history is disgusting

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dogcrash truther

twoday posted:

I think I figured out what drove Colve crazy but I guess I'll save it for the book

it was syphilis, wasn't it

# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:00

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:10

GEExCEE

dogcrash truther posted:

it was syphilis, wasn't it

my money is on this

# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:10

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

Dont bully me! posted:

haha New Orange is not New England and never will be!

*chants* YANKEES SUCK YANKEES SUCK

Indeed, New England is not New Netherland. Even the term Yankee is derived from the conflict between the Dutch and English: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=yankee

GEExCEE posted:

implying that this town rightfully belongs to the english... that's a a keelhaulin'.

Actually, Colve punished a few people for something similar by keelhauling them by a rope around the neck (for those who don't know, keel hauling was a maritime punishment that involved being dragged from one end of a ship to the other underwater, being scraped against the barnacles underneath the ship as you struggled not to drown) , and when they survived, he whipped their wounds till they bled and saltwater leaked in, and then branded them, and then killed them.

...

So, epilogue. A few days ago when I posted in this thread I said I didn't know about colve's life but I felt I had to tell his story. In the last few days I figured out his entire biography.

He was a young man born into a military family, but I think he wasn't the eldest son and had to work his way up the ranks. At 24 he went to the jungles of Suriname and survived an attack by the English that killed half the Dutch people in his fort. Somehow he survived and hung around waging guerrilla warfare, and in the following year he was promoted to being in charge of everyone there for whatever he did in that fight. He was in charge of this jungle outpost for five years and then went back home for just a month before being sent off on an insane mission with a young admiral who had personally spat in the face of the King of England and survived. Together with him they went to Africa, South America, the West Indies, Virginia, and New York, destroying and capturing ships and recruiting Dutch supporters along the way. They conquered New York and ruled it for two years, and they barely gave it up.

Blah blah blah

Ok, thanks BYOB

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# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:38

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

dogcrash truther posted:

it was syphilis, wasn't it

No, he was a young man left in a minor position of power in an obscure colony that and then the English invaded and killed half his men and he had to wage guerrilla warfare from the inhospitable jungle for a year before backup came. Look at a map of Suriname today, it's 2014 and less than half a million people live there and there has still been no success in establishing human habitation anywhere but a few miles from the coast. It was a mad wilderness and it drove him crazy. imagine Vietnam without any modern technology or knowledge of what makes water free of disease. and snakes and poo poo

twoday fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Dec 23, 2014

# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:41

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

dogcrash truther posted:

it was syphilis, wasn't it

also that's probably a good guess for someone who loved in the jungle so long but I think he lived for another 20 years so probably not

# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:51

tao of lmao

twoday please hang out in byob more

# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:54

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

I don't have too much to say besides elaborate rants about 17th century Dutch colonial history

# ? Dec 23, 2014 01:56

GEExCEE

like we said, please hang out in byob more

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:00

GEExCEE

this poo poo is so cool... do you know what the name of the colony in Suriname was? Does it even exist anymore?

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:01

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

GEExCEE posted:

this poo poo is so cool... do you know what the name of the colony in Suriname was? Does it even exist anymore?

Fort Zeelandia. Still Exists. I want to go there now that I know all this.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=fort...ih=1084&dpr=0.9

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:05

tao of lmao

GEExCEE posted:

this poo poo is so cool...

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:06

GEExCEE

aguirre, wrath of goes

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:06

GEExCEE

twoday posted:

Fort Zeelandia. Still Exists. I want to go there now that I know all this.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=fort...ih=1084&dpr=0.9

holy cow

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:07

tao of lmao

twoday posted:

I don't have too much to say besides elaborate rants about 17th century Dutch colonial history

i made a thread for you

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3689693

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:07

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

GEExCEE posted:

aguirre, wrath of goes

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:10

GEExCEE

this movie would rule so hard

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:17

GEExCEE

twoday posted:

Fort Zeelandia. Still Exists. I want to go there now that I know all this.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=fort...ih=1084&dpr=0.9

Apparently it was used as a torture site by the military government back in the 80s. Place has some bad juju.

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:23

alnilam

twoday posted:

klaus kinski is nuts

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:45

alnilam

Dont bully me! posted:

twoday please hang out in byob more

Pls do it's easy just look at our other threads you can just say weird stuff and it's fun

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:47

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

Ok ok, who am I to argue with the will of the public?

You guys listen to my stories more attentively and give better feedback than the other sub forums anyway

I hijacked this thread to talk about my own bullshit and you guys voted it golden, so sure I'll hang out more

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:52

tao of lmao

I'm p sure it was gold before but we respect skill and knowledge in the yob.

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:56

dogcrash truther

twoday posted:

Indeed, New England is not New Netherland. Even the term Yankee is derived from the conflict between the Dutch and English: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=yankee

Actually, Colve punished a few people for something similar by keelhauling them by a rope around the neck (for those who don't know, keel hauling was a maritime punishment that involved being dragged from one end of a ship to the other underwater, being scraped against the barnacles underneath the ship as you struggled not to drown) , and when they survived, he whipped their wounds till they bled and saltwater leaked in, and then branded them, and then killed them.

...

So, epilogue. A few days ago when I posted in this thread I said I didn't know about colve's life but I felt I had to tell his story. In the last few days I figured out his entire biography.

He was a young man born into a military family, but I think he wasn't the eldest son and had to work his way up the ranks. At 24 he went to the jungles of Suriname and survived an attack by the English that killed half the Dutch people in his fort. Somehow he survived and hung around waging guerrilla warfare, and in the following year he was promoted to being in charge of everyone there for whatever he did in that fight. He was in charge of this jungle outpost for five years and then went back home for just a month before being sent off on an insane mission with a young admiral who had personally spat in the face of the King of England and survived. Together with him they went to Africa, South America, the West Indies, Virginia, and New York, destroying and capturing ships and recruiting Dutch supporters along the way. They conquered New York and ruled it for two years, and they barely gave it up.

Blah blah blah

Ok, thanks BYOB

Sounds like it's a great story, man, good luck writing that book!

# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:58

tao of lmao

Yeah as the pieces start to fill in it's even more fascinating. I love poo poo like this.

# ? Dec 23, 2014 03:53

thatbastardken: A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

yo just wanted to say this thread owns, wack rear end history owns, twoday and GEExCEE own, will ~~buy~~ borrow your book from a library (I am a poor)

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

# ? Dec 23, 2014 04:33

minidrummingrobot: FLVCTVATÂ·NECÂ·MERGITVR

Dont bully me! posted:

Yeah as the pieces start to fill in it's even more fascinating. I love poo poo like this.

ok, since you guys seem legitimately interested, I will give some more detailed info. here's a fun story:

So in 1672 France and England (supposedly an ally of the Netherlands) decided to try to wipe the Dutch off the map and divide the territory between them. The Dutch weren't ready, and everyone panicked. At the time there was a huge dispute between the two main provinces, Holland and Zeeland, about the future of the republic. The Hollanders wanted a full-on people's republic, but the Zeelanders wanted a hereditary Stadthouder, the Prince of Orange, to help rule. They were suddenly invaded from all sides, even by little German countries working for the English and French. While the fleet of Holland was fighting the English off the Dutch coast, the rulers of Zeeland came up with a crazy plan to rob the English East India fleet off of Africa, or the English Islands in the Caribbean, or the Tobacco fleet, and use the money to build up Zeeland and let them outstrip the Hollanders and restore the Prince of Orange to power. They sent Evertsen and Colve on this secret mission. Both of them hated the English and they were told to wreak havoc upon them. The went to St. Helene, off of Africa, then Suriname, then the Caribbean, loving the English and stealing their ships and guns, growing in power as they went.

One night they were parked off shore of a Caribbean island held by the English, and they weren't sure whether to invade. Colve led the troops, Evertsen led the ships, and they disagreed about what to do. So that nobody would hear them argue they got into a little boat and sailed away from the main ship to discuss it in private. The two of them there, Evertsen who had spat in the face of the king of england and his brother the duke of York, and Colve who would later dominate the duke's pet colony, sat in this little boat discussing what to do and then BOOM a few feet away an english cannonball crashes into the sea. The say gently caress it, and take their little boat back to the main ship and wage war on the island and conquer it and go on to wreak much furthur havoc. The conquer a few more islands and steal more ships. They happen to meet another Dutch fleet and together they go to Virginia. They capture the entire year's shipment of tobacco and the escort that was supposed to be guarding it, taking all their loot and burning a lot of the english colony in Virginia to the ground before the arrive in New York, where they are greeted as liberators by the Dutch people there and proceed to turn everything on its head for two years

thatbastardken posted:

yo just wanted to say this thread owns, wack rear end history owns, twoday and GEExCEE own, will ~~buy~~ borrow your book from a library (I am a poor)

yeah man, what I really want is to accomplish something before I die, as in change the way people think about america's history, money is nice but no worries if you don't pay me directly

e: accidentally posted while my friend was still logged in, this is still twoday

minidrummingrobot fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Dec 23, 2014

# ? Dec 23, 2014 04:34

tao of lmao

haha colve is a certified psycho badass

# ? Dec 23, 2014 04:40

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

everyone in Holland was pissed when they found out about this a year later, but it was too late to stop it and anyway they were busy fighting off every army in western europe.

Colve went around to every village around New Jersey and Long Island with a troop of soldiers demanding that the English settlers swear loyalty and elect Schouts and Schepen for their villages (people of power in the Dutch legal system). He digs up the gilded scepters and ornamental gold necklaces that the dutch had been hiding that bestow power to mayors and oligarchs under the dutch system, and he holds elaborate ceremonies to swear in his faithful subjects. He declares martial law and starts turning the whole colony into a North Korea style war machine bent on defending against English invasion, digging trenches, building walls, and demolishing houses and forcing even the wealthiest merchants into hard labor that fortified his new territory.

Amsterdam was the capital of Holland and Colve hated Holland and their republican bullshit, so even though he reconquered New Amsterdam he didn't call it that. He renamed it New Orange, after the prince of Orange he supported. It was not a colony under rule by the government of the Netherlands, they were busy fighting for their lives in Europe and they would have hated the idea of having a colony in America to deal with. But it didn't belong to them anyway. New Orange belonged to Zeeland and the Prince and Colve and his insane friends who came up with this secret plan, and Colve would rule it for a long time after word from the Dutch government told him to stop what he was doing and let the English have New York, reigning terror upon everyone in his reach.

twoday fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 23, 2014

# ? Dec 23, 2014 04:53

GEExCEE

Awesome stuff. Once I saw Zeeland I kind of suspected that Colve's adventures might have had something to do with the royalist/republican split but I didn't realize it would get this crazy. Is this all stuff you knew about before, or is this new? Is the stuff about it in the same archive as the New York colonial documents?

# ? Dec 23, 2014 05:21

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

there were two books ever written about this:

The first was published in 1928 by a society of old sailors and is in Dutch and says a lot about Evertsen's voyage

the second is called "Raid on America" and was published in the 80's, written by an American and a Dutch guy. It gives a lot of interesting info about Evertsen's background and the voyage and the combat, because they were naval historians and they like that stuff. It says a little bit about Colve's reign but is mostly about the ships. It's a really good read and I recommend it. It seems to have been unnoticed by scholars since.

Neither says anything about Colve from before or after this time, nor does any other history book written in the last 200 years, as far as I know. What I know about Colve's time in power is based on that book from the 1850's I linked earlier and documents in the New York State Archive that I saw myself which have not been translated or published.

In the past few days I have found some documents which say that Colve was at a certain place at a certain time, and by knowing what happened then and there I can guess a lot about what he went through

I also just constantly read a ton about 17th century Dutch history, so I know a lot of context. I have this elaborate narrative built up in my head now based on many sources and it's not easy to immediately remember what part of my knowledge comes from where, but then when I am writing I am forced to provide sources and after a bit of thinking usually I can remember where each bit of info came from or find something else which explains it

twoday fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Dec 23, 2014

# ? Dec 23, 2014 05:39

GEExCEE

That book from the early 20th century AFP linked earlier had some information about Colve's administration in New Orange. Is that a reprint of the other, older book?

# ? Dec 23, 2014 05:49

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

GEExCEE posted:

That book from the early 20th century AFP linked earlier had some information about Colve's administration in New Orange. Is that a reprint of the other, older book?

Which one? I thought I only linked to the one from 1853

# ? Dec 23, 2014 05:56

GEExCEE

anime gently caress pillow posted:

Yeah, it seems the knowledge of New Orange has been circulating since 2011 or so but mostly it's just commentary on the dutch retaking the city and renaming it. There seems to be nothing at all on Colve before or after. This book says he was an infantry commander and another thing I read said he was an admiral. If you find anything out about him, please do share it here after you use it to make a penny. I'm very interested!

# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:02

twoday: C-SPAM Times best-selling author

that book, like most others about New Netherland or colonial New York briefly mentions Colve. in general they summarize the period of his rule in a sentence at worst (the Dutch briefly reconquered the colony but it quickly returned to the English) and a few paragraphs at best, and some mention a detail or two like this one saying he was a captain, but they never elaborate on the details of his time in power or explain the harsh dictatorial nature of his regime or how it affected the people

twoday fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Dec 23, 2014

# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:13

GEExCEE

Yeah it's not really about him but it does quote some proclamations issued by his government.

# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:27

alnilam

ffuck this is cool, I'm going to eat an orange irl

# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:30

Diqnol

I love this thread. Thanks again, twoday.

# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:30

Osmosisch: I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."