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Benevolent for the greater society. There are no insinuations that their authority is illegitimate. It's a sacrifice that many people would gladly make.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:55
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Phobophilia posted:Benevolent for the greater society. There are no insinuations that their authority is illegitimate. It's a sacrifice that many people would gladly make. Authority can be both legitimate and evil at the same time. The show can still go either way, the destroyed bridges to what appears to be mainland Japan should be concerning. The main thing that keeps me from agreeing is that the injuries are not being portrayed as a glorious sacrifice that they're happy to make nor do they seem like they are whole heartedly glad to be "sacrifices" or "offerings". So far its been subtle and nuanced enough that I don't think we need to jump the gun just yet.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:44
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Yeah, as of this moment it could still go either way.
Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:48
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Rexides posted:So, I guess then that Togo is a veteran of the previous war, which is how she got crippled, right? Yeah this seems clear now. Each time a girl uses mankai she loses some element of bodily function and gains a new fairy thing. She had three to start, meaning she had gone mankai twice before. Likely one use left her unable to walk while the other gave her the memory loss. The reveal of this show as some sort of commentary on WWII is pretty surprising and I'm really hoping it is ultimately an anti-war message rather than a history blind nationalistic one. Right now it looks mostly like the latter unfortunately, with the wounded warriors and PTSD angles being played up to sell the heroic defenders worthy of worship message. While completely ignoring Japan's own role as an aggressor.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:14
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I'm not buying this as a sort of revisionist commentary on WWII, I think that's very tenuous; additionally I think its kinda bullshit to force the authors of any fictional work dealing with those tropes the responsibility of having to spell out why they were on the wrong side of history because of their nationality. If I wrote a story of Canadian themed space explorers charting unknown space and trading with sentient alien space elves, I think it would be an unfair criticism that I didn't take the time to spell out "Yo man, hanging Louis Riel (my ancestor by the way) was kinda a lovely thing to do." Shinto themed magical girls defending themselves and their society from the Other doesn't automatically make it a WWII revisionist work; I can agree its a possible interpretation that the work is sorta trending towards but it isn't there yet.
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Dec 3, 2014 06:39
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There exists alot of magical girl shows out there, and most of them don't use this kind of nationalistic and WW2 imagery. This one does. It's like if the Stargate was used to colonise other worlds, and they started using colonialist or native american imagery in the meantime, and they wholeheartedly took the side of the colonists. Then people would jump the gently caress on them as well. But Stargate was mostly exploratory and diplomatic, so no one comes out of it going Colonialism Is Okay. You can judge American sci fi through the same lens as well. Some don't use these themes at all. Some happily take the side of the oppressor. Some hand wring. These, like YYY, are also worthy of consideration.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:14
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Phobophilia posted:There exists alot of magical girl shows out there, and most of them don't use this kind of nationalistic and WW2 imagery. This one does. The thing is if its being used as a criticism rather than a consideration then I just feel a higher standard is needed, not just "Well there are themes that kinda match." Lots of things kinda match; if the show was actively trying to advance a revisionist agenda regarding Japan's role in WWII I feel it would be more noticeable and far less nuanced then the show so far has been advancing. I can buy that there's some themes certainly present but whether its advancing a revisionist/ultranationalist world view is what I'm skeptical of.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:53
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Yup, thread title couldn't be more wrong. What a horrible life.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:54
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Yuki Yuna is a Hero: Heroes Can Never Die
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Dec 4, 2014 22:37
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Jesus what a devastating episode. I gotta say the slow build up to all the bad stuff happening is working for me. And then the scene after the credits 
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Dec 4, 2014 23:03
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Meanwhile during the second half of the show Togo was busy trying to figure out new and innovative ways to kill herself.
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Dec 5, 2014 01:26
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Well that got went some dark places there.
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Dec 5, 2014 02:39
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Man the writing in this show is quite good. I could understand where all the characters were coming from in this episode; earlier I speculated that their eventual fight against the Taisha was going to be backed by some flimsy reasoning, so colour me surprised. I'm especially glad that Yuna took the stance of even if the Taisha told us everything straight up, we still would have fought, which is a really important point to make. Edit: "I've tried to commit suicide 10 times today" 
KasaiAisu fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 04:01
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To look back at the WWII themes if there was a direction to really look down along I think it would be kamikaze pilots who was also deceived into sacrificing life and limb for a cause that from a certain perspective is worth fighting for. I'm glad to see more that The Taisha are pretty skeazy and might very well be antagonists themselves, depending on which direction this show goes. We still don't know enough!
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Dec 5, 2014 08:05
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You know, this is finally the suffering payoff that everything had been building towards, and that everyone had been hoping for. It's alot better than what I'd expected from Seiji Kishi (who everyone loves to make fun of). It's quite straightforward, I don't think they will be dropping a reveal that the Taisha's cause isn't worth fighting and sacrificing for. Yes, sealing the Vertexes cause damage to the real world, but there is zero evidence that the Vertexes are benign. Ultimately, it's a "sacrifice of the few for the good of the many" that ticks the right emotional boxes. Of course, we really can't get out of the subtext that this show came out during a particularly... nationalistic period in Japan, but it's not really needed to enjoy the story. It's the same kind of context that many western shows constantly deal with (like 24 or The Dark Knight Returns or Zero Dark Thirty or Red Dawn etc). Finally, I don't think Togo is actually suicidal, but was simply testing the Taisha's enforcement mechanisms.
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Dec 5, 2014 09:55
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I like how Togo though is one of those 100% determined characters in that she would have absolutely have been okay with it had she been able to succeed.
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Dec 5, 2014 13:22
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What a sad episode. It was great. And the preview to the next episode is pretty dark. I'm really unsure what will happen next. This show keeps you guessing. In a good, non-obnoxious way.
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Dec 5, 2014 14:46
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Well, of course that nerd would try seppuku first.  Phobophilia posted:Finally, I don't think Togo is actually suicidal, but was simply testing the Taisha's enforcement mechanisms. Yes. After the third attempt.
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Dec 6, 2014 11:39
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nielsm posted:Yup, thread title couldn't be more wrong. What a horrible life. But is it really living if they can't choose to end their lives on their own terms? In that sense, aren't they already dead? I mean.. what is living? 
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Dec 6, 2014 12:16
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Dec 6, 2014 12:24
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Dec 6, 2014 15:57
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And it only took them more than half the series to actually go somewhere with payoff. Though now the question is if there's anything to follow it up. Here's for hoping that this doesn't turn into a plain "Sacrificing is good for everybody else" solution, I wouldn't really like that much. Especially with the rather patriarchical bent to the thematic side of that. Considering that the staff apparently wanted to make a magical girl show "with a twist", it seems quite possible that the negative consequences are the twist and that's it. I guess the best solution for them is to now try and die in combat, if they even can with Mankai around. I can't say I really buy into the notion of this being specifically evocative of the war rhetoric, though I can somewhat understand where that's coming from. For me there's just too little information on anything going on outside of the little world presented. It even uses imagery to specifically indicate the isolation such as destroyed bridges, the "line" in the rainbow tree world, and so on. It's also not been explained at all what Vertexes are and if they really would be harmful, what that tree actually is and more. The only source of information on anything is actively deceitful and thus all information is suspect. Hm, funny, Mai-HiME also took about half the series to go somewhere, but it did a lot better past the halfway point. Maybe it'll turn around.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:12
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Things like this almost never amount to anything but hey wouldn't it be fun Top is Yuna, bottom is Taisha.
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Dec 9, 2014 03:42
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I am surprisingly okay with the obvious plot twist. Even if it does dive into Gen Urobochi levels of suffering. I probably won't be bothered too much if it literally goes in that direction as long as it is portrayed reasonably. Either that or I just assume Magical Girl magic is bullshit and let it be hand waved.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:43
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As soon as they did the "reveal" with the girl in the bed, shocked expressions and all, I realized what it was going to be, but I didn't expect what came after that. Also holy poo poo 21 fairies
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Dec 11, 2014 21:09
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Okay, drat. World is more hosed than I had imagined.
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Dec 11, 2014 21:11
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The best part is that it'd been hinted in the opening all along and nobody guessed right.  This scene was really well framed.
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Dec 11, 2014 21:54
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Episode was good. But I'm also disappointed that this show is going the usual route of Japan dealing with it's past. Edit: But on the other hand, maybe it's this: quote:The outer Gods are actually trying to save humanity from Shinju-sama. What Tougou saw beyond the barrier was just another of its many lies and illusions. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 23:33
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Episode was good. But I'm also disappointed that this show is going the usual route of Japan dealing with it's past. ...huh?
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Dec 11, 2014 23:47
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With all the nationalism, state shintoism and so on in this show, it is likely that the author was intending to say something about imperial Japan and WWII. And then going the route of war is hosed without saying much about Japan's responsibility is weak. But not unexpected as others have already posted in this threat.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:00
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Not everything is always about WWII.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:26
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Snow Halation posted:Not everything is always about WWII. I'm from Germany.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:27
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:With all the nationalism, state shintoism and so on in this show, it is likely that the author was intending to say something about imperial Japan and WWII. And then going the route of war is hosed without saying much about Japan's responsibility is weak. But not unexpected as others have already posted in this threat. ...you do realize that it's all about "the whole world is hosed", and it had nothing to do with either Japan imperialism or WWII? The 'Nationalism' was just the reason Togou got such a reaction here, as she was the only one who cared about that and she feels betrayed.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:05
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:With all the nationalism, state shintoism and so on in this show, it is likely that the author was intending to say something about imperial Japan and WWII. And then going the route of war is hosed without saying much about Japan's responsibility is weak. But not unexpected as others have already posted in this threat. Yeah no, there is extremely little substance to this being any kind of narrative link or allusion to Japan's role in the Pacific War; what little substance there is could maybe be comparable to the conscripted Kamikaze pilots. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar; "we" only really got this impression we're foreigners so everyday aspects of Japanese culture probably raise the same sort of concerns seen here Germans feels feel here. We have here a bonafide cosmic horror story where human existence is pointless and inevitably doomed for all its worth lets not ruin it.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:50
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Raenir Salazar posted:We have here a bonafide cosmic horror story where human existence is pointless and inevitably doomed for all its worth lets not ruin it. Thank you. The amount of "this show is a commentary on war" in this thread is pretty ridiculous.
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Dec 12, 2014 11:06
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Well it was pretty overt, beyond that of the usual "defence of the homeland" scenarios. Of course, they threw a spanner in the works when the most patriotic of all the magical girls decided to burn the place down and spare the suffering of the people. Unless that's a metaphor for Japanese nationalists wanting to destroy the civilian population for their perceived betrayal.
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Dec 12, 2014 12:12
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Well, that certainly was on the unexpected side. Not really getting the vibe that Togo can succeed, and the threat itself doesn't look like it can be stopped either unless things go far beyond the previous scale. So Yuuna will probably have to convince her, maybe after some people get offed. It's kind of funny how this would have probably gone differently had they not kept a lot of secrets from them, deliberately lied and kidnapped them as children too... So basically, I'm still on the fence and it depends on how they'll go from here and what they actually do with the reveal. Curious how long the series has stretched that feeling.
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Dec 14, 2014 20:45
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I just binged watch this. Holy poo poo episode 10 ending.
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Dec 15, 2014 01:30
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Bittersweet ending incoming.
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Dec 15, 2014 01:34
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Quite an episode there.... very action packed and we get to see the results of mankai being used in quick secession. Did the little armor "extensions" on Karin's arm and leg mean that they are both useless now? She didn't really move while being comforted by Yuna.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:07
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