It's about ethics in forums moderation.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > It's about ethics in forums moderation.

Yuriy: Dec 25, 2006; Pay no attention to me, for I am a stupid cunt.

COBRARocky posted:

When are you gonna drop a new dox.

It's kinda hard when the guy who used to do them went on his bindi wedding/kayaking trip and never came back. You'll probably see a few forum-dump type doxxes where a user's post history or post history on another site gets brought up, but it takes a special brand of deviant like Fire, Zeitgeus or Aatrek to warrant a "good" doxx.

Faux-rear end Nonsense posted:

Yeah, this strikes me as odd too. Do you guys see them as a symptom/symbol of social decay or something? Because all in all, they're a pretty obscure & harmless minority to have such strong feelings about.

e: I realize that you can't speak for everyone, but p much everything I've read on your site (badly addicted to forums drama, of all things ) seems to indicate that the general consensus over there is trans=bad. Do you have any insight into why that is?

I live in a fairly conservative part of America, so I don't encounter these people in my day to day life. However, the second you go anywhere on the internet, you'll see internet-armies of them and their Tumblr/SJW supporters getting really mad about pronouns and living in a delusional fantasy world where they're "normal" and not "mentally ill". To me, it's akin to supporting a schizophrenic to listen to the voices in their heads. This site used to have Links of the Day dedicated to making fun of poorly passing delusional trannies, now there's a safe haven for them where they encourage other probably mentally ill folk that they're trans and the only way to deal with their problems is to pump themselves full of blackmarket horse piss and mutilate their genitals. I'm sure there are trannies who don't make their gender identity the focal points of their lives, maybe there are some legit dudes who transition, become a lady and are never heard from again. Unfortunately they don't appear on the internet.

What you do get on the internet is made up bullshit like gender fluidity, the cheapening of what it means to be a woman by concepts of "girl days" and "boy days". SS might be a lot of nerds cosplaying as the guy from Gran Torino at times but troons are grown rear end men cosplaying at being a woman and then claiming to speak for them.

EasternBronze posted:

Would you say the forums have improved since last year or not, and why?

I would say nothing has changed. Any mods that were outed were replaced, Francostein, Ralp and XyloJW are just as bad as Abe. People still routinely get banned for any kind of dissent in St. Trayvon and Michael Brown threads. SJW bullshit still gets injected into everything (I'm a wrestling poster, it's especially bad in the remnants of WH2K/non-MMA PSP)

Edit: Another thing that doesn't happen there is that people don't act really smug about other internet communities. The amount of arrogance that some goons have over paying 10$ for a forum is baffling and they start making GBS threads over far larger, far more successful communities while tucked away in their little hugbox. How many "lol reddit" posts do you see per day? How many posts do you see that reduce reddit to a singular community rather than just a space for sub-communities to form that you can pick and choose to read based on your own interests?

Yuriy fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 16:47

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# ? May 5, 2024 16:23

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

GAPO posted:

Like I said in the OP, most goons should not post or lurk there. Sounds like you're no exception.

I mean, if you want me to justify for you why you should read a site that doesn't appeal to you, I cant.

You risked your account to explain the off-site to me. That's a choice you made.

Why is your brand of humor unpopular here? Is it because people are too politically correct? What has changed in the last decade and a half of SA's existence to make that style of humor unpopular?

Yuriy posted:

People still routinely get banned for any kind of dissent in St. Trayvon and Michael Brown threads.

What kind of dissent? Do you have any concrete examples of what you think should not be bannable from those threads?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 16:52

liquorlanche: Sep 10, 2014

liquorlanche posted:

They made a thread in a forum designed to mock the other forum about the thread in the forum they mock. You decide...

http://somethingsensitive.com/index.php?topic=6490.msg0#new

I made that thread to cull answers to goons' questions from, rather than speak for the community myself. I said that's what I was doing. Not a big revelation.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:02

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

liquorlanche posted:

They made a thread in a forum designed to mock the other forum about the thread in the forum they mock. You decide...

http://somethingsensitive.com/index.php?topic=6490.msg0#new

Well the guy said he was soliciting answers from other people who post there. But this does raise another question, how can you accuse other people of caring about the internet too much given that you represent a site dedicated to posing as the cool kids club of a different site which rejected your comedic preferences? I don't think the general userbase of SA knows or cares that SS exists.

I'm trying to figure out a more charitable explanation of the SS userbase, because I currently see it as full of unpleasant people with weird and unhealthy internet grudges posting repetitive and unfunny provocations. Are there any common topics of discussion on SS that don't revolve around SA drama or complaining about other internet people?

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:02

GAPO: Apr 24, 2014; by Ralp

quote:

Why is your brand of humor unpopular here? Is it because people are too politically correct? What has changed in the last decade and a half of SA's existence to make that style of humor unpopular?

I think that our brand of humor is more popular here than it is allowed to be. I think the reaction to the rules of GBS being relaxed is evidence of that. If the mods and admins stopped probating/banning for "misogyny" and "racism", the forums would change instantly. I think that the majority of posters are either indifferent or opposed to the SJW minority, but don't want to lose their account. I can understand why, from a business standpoint, that won't happen, but there is a happy medium to be found. I could also point to SA's ever dwindling userbase as evidence that that type of humor is what drew people here, and it's absence is what is not popular.

GAPO fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:10

GAPO: Apr 24, 2014; by Ralp

Yuriy posted:

Francostein, Ralp and XyloJW are just as bad as Abe.

not to get you banned or anything, but what has XyloJW done?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:15

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

GAPO posted:

I think that our brand of humor is more popular here than it is allowed to be. I think the reaction to the rules of GBS being relaxed is evidence of that. If the mods and admins stopped probating/banning for "misogyny" and "racism", the forums would change instantly. I think that the majority of posters are either indifferent or opposed to the SJW minority, but don't want to lose their account. I can understand why, from a business standpoint, that won't happen, but there is a happy medium to be found. I could also point to SA's ever dwindling userbase as evidence that that type of humor is what drew people here, and it's absence is what is not popular.

Its my opinion that the kinds of people who grew up posting on traditional forums are well into adulthood now, and the more youthful aspects of that demographic who would have in the past found SA now tend to post on Reddit and other aggregators. What do you think about this explanation?

Really of all the sites I've frequented in the past, SA is the only one still standing. It may have a declining userbase, but in terms of internet it seems to have some longevity. Why?

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:16

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

gas

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:21

RonMexicosPitbull: Feb 28, 2012; by Ralp

GAPO posted:

Interestingly Reddit and these "other aggregators" which are so popular among the "younger demographic" also tend to have pretty laid back moderation. I wonder of there's a connection?

Taking a long time to die isn't the same thing as longevity.

Personally, I'd love to see the SA revitalized. But arguing that its plummeting traffic is not indicative of a problem is ignoring the obvious.

I just don't think your characterization is accurate. It sounds like the opinion of someone with a grudge against moderators, not a clear perception of how the internet has changed over a decade. Fark has little moderation and it's completely dropped off the radar.

I'm still trying to see what SS has to offer except being the safe space for people who want to complain about SA in an environment where other people also have any opinion at all about SA, which just seems like a specially odd way to waste one's time talking to other internet people.

Truthfully it just seems to be a place where people can complain about getting banned from another forum and stoke that anger for years, as well as a place where you can post racial slurs without having your opinions challenged or criticized. What is the compelling draw for new blood to SS? Is it only disgruntled SA posters?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:28

RonMexicosPitbull: Feb 28, 2012; by Ralp

quote:

I'm trying to figure out a more charitable explanation of the SS userbase, because I currently see it as full of unpleasant people with weird and unhealthy internet grudges posting repetitive and unfunny provocations. Are there any common topics of discussion on SS that don't revolve around SA drama or complaining about other internet people?

I registered on SA in 2007 to read Let's Play threads, and registered on SS a week after Aatrek was doxxed. All 437 posts thus far are generally variations on "look at these weird motherfuckers over there, Jesus." I don't have a grudge, because I've got nothing to be angry about. I'm really wondering what's so confusing about an internet community mocking another internet community when you're posting on SA of all things.
[/quote]

[quote author="Embedded YouTube Journo"]

quote:

Well the guy said he was soliciting answers from other people who post there. But this does raise another question, how can you accuse other people of caring about the internet too much given that you represent a site dedicated to posing as the cool kids club of a different site which rejected your comedic preferences? I don't think the general userbase of SA knows or cares that SS exists.

I'm pretty sure that's the preference around here. So...good? I found SS quite by accident a few months ago while reading backstory on mod doxxes and find it infinitely more entertaining than SA has been in the last several years. Then i realized finding posters with regdates before 2010 was getting really hard to do.

quote:

I'm trying to figure out a more charitable explanation of the SS userbase, because I currently see it as full of unpleasant people with weird and unhealthy internet grudges posting repetitive and unfunny provocations. Are there any common topics of discussion on SS that don't revolve around SA drama or complaining about other internet people?

liberals/politics, economics, culture, science, religion, entertainment...a lot of it takes place in chat not necessarily in threads though...
[/quote]

GAPO fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:44

liquorlanche: Sep 10, 2014

GAPO posted:

I don't know why you aren't reading what I'm posting, but let me go ahead and repeat this for you: SS is intended as a supplement to SA. A place where people can discuss SA threads, posters and mods without heavy handed moderation. There are other subforums, but our main focus is to be a relaxed supplement to SA and a funny site to read. Most of.our new users come from SA, maybe one of them can explain the draw.

Why do you need a place to discuss SA that isn't SA? What is the point of a site which is where you complain about another site, only in lowercase with gore pictures and casual racism? SA doesn't have a forum where the point is to complain about Reddit or wherever.

quote:

I registered on SA in 2007 to read Let's Play threads, and registered on SS a week after Aatrek was doxxed. All 437 posts thus far are generally variations on "look at these weird motherfuckers over there, Jesus." I don't have a grudge, because I've got nothing to be angry about. I'm really wondering what's so confusing about an internet community mocking another internet community when you're posting on SA of all things.

I don't post on SA to mock other internet communities, that's a waste of time. I post on SA because the paywall and heavy moderation keeps things generally on target and fresh, which is different from the majority of internet communities out there. Yeah the bulk of posts/threads on SA are terrible, that's the nature of internet communities, but in my experience they're marginally less terrible than nearly any other community and it's easy to filter out the crap. SS seems to be a place where crap is celebrated and gleefully indulged in.

liquorlanche posted:

SA is the safe space for people who want to complain about conservatives and "the patriarchy" where the mods ban anyone who comes in with an argument against such complaints, which just seems like a specially odd way to waste one's time talking to other internet people. There's no conversation. No debate. Someone bitches about "white privelage" or some nonsense and if anyone disagrees, they get probated while the rest of the thread argues with someone who can't even argue back.

I don't think this is true. Most often someone who wants to complain about white privilige marches right into the heart of D&D, does a poor job arguing, gets frustrated, melts down, and gets banned. There are plenty of places on SA where you can complain about anything.

It seems more likely that the people who complain about heavy moderation are just bad at taking social cues.

liquorlanche posted:

Ok, so what I'm starting to take away from this thread is that the bolded is wrong, to some extent. I'm not sure if the opinions of the SS posting majority have been challenged or not, but from what GAPO has posted, if someone were to challenge those opinions, they would not be punished, which is the fundamental difference between here and there. Here, you will get probated if you challenge certain opinions. On SS, you'll just be mocked and argued against, if I understand the rules correctly.

You'd almost certainly get banned or doxxed for consistently annoying the SS userbase. Allegedly, that's what SA is for. So why have a shadow-SA for rejected posters? Why not just have an independent community rather than the SA penalty box?

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:52

Yuriy: Dec 25, 2006; Pay no attention to me, for I am a stupid cunt.

liquorlanche posted:

On SS, you'll just be mocked and argued against, if I understand the rules correctly.

Yea, p much.

Shelf Adventure posted:

Which opinions do you feel you can't say on SA without being probated? This isn't meant to be a honeypot, but I only see people get probated for their opinions when it's "child porn is cool" or something blatantly racist. But sometimes that goes under the radar anyway because it's as a joke or it's in the anime forum.

Your definitions of blatantly racist have come to embody those of Tumblr/SJW movement. There is a multiple page derail in the wrestling twitter thread on why

is racist and unacceptable

quote:

You'd almost certainly get banned or doxxed for consistently annoying the SS userbase. Allegedly, that's what SA is for. So why have a shadow-SA for rejected posters? Why not just have an independent community rather than the SA penalty box?

Nope. And most of us are not banned neo-nazis or whatever bogeyman is being assigned to us nowadays

The best way to think of SoSe's SA posts is as an offsite Helldump meant to laugh and mock the whiny, insane or deluded

Yuriy fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:53

Shelf Adventure: Jul 18, 2006; I'm down with that brother

Yuriy posted:

Yea, p much.

Your definitions of blatantly racist have come to embody those of Tumblr/SJW movement. There is a multiple page derail in the wrestling twitter thread on why

is racist and unacceptable

So there's a multiple page derail - is anyone getting probated for saying "it's not racist."? I've seen derails like that happen in post your favourite before. People saying it's racist, people saying it's not and then a mod coming in and telling them to shut the gently caress up and get back on topic. I'm not sure the problem?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:57

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Yuriy posted:

Nope. And most of us are not banned neo-nazis or whatever bogeyman is being assigned to us nowadays

I dunno if there's any 'assignment' going on, versus a general consensus that SS is just kind of pathetic and angry.

Yuriy posted:

The best way to think of SoSe's SA posts is as an offsite Helldump meant to laugh and mock the whiny, insane or deluded

Isn't this just a less popular, lower standard form of group think? If SA is a hugbox, why isn't SS? Because you can say cuss words there?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:58

liquorlanche: Sep 10, 2014

Shelf Adventure posted:

Which opinions do you feel you can't say on SA without being probated? This isn't meant to be a honeypot, but I only see people get probated for their opinions when it's "child porn is cool" or something blatantly racist. But sometimes that goes under the radar anyway because it's as a joke or it's in the anime forum.

I got probated for making jokes about the kid who got "killed" by Tony Stewart, when others were posting "much tragedy" "such a shame." Had that happened 10 years ago, the same thread would have been ripe with gifs of the kid getting run down with "lol owned" style captions.

I got probated for making fun of someone who was literally so stupid, he ran out on a dirt race car track in effort to stop cars which A) could barely see him and B) were traveling at high speeds on a track made of dirt. I said something to the tune of "I'd rather not live in a world where people THAT stupid are considered worthy of life." Which was considered wrongthink because he was just a boy who made one bad decision, yet the rest of us manage to avoid being killed in efforts to flag down cars traveling on the freeway.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 17:59

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

liquorlanche posted:

I got probated for making jokes about the kid who got "killed" by Tony Stewart, when others were posting "much tragedy" "such a shame." Had that happened 10 years ago, the same thread would have been ripe with gifs of the kid getting run down with "lol owned" style captions.

I got probated for making fun of someone who was literally so stupid, he ran out on a dirt race car track in effort to stop cars which A) could barely see him and B) were traveling at high speeds on a track made of dirt. I said something to the tune of "I'd rather not live in a world where people THAT stupid are considered worthy of life." Which was considered wrongthink because he was just a boy who made one bad decision, yet the rest of us manage to avoid being killed in efforts to flag down cars traveling on the freeway.

A probation isn't a big deal. So you got mad for... someone disagreeing with you?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 18:00

liquorlanche: Sep 10, 2014

treeboy posted:

You're pretty much acting the poster boy for how forum culture has shifted over the last 10 years. Probations shut down discussion and debate since one side can no longer reply. As such they are a form of "punishment" even where none is due.

Unless you feel dissent should be punished, in which case we're back to the central problem: poo poo isn't funny anymore because people always have to agree or face consequences.

This is exactly why I'm posting ITT. I miss being able to make fun of the racist republicans. I miss the hysterical dogpiles and honeypots which stemmed from arguing with the type of people who post on SS. We were never threatened. When has a conservative or racist rear end in a top hat ever came out on top, around here? We were never the victim, but somewhere down the line, the mods started acting as though we were and started banning wrongthink. Now all the right-wing assholes who used to be the evil, other side of the debate/argument/slapfight are gone and there's no more challenge, debate or fun.

Watching someone backpedal and fold like a house of cards was infinitely more fun than seeing "User was put on probation, for this post."

# ? Nov 4, 2014 18:12

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

treeboy posted:

You're pretty much acting the poster boy for how forum culture has shifted over the last 10 years. Probations shut down discussion and debate since one side can no longer reply. As such they are a form of "punishment" even where none is due.

Unless you feel dissent should be punished, in which case we're back to the central problem: poo poo isn't funny anymore because people always have to agree or face consequences.

But it doesn't remove someone's ability to dissent at all, it just temporarily prevents someone from doing so. Not being able to post for 6 or 12 hours isn't something to take personally, in my opinion.

GAPO posted:

Ever heard of r/shitredditsays? Not a forum, but you get the idea. We are not so different. No offense, but you seem a bit myopic. Like anything that falls outside of your experience doesn't exist or something.

Yes, but that's on Reddit. Are you saying SA should provide a place where people can just post nastily about other people on the internet they dislike?

I don't see what's myopic about my posts. I've clearly said it seems that SS is just a place for angry people nursing internet grudges to go and post low-effort trash and feel like rebels. I guess I just don't have the experience necessary to take internet words as a personal insult.

liquorlanche posted:

This is exactly why I'm posting ITT. I miss being able to make fun of the racist republicans. I miss the hysterical dogpiles and honeypots which stemmed from arguing with the type of people who post on SS. We were never threatened. When has a conservative or racist rear end in a top hat ever came out on top, around here? We were never the victim, but somewhere down the line, the mods started acting as though we were and started banning wrongthink. Now all the right-wing assholes who used to be the evil, other side of the debate/argument/slapfight are gone and there's no more challenge, debate or fun.

You can still do all of those things. Maybe when you get punished the fault lies with you, and not everyone else?

GAPO posted:

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on the merits of SS vs. SA. Or an SA bashing session. Just an ask/tell thread. I'm really trying not to get this gassed.

If moderation is so tyrannical, why hasn't it been gassed already?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 18:13

liquorlanche: Sep 10, 2014

liquorlanche posted:

Yes it does remove someone's ability to dissent! It absolutely does! What you're saying is "You can still make your argument. You just need to wait 6 or 12 hours till the thread has moved onto another topic and/or pay $10 more dollars!"

So wait 6-12 hours or pay $10. Your compulsion to post immediately about anything you want doesn't have to be honored on a private website. It just seems like a lot of entitlement.

nickutz posted:

serious answer: because by the time their 12 hour probation is over the thread probably moved on to something else, and if the probated dissenter brings it up again a few pages later they'll get banned.

Kind of mealy mouthed. I would 'dissent', but I'll get banned or probated again! Maybe your 'dissent' was poorly considered or poorly argued in the first place? Not all probations are warranted but neither are they all an unfair clamping down of free and reasonable speech.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 18:18

treeboy: Nov 13, 2004; James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

treeboy posted:

Not being able to post is in fact removing someones ability to dissent, and when multiple dissents result in multiple probations, ending, finally, in a ban. Well, that's not much of a "discussion" is it?

When my dog is outside barking in my yard for no reason, I don't let him bark. I put him inside, for the comfort of my neighbors. This is not an unfair violation of the dog's rights.

RonMexicosPitbull posted:

You cant really do this whole "you mad?" thing if you were the one angry enough at words on the internet to make them go away in the first place.

So... you're NOT talking about SS right now, correct?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 18:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > It's about ethics in forums moderation.

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