grognards.TXT: The slayers of all things fun are not just in Atheism, Video Games, Co

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > grognards.TXT: The slayers of all things fun are not just in Atheism, Video Games, Co

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DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

By nerd standards a well-washed nerd who has a girlfriend and a car is a dudebro.

# ? Dec 6, 2014 18:49

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# ? May 5, 2024 17:41

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

James Desborough gets his inflammatory card game pulled from DTRPG.

Who's to blame? Fred Hicks, apparently.

Pundowski posted:

Should a Guy Who Hates Non-Underdressed Clerics but Thinks Preteen Maid Pseudoporn is "Art" Get to Decide What RPGs All The Rest of Us Buy?

�Should DTRPG be a gatekeeper? Maybe, maybe not. But the hubbub and rage around the game in question kinda indicates a �yes�, to me.�

The above is Fred Hicks (of Evil Hat games), explaining how HE, through commercial pressure to DTRPG, should be the Gatekeeper of the RPG hobby. He just out and out admitted it.

You see, Evil Hat just recently put pressure on onebookshelf to get them to ban James Desborough's (admittedly moronic) "Gamergate" card game. In a knee-jerk reaction after Fred Hicks complained to them, instead of bravely standing up for customer choice, or pointing out the inherent conflict of interest Hicks has as a competitor, they instead totally folded and pulled Desborough's product.

Do YOU think that Fred Hicks should be the one to decide what RPGs should belong in the hobby and which don't?
Before you comment, do keep in mind that Fred Hicks is buddy-buddy with the people who publish the Maid RPG, so he has no problem with an RPG where you play a preteen pseudo-slave in a transparent uniform performing humiliating and sometimes sexualized tasks to please her adult male "master", but thinks a Gamergate comedy card game is a moral outrage worthy of censorship.

Is that who we want deciding for all of us what we should or should not be allowed to buy? He literally believes he's more qualified and wise to judge what's best for you than you, to the point that he feels he should get to control what you're even allowed to consider buying.
Note: I'm not even saying Maid should be censored. I'm saying NO ONE ELSE should get to decide for me which games I have access to. I am also saying, of course, that Fred Hicks and his ilk would in any case be the most utterly unqualified people on earth to be moral arbiters of what should or should not be banned. But of course, that's the irony, anyone who thinks they have so much more wisdom than anyone else that they should get to decide what is best for everybody is by default automatically disqualified from being morally or intellectually worthy of such a power.

And if OBS sticks by the decision to ban Desborough's game, there's no telling which other games will be next. One thing that will be clear is that the choices will be just as hypocritical: obscene misery-tourism storygames that simulate things like necrophilia and pederasty will be kept on because they're written by the 'right people' for these assholes, while D&D OSR sandboxes will get banned because they have drawings of fully-armored female clerics they judge to be looking just a little too sultry.

I'd strongly suggest that if you would rather that YOU get to decide what RPGs you can choose to buy, rather than Fred Hicks, you may want to WRITE to OBS and express your concern about the censorship of Desborough's game. This is NOT about Desborough, this is definitely NOT about supporting gamergate, this is about making sure a total rear end in a top hat doesn't get to choose from now on which RPGs will be allowed to be commercially viable and which won't.

Send complaints here? (unless someone comes along in the comments and shows us a more direct route that will get to the people in charge at OBS)

RPGPundit

Currently Smoking: Lorenzetti Solitario Rhodesian + C&D's Pirate Kake

# ? Dec 6, 2014 21:04

Darwinism: Jan 6, 2008

Slimnoid posted:

James Desborough gets his inflammatory card game pulled from DTRPG.

Who's to blame? Fred Hicks, apparently.

Never stop being crazy, Tarnowski :allears:

It really does never stop being funny that a company making a decision about what products they offer is :byodood:

CENSORSHIP :byodood:

# ? Dec 6, 2014 23:13

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

quote:

obscene misery-tourism storygames that simulate things like necrophilia and pederasty will be kept on because they're written by the 'right people' for these assholes, while D&D OSR sandboxes will get banned because they have drawings of fully-armored female clerics they judge to be looking just a little too sultry.

Yeah because Desborough wrote a D&D OSR sandbox with drawings of fully-armored female clerics, right? :rolleyes:

Wait, wasn't it Tarnowski that got his panties all up in a bunch too over the fully-armored female cleric in the CYOA tutorial portion of the original Red Box in the first place?

# ? Dec 6, 2014 23:19

Saguaro PI: Mar 11, 2013; Totally legit tree

Is there actually an example of Fully Armourec Clerics & Dungons being removed from DTRPG or is he just being Pundit?

# ? Dec 6, 2014 23:28

LatwPIAT: Jun 6, 2011

Slimnoid, quoting Tarnowski posted:

But of course, that's the irony, anyone who thinks they have so much more wisdom than anyone else that they should get to decide what is best for everybody is by default automatically disqualified from being morally or intellectually worthy of such a power.

He doesn't realise the irony, does he? :allears:

# ? Dec 6, 2014 23:29

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

Pundowski posted:

I know certain desperately want to turn this "Fred Hicks As DrivethruRPG's Gatekeeper" issue into a gamergate thing, but that's not what it's about. It's a gatekeeping thing.

The fact that Desborough's latest stupid game was about gamergate doesn't matter, because if we say "yes, it's ok for Fred Hicks to be allowed to pressure OBS into letting him decide which games are allowed" the next thing that will happen is that Fred Hicks will decide that Red & Pleasant Land, or Ursine Dunes, or Dungeon Crawl Classics (to pick some random examples) is doing far too well, and all of a sudden what do you know? he finds something "offensive" in those books to justify banning them too.

I guess that's fine right, I mean everyone can just keep buying Evil Hat's games, right?

Pundowski posted:

I don't really give a poo poo about James Desborough or his games. It's not him I'm backing.

What I'm backing is the fact that a small group of elitist assholes (like Fred Hicks) that are so delusional as to be convinced of their right to rule the rest of us for "our own good" should NEVER EVER be allowed the actual power to decide what is or is not allowed in the RPG hobby.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Wait, wasn't it Tarnowski that got his panties all up in a bunch too over the fully-armored female cleric in the CYOA tutorial portion of the original Red Box in the first place?

Sorta. He got buttmad because Sarah Darkmagic made a post about it.

# ? Dec 6, 2014 23:32

Saguaro PI: Mar 11, 2013; Totally legit tree

"It can't be about the issue that it is, because I desperately want it to be about how I think Hicks is trying to destroy the competition."

# ? Dec 6, 2014 23:50

Libertad!: Oct 30, 2013; You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

An Evil Hat representative/employee in charge of sales mentioned that their company would not sell their product on a shop which sells pro-GamerGate products.

Given how villified GG is getting even in the wider video game fandom, it makes sense that even a small table-top company wouldn't want to be associated this way even indirectly.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 00:14

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Yes, Hicks is cackling as he destroys the competition to his OWN card game! You know, that one. The one he sells. What was it's name again?

# ? Dec 7, 2014 00:18

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

ProfessorCirno posted:

Yes, Hicks is cackling as he destroys the competition to his OWN card game! You know, that one. The one he sells. What was it's name again?

I hate to ruin a good joke but it's Zeppelin attack

# ? Dec 7, 2014 00:24

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

unseenlibrarian posted:

I hate to ruin a good joke but it's Zeppelin attack

Soo what you're trying to say is that it's actually about ethics in air superiority?

# ? Dec 7, 2014 00:26

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

unseenlibrarian posted:

I hate to ruin a good joke but it's Zeppelin attack

I refuse the joke to be ruined!

Yes, I can see a lot of overlap between a game about funky zeppelins and pulp action and gamergate. It's clear why Desbo was such a threat!

# ? Dec 7, 2014 01:51

Guilty Spork: Feb 26, 2011; Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

I like how Pundowski is acting like Fred Hicks is personally dictating what DTRPG sells when in real life there were dozens of people writing to DTRPG directly to complain about it. But mentioning that would screw up his bullshit narrative.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 03:43

Chaltab: Feb 16, 2011; So shocked someone got me an avatar!

Somehow I don't think Evil Hat, whose flagship product is an OGL pay what you like, is terribly paranoid about shutting down competition. Why is it that any time someone privately tells assholes to peddle their assholewares elsewhere, the response is conspiracy theories? Does being a jerk also make you stupid?

# ? Dec 7, 2014 03:44

Pulsedragon: Aug 5, 2013

Chaltab posted:

Somehow I don't think Evil Hat, whose flagship product is an OGL pay what you like, is terribly paranoid about shutting down competition. Why is it that any time someone privately tells assholes to peddle their assholewares elsewhere, the response is conspiracy theories? Does being a jerk also make you stupid?

Look, that doesn't mean RPGPundit can't blame gamergatecardgamegate on STORYGAMERS BECAUSE SWINE ARE INFILTRATING REAL RPGS YOU FOOLS CAN'T YOU SEE?!

# ? Dec 7, 2014 03:48

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

Chaltab posted:

Somehow I don't think Evil Hat, whose flagship product is an OGL pay what you like, is terribly paranoid about shutting down competition. Why is it that any time someone privately tells assholes to peddle their assholewares elsewhere, the response is conspiracy theories? Does being a jerk also make you stupid?

They've got two options:

1) Move on from the incident by either putting more effort into the product your trying to sell or abandoning it all together to focus on something more worthwhile.

or

2) Make yourself into the victim of an advisory that's dedicated to destroying something you care about (and clearly has the power to do so) while getting automatic support from reactionaries who'll now most likely buy your product unconditionally.

Do you seriously think the first one was ever an option to them?

# ? Dec 7, 2014 05:26

xiw: Sep 25, 2011; i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum
Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner

quote:

How do you handle torture

quote:

This seems to come up sometimes in my games (A lot actually, now that I think about it) but I don't know of any mechanics to go off of for it.

Often the characters won't win a flat out intimidate check so do I give them a +X bonus for every hour they torture a character? Do I give them bonuses for the "imaginative" ways that they torture a person? Are there any actual rules for handling this? Seems like as much as I hear about it coming up in games someone would have made some rules for it.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 05:26

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

quote:

So I was doing some NPC brainstorming and one thing I'm working on for session 2 (or maybe 3) of the campaign is that of a female devotee of Nurgle. I'm looking to ideally avoid the cliches but am looking to also make something which is slightly twisted.

Initial spitball idea is a moderately large overbaring matron like character with an immense collection of the dead or decayed of various species (including human). Now for the weird bit I was thinking that an odd gift of the gods bestowed upon her would be to have her permanently with child (gift of the gods can cover all food and water needs so I suppose it covers this). Nurgle does cover death and rebirth, this was covered in ToD. The odd part though is that every entity born of this woman is always stillborn unless it would serve the lord of decay somehow. As if a macabre mockery of the process of life and death.

Rather than be horrified, she delights in the experience, preserving her dead offspring like you would a family pet, taxidermy or jars.

Feedback welcome. As said I want to avoid most of the Nurgle traits of sickness and disease of the followers to some degree. Suggestions to further the twisting of the mind are appreciated.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 06:46

Hollismason: Jun 30, 2007; FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD THIS POST

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.

quote:

I've gotten angry about stuff regarding WH40k though. First time was when some of the Dakkites here described the Bloodtide thing in the Grey Knights Codex using excessively lavish descriptions of what was done to the Sisters. After reading the thread for a few hours and getting madder and madder, I ended up taking my metal Grey Knight Terminator that I painted while at a psychiatric hospital (with a very nice paintjob, too) and basically butchering it, both with red paint and a hobby drill.

Incidentally, some of the stuff in World of Warcraft has gotten me that angry. Only in that case, it was canon, not fans overexaggerating things. Like when the Draenei Priestesses were violated at Aldor Rise by the attacking Orcs, then had their throats cut before being thrown off the cliff. Or when the Orcs used captive Draenei in a cross-breeding program to create supersoldiers with the physical strength of a demon-infused Orc and the magical prowess of a Draenei. Or when the Iron Horde were murdering captured Draenei and Frostwolf Clan Orcs to use their souls to fuel a portal through which to launch an invasion. Or when the Bloodmaul Ogres in the Slag Mines murdered their underperforming slaves by throwing them into fire (that one I have to see happen again and again, every time I do that dungeon) and laughing about it. Or when the Shadowmoon Clan Orcs were murdering captured Draenei to use their souls and blood in rituals to summon an evil entity with which to destroy the primary Draenei temple. Yup, the current expansion has given me a lot of these little moments of burning rage that makes me wish there was a holodeck where I could tear them apart limb from limb, but nooo, I have to be satisfied with clicking little buttons to make the bad guys fall down.

Oh why would you be so upset oh I see :catstare:

# ? Dec 7, 2014 06:53

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Here's something a bit old (a few months), but I don't recall seeing it in grogs.txt before.

quote:

Gamethyme, I suspect maybe you are not exactly who you claim to be, a bystander. No one without something invested in this, somehow or someway, would bother to write on and on about it like you did today without bothering to read my replies. [To wit: I explained AND apologized in full to you regarding the community college reference I made to the Kickstarter backers, but not you incidentally. However either you didn't read it or you pretended I didn't apologize to you. If so, isn't that rather shrill rhetoric?]

Clearly you have a hidden agenda here. You are intimately involved in perpetuating this trolling campaign for a definite reason, what reason you have I'll may never know. Perhaps your hobby is haranguing people online from the safety of your bedroom. Perhaps you work for someone. Erp!

You do write fairly well, with careful editing. Are you are in the biz? Could this be... professional jealousy?

Surely not.

Must admit, I'm rather curious. Its a mystery. You've lured me into your story.

So why not email me with your real name, after all you already have mine (plus my email I'm sure). Lets have an honest and private dialogue stripped of showmanship.

[extremely long, thorough and thoroughly polite, boring response]

quote:

wow, no truce, just attack and attack again. wash, rinse, repeat.

all day I was hoping that we perhaps had a concordance, or at least a polite understanding.

Alas, I had hoped we, together, could be reasonable, that we could talk frankly, but no.

I give up. you win.

you all win.

congrads, u beat me.

quote:

Not overly rude, that is ridiculous, did you read his earlier posts? He is not even a backer and he is nitpicking every word and every state to an outlandish extent, painting me in the most unflattering way he can as a kind of sport. A sport he openly admits to engaging in.

As I have said before, several times, I AM ZOMBIE KS was done well before Democracy went off the rails. Should I stop all creative work on that KS because another KS is delayed?

People have mentioned to me that there are places online where people, many not even backers, got together to encourage others to post here for "answers". Answers which are obviously not actually desired since you all down vote all my answers.

quote:

You are not even a backer, how do you have so much time to waste? Can't you spend you time more productively perhaps creating something yourself?

Mark Rein�Hagen, storied storyteller of stories and luminary of the RPG industry. In an AMA on Reddit. Where I guess he didn't expect (surprisingly polite) criticism on his two floundering Kickstarted games.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 07:04

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Plague of Hats posted:

Mark Rein�Hagen, storied storyteller of stories and luminary of the RPG industry.

And also a burgeoning MRA :allears:

Error 404 fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Dec 7, 2014

# ? Dec 7, 2014 07:12

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Error 404 posted:

And also a burgeoning MRA

Oh, I hadn't heard that one.

That's just great.

:smithicide:

# ? Dec 7, 2014 07:32

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Hollismason posted:

Oh why would you be so upset oh I see

Please tell me this was Hybrid Son of Oxayatl (since we're talking about Dakka). He's been mentioned in a few of the older Grog threads, and he's always come off as a bit insane in every conversation he's in.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 08:47

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Poor draenei. It'like their fluff is written by some neckbeard

By the way, are storygamers the ones that RPG without rules?

# ? Dec 7, 2014 14:51

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

JcDent posted:

Poor draenei. It'like their fluff is written by some neckbeard

By the way, are storygamers the ones that RPG without rules?

Storygamers are just people who play different games that aren't "real" RPGs. A lot of the games the don't like are more "openly" designed (like Apocalypse World) or ones that are made to be more about the narrative than direct combat ability (Capes/Truth & Justice vs. Champions/Silver Age Sentinels in the supers department)

The best analogy I can come up with is that these games are hated the same way "core gamers" hate video games like Gone Home. Stodgy old white guys get afraid that other people will enter "their" hobby and take it over.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 16:29

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

rkajdi posted:

Storygamers are just people who play different games that aren't "real" RPGs. A lot of the games the don't like are more "openly" designed (like Apocalypse World) or ones that are made to be more about the narrative than direct combat ability (Capes/Truth & Justice vs. Champions/Silver Age Sentinels in the supers department)

The best analogy I can come up with is that these games are hated the same way "core gamers" hate video games like Gone Home. Stodgy old white guys get afraid that other people will enter "their" hobby and take it over.

Oh, the art people. :barf:

So busy making video games art (hey guyz, accept my medium!) they almost forget to make them games.

My humble opinion is that casuals are dangerous for videogames, and I think the MS Paint special about Women Ruining Hobbies also had the same idea about PnP RPGs. ...tho my experience would say it's kind of hard being a casual RPG player. I only ever played 4th ed (once) and I don't like the generally MMORPG feel of it, character creation wasn't at all what I'd say easy. It never is.

Even in Risus.

So, RPG grogs fear both arts and casuals?. That's interesting.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 16:54

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

As we all know, John Tarnowski's latest project was an OSR retroclone based on Indian mythology titled Arrows of Indra. He's always denied that there was any relationship with or influence from the classic old-school Indian mythology derived Empire of the Petal Throne RPG. Well, someone at YDIS ran some side-by-side comparisons of the magic systems of the two games, and um...

Arrows of Indra priest spell list posted:

Tier 1(hosed up the order)
1. Light*
2. Calm water/wind/people*
3. Protection from evil/good*
4. Dispel Magic spell*
5. Bless/Curse*
6. Charm monster*
7. Send field of warped perceptions that blind*
8. Find object*
9. Cause insanity(Gaze)*
10. Create food and water*
11. Heal wounds(minor
12. Levitate*
13. Open Portal*
14. Dispel illusion*
15. Cause disease*
16. Hold Portal*
17. Summon Monster*
18. Cause Fear*
19. True vision*
20. Blind Gaze

EPT priest spell list posted:

1. Calm water/wind/people*
2. Create food/water*
3. Summon monsters*
4. Curse/Bless*
5. Dispel illusion*
6. Dispel Evil/good Spell*
7. Hold portal/open portal*
8. Cause fear*
9. Heal wounds(minor)*
10. Levitate*
11. Light*
12. Locate gold/gems
13. Locate objects*
14. Cause madness*
15. Cause disease*
16. Protection from evil/good*
17. Send wave of shadows that blind*
18. Detect other planar/invisible poo poo/True vision*

94% overlap (marked with asterisks), and that's just one example of how much of AoI is taken from EPT, despite Tarnowski's vehement denials and general poo poo-talking of Tekumel and Barker.

The guy posted it to RPGsite and the last brave honest truthteller in all of RPGland immediately started banning people and deleting posts and wildly lashing out at strawmen. It's amazing.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 17:08

Hollismason: Jun 30, 2007; FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD THIS POST

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.

rkajdi posted:

Please tell me this was Hybrid Son of Oxayatl (since we're talking about Dakka). He's been mentioned in a few of the older Grog threads, and he's always come off as a bit insane in every conversation he's in.

It's not its someone else who also is completely insane like legitimately. It's from the "Angriest you've been in a 40k game", which is full of just crazy poo poo.

quote:

It's been years since I played with any random opponents. Actually, it's been at least a decade.

The one I do remember was this one jerk. He had a regular problem with body odour (turned out he's schizophrenic and was terrified of the shower) . One day he's playing in a tournament against one of the younger kids, who'd brought less than the points limit of the tournament (not by a little, either, it was a 1500pts tournament and the kid had brought around 600 to 700 points or so, or maybe 900, I dunno, it was a decade ago and my memory is fuzzy on details). So the kid asked the guy if he wouldn't mind lowering the amount of points in his army to be roughly comparable. It wasn't a serious tournament or anything, just a tiny local thing. But the jerk declined to reduce his points.

I was that jerk . In what little defence there is, I had kinda lost a crapton of games (I think, actually, that I never had won a game except against my younger brother) so the prospect of what would be an easy win was too tempting to ignore.

If you go looking you'll just find tons of this :stare:

poo poo. Especially in Off Topic.

Hollismason fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Dec 7, 2014

# ? Dec 7, 2014 17:22

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

FMguru posted:

As we all know, John Tarnowski's latest project was an OSR retroclone based on Indian mythology titled Arrows of Indra. He's always denied that there was any relationship with or influence from the classic old-school Indian mythology derived Empire of the Petal Throne RPG. Well, someone at YDIS ran some side-by-side comparisons of the magic systems of the two games, and um...

94% overlap (marked with asterisks), and that's just one example of how much of AoI is taken from EPT, despite Tarnowski's vehement denials and general poo poo-talking of Tekumel and Barker.

The guy posted it to RPGsite and the last brave honest truthteller in all of RPGland immediately started banning people and deleting posts and wildly lashing out at strawmen. It's amazing.

Oh wow I hope there's screencaps.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 17:38

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

FMguru posted:

94% overlap (marked with asterisks), and that's just one example of how much of AoI is taken from EPT, despite Tarnowski's vehement denials and general poo poo-talking of Tekumel and Barker.

The guy posted it to RPGsite and the last brave honest truthteller in all of RPGland immediately started banning people and deleting posts and wildly lashing out at strawmen. It's amazing.

So he's famous and accomplished as Derek Smart is famous an accomplished?
Also, is there anything legit going on in RPGnet? Because from Gronards.TXT I imagine it like a place that not just attracts the worst in the hobby, but the worst egoists in the hobby. Was it ever a good a site? :ohdear:

# ? Dec 7, 2014 17:51

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

JcDent posted:

Oh, the art people. So busy making video games art (hey guyz, accept my medium!) they almost forget to make them games.

My humble opinion is that casuals are dangerous for videogames, and I think the MS Paint special about Women Ruining Hobbies also had the same idea about PnP RPGs. ...tho my experience would say it's kind of hard being a casual RPG player. I only ever played 4th ed (once) and I don't like the generally MMORPG feel of it, character creation wasn't at all what I'd say easy. It never is.

Even in Risus.

So, RPG grogs fear both arts and casuals?. That's interesting.

Dude, source your grog.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 18:23

SunAndSpring: Dec 4, 2013

rkajdi posted:

Storygamers are just people who play different games that aren't "real" RPGs. A lot of the games the don't like are more "openly" designed (like Apocalypse World) or ones that are made to be more about the narrative than direct combat ability (Capes/Truth & Justice vs. Champions/Silver Age Sentinels in the supers department)

The best analogy I can come up with is that these games are hated the same way "core gamers" hate video games like Gone Home. Stodgy old white guys get afraid that other people will enter "their" hobby and take it over.

Maybe if Gone Home was good and told an interesting story people would've liked it.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 18:52

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

SunAndSpring posted:

Maybe if Gone Home was good and told an interesting story people would've liked it.

I don't particularly like Gone Home either (like the attempt, but the game is poor), but that makes it a bad game, not a non-game. You get a lot of that "Gone Home/latest non-core game isn't a real game" out of the core gamer crowd, same as you get "storygames aren't real RPGs" out of the grog crowd. It's stupid tribalism in both cases.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 19:14

thotsky: Jun 7, 2005; hot to trot

rkajdi posted:

Apocalypse World

Apocalypse World is in many ways one of the least "story-games" indie games out there. The mechanics and rules are clear and concise and a lot of the fun in the game comes from using them. Player and GM responsibilities and roles are spelled out and very strict. It's really a love-letter to crunchier old-school systems, but one where the mechanics have been written in a way that directly creates the fun experiences one would hope to happen by circumstance in those older systems. It does use a lot of techniques and theory that the story-games community have developed over the years, but it is a poor example of the sort of "free-form, rules light, artsy-fartsy indie shlock" that people who dislike story-games decry. It is, however, loving awesome.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 19:57

Pulsedragon: Aug 5, 2013

Biomute posted:

Apocalypse World is in many ways one of the least "story-games" indie games out there. The mechanics and rules are clear and concise and a lot of the fun in the game comes from using them. Player and GM responsibilities and roles are spelled out and very strict. It's really a love-letter to crunchier old-school systems, but one where the mechanics have been written in a way that directly creates the fun experiences one would hope to happen by circumstance in those older systems. It does use a lot of techniques and theory that the story-games community have developed over the years, but it is a poor example of the sort of "free-form, rules light, artsy-fartsy indie shlock" that people who dislike story-games decry. It is, however, loving awesome.

See that would make sense if "Storygame" didn't really translate to "Game I, a huge grog do not like". And don't get RPGPundit started on any of the *World games. In Apocalypse world all the characters have sex moves, so it's a game for perverts, plus it lead to Dungeon World, which as you know is part of a conspiracy to destroy the OSR.

Also he really likes Amber Diceless which is pretty storygame. But it's not because RPGPundit likes it.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 20:39

Chaltab: Feb 16, 2011; So shocked someone got me an avatar!

Error 404 posted:

Oh wow I hope there's screencaps.

The thread's still there in their Reviews subforum.

Pundit, regarding the blog Your Dungeon is Suck posted:

No, its a hate-blog created by an SA-Goon, usually filled with 4chan-levels of profanity and adolescent dirty-jokes, that attacks OSR games and game designers. They have for a long time had a hate-on for Zak, Raggi, and myself in roughly that order (but they often branch out to attack other OSR designers).

# ? Dec 7, 2014 20:59

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Pulsedragon posted:

See that would make sense if "Storygame" didn't really translate to "Game I, a huge grog do not like". And don't get RPGPundit started on any of the *World games. In Apocalypse world all the characters have sex moves, so it's a game for perverts, plus it lead to Dungeon World, which as you know is part of a conspiracy to destroy the OSR.

Also he really likes Amber Diceless which is pretty storygame. But it's not because RPGPundit likes it.

Yeah, this is a better version of what I'm trying to say. Newer games where some level of thought about the narrative occurred during design are what get lumped in as storygames, regardless of the level of mechanics. Like a non-game game, storygame is a term for "game I don't like by people I don't like".

# ? Dec 7, 2014 21:38

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Chaltab posted:

The thread's still there in their Reviews subforum.

To be fair, YDIS is a terrible website.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 22:03

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# ? May 5, 2024 17:41

Chaltab: Feb 16, 2011; So shocked someone got me an avatar!

FMguru posted:

To be fair, YDIS is a terrible website.

Well yeah but calling it a hate-blog is just :ironicat:

as hell given Pundit's ongoing war with ~~eastasia~~ The Forge/Storygamers/Swine.

# ? Dec 7, 2014 23:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > grognards.TXT: The slayers of all things fun are not just in Atheism, Video Games, Co

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