobbesmaster posted:Sleeping it off in your car is a good way to get a DUI. Then don't sleep in your car. If the scenario is "had too many drinks while out at dinner", then stay at the restaurant and socialize, take a walk around the local shopping center, if the restaurant is near/in one. Or, ideally, have a designated driver and bypass the entire issue. Seriously, what is so hard to grasp about "don't drive drunk and risk killing people"? I keep seeing all these justifications of why someone would have to drive drunk and they are all lousy excuses that just proves that you're a sociopath with zero understanding of how other people's lives matter.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:07
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hobbesmaster posted:Sleeping it off in your car is a good way to get a DUI. And I think no one here is defending that idiocy. It's right up there with peeing in the bushes on the side of the highway putting you on the sex offender registry. We can be vehemently opposed to actually endangering others intentionally without supporting all the laws that currently exist, you know.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:09
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jivjov posted:The presence or absence of public transit really has no bearing on "how harshly should people with DUIs get punished". Without adequate public transport, it can be impossible to be employed. "must have valid drivers licence" is a pretty common job pre-req in areas without good PT, and banning someone from driving could be destroying their career. Punishment is not the goal. I don't care if DUI's feel bad about themselves or not, I just don't want them driving while drunk. To achieve that, we have to critically analyze what is causing DUI to be a problem, and solve those issues. Once they are solved, DUI becomes a non-issue. Accepting that people are bad at planning and often get drunk when they shouldn't, and that raging about it and punishing people for it won't make our fallible grey matter start working better, here are some reasons people sometimes then choose to drive even though they know they shouldn't: 1. There is no other way to get home 2. There is no other affordable way to get home 3. They need their car the next day, and can't leave it in the city 4. It is forbidden to leave your car in the city. 5. They don't realise how drunk they are. Here are some potential solutions: 1 & 2. Have a high availability, low cost public transport system that can get people home. (Our PT used to have "roam zones" where in low housing density areas on the outskirts of the city, the bus route became loosely defined and at your request it would drop you off at your house and then go back to the route). 3 & 4. Subsidized Rent-a-Driver service, guy brings a little fold-up motorbike with him, drives you and your car home, bikes back to the city, does the same for someone else. 5. Sponsor a campaign to get free snacks from the bar if you bretho on the way out. You know what's not going to solve these issues? Yelling at people. SA recently instigated "new rules to protect P platers" (P platers are new drivers, allowed to drive on their own but still inexperienced). One of the rules is "p platers cannot drive after midnight". A friend of mine (who was on their P's) was over at my place, we lost track of time and they had to go home after midnight. They had work the next day, and work required the car, so they couldn't leave it at mine. After a brief consultation, we decided that the best thing to do would be break a second law by not putting the P plates on the car. There was no choice about not going to work, or they'd have lost their job (minimum wage, casual position, very replaceable). The penalty (loss of licence) was the same whether they broke one law or two, so why put a big red "arrest me" flag on the back of the car? These issues that drive people to DUI will continue driving people to DUI no matter the penalty. Stamping down harder will result in evasive behavior, because you're putting people between a rock and a hard place. Removing the rock is the solution.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:11
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