|
Just finally caught up. This is a fantastic podcast. I think I'm where most of you are, in that, I think Jay has to be involved (he knew where the car was, so, at the very least, he knew who did it and was close enough to them to be told by them where it was). Chris' story squares far too well with the actual events to be a coincidence, so Adnan probably did do it, and besides, the Nisha call can only be explained away otherwise if it turns out Jay knew her beforehand or there was a third party involved who also knew Nisha. The alternative is that everything Adnan said is true. And Jay told that story to Chris to protect someone else. If there was a third person who was the killer, and Jay knew them, based on that episode, it sounds like he'd do whatever was asked of him (i.e. frame Adnan) if they were threatening to hurt Stephanie. That would explain the inconsistencies in his story too; none of it was true and he was misremembering the lie each time, but not because he killed her. But yeah, I'm just spitballing crazily. Geekslinger posted:Don't forget that Reddit had already picked a Boston Bombing suspect before the FBI based on the fact that he was carrying a backpack in a couple of pictures from the finish line. The NY Post even printed the poor guys face all over the front page as fact and just about ruined his life. Reddit really is a cess pool. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Nov 19, 2014 |
#
?
Nov 19, 2014 12:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 04:51 |
|
|
I hope more time is devoted to Hae's boyfriend. Based on Hae & Adnan's on again off again sort of relationship, perhaps he got jealous. Or Adnan was jealous that Hae really had moved on. I feel as though it was a crime of passion, not premeditated, regardless of who did it. Who would plan to strangle a fit young woman in public in the middle of the afternoon? Whatever the truth is, I am really just enjoying how the story is unfolding. Adnan's attorney was so grating when questioning Jay. I wonder how the trial would have gone with a different attorney representing Adnan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 04:34
|
|
|
Earlier this evening, Serial posted a blog entry entitled Weather Report. It casts some doubt on the Asia alibi. I've also successfully turned my roommate, close friend, and her boyfriend onto the show. Finally people I can  with.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 04:48
|
|
|
Watermelon City posted:I hope more time is devoted to Hae's boyfriend. Based on Hae & Adnan's on again off again sort of relationship, perhaps he got jealous. They didn't go too deep into Don's alibi, but I figured that was because it was ironclad. I assume multiple people, including coworkers, customers, and his boss, corroborated that he was at Lenscrafters all day.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 04:59
|
|
|
What if Don has a twin brother?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 06:34
|
|
|
Any possible suspect who is not Jay, Adnan, or some close relation has to explain why they told Jay where the car was. The fact that a young man who'd been in trouble with the law decided to tell the police after a few hours of questioning all about the crime - Adnan did it, Jay assisted before or after the fact. - Jay did it, masterfully framed Adnan and had a cunning plan to give the police an inconsistent story/couldn't figure out how to lie properly. - Someone at least one of them knew did it. Either Adnan decided to take the fall for this person and convinced Jay to frame him, or Jay decided to frame Adnan for what someone else did, and again failed to rehearse his story. Feel silly for having missed that (got him confused with the phone tip), but the 'coming clean' and knowledge of the car are still crucial facts. vvvvv Kangra fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Nov 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 08:40
|
|
|
Kangra posted:The fact that a young man who'd been in trouble with the law decided to go to the police on his own, but only after they found the body, is pretty much the key detail of the case. It narrows the suspect list severely. There are only three plausible scenarios I listened to part of season 4 again and at around 11:48 this is brought up. According to the narration, the police go to the video store where Jay works and get him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 13:53
|
|
|
3 big additions in the first five minutes of today's episode, and none of them are that weather report.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 15:09
|
|
|
Euthyphro posted:3 big additions in the first five minutes of today's episode, and none of them are that weather report. It was kind of baffling to me that more time wasn't spent on the things revealed early on in the episode. I'll toss this into spoiler blocks, I guess, but it's literally within the first five minutes: We find out there was no pay phone in the Best Buy parking lot, we find out Hae couldn't have died when the established timeline claims she died ... those are massive details, critical to the prosecution's case and, less importantly in the grand scheme of things but way more importantly to us as listeners, a direct contradiction of aspects of the case we've essentially been conditioned from the very beginning to accept as concrete. I really liked this episode, but I'm puzzled about SK's line of thought.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 15:45
|
|
|
Toaster Beef posted:It was kind of baffling to me that more time wasn't spent on the things revealed early on in the episode. I'll toss this into spoiler blocks, I guess, but it's literally within the first five minutes: She said they were added at the last minute so there probably wasn't time to change the focus or structure of the episode, which is why the big updates were at the front. I'm not sure what the production schedule/lead time has been so far but I'd be surprised if they don't come back to it in future episodes. I hope more people start coming forward with additional info or corrections after listening to the podcast.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 15:57
|
|
|
The Bunk posted:She said they were added at the last minute so there probably wasn't time to change the focus or structure of the episode, which is why the big updates were at the front. I'm not sure what the production schedule/lead time has been so far but I'd be surprised if they don't come back to it in future episodes. I hope more people start coming forward with additional info or corrections after listening to the podcast. Stunned silence. 3 bombshells in the first five minutes, and then a regular episode.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
Toaster Beef posted:We find out there was no pay phone in the Best Buy parking lot, we find out Hae couldn't have died when the established timeline claims she died We don't find that out at all? We learn that one individual - a regular shoplifter, no less - states that there were no phones at Best Buy and that Koenig can't confirm the fact one way or another despite a lot of research. As for the murder timeline, I've been a bit suspicious of it since the episode where Koenig tried to duplicate it, but Adnan still has no alibi for the bulk of that afternoon, so it doesn't absolve him of the crime.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 16:57
|
|
|
Since Koenig had been researching this case for a year before the first episode and since she successfully pitched it to be produced as a series (presumably with a budget) I have a hard time swallowing her whole "I don't know where this is going and we will find out together" angle. Clearly she has segmented some information, holding it back for a future episode. These new "bombshells" come as I'm seeing a lot of people say that yes it's a good series but it seems things are pretty laid out at this point - what new angles are there? I think she knows exactly where she's going with this even if the final conclusion in the last episode is just "we can never know for sure."
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 16:57
|
|
|
Shitshow posted:a regular shoplifter, no less You should be a prosecutor!
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
head58 posted:Since Koenig had been researching this case for a year before the first episode and since she successfully pitched it to be produced as a series (presumably with a budget) I have a hard time swallowing her whole "I don't know where this is going and we will find out together" angle. Clearly she has segmented some information, holding it back for a future episode. These new "bombshells" come as I'm seeing a lot of people say that yes it's a good series but it seems things are pretty laid out at this point - what new angles are there? I think she knows exactly where she's going with this even if the final conclusion in the last episode is just "we can never know for sure." Yeah of course shes holding stuff back. It helps them tell the story better and it's part of what makes it a good show.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
http://www.clickhole.com/article/su...source=facebookquote:Are you already dreading the end of Serial? Well, Boston native and Serial superfan Justin Mayer will put your mind at ease. He’s agreed to be mysteriously murdered to ensure Serial has a second season as spellbinding as its first. Awesome!
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 17:15
|
|
|
the yeti posted:You should be a prosecutor! You're right, that fact has no bearing on the validity of her statements. I'm just getting frustrated that so little of the story at this point is factual, or the facts that are being presented have little or no bearing on Adnan's guilt or innocence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
Shitshow posted:You're right, that fact has no bearing on the validity of her statements. I'm just getting frustrated that so little of the story at this point is factual, or the facts that are being presented have little or no bearing on Adnan's guilt or innocence. It's how memory works, unfortunately. And this was 16 years ago. Heck, try this: Think back to the first 5 minutes of today's episode. What happened? Make your list, and then go back and re-listen. I'll give you a hint: There was the request to donate, and then the sponsor(s) was/were mentioned. Do you remember what method(s) you could use to donate? Do you remember who the sponsor(s) was/were? You know that MailChimp is a Serial sponsor, so they were probably there. But were they? Do you know for sure that they were mentioned at that point? Was there someone else mentioned? It's hard.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 17:56
|
|
|
Euthyphro posted:Was there someone else mentioned? It's a podcast, so when in doubt, always guess Squarespace. (I'm pretty sure it actually was Squarespace, but that's obviously not your point)
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
Does anyone know how many episodes are left?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
I think Adnan is innocent and is the victim of a miscarriage of justice. It is important to understand that the justice system in the United States is adversarial, not inquisitorial. What this means is that the court is not there to impartially determine the 'facts of the case' and to prosecute those involved; the courts in an adversarial system exist to be host to a certain type of theater or contest. There are three components in adversarial justice: the prosecutor, the defendant, and the judge. It is the job of the prosecutor to prosecute the defendant, not to determine if the defendant is guilty or innocent. The prosecutor takes the case prepared by the prosecutor's investigative team, the police, and presents this in court, presumably to the best of their ability, with the sole goal of returning a guilty verdict. The defendant can represent themselves in court but as the saying goes, 'those who represent themselves have a fool for a client.' Defendants normally engage a champion, a defence attorney, since a good deal of familiarity with the workings of the judicial system are required if you want any defence at all. The judge acts, in theory, to ensure that the exchange between the prosecutor and defendant follow certain rules and protocols. The judge is a referee who tries to prevent illegal play and can be called upon to correct a violation of the rules while the trial is in progress. Entire books have been written on what I've touched upon above but things, more or less, operate as described above. Simply put, the prosecutor prosecutes, the judge adjudicates, and the defendant defends. Guilt or innocence really plays no part. Guilt or innocence matter to the jury, or the judge in a bench case, and the role of the jury is to assign guilt or innocence based upon the quality of the performance they see played out in court. Our justice system is a violent contest between diametrically opposed parties played before a referee and a voting audience, and the voting audience determine who 'wins' and who 'loses.' Ideally, this system is designed to render justice but in pursuit of justice the courts can sometimes return an injustice; mistakes, corruption, laziness, greed, incompetence, ignorance, etc. do happen. In Adnan's case a few of these faults lined up, enough to overwhelm the checks and corrections built into the system, and enough together to send Adnan to prison. The problems for Adnan begin with the discovery of Hae's body, not because of Adnan's true guilt or innocence, but because Hae turning up murdered in a park changes the situation from a missing person to a murder investigation. In any criminal investigation, murder or not, the duty of the police is to deliver to the prosecutor both a suspect and the evidence to convict that suspect, to 'work the case.' Again, the police do not deal with guilt or innocence, the police deal with the suspect and the case against the suspect. Before the anonymous call, before the talk with Jay or Jenn, Adnan, being Hae's ex-boyfriend, is from the start at the top of suspects list. He has a motive right out of the gate and if there is a case at all to make against anyone, the best anyone is Adnan. What of the evidence though? The other two parts of the 'motive, means, opportunity' triad? It is Jenn's second conversation with the police, the meeting of Feb 27th, that completes the case against Adnan. Jenn doesn't give the police eyewitness testimony, her knowledge of the story is second hand, but with her testimony they can have Jay anyway they want. Before moving on to Jay there are a few points to mention concerning Jenn, namely, she, by her own admission, lied to the police. What this means is that the police have Jenn over a barrel and she can either give the police Jay or sit next to Adnan in court; Jenn's story is in miniature Jay's story. The very next day, the 28th, the police pick up Jay and work hard and fast: Jenn puts Jay at the crime scene and gives a version of Jay's story. The first of many problems with how Jay fits into this case begin here and while Adnan is suspect #1, Jay is a decent suspect #2. The police can go back to Jenn and get her to revise her testimony, as they did with Jay, to omit Adnan and put the blame on Jay, the sex pervert who found Hae's body could be brought back in and put Jay at the scene of the crime, Adnan could be squeezed and fill the same role that Jay did for him, and Jay has a record and reputation for crime and violence. 'The Deal With Jay' is quiet clear: help the police make the case against Adnan or become the new Adnan. Without Jay, the police do not have a case. Jay is the eyewitness who can give all the details as to the how and why; the motive, the means, and the opportunity. That Jay is a coerced witness makes me suspicious as to the veracity of his testimony but when we add to that the many times his testimony changed, I can't help but feel that Jay is not a credible witness. Jay couldn't get the story right and had to be coached through, what was it 7 or 8 confessions? Each time his confession grows more suspect and with each interview the investigators contaminate the witness' memory. Jay's confession is now something very different, no longer his story, but the product of a group effort to make the case against Adnan. Now, I am not saying the investigators were corrupt or evil or incompetent, or anything like that, rather they did their job; the investigators made the case, they made the case against Adnan. There is more I can say about the investigative process but I'd like to move on and cover the other factors that worked against Adnan. For the justice system to work, for it to free the innocent and convict the guilty, the defendant must be adequately represented. A poorly represented defendant is a guilty defendant, not because the defendant is actually guilty, but because the defendant's champion, the defense attorney, was inferior to the task of standing up against the prosecutor. The story of Adnan's defense attorney places her among the ranks of the worst of all time: she all but ignored exculpatory evidence, conducted seemingly no additional investigation, and may have intentionally thrown the case with an eye towards making money on retrial or appeal. She was later disbarred and sued for embezzlement and misappropriation of funds. Most importantly though is that she could have and should have cut Jay to pieces on the stand but she did not. Be it incompetence, corruption, laziness, whatever. As to Adnan's group of peers, the twelve people who determine guilt or innocence, there were some problems with them. Three things stand to me from the interviews with the jurors: the idea that 'why would someone say all those things if they hadn't done it' ignores the very existence of false confessions and Jay's relationship with the police; a juror, and possibly the entire jury, not realizing that Jay cut a deal to stay out of prison; and, most significantly to me, the notion that Adnan not taking the stand was somehow a sign of guilt, this was mentioned as being 'huge' (I think was the word) in the jury's deliberations. I really weep over the last one, since it shows an incredible lack of understanding in how the courts operate and in the rights and privileges we have as citizens of the United States. We are protected in the United States Bill of Rights, fifth amendment, from being compelled to be a witness against ourselves. Adnan was fully with his rights to sit at his table and not take the stand and every attorney and legal scholar on the planet would agree with his decision. The jury wanted Adnan to surrender the protections and guarantees given him by fifth amendment, the same amendment that guarantees us due process, and Adnan's refusal to surrender his rights was taken as evidence against him. In summary: Adnan was an easy suspect to build a case against because he was the ex-boyfriend, the primary witness' testimony was extracted under duress and that same testimony was revised heavily by the investigators, the defense council was irredeemably bad, and the jury made up of ignoramuses apparently unaware of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution or as to why things like a jury trial exist at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:Does anyone know how many episodes are left? They originally said they were not sure. Then in an interview Koenig said 12. The way things are going with new information coming in and what not, it would no surprise me if they drew it out a few more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 18:31
|
|
|
Geekslinger posted:They originally said they were not sure. Then in an interview Koenig said 12. The way things are going with new information coming in and what not, it would no surprise me if they drew it out a few more. I've just been fighting the urge to google "spoilers" frantically, and I'm curious how much longer I need to hold out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 18:41
|
|
|
bedpan posted:I think Adnan is innocent and is the victim of a miscarriage of justice. Nice post. Also once you've been through the jury selecting process pretty much the only people that can sit on a long trial are retired or crazy people. Not exactly your peers when you are a 17 year old kid. Edit - also with regards to (is that what w/r/t stands for?) the "bombshell" about the timeline not being correct, that witness could have also wanted to be a part of the success of the podcast and get a little fame from it. You never know! bows1 fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:I've just been fighting the urge to google "spoilers" frantically, and I'm curious how much longer I need to hold out. I have no interest in holding out. Colombia Journalism Review published an update on the Innocence Project case here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:I've just been fighting the urge to google "spoilers" frantically, and I'm curious how much longer I need to hold out. There's some stuff you could learn about Adnan's lawyer, but otherwise there's not really much out there in the general public that would be spoiler-y. This is mostly original research and reporting by SK. Well, there is one thing. http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2l25ko/it_increasingly_seems_like_ritz_and_mcgillivray/ Euthyphro fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 19:09
|
|
|
I hope you Americans are happy that your stupid Thanksgiving holiday is making me wait two weeks for the next episode.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
I still think Adnan is probably a murderer, but drat if this last episode didn't make me feel sorry for him. Good on him for trying to make the best of a totally lovely situation though, and if I were God-Emperor of Maryland I might even consider him a changed man and look into the possibility of parole. EDIT: Also, I think it's totally hilarious that the reason that girl (Laura?) was so confident there wasn't a phone anywhere was because she was literally casing the joint so she should shoplift. ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
bows1 posted:Edit - also with regards to (is that what w/r/t stands for?) the "bombshell" about the timeline not being correct, that witness could have also wanted to be a part of the success of the podcast and get a little fame from it. You never know! Yeah, while SK seems to have crosschecked what they were saying given the popularity of Serial it is definitely possible any of the three revelations could've been from fame seekers. Not even in a malicious way, just misremembering after all these years because the podcast is so ubiquitous.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2014 23:44
|
|
|
Shitshow posted:We don't find that out at all? We learn that one individual - a regular shoplifter, no less - states that there were no phones at Best Buy and that Koenig can't confirm the fact one way or another despite a lot of research.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 00:40
|
|
|
bedpan posted:As to Adnan's group of peers, the twelve people who determine guilt or innocence, there were some problems with them. Three things stand to me from the interviews with the jurors: the idea that 'why would someone say all those things if they hadn't done it' ignores the very existence of false confessions and Jay's relationship with the police; a juror, and possibly the entire jury, not realizing that Jay cut a deal to stay out of prison; and, most significantly to me, the notion that Adnan not taking the stand was somehow a sign of guilt, this was mentioned as being 'huge' (I think was the word) in the jury's deliberations. You're ignoring that Jay also said things to his friends that could not be construed as false confessions. What exactly the jurors considered remarkable about his behavior can't be extrapolated from a single statement by one of them. There's a lot of stuff piling up that this probably was not an ideal fair trial, and maybe even an egregiously unfair one. Yet there's a strong argument that Adnan committed the crime, which raises an interesting philosophical question about whether he 'deserves' to be exonerated legally. I kind of wonder what would have happened if somehow Jay ended up the one convicted and sent to prison for this. It would all look just about as suspicious (save for the motive, which is far weaker for him).
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
This was the first episode to make me think maybe Adnan didn't do it, but I'm going to continue working under the assumption that he did since it's by far the most likely scenario. Jay's story is obviously far from the full and actual truth, and considering it's literally the entire case, it's pretty harsh of him to have made Adnan a premeditated murderer. Every detail suggests a crime of passion, so suggesting premeditation takes any convincing motive away from Adnan, and it demands Adnan be an improbably talented and lucky killer on his first attempt, yet Jay insists that's the case, and the prosecutors can't contradict that part of their only witness' story without risking everything he says being disregarded, so Adnan gets a bare minimum of life imprisonment, possibly the death penalty, for his slightly lesser crime. The one part of the case I can't make any sense of is why Jay ultimately settles on Murder 1, and I really hope that gets answered eventually because the possibilities it implies could change everything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 01:26
|
|
|
Kangra posted:You're ignoring that Jay also said things to his friends that could not be construed as false confessions. What exactly the jurors considered remarkable about his behavior can't be extrapolated from a single statement by one of them. Sure, Jay said things to his friends, and the stories about Hae's death prior to his arrest didn't really match up either, although I'd have to go back and confirm that. Jay had the reputation as a liar or a tale teller if I recall. Also, we get back to the departure from the story told to Jenn, the other guy, and the police the first time to the story that finally went down as the definitive version. I just don't find Jay credible. I don't like the hold the police had on him or his story that features events that drop in and out and rearrange as he is prompted to do so or the witnesses to Adnan's movements that undermine the timeline or Jay's reputation as liar. Is Jay the killer? The killers accomplice? An exhibitionist and gross-out artist that found himself an all to trusting audience? I don't know what to what level Jay is actually involved; it would help if we had complete tapes of the interviews but those were not kept at the time. Kangra posted:There's a lot of stuff piling up that this probably was not an ideal fair trial, and maybe even an egregiously unfair one. Yet there's a strong argument that Adnan committed the crime, which raises an interesting philosophical question about whether he 'deserves' to be exonerated legally. I'm looking for the strong argument against Adnan but I am just not seeing it. What ties Adnan to the crime aside from him being the ex-boyfriend and Jay's testimony? There are also witnesses that at least weaken parts of the state's case. Adnan had witnesses to his movements that make the timeline an impossible or much harder fit and a witness emerged that can cloud Jay's assertions about the calls at Best Buy. Now, that I'm not saying that the case against Adnan is nonexistent, just very weak. Kangra posted:I kind of wonder what would have happened if somehow Jay ended up the one convicted and sent to prison for this. It would all look just about as suspicious (save for the motive, which is far weaker for him). One of the things that struck me from the beginning is that if you remove Adnan from Jay's story you can still easily end up with a murdered Hae. Give Jay anything approaching a motive or say it was a crime of passion and you have the complete confession of the man who killed her. Jay is just about as good a fit for the crime as Adnan and I have no doubt this was brought to his attention during the investigation. I have no doubt that the investigators gave Jay a choice: cooperate and send Adnan away or go away yourself. Fiendly posted:Every detail suggests a crime of passion, so suggesting premeditation takes any convincing motive away from Adnan, and it demands Adnan be an improbably talented and lucky killer on his first attempt, yet Jay insists that's the case, Talented and lucky, but with his talent and luck just falling short of keeping his mouth anything approaching shut or in picking anything approaching a good accomplice. According to the state's case, Adnan the smooth operator told his story entire, means, motive, opportunity, to something less than a close friend. This same friend also was know for a big mouth and getting cuckolded by Adnan. As an aside Jay has a motive separate from self interest in seeing Adnan put in prison: revenge. Adnan was rumored to be screwing Jay's girlfriend. Wasn't this girlfriend described as being everything to Jay? Jay need not have killed Hae, just make up a story out of whole cloth and sell it to a few people that really wanted to believe it was the truth. bedpan fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Nov 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 01:57
|
|
|
When was it suggested Adnan was involved with Jay's girlfriend?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 03:08
|
|
|
Watermelon City posted:You have to pay attention to your surroundings to be a good shoplifter, right? I have always been suspicious of the idea that someone could/would strangle an athletic young woman in the parking lot of a Best Buy in the afternoon so easily. He said they went there to have sex before, it's apparently not the most observant of places.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 03:12
|
|
|
ReV VAdAUL posted:When was it suggested Adnan was involved with Jay's girlfriend? I can't remember which episode it was but it was one of the earlier episodes. The instance I remember is that one Adnan's friends said that Adnan and Stephanie would go at it in the Best Buy parking lot. There were questions too in I think the first or second episode about Adnan's closeness to Stephanie. It adds a new dimension to the time Adnan and Jay spent shopping for Stephanie's birthday gift. Adnan the concerned friend or Adnan playing a joke on the guy he cucked? bedpan fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 03:14
|
|
|
If Jay killed Hae simply to pin it on Adnan out of revenge... does poo poo like that actually happen, ever?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
Ave Azaria posted:If Jay killed Hae simply to pin it on Adnan out of revenge... does poo poo like that actually happen, ever? Also, Jay doesn't need to have killed Hae, just to confess that he saw Adnan do it or that Adnan confessed it to him. Simple motive, an eyewitness, and an investigative staff who want to make a case. The 'getting charged as an accomplice' part probably wasn't part of the plan, assuming that any of this is correct. bedpan fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Nov 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 03:29
|
|
|
bedpan posted:I can't remember which episode it was but it was one of the earlier episodes. The instance I remember is that one Adnan's friends said that Adnan and Stephanie would go at it in the Best Buy parking lot. There were questions too in I think the first or second episode about Adnan's closeness to Stephanie. Pretty sure it was Adnan and Hae getting down in the Best Buy parking lot. The podcast has only discussed Adnan and Stephanie as very close friends, but doesn't allude to anything more. There is some speculation, though, that Jay was cheating on Stephanie with Jen. That's still unconfirmed, though. Given Adnan's long-standing friendship with Stephanie, Jay's whole allegation that Adnan threatened to kill Stephanie seems far-fetched. (But, as it's come out, during and after the trial, Stephanie 'dropped Adnan like a bad habit' Maybe Jay's allegations have to do with that?). e: clarity. Bitchkrieg fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 04:51 |
|
|
 This is amazing and completely accurate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2014 04:11
|
|
