|
he says he's gonna stop it but then he seems more focused on trying to get rin's mom to leave her husband for him.
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 04:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 23:06 |
|
|
Kariya was not really all there mentally.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 04:55
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Kariya was not good summary of him in general
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 05:26
|
|
|
StrixNebulosa posted:IIRC that spoiler does not come up for any other Fate game, but Tsukihime has similar trauma (nowhere near as detailed). Thanks. I'll go on to the jokier sequel for now, then, instead of trying official-localization Tsukihime immediately after, and see if I wanna hit Zero later. GateOfD posted:It’s okay, everyone knows UBW is the best route Honestly if we go full routes, yeah, that probably wins for me, but I think I do have to give some of the very end of HF my favorite scene, with the Shirou/Kotomine discussion and brawl cementing that I think, bastard that he is, Kotomine is still the most interesting character in the cast.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 05:27
|
|
|
Regarding the sequel, presuming you mean Hollow Ataraxia: Though it is clean for a good 99% of it, there is a problem scene somewhere in the second half of it. Said sequence is a one off, but it's definitely there. If you want a Type Moon thing that's TOTALLY clean, you want to try Mahoyo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 05:51
|
|
|
Heavens feel is in fact the best route because it's the grand payoff to all the stuff in fate and ubw
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 06:02
|
|
|
UBW is my favorite. Rin is a more compelling character and love interest and Archer's deal was more interesting then the Matou carnival of crimes and corruption. The Kotomine poo poo was GOATed though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 06:05
|
|
|
i think the lesson in UBW is that going the Archer route is actually bad. but screw it, the boyish sacrificial hero in my heart loves it. and the route has so many good lines for me. and best lancer scenes
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 06:46
|
|
|
GateOfD posted:i think the lesson in UBW is that going the Archer route is actually bad. "I would simply not betray my ideals." - Emiya Shirou
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 06:49
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:"I would simply not betray my ideals." - Emiya Shirou "could you explain these ideals with slightly more specificity"
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 06:52
|
|
|
claw game handjob posted:So I've got a question about... I guess just a general question about the studio and their works, I know more writers get involved over time than just Nasu. anyway, assault-type stuff comes up in the backstories of some FGO characters because, well, mythology and history, but its rarely directly addressed or lingered on outside of it informing the characters a bit. it comes up a couple times in FGO's plot directly but again, not really lingered on. its mentioned in f/z briefly cause sakura is in that too. sides that i cant think of it being mentioned anywhere in fate/apocrypha, case files, fate/strange fake, etc. i don't think its mentioned in fate/extra at all. its mentioned in ccc a little because there is A sakura there but also not really lingered on. it comes up in kara no kyoukai as the backstory for a character of the week (or well, movie, since its a series of films), and not really at all outside of that movie, and it comes up a fair bit in the original tsukihime. the remake removes most of those direct references but there is still one scene that lingers on it. also the character whose backstory is tied directly into that stuff doesnt have a route in the first remake but will whenever the second one comes out. we dont know how theyll handle it but presumably her backstory will be kept at least mostly the same. i dont think anything like that comes up in mahoyo at all. Endorph fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Feb 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 07:02
|
|
|
I don't think you can really separate UBW (in which Shirou resolves to follow his ideals even after acknowledging it will be difficult) and HF (in which Shirou is forced to navigate an extreme challenge to his ideals). FSN having such a clear thematic throughline across routes is one of the coolest things about it IMO
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 10:43
|
|
|
I like UBW best because it's resolution is more about beating up a bunch of jerks. A reconciliation ending is fine, in general, but is never really all that satisfying to me in a story that is otherwise action packed. Telling me "There are some problems you can't project an infinite amount of swords at" in the story where the best part is projecting an infinite number of swords is a real buzzkill. I wonder how seriously considered the the Sakura and Kohaku stuff was in terms of something that Nasu really wanted to write about, or if it was a concession to the market, at the time. Be interesting to see how the latter is represented in the second half of the Tsukihime remake, assuming it ever comes out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 11:44
|
|
|
Like a lot of early to mid 00's VNs it was somewhat the style of the time for darker/action VNs. The fact that Heaven's Feel has a much more comparatively nuanced approach and resolution where it can both attempt to acknowledge the trauma but also make it clear that it shouldn't define/control the characters (and also not let them use the guilt of their other actions prevent them from being able to live on and be happy) was something that made it stand out positively compared to some of its contemporaries IMO. By comparison I think the scene at the end of hollow ataraxia (which otherwise *rules*) is much more of an unpleasant swerve and I do kind of wish the Vita release had done a better job with its replacement.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 13:55
|
|
|
realta nua awkwardly papering over some aspects of HF in ways that have been walked back in adaptations is way more of a market concession than nasu choosing to write it tbh. e: even being cynical if TM were mostly concerned about pandering to a market, characters like kohaku and sakura would be very different or just not exist, frankly. You can see this in how FSN's initial audience was often, really loving weird about Sakura to the point of it seeping into the early gag material like koha-ace and carnival phantasm. Motto fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Feb 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 14:08
|
|
|
OnimaruXLR posted:I like UBW best because it's resolution is more about beating up a bunch of jerks. A reconciliation ending is fine, in general, but is never really all that satisfying to me in a story that is otherwise action packed. Telling me "There are some problems you can't project an infinite amount of swords at" in the story where the best part is projecting an infinite number of swords is a real buzzkill. I don’t think it was a concession to the market given that all the routes have sex scenes. I think it's more that a theme that nasu likes including in his work is the cycle of abuse and how it drives people. I would expect that although the specifics may be changed it’ll still be a thing in far side given that it’s a driving factor for all the tohno family drama. And hell, it may be a buzzkill but “there are problems shirou can’t solve with swords” is important too. HF may be less fun than UBW, but it’s the best route because it pulls together all the themes from earlier routes. Shirou wanting to be a superhero is first examined as an externalisation (saber), then a quasi internalisation (archer.Then finally e the mocking thing kotomine points out about his ideals(to be a hero there needs to be a villain)is applied as the villain is revealed to be someone he cares about and who has been a victim of things he can’t superhero away. There is explicitly a choice between the superhero ideals and dealing with reality in which the superhero choice is the wrong one. Shirou and saber’s ideals are never really praised in the franchise, only challenged (including by each other).
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 15:16
|
|
|
The direct parallel between Rider and Sakura is also really interesting imo. Can't remember how much that's explored in FSN rather than FHA though
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 15:24
|
|
|
The Sakura and Kohaku stuff makes more sense when you remember Nasu was a big Revolutionary Girl Utena fan
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 15:29
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:The Sakura and Kohaku stuff makes more sense when you remember Nasu was a big Revolutionary Girl Utena fan Fate/Extra CCC is basically Utena. I've never actually watched Utena, but I did play CCC recently then read a review which made the comparison so it feels legit in light of this post. Also, I just wanna say how much Archer owns in Extra and CCC. Dude really owns up to his traumas and failures and concludes he did the best he could and he'd do it again. I started the series thinking I'd use Caster or Saber just to get to know the characters better, but then I saw how if you say no to the "Are you my master?" question at the start the other two assume you're goofing around and carry on as normal while Archer peaces out and leaves you to die, I couldn't not pick him after that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 17:37
|
|
|
Kyte posted:Rogue Saber has the shortest showing of the lot and only appears when certain conditions are met. Okay, so Rogue Saber and Rogue Berserker would be priorities for skill seeds or at least until I fill the requirements for Iori. Thanks! also how do I realize only now Shinji is just Saionji all over again
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 22:47
|
|
|
Speaking of EMIYA and trauma, the Se.ra.ph manga just recently translated a section with EMIYA Alter where Kiara kind of forced him to see again what caused him to be so broken in the history he came from. It's, uh, extremely not pretty.  
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 23:31
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:Speaking of EMIYA and trauma, the Se.ra.ph manga just recently translated a section with EMIYA Alter where Kiara kind of forced him to see again what caused him to be so broken in the history he came from. It's, uh, extremely not pretty. Soooooo...Taiga shoots him? I don't know poo poo about F/GO stories.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 23:47
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:Soooooo...Taiga shoots him? I don't know poo poo about F/GO stories. I think the implication is Alternate Timeline Emiya's Hero of Justice duties sent him to clear out Kiara's extremist cult of debauchery, and found Taiga was one of them and couldn't be talked down
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 23:56
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:Soooooo...Taiga shoots him? I don't know poo poo about F/GO stories. The jist of it is there's an EMIYA Alter in FGO who is even edgier than Kiritsugu and can be said to be the "Mind of Steel" Shirou ending from HF to an extreme. The SE.RA.PH. event AKA the Extra CCC collaboration confirmed what drove him that path was something related to Kiara and having to kill a lot of innocents to get to her. The manga reveals the breaking point was having to shoot and kill Taiga, who joined Kiara's cult to help her sick child despite not believing in it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2024 23:56
|
|
|
"how edgy is EMIYA alter?"
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 00:02
|
|
|
Look, he's had a hard life. The key difference with EMIYA Alter is that he ended up broken by his ideals before he even died, as opposed to EMIYA who went to his death still holding to his ideals - it was being used time and time again by the Counter Force after his death that broke him. Though to be entirely fair, normal EMIYA didn't have to deal with Kiara popping up and turning his entire world into a gargantuan mess either. Hell, Alter wasn't even betrayed to his death like normal EMIYA - his death was faked and was kept around as an extrajudicial remover of threats by the world government. Which certainly didn't help the mental state he eventually entered the Throne in either. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Feb 20, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 00:14
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:his death was faked and was kept around as an extrajudicial remover of threats by the world government. Which certainly didn't help the mental state he eventually entered the Throne in either. ...you know, sometimes I read things like this about Emiya being a Global Illuminati liquidator, and it reminds me that, even outside of all the magibabble metaphysics and rear end in a top hat wizards and vampires and stuff, this fictional universe is weird. It's like how you sometimes forget that one of Shiro's high school teachers is a no-poo poo yakuza princess, and also one of them is loving Agent 47? Nothing to do with the Grail War, just a total coincidence. Stuff like that is just running around in the background unnoticed and only comes up when it happens to intersect the main magic plot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 00:30
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:...you know, sometimes I read things like this about Emiya being a Global Illuminati liquidator, and it reminds me that, even outside of all the magibabble metaphysics and rear end in a top hat wizards and vampires and stuff, this fictional universe is weird. It's like how you sometimes forget that one of Shiro's high school teachers is a no-poo poo yakuza princess, and also one of them is loving Agent 47? Nothing to do with the Grail War, just a total coincidence. Stuff like that is just running around in the background unnoticed and only comes up when it happens to intersect the main magic plot. But that is only one timeline or universe version of that character. In the next one they are a sous chef at a Mexican restaurant in Tokyo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 04:18
|
|
|
I've said it before, and I'll say it a million times again, the Type Mooniverse is the closest thing Japan has to Marvel and/or DC Comics, and (for me) that's a good thing!
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 05:09
|
|
|
OnimaruXLR posted:I've said it before, and I'll say it a million times again, the Type Mooniverse is the closest thing Japan has to Marvel and/or DC Comics, and (for me) that's a good thing! It's got this DC Morrison poo poo to it, it's all insane and ?kinda?maybe?might?make?sense?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 05:34
|
|
|
its just total fanwork. but i love Battle Moon Wars, I replayed it so many times. And lets play out a lot of typemoon nerd fantasies on what if so and so crossed paths.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2024 06:13
|
|
|
Finally picked up Samurai Remnant again. Iori and Saber are real fun, at first glance it reminds you of Shirou and Saber but at the same time they have a completely different chemistry and personalities and they're really endearing when bouncing each other. I'm also starting to unlock the mechanics that make the game deeper. Also I beat Rogue Berserker the very first moment I could, I'm a master at this game  Ignore it took me 3 tries, a lot of my restoratives and staying away like a coward.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2024 01:44
|
|
|
One more question about Samurai Remnant if I might. I just got Rogue Berserker as a support Servant and already used enough skill gems to get the 60 points needed to max him out at level 100. But given his lack of availability AFAIK, should I blow a few more gems on him to get him the 100~ SP to get 11 skills (and thus let me unlock the Earth skill on Iori's grid) so I can master the tree whenever I want? Or just wait till NG+ and save gems for Rogue Saber (albeit he apparently is more available on NG+ as long as you do his Disgression)
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 00:34
|
|
|
Need some verification on my initial look for Kara no Kyokai. CD Japan has first 7 movies in a nice box set, are the last two feasily available short of finding reseller for initial print from 2015-ish?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 14:14
|
|
|
GiantRockFromSpace posted:One more question about Samurai Remnant if I might. I just got Rogue Berserker as a support Servant and already used enough skill gems to get the 60 points needed to max him out at level 100. But given his lack of availability AFAIK, should I blow a few more gems on him to get him the 100~ SP to get 11 skills (and thus let me unlock the Earth skill on Iori's grid) so I can master the tree whenever I want? Or just wait till NG+ and save gems for Rogue Saber (albeit he apparently is more available on NG+ as long as you do his Disgression) Okay, never mind, didn't know you could do all his Disgressions the first time so it unlocked 2 extra nodes, with one more Servant level he can get 11 skills and then I won't have to worry till NG+. All I'm waiting for is for the last statue to be available, do I have to wait for the Void stance before it can randomly appear when carving?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 01:48
|
|
|
Endorph posted:heavens feel ftw, sakura ftw i honestly think sakura's story in heaven's feel is what makes FSN work as a whole. Because the Fate and UBW routes are about how Shirou is traumatized and has ptsd and thinks that to be a good person, he has to sacrifice himself over and over because it didn't make sense that he lived when other people died. In Heaven's Feel, we finally see how, just by living his daily life with kindness and integrity--cooking meals, giving his time freely to help others, always aspiring to be better--is heroic in and of itself. His ability to survive the traumas of his past and continue to grow let him make room for Sakura in his life, and he's such a lifeline for her. Then there's the radical reimagining of mythological order in Heaven's Feel, where the role of "hero" and "monster" become reversed, and Medusa (whose story can easily be interpreted as a woman being punished for being raped) becomes a savior figure. heavens feel ftw, sakura ftw
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2024 05:46
|
|
|
Did they ever actually definitively establish if Medusa has the whole Poseidon rape backstory that Ovid gave her? Or is it more Hesiod's "oh yeah she's some demigod that was always a bit hosed up" from the Theogony?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2024 05:50
|
|
|
In Fate lore the Gorgon sisters were always minor goddesses, and Athena cursed Medusa to be hated by humans out of jealously for unspecified reasons (probably she was too beautiful and well-liked). Medusa subsequently becoming a monster was her own doing; a result of getting a little too into killing men that came to slay her and "rescue" her sisters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2024 06:07
|
|
|
It's more the latter, they get into her, Stheno, and Euryale more in Hollow. I do think she disses Poseidon at some point but the rest of that version of things isn't really implied to my memory. E: ^ yeah that, although her change is I think part of the curse or just part of the same natural difference between her and the other two as her aging, not a result of the killing Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2024 06:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 23:06 |
|
|
Asterite34 posted:Did they ever actually definitively establish if Medusa has the whole Poseidon rape backstory that Ovid gave her? Or is it more Hesiod's "oh yeah she's some demigod that was always a bit hosed up" from the Theogony? In hollow ataraxia she likes Poseidon and calls him her boyfriend, which... presumably would not happen with the rape backstory. On the other hand, Saber Medusa apparently hates him and spends time with Caenis talking poo poo about him, presumably due to shared rape by poseidon backstory. But that could just be a gag 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2024 06:10
|
|
