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This thread is insane and represents everything wrong with the American fixation on imposing maximum punishments and using heavy police enforcement in lieu of sound social policy. Also, the idea of status punishments that last "forever" and restrict basic civil rights is blatantly unethical and unconstitutional. And if someone pipes up with "driving is a privilege not a right" then I will stab them in the eye with the Privileges and Immunities Clause of my pocket constitution. That drivel is the "Evolution is just a Theory  " of constitutional law.
Kaal fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 07:28
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Aeka 2.0 posted:We should fix what a DUI is first. You can get one by getting your sweater out of your car or by sleeping in your car as well, all while never touching the ignition in your car. Completely agreed. The fact is that BAC testing is still pretty unreliable, and that cops have an extremely wide latitude for making subjective accusations of drunk driving that are extremely hard to defend against. Unsurprisingly, this is reflected by DUI demographic statistics that are exactly as biased as one would suspect.
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Oct 9, 2014 07:48
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Jagchosis posted:In what sense does the Privileges and Immunities clause have any practical application if you are not Clarence Thomas? Do you want to overturn Slaughterhouse so you can DUI? Not only is the Freedom of Movement embodied in the Privileges and Immunities Clause, but it also explicitly points out that "privileges" are extremely important and effectively synonymous with the citizen rights that were later detailed in the constitutional amendments. Kaal fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 07:59
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Cicero posted:The 2nd amendment says you have the right to bear arms but if you commit a serious crime we take that right away. I don't see how a DUI is any different. Are you suggesting that the American government should start permanently restricting basic civil rights because someone causes endangerment? Because I've got to tell you: There's a whole lot of things in the world that endanger people's lives. The gimme answers are using a cellphone or other electronic device while driving, which is considered twice as distracting as a driver with a BAC of .08, or speeding, which is a factor in far more crashes than drunk driving. But realistically there's all sorts of things that "endanger other's lives", whether in a car or out of one, as I'm sure you can imagine. 50 million Americans get sick from contaminated food each year, killing 3,000 and hospitalizing more than 100,000, but I don't think that we'd be better off for banning unsafe cooks from ever using stoves again. Punishment needs to be appropriate, proportional, and limited. Otherwise it's cruel and unusual. Kaal fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 08:29
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Jagchosis posted:Do you need a driver's license for freedom of movement between the states? With enough gumption, saliva and suppression of gag reflexes you can travel anywhere in the country for free (unlike private ownership of a car). Also, I'm pretty sure the article iv privileges and immunities business only applies to interstate travel, not intrastate travel. Ah yes, the famous, "Why are civil rights important when you can just prostitute yourself" legal argument of 1874.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:36
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Drinking-related crashes are really just the tip of the iceberg, there are five other common (indeed MORE common) driving behaviors that cause unnecessary crashes and fatalities: 1. Distracted Driving. According to studies, 50-75% of driving accidents are distraction-related. This can include speaking with passengers, using electrical devices, or looking at the scenery. As such, cameras should be installed in all cars and any driver that is not actively monitoring the road should be automatically ejected from the vehicle. 2. Driver Fatigue. At least 30% of vehicular crashes are directly caused by driver fatigue, and due to lax awareness and enforcement many, many more crashes are fatigue-related and escape public notice. Perhaps 80% of crashes could be averted if drivers had sufficient amounts of sleep. In order to prevent this blight on the public, all drivers with less than 8 hours of sleep in the last 24 hours should be imprisoned for not less than 20 years - just like Rip Van Winkle. 3. Speeding. Everyone speeds, mostly because roads are designed for much higher speeds than the posted limits and typically it is perfectly safe. Indeed some small towns are notorious for implementing confusing signage specifically in order to fine speeders. But the reality of legalized highway banditry should not interfere with our pursuit of the public safety: Everyone knows that Speeding Kills. In this light, all suspected speeders should be summarily executed. 4. Aggressive Driving. As a result of our pervasive car-culture interacting with our abject lack of driver-education, aggressive-related driving is one the leading causes of unnecessary accidents. It can involve tailgating, failure to signal, weaving between lanes, passing on the right, and even verbal and physical confrontations with other drivers. Fortunately, unlike socially progressive European countries, the United States knows that this kind of behavior is totally normal and deserves nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Aggressive drivers should receive medals for being more American than other drivers. 5. Weather. Weather causes all sorts of delays and accidents, and a thorough study of what all the different US states say about out of state drivers yields the conclusion that no driver is capable of driving in any form of weather. In a separate yet equally shocking study, weather-related crashes account for 100% of fatal accidents. As such, anyone driving in any weather should be charged with felony reckless endangerment, and then fined $400,000 and their assets seized. If there are children in the car then they should be sent to CPS, regardless of guardianship.
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Oct 12, 2014 04:31
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crabcakes66 posted:Is this the thread where we craft our arguments around not being able to control everything and so we shouldn't even bother trying to control anything or punish bad behavior? I love that thread. No this is the thread where we come up with absurd punishments for common activities that will inevitably end up being used to primarily target minorities. I think the thread you're looking for is in Ask/Tell.
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Oct 12, 2014 04:43
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crabcakes66 posted:Yeah. You listed weather as something comparable to drunk driving. Your opinion means poo poo. Jokes on you, twice as many people are killed in weather-related accidents each year than people killed in accidents involving drivers with less than .1 BAC, which for an average-weight guy would mean chugging a beer every 10 minutes for an hour.
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Oct 12, 2014 05:02
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Yeah gently caress making sound policy based on statistics, what we really need are knee-jerk reactions and brutal minimum sentences! That's a recipe that has worked so well in: edit: Oh also it's pretty amusing that people are giving weather-related accidents a pass; as if the complete lack of driver education for driving in adverse weather, or laws penalizing drivers who are unresponsive or unprepared for adverse weather, was some kind of natural phenomenon that we can do nothing about. Because I simply must drive you see. There are no other options in the world, even when it creates all sorts of accidents and fatalities because why the gently caress are you driving through freezing fog? Unless you've had the devil's drink and then all bets are off. Kaal fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 06:26
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Dude you've been comparing a .08 BAC to raping and pillaging, and suggesting that we should ship people off to WPA camps for getting a DUI.
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Oct 12, 2014 06:41
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Oh you're worried about the current number of drunk driving deaths. Well I have good news for you: That number is continuing to go down every year, just like it has for the last 30 years. Alright problem solved, and I didn't even have to start shouting obscenities and splitting hairs about filling up edit: Well by problem solved I mean the problem of how drunk driving causes far fewer fatalities than MADD suggests (perhaps 10% of accidents rather than 30%), and that driving impairment isn't statistically relevant until at least >.1 BAC, which is why the average recorded DUI collision has a BAC average that is double the nominal .08 BAC limit. However, the problem of cops primarily targeting racial minorities with DUI arrests, and those arrests constituting 10% of all arrests in America, still exists. You've made it very apparent that this is not your problem though. I'm all for your perfect world where affordable self-driving cars render the entire issue moot, but that world is very distant from the problems of the real world. Kaal fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 07:00
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