Will we need a basic income in the future?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Will we need a basic income in the future?

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I'd like to see your numbers on this. Last time I saw numbers it wasn't all that far out there, though we would need to impose fairly high tax rates on the top percentages of income.

Plus, remember that there would, at least ideally, be significant administrative savings as the various costs in determining eligibility went away.

Just doing OOM, the GDP of the USA is in the e13 range, while the GMI is in the e12 range, so it's at most ten percent. Of course, with those numbers a family of four is making ten grand more than median household income, so this potentially drops significantly if we take kids into account etc.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 05:40

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 07:28

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Arglebargle III posted:

$15,000 x 340 million people = $5.1 trillion. 2014 US GDP is 17.3 trillion (check wikipedia). FY 2013 Federal tax receipts were 2.8 trillion. 5.1+2.8=7.9 7.9/17.3=0.4566

I was off by 4% in my mental math but whatever, that's 45% of US GDP for only a basic income near the poverty line and federal tax receipts (in a time of deficit too) not counting any other tax burden.

I guess if you assume that basic income will wipe out Social Security and non-health financial assistance outlays the numbers get better by about a trillion dollars, but you have to assume that all those things are not financed by deficit spending currently in order to remove them from the tax receipts column.

US GDP in 2013 was 81 trillion, so this is 6% of GDP going to it.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 05:44

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Arglebargle III posted:

Yes, 9 trillion is so insignificant when compared to 10 trillion. Your argument has persuaded me!

Haha, you ignored the part where your "low income" becomes decidedly middle-class with a nuclear family in favor of whining about approximations.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 05:45

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

The military is 4% of GDP, an exceptionally generous plan like the one being thrown around here is 6%, a more modest plan gives us 5%, a harsh plan that actually skims the poverty line gives us 3%. It's quite doable, since SS benefits equal 5% of GDP already.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 05:59

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

My Imaginary GF posted:

What is the cost of a plan which would disqualify individuals from entitlement programs?

I'd like to be able to show "GMI is an entitlement-reducing and cost-saving proposal".

Any plan except the harsh one obsoletes Social Security entirely, as it pays adults about 1500/year more than median SS benefits. In addition, it completely obsoletes TANF and probably food stamps as well. However, it does nothing for healthcare and it's debatable whether it can really cover housing all that well, as even the low end of apartments outside of city centers are too expensive for a single renter under the GMI.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 06:09

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 07:28

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

StabbinHobo posted:

not even close

https://www.google.com/search?q=u.s.+gdp

Oh, I was looking at the total wealth instead.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 06:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Will we need a basic income in the future?