2+2 Mafia Championships: Forget It Merk, It's Thingyman

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > 2+2 Mafia Championships: Forget It Merk, It's Thingyman

«‹›13 »

EXAKT Science: Aug 14, 2012; 8 on the Kinsey scale

So after tonight there will be six?

# ? Dec 4, 2014 02:16

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 19, 2024 05:33

Mills: Jun 13, 2003

Yeah.

Mislynch again for 4 and LYLO.

In theory without power roles.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 02:24

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

EXAKT Science posted:

So after tonight there will be six?

No, 6 now. 5 after the NK.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 02:41

EXAKT Science: Aug 14, 2012; 8 on the Kinsey scale

Oh, I thought there were eight alive before the lynch for some reason.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 02:43

Mills: Jun 13, 2003

Someone said 8 earlier but maybe that was before the NK.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 02:45

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Mills posted:

Someone said 8 earlier but maybe that was before the NK.

That was me and yes.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 02:52

windshipper: Jun 19, 2006; Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

HOLY poo poo!

This is still a thing that is happening again.

Is there anything worth reading or whatever?

Edit:

Also how the gently caress are DWetzel or The Moocher allowed into this fucktravesty?

# ? Dec 4, 2014 03:50

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

windshipper posted:

HOLY poo poo!

This is still a thing that is happening again.

Is there anything worth reading or whatever?

Edit:

Also how the gently caress are DWetzel or The Moocher allowed into this fucktravesty?

I'm quoting all the good bits, just read this thread.

Also, hi windy!!

# ? Dec 4, 2014 04:12

windshipper: Jun 19, 2006; Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Yep.

I still hate these people.

Still gonna read this game.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 06:25

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Ok, first up. Tappo's case on merk. It is long and terribly biased. I wanted to yell at him while transcribing it.

The Life and Times of Merk - Day One

Merk enters with a bit of fluffery. Tom makes light chit chat.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
That sounds like tappo. I once watched him get CC'd by a wolf as seer and get himself lynched.

I think it was partially Cory's fault.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I like Merk so far. He reads completely open.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
How do you approach the game when you lack meta knowledge of 2/3 of the players? Serious question. I feel far out of my comfort zone here compared to a game like GoT. I think looking for extremes (very villagery or very wolfy posting) is the way to go on D1. For example: Merk, Marv and yamato all read carefree so far. I would expect them to be villagers.

Merk was reminiscing about game three. It'd be easy to imply that his posts were wolfy. Instead Tom gives him an effusive villager lean.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Hey buddy, this post feels really guarded. Murska

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I should've looked at the next page before voting. This post also feels really guarded.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
GOTTA MAKE SURE TO READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE VOTING

SOME MAJOR GUARD HERE

+5 HELM OF THE GUARDING

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This post is like 100 words, all of which do nothing to help us find scum.

This guy is scum.

Just your standard issue wolfy attack on a newbie villager. Merk's level of certainty is not in keeping at all with the evidence he presents.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
If you're going to vote me, even as a joke, at least respond to my Murska stuff please. I'm as convinced as I can be at this point in the game that he's scum.

Three or four villagers (if he's a wolf) had jumped on him.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
what

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
How do you think his post helps us find scum in any way? well named's three posts do nothing to advance discussion of who is scum.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Who do you think is scum?
What content do you find scummy so far in this game?

Telling the game who is acting villagery-ery does nothing to help us find scum, the point of our collective vote. If you're filling the game with 'this person is villagery-ery' comments, it's just noise. If you read something that you don't understand or disagree with (just like you did with my 'what' post), zoom in on it.

To get on a soap box for a second (and I'm not saying you're doing this): I had a disagreement in game 3 with a few players who were doing the 'let's win by finding town' strategy. That is a losing strategy. I eventually let the discussion die away because I knew it would help my win condition.

Note that there's no hint of a wolf lean on WN here. There easily could be. After all, Merk decides that a couple of other players are lock wolves for fluffing it up early.

There tends to be a correlation between wolves getting heat and wolves doing distancing.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
My Murska case:

Murska is posting in a guarded manner, clearly concerned about his perception in thread. He isn't giving us open and honest opinion about things; he is trying to walk a very thin line.

Great examples include times where he is talking about general mafia principles rather than trying to find scum and, in another post, analyzing a case and coming up with the end conclusion basically being 'well, I guess I don't know what the ****.'

It's an early d1 case, but it's a pretty drat good early d1 case.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This is an exceptional early d1 case.

Athexx

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
To me, it's not that the posts are role neutral, it's that the posts are completely unhelpful. He's happily diving into content that does not help us determine anyone's alignment, even his own.

It's kind of the same case that I have on Murska. Yours is actually better though when you see it all together.

Re Thingy's case on villager Athexx. It wasn't an exceptional early d1 case. Thingy just noted that Athexx wasn't really doing anything in his first nine posts. Again, the supposed level of certainty is on a wholly different level than the evidence.

Thingy's case stopped being true during d1. Merk stuck to the Athexx wolf lean anyways.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
For example, I really don't like these two sentences. There isn't really enough there for me to talk about it yet.

A little soft-push on villager Tommy D.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This is really dangerous. If you're advocating that someone should evaluate the quality of their vote based on other unknown alignment players voting with or against that vote, you have to take a step back.

If you're town, the only alignment you know in the game right now is your own. If you are altering your alignment reads based on your opinion about other players' alignments you do not know, you're inviting trouble.

That said, it's perfectly fine to change alignment reads based on flips of other players. For example, if you flipped scum right now, I might look at what players said about you and what you said about other players.

The final paragraph is a bit of awkward, pointless wolfiness.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Quote one of the posts I call out with my original vote and explain the difference.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Your distinction does not make any sense. I'd like to mine that out.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Ok, traz. I find your distinction between jcohen's posts and Murska's posts to be completely made up. I've given you every opportunity to explain that distinction outside of your high-level comments (which I find to be completely made up).

I'm to the point where I feel like you are unable to explain the distinction at a zoom-in level, which, to me, makes it clear that it's made up.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Also, I need to distinguish between what you're trying to say I'm asking you to do (this) to what I'm actually asking you to do: explain the distinction on a post vs. post basis between any of Murska's posts that you say are fine and jcohen's post which you said was scummy.

I do not believe you can do it because you made it up. That is scummy.

Cohen's posts didn't look anything like Murska's posts, though. Traz alluded to the differences more than explained them, but still, this is another bad push on a villager (if Merk is a wolf).

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=96

Counterproductive, but towny. I'm not sure mafia would admit to this point blank like that.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=111
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=116

This post tells me you thought about your opening post, and couldn't think of anything good. Mafia is more likely to over-think their opening and resort to something safe than town.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=164
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=276

Posts are objectively scummy. I don't think anyone will disagree so I won't bother explaining. Doesn't make him scum though.. just a little more likely.

That's not what's interesting though about merk_sa. Those posts (and others) are so blaringly scummy that any other mafia to bus him would need to be doing so knowing they're essentially pointing out their partner's failings. I doubt very much that's a day 1 strategy in the game of mafia champions, so anyone who hopped on merk_sa shortly after these comments probably isn't scum if he is.

In addition, merk_sa and TommyDanger's interaction I can't see as a scum/scum dialogue in any world (unless they're both smoking weed). So lots of non-partner reads on merk_sa.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=180

I read about 20% of the content in your longer posts. I respect that type of play, and without even knowing all of what you said I'm fairly sure you're town. Way too much original thought was put into those posts for you to have faked it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=319

If merk_sa is mafia, so is Murk. Don't think this one needs explanation.

Arc comes in with some analysis. This is a levelly, gimmicky wolf who liked pulling distancing ploys in his previous wolf game. Calling something wolfy while insisting that doing so can't be wolf/wolf is fairly wolf/wolfy coming from Arc.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
I think if merk_sa is mafia then thingy is not. He jumped on him early. No one is going to risk their MVP title by bussing their partner on day 1 who didn't want to be bussed. Look for busses today, then say they can't be a team

I doubt he's quite so unbalanced in his ranges that this means he bussed. But he either did or he didn't, so it's 50/50, am I right?

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
Don't don't don't don't DO NOT greenread Merk_Sa for early aggression. That is exactly what got him hardcleared early in the previous champs game and allowed him to coast on that status for the entire game as the thread devolved into a gigantic bickering fight of everyone saying how retarded the game actually was.

This was a part of a really long post. Merk's performance in game three had already been discussed, so there's little new in that part. The bit about coasting isn't really true, in my opinion. Monstr's actually lowering expectations for Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This is like #1 on the Top 50 Mafia Mistakes list. Too scummy to be scum can most definitely be a scum strategy. Don't write it off because you think it's suicidal; that might be exactly what he wants you to do.

Soft-pushing Crunkus here.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I'm voting traz and will continue to vote traz. The case is the exact same as it was when I put the vote down, and he's done absolutely nothing to help us find scum since I made that vote. He still is avoiding my reasonable question.

Traz was pretty goddamn aggro on d1, though. In the interim he had been pushing Tommy D. Why does Merk think that does nothing to help us find scum? Merk himself was suspicious of Tommy earlier.

Merk has this habit of slipping in things into his reads that aren't really true or should be unknowable to him. I don't think he really cares about truthfulness; he has strategic reasons for his pushes.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I respect your opinion and also noted.

Can you explain merk now? I might just have an overexaggerated hesitation to clear him because of the previous champs gamr.

Monstr wants Cory to explain why Merk is villagery.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
What I said before that seems pretty accurate afaict is that he had a very aggressive start of the game and pretty much railed into a villager and that gave him early green reads after which his activity level dropped somewhat and he coasted on tone.

I personally feel like he's being cleared too lightly as well.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
If merk's aggression continues into d2 then I'm assuming we can clear him but I only have the one game of experience so I don't know exactly what he's capable of.

Again, the part about coasting and lack of aggression on later days seems untrue to me. He was definitely aggressive on d2 and kept pushing people and making cases on d3. So these are ostensibly critical posts about Merk that actually lower the bar for him below where it should be.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
traz
Athexx
Murska

probably in that order. I think Arcbell's catch up posts from earlier today are scummy but don't have much more to say.

I'd probably vote Tommy (I think it was him?) for that thing I cited earlier on in the day.

Bunch of villagers with heat, a nod toward a wolf, then another villager with heat.

Also, why did Merk say that Traz had done nothing to help us catch scum, when Traz had pushed Tommy in the posts Merk was talking about?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Cool, I'm happy to push this forward: Murska

I also want to know why some people think Murska is town. Thingyman, for example, has Murska in his town list.

Villager Marv pushes villager Murska. Merk jumps on.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This dude is probably scum. Talking negatively about a lynch on town without any analysis is one of the easiest to catch newbie scum tells. Tommy would need to be town for this to work though.

Pushes villager Athexx for defending villager Tommy. When Athexx provides a bit of analysis soon after, Merk has no reaction.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Just because you've played a lot of games doesn't mean you are above newbie scum tells.

I've also been playing since like 2003.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Athexx

Yeah, that post of his is nothing more than an attempt to discredit my comment.

This is stupid. Merk accuses Athexx of exhibiting a newbie scum tell. Athexx argues back. Merk thinks its wolfy. It's not. Like, Athexx is not going to come in and agree that yes, it really was a newbie scum tell.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I think putting a little pressure on merk_sa will help me grasp his alignment better.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Are you going to make a case or just throw a vote out?

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I dunno I don't really have one just trying to get your attention.

For my own benefit, can you give me three people you think are most likely to flip villager in your opinion?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
A naked vote does nothing. I'll ignore it.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
Obviously not since you came into the thread and interacted with me after I voted you, which was pretty much the exact intent behind the vote so that I could ask you the question you just avoided answering.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
merk why are you ignoring me

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I don't do town reads. I hunt scum. I'll gladly tell you who I think is scum. I think I did it on the last page.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
Well... bleh I can tell by your vote who you think is scum.

Alright new plan

What if your biggest scumread flips villager? Where do you go from there?

Might be the most awkward interaction in the entire game. Those are some softball questions right there.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
monstrman, I will, even though I don't like to do this, say that I think you're town at the moment. I've been mostly skimming your posts after I came to that conclusion.

You are completely different to what I saw from you in game 3.

I don't really mind this since Monstr was different, but it's still worth noting that Merk's pushing pro-wolf positions fairly exclusively up to this point.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
You seem to think Athexx is scum. Will you vote Athexx with me?

What do you think of his recent posts that do nothing but try to discredit my vote on him rather than advance scum hunting discussion?

The final question is stupid and clunky. Why wouldn't a villager react negatively to a vote on him? Does every post have to advance scum hunting discussion? Can't you use at least some of your posts to defend yourself? Athexx was pushing Phelan hard anyways, so it's not a very balanced look at his posting in total - which is what Merk said earlier he wanted to do on d1.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I didn't see this before. Your entire case is that I'm scum because I'm confident in reads? What would you expect of me? I don't hem and haw around 'leaning' villagery-ery or wolfy; I just don't do that - it's pointless. I will never do that. If I'm going to put a vote down, it's a confident one.

The other stuff in that case is your own fluff that really lessens the persuasiveness of the actual meat.

Merk mischaracterizes my case here. It was mostly based on evidence not matching his confidence, not that he's confident per se.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I'll help you guys.

Merk_sa

Moocher and I are voting for Merk. Tom joins in without having any sort of a wolf lean on Merk. He treated Yamato similarly. Soon after Tom departs to Saber.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I kinda don't wanna lynch merksa either but I don't know where to put my vote right now

Monstr never said or implied that he wanted to lynch Merk, so there's little need to make this post, other than to advocate against further votes on Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Ok, last post before I'm really leaving for like three hours:

I think I would join an Arcbell lynch if none of my other candidates were trending. He popped in, said some stuff I didn't really like, and then popped out. He pointed to a few of my posts that he said were blatantly scummy, but he didn't even vote me? He also tried to find pairings instead of a single scum, which is content that is much easier to fake for scum than standard scum hunting.

His other candidates, for the record, are Traz/Athexx/Murska

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I have my doubts about merk because I saw him be just as aggressive and just as indignant in the last champs game but idk people reading me as a villager always messes with me slightly I'm actually kind of succeptible to pocketing and he felt kind of genuine when he was responding to me as well.

Waffly rubbish.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
Also, based on my dismal reading I'd still want merk_sa .. anyone have him conf town for any reason?

Arc shows up as lead wagon. Merk has a single vote at this time.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I won't be here for deadline. The traffic in ibis about to let up after I pass this wreck I think.

I'm keeping on athexx

This was Merk's big chance to vote for lead wagon Arc, like he said he would earlier. He blows it. Wolf/wolfy.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Enjoy the one-man wagon. You've done so much for us today.

Wolf/wolfy.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I don't want to vote for Yamato or Arcbell.

I want to lynch someone we've discussed all day as wolfy and who actually has thread presence (which provides more information).

Phelanpt has 166 posts.

Traz has 117.

merk_sa has 96.

saberwolf has 90.

None of them are obvious villagers to me. All have been topics of discussion.

Let's lynch one of them.

Phelan has three votes, the others one tops.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
Okay. So I just read marvellosity's post. I don't get it.. apperantly that was a good post, but it amounts to "he could be scum because I'd expect him to change his style if he was scum." I give a concrete reason to scumread someone and oh it's a "retardo push."

The idea that perhaps a tactic I'd use as scum is to change my style from what it was last game.. and because I'm playing different -> I am fulfilling that vision? I mean I'm sorry but that's totally empty. I wish I had time to dissect the reasons people had for following that particular case but I don't. I'm going to vote merk_sa in a solemn hope that my initial read was on point.

Lead wagon Arc votes Merk, who's not a serious wagon at this point. Could easily be counterspew.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Not voting for a counter wagon

What do we make of this

Tom uses the vote to defend Arc.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
merk_sa

Tom joins the Merk wagon. Note that the lead wagon is the wolf vig and that Tom has not pushed Merk at all - and will not do so during EoD. He's mostly about lynching Tommy D.

A bunch of villagers (if Merk is a wolf) join the wagon at this point and push it to the lead.

Tom jumps off, at which point the Merk wagon consists of a bunch of villagers and Arc, who got on while there was no wagon.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 09:19

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

tappo's champion case keeps going (this one is really long)

The Life and Times of Merk - Day Two

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I am going to reevaluate the game once I have an opportunity to sit down and do so based on these flips. My first reaction from a skim is that I still think Athexx is scum but want to try to see if I come to the same conclusion after a fresh reeval.

I'm off site at work today so it might not be until tonight / tomorrow morning.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Probably should expand on the Athexx thing:

I feel like the Athexx lynch never gained traction even though you had a few loud voices advocating for it early in the day (Thingyman) and some agreement among the thread that Athexx was scummy when asked (traz, I think others?). However, a lynch on Murska and Tommy was the end-of-the-day decision and Athexx was not even anywhere near a point of discussion.

I think that scum helped push the lynch decision to be town vs town and Athexx (scum) went back into the shadows.

I need to read fresh to see if this makes sense though, and I can't do that until tonight/tomorrow morning.

After having pushed villagers pretty much exclusively on d1, Merk enters with more of the same. The wagonomical post is bad and contains unnatural assumptions. There's no methodical attempt to look at wagons - just spreading doubt on a villager. He doesn't use his knowledge of his own role in any way even though he himself was the lead wagon before Tommy/Murska.

I don't remember him doing anything similar again.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Isn't that the only option if scum killed Murska? With the Doctor dead, scum would know Murska wasn't lying and have no reason to kill anyone else because they don't fear a protection. Murska's death has to be from scum imo.

What else could've killed jcohen besides a Town Vig?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Two mafia kills a night is a terrible setup decision. I don't care what the town power roles look like.

Derp clear denied.

There's some interest at this stage at lynching Merk, but it's all from villagers (if Merk is a wolf): me, Traz, Murph...

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
If merk_sa is actually a wolf this prolly looks really good for moocher/gamer

Question for marv, any particular reason you were soft defending merk like that?

"Actually a wolf"... Highlights a villager defending Merk without expressing a wolf lean of his own on Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
Eh I'm not gonna lie I keep rereading merk_sa and thinking he's villagery

Right-o.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I'm sticking with my merk _ sa villager read as well I don't care if part of that is bias because he's reading me as a villager, and I don't care if people think I'm wolfy for that either.

That's part of a larger reads post.

No one's called Monstr wolfy for it. Guilty conscience?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Hey len,

I notice you've had Merk as a villager since yesterday. You don't talk much about him though.

Sup?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I ask because apart from merk your villager reads are kinda consensusy. That one stuck out. Ditto for WN; got notes on him too?

Tom wants Len to talk about his villager reads on Merk and wolf WN.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Currently we are gonna lynch Crunkus for being useless or lenC because Moocher peeked him wolf or Phel for not being a villager or Luckbox for pretending he doesn't have reads or Merk because he might have been saved last night

How was work

This is summarizing what has been said in the thread. Tom has no wolf lean on Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I'm going to do that as well.

unvote while I read this section I've picked out.

Merk enters and makes some posts about Moocher's wolf peek on Len. Then he gets to rereading a section he has picked out. Seems like he's not reading the entire thread.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Murk_sa ISO impressions:

He's slow to get into the game, lots of joking. First game content is voting Murs for being guarded and fluffing.

He's super convinced Murska is scum. Enough that he wants people to address Murs before they are allowed to vote him.

Second suspect is WN. But his post here:

Sounds an awful lot like his response to WN here:

But this is also the guy that said being a hypocrite isn't wolfy.

The recap of his Murs case is he isn't posting carefree. That's kinda right since Murs was a PR.

Two minutes later he's sponging Thingy's case on Athexx.

Tom does a Merk reread. It reads almost as a defense: Tom points out a weakness, then explains it away.

This is the one and only "ISO" Tom did in this game, I believe. I wonder why he busted out this trick for Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
This post is insane.

Merk had >60% off topic posts by the time he said this.

His only on-topic contribution at this point was saying Murs is a wolf and WN is weird.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
At the very least his uncanny ability to find wolves is admirable.

Merk made an insane - not really - post, had a bad wolf read. Hard-hitting stuff.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I haven't really made a case.

Not really, no.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Me thinking out loud. I haven't come to a conclusion on merk. Was hoping you'd have some insight to offer, but...

Trying to portray Phelan as wolf/wolf with Merk, perhaps.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
TTT

TTT has one of the highest, if not the highest, post count in the game. It�s really difficult to boil down a case to the two or three things that I think are important. I�ve made an attempt. I want to note that these are not the only examples of what I�m pointing out but, instead, are the ones that jumped off the page to me. If you combed through his history, these three scummy themes are truly themes. There isn�t a single line of discussion I could find that refutes any of them.

TTT is:

starting to open lines of discussion that might eventually lead to scum hunting only to abandon them with no rhyme or reason, never to be heard from again;
making unpersuasive, low-impact votes; and
spending far more time trying to find villagers and being a buddy in the thread than finding scum.

------Starting to Open Scum Hunting Only to Vaporize Away Lines-----

Where is the follow up to this statement? He throws it out nakedly and never comes back to it. He does not analyze a single vote on Tommy beyond this sweeping statement.
Tom on Arcbell ->

He makes a light prod at Arcbell and barely follows through with it at all. There�s no investigation into Arcbell�s posting history, no element of persuasion, just a flat question for opinion of others and a walk away.

--

Tom has a dialogue with Thingyman about monstrman and traz. Here are some excerpts � it is really long, so I�ve cut it a lot:

�this continues for awhile� and then ->

�this continues some more� then ->

At the end of that big �investigation,� nothing. Absolutely nothing. Not a single read that matters in the slightest. A full three pages of pure nothing.

This sum-up post for another player is a great example of TTT having no opinions that matter. His biggest lynch desire is on Crunkus for being worthless, nothing to do with alignment.

Even on me, after finding what he thought was some scummy stuff, he comes to no conclusion and asks for help from others.

If I have time to do it, I am often a player that asks questions of others and attempts to figure out alignment by seeing what others have to say from my reads. The difference is that my reads are usually strongly presented and when I ask opinions of others, I react to those opinons and actually determine alignment from what is said. Tom doesn�t do that. When he asks an opinion of someone, he doesn�t use the opinion to move the needle on someone�s alignment at all. He does a walk away. He isn�t actually scum hunting.

-------Low Impact Votes-----

This is an unpersuasive vote,� it has no persuasive element whatsoever. No one is going to follow the lynch of Crunkus on a �who cares what his alignment is� case. Even if Crunkus gets lynched by some miracle, if he flips Town TTT can just say �well, he was a negative force; lynch made sense� and have zero culpability in the lynch. If he flips Scum, TTT can say �see, I was right� and look townie from it. It�s a vote that is nothing other than a win/win for him. He can repeat this vote day after day if he wants (exactly what I did with Herbie/CPHoya in game 3).

-----Villager Calls / Buddying Up Instead of Scum Hunting-----

Tom is actively trying to buddy up to people in the thread. It seems like he�s trying to make friends and stay on every player�s good graces rather than investigate their alignments through content.

Big-assed wolf case on Tom. The point at the bottom about the Crunkus vote is aight, I think. The rest is on the weak side, although it does show more depth of thought than other reads Merk has made in this game. That might be a sign that this time he's telling the truth as he sees is.

The thing to remember here is that a ton of people have Merk as a wolf suspect and next to no one is interested in lynching Tom.

It's an odd coincidence that they decide to reread each other.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk,

Are you arguing that talking to people you're suspicious of is not beneficial?

At best you can argue that I've made some "why not" votes in this game, but that's how I play when I'm both exhausted and a bit exasperated.

I think the last thing you can accuse me of doing in this game is buddying players.

Was this in response to my reading you?

Tom defends himself. I know Merk has argued that Tom trying to dismiss his case is somehow wolf/villagery, but there's no logic to that. Tom's going to argue back regardless of who makes a case on him. He's actually being surprisingly lenient.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Someone yesterday said that Arcbell looks a lot different than he did in game 3. I completely disagree. I don't think he's scum for it at the moment, but I disagree with whoever said that yesterday (Thingyman?) to say that Arcebell is town.

All that's missing is Merk's opinion on Arc's affiliation.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I don't know what tappo's alignment is at this point. I actually thought I was going to case him when I first started my read because he came out of the gate today by just throwing up something unpersuasive about me being scum.

I'm torn because I think he might genuinely be upset that he lost to me in Game 3 and I gloated about it, so he's shoe-horning everything I say into a 'this dude is scum' position.

That said, he hasn't said anything memorable outside of light mentions here and there saying I'm scum. That 'float under the radar but still have a case on someone' approach is scummy.

I guess I'd lynch him, but I wouldn't feel as confident about it as I do in this TTT case.

From early on Merk has fairly consistently ignored the substance of my posts about him and attacked my credibility instead.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This is another misrepresentation; that's two on this page from you. That is not what I said. I said that votes should equal confident reads, not 100% lock reads.

My best read at the moment is on you. That's the only read I have right now.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa View Post
I think the most likely content to come out of a town player is content that looks and feels like the person is genuinely trying to find scum. It is completely irrelevant how many reads a player is putting out there.

I'm saying you aren't hunting scum. You act like you're about to do it, and then you move on to the next lowest hanging fruit.

Reasonable posts. I don't mind.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
REPOSTING IN BETTER FORMAT

Ok the following is in chronological order. There is very little meaningful content between the actions I'm going to describe

This post is just for reference. Most votes were on merk_sa, while second place was Tommy. corycurren seems to accept this, as he votes accordingly for Tommy. I don't see a townread on merk from cory but he's at least voting in the cross. Several posts later, with NO MENTION OF MURKSA we see corycurren post this:

He doesn't give an explanation for why he's voting someone who wasn't even on the map at that point. Remember, the vote is between merk_sa and Tommydanger, with merk_sa in the lead. For some reason between point A and point B, corycurren has decided he doesn't want to lynch either, and instead wants to vote someone else... but that's not even the strangest part.

Gamerdude -> murksa
Top Tier Tom -> murksa
saberwolf13 -> murksa

LOOK AT THIS ****! With absolutely no explanation whatever, no content from Murksa, 3 people silently vote along with corycurren's random chainsaw a couple mins before EOD. No one knows why cory did it, no one knows why any of these three did it.

We then have jcohen -> tommy, and tommydanger -> murska, with a caption that he is doing it to protect himself.

In response to that comment,

marvellosity -> tommy. Marvellosity was previously voting merk_sa.. same person cory just chainsawed off of. Again I want to remind everyone that THERE WAS NO CONTENT FROM MURKSA OR MERK_SA THAT BROUGHT THIS ON. Tommydanger basically gave marvellosity the excuse he needed to hop off merk_sa, which was a wagon I started and was followed as people townread me and stopped voting me and started voting merk_sa.

Marvellosity obviously didn't want to be voting merk_sa in the first place, and just did it because he just came off me, and that was my vote.

Marvellosity -> Murska, another random swap, this time the only thing that happened was Murska softed. Marvellosity swapped onto him BECAUSE HE SOFTED that's the only possible reason. If he didn't think he was mafia enough to vote him in the first place, why did he vote him when he softed PR when threatened by everyone else????

Dwetzel is here, voting Murska (I think he was the only one voting Murksa here prior to the cory BW). He feels the need to pop in and announce that his vote is staying, even though he was clearly hard on Murksa before the claim anyways. Why announce this? IF HE IS HERE WHY ISN'T HE VOTING BETWEEN THE BANDWAGON? HOW COULD HE POSSIBLY KNOW CORYCURREN WOULD DO A RANDOM LYNCH ON MURKSA???

Murksa then claims and the following happens wordlessly.

corycurren -> Tommy
moocher -> Tommy

toptiertom -> Tommy
marvellosity -> Tommy
lenc -> Tommy

All of which is to be expected, except for that they swapped to Murksa for no reason, then swapped off when he claimed which is strange. THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS NO ONE TOWNREAD MERK_SA WHY WAS ANY OF THIS NEEDED?

In conclusion,

The change from merk_sa to Murska was either mafia initiated, or mafia supported, and merk_sa is mafia because there's no motivation for the wagon to come off him when mafia is controlling the lynch.

Dwetzel is probably mafia because he was here and not voting for someone in the BW until corycurren came along.

Gamer Dude is probably town because he defied the bandwagon off of, but not onto Murska.

merk_sa
dwetzel

This is the primary scum pool, if they're not both mafia I'll be quite surprised.

saberwolf
corycurren
toptiertom
marvellosity

This is the secondary scum pool. If at least two of them aren't mafia I'll be quite surprised.

People don't do things for no reason, especially vote randomly at EOD.

Arc comes in with a wolf lean on Merk. A lot of villagers (if Merk is a wolf) and Tom are implicated.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Arc, the primary reason I think your analysis is dumb or at least incomplete is that you concluded Merk is a wolf due to the wagonomics rather than concluding he's a wolf from his posting. It's not absolutely incorrect to gamesolve that way, but it's definitely less reliable than just trying to figure out whether he's telling the truth or bull****ting.

Tom's defending Merk. I don't understand why that is if Merk is a villager. Instead Tom wants a Luckbox lynch.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
As for voting, I'm more interested in trying again for merk_sa today. Once I feel in a case building mood again I'll collect secondary evidence and compile it. Whoever is actually town, I am relying on you to actually read my things and not just glaze over them trying to snip the basic idea out of them.

It's not bad, but it's also not like Arc ended the day on Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Last last post: Len I like your case but you're going really deep into analysis that's based on thin ideas and instincts

You said as much for both yamato and tappo thought dumps

Could be in the "wolf chasing imaginary tails" range

Apart from that I like the effort

Would you do the same for Merk?

Tom again wants Len to defend Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
Actually irt Tom I've seen his wolf game before and I think the case merk made on him, while to him may have had some merit, the most telling thing to me was Tom's response because I'm almost positive wolf Tom in that position goes alpha and tries to bury his attacker to get clear using aggression

Monstr was a wolf, but this is something Cory agreed with. So why didn't Tom try to bury Merk with aggression? Merk was vulnerable.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
I also kind of think merk_sa going after TTT and wanting attention for it seems villagery. I didn't really care for the case very much though.

WN's not interested in a Merk lynch.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Arcbell's case on me is really scummy. He isn't diving into content at all and trying to use a logic tree from a chaotic deadline to find scum. In day 1 of game three, this exact chaotic shifting thing happened and I think every possible lynch candidate was town. Why did he assume that scum controlled the lynch in this game on day 1 when that wasn't anywhere near the case in the only game he's played here?

Wolfy post, given that Merk opened the day by some theorizing on Athexx that was quite similar to Arc's stuff on Merk. Merk should have problems with the specific assumptions, not the approach as a whole - unless his attack on Athexx was insincere, of course.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I haven't had an opportunity to look at Athexx today with fresh eyes. I locked in on TTT with my read last night and built a case from there. If I have a chance, I'll do a read on Athexx here shortly. Without going back and reading, I think I'd still vote Athexx today - probably my #2 candidate.

You have dropped down on the 'would lynch' list because, to me, you have kind of fallen off into the weeds from a content perspective. I need to reevalaute you as well and thanks for pointing it out.

So his candidates are wolf Tom (not getting lynched), villager tappokone (might get lynched), and villager Athexx (probably not getting lynched).

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Does anyone else think Thingyman is playing a scum game? There is no persuasive element to his posting, just random dialogue about stuff. His votes have no umpf behind them.

A little poke at Thingy.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
What is your Athexx case? What do you think of my TTT case?

I think Arcbell is my #2 right now.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I already explained that I think you believe it but from what I can tell irt ttt ' s meta him not trying to bury you after you posed it looks really good for him.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
As for Merk: I think he believes in his case, so I think he's a villager. I don't agree with him about me or Arcbell but I think he comes from a different place, meta wise.

Merk, your expectations of my play revolve more around your mind than mine. I think the reasons you find me wolfy apply more to Luckbox than me; take a look at him and tell me what you think.

Wolves be defending Merk. He's supposed to be a vulnerable villager with good wolf reads. Why are they giving him villager leans?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Tappo,

Good stuff. Funny that he's basically playing the game the opposite of how I am and suspecting me for it. He apparently only has the attention span for one scum read at a time. That is generically scummy behavior to me.

If he is a wolf, it's because he's had ~zero reaction to my posting to him last night and today. No visible attempt to discern me further.

Merk, you asked me if I can state the Luckbox case without meta, which is essentially, without getting into his head. Can you do same for me? The crux of your case on me was "changing targets is wolfy." Isn't that kind of an inverse meta read based on your own "style"?

Do you have the balls as a wolf to push the top poster? Are you "tom parking" with the knowledge that you won't get me lynched but will look generically engaged for doing so?

Have your thoughts on me changed at all since you posted your case?

What info did you get out of the responses to it?

LMK.

I post a Merk case here. Tom says he likes it, but still shows no interest in lynching the guy.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I haven't expanded my case on you today because I see that you've made an attempt to do exactly the opposite of what I called you scum for doing. Your Luckbox case and vote is a strong stance which cuts directly against the strongest point in my case of you being scum. I think it's scummy of you that it took a case from me for you to make a strong case.

Really, though, I'd like more people to respond to the case. No one has jumped in.

Regarding the Luckbox case, my case on you is not "changing targets is wolfy." It is not that at all. My case is exactly what I say my case is in the three points that I identify, none of which are "changing targets is wolfy." Why do you feel the need to constantly misrepresent this case?

That said, the bulk of your Luckbox case is "Luckbox doesn't play this way" based off of your experience with him from previous games. I don't have that experience. I don't find cases like that persuasive in the slightest. If you can present it in an objective way - I can respond to it.

Merk's stance on Tom is softening.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Cool, thanks.

I need to leave in about an hour. Is there any chance of a TTT lynch here?

No.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
The fact that TTT slammed in a case on Luckbox the morning after I called him out for getting close to but never actually scum hunting should make my case even more persuasive.

The only refutation of the case so far has been "well, that's how TTT plays as wolf or village." Cool. That's not helpful. I learn nothing from that response.

Merk really doesn't want to consider other people's meta reads.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
welp, I haven't read three of those people, so I guess I can do that over the next whatever time I have.

Is Arcbell not viable?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa View Post
Arcbell

I'll read luckbox first.

Reasonable vote. Makes Arc lead wagon over Yamato.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I feel stronger in my case because it took my case to realize something you're doing that is scummy and change it. If you're town, I would have expected you to just keep on keepin' on. You are aggressively pushing Luckbox now.

I haven't read Luckbox yet, but will do so.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
@Merk; you kept asking people for their opinions then complained you didn't get them. You've had a myriad of reactions to me in general since then though; I think about five people replied to the case specifically and more have left opinions on me. Let's see some associative analysis.

I don't like the trap-based reasoning of "he made a case, so he's scummier now." I mostly see mafia use If A -> then B reasoning that ignores all context.

Are you not going to respond to what Tappo said apart from mocking it?

Do you realize you are giving up on your top wolf read and looking for other options? Someone told me that's a wolfy thing to do.

No complaints about this.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
TTT

Fine, I'm voting you for the rest of the game. You have done nothing other than try to misrepresent my case at every possible turn.

My case is very simple. I did not say 'giving up on your top wolf read' is scummy. The case has never said that. The case says three things that are really really simple to read and understand. You have misrepresented them in every post.

This is it. Lynch me or TTT. I will vote him and only him for the rest of my time in this game.

...and he gets off the viable wolf vig wagon he should be voting. Again.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
@Merk; if not going after anyone hard is scummy, why are you not doing so now? Your behavior today mirrors the behavior you said was scummy for me.

Likewise, if it's difficult to keep people's attention on one topic, that supports my playstyle.

Anyway, talk to me about your Luckbox conclusions.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
@Merk; are you unwilling to answer my pretty basic questions?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Traz; what is incorrect about what I said? It's a fact that Merk has done today what he accused me of doing.

-He gave up on his top wolf lean and started looking for others
-When told that was hypocritical he doubled down and stopped talking to me

???

Is he or is he not using an argument for me being scum that applies to himself?

I don't mind the above posts for Merk. It's the first instance in the game of Tom actually pushing Merk. It's not the stuff lock villagers are made of, either.

At around this time Arc leaves the Merk wagon and goes on Moocher, who's obviously not getting lynched. Why not just leave the vote on Merk if Merk is a villager?

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
slightly paranoid he'll flip villager but not really to the point where I'm willing to defend him

Meh.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
merk_sa

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Ath, I'm not opposed to a Phel lynch. I'm mostly wagoning for the sake of wagoning.

But if I had one word to describe Merk today, it's hollow

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
merk

Tom had jumped to Luckbox, then back to Merk.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
phelanpt

I'm just sponging dbmurph here. But it seems pretty good. The meta-aspect of it seems pretty strong

As far as I know the case on tappo is that he hasn't done enough. There's probably something else that I missed, but that's what I've seen. But I've liked the posts of his I've read so I'm not really inclined to lynch him.

As far as merk_sa, I don't know much but I thought hte case he made on TTT was something a villager was more likely to do

WN's still not interested in dat Merk lynch. Merk's wagon stagnates at three votes or so. Tom, who wasn't really pushing it near EoD, jumps to Phelan.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 09:40

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

It keeps going

The Life and Times of Merk - Day Three

quote:

Originally Posted by corycurren
use Master Exploder on merk_sa tiny, tiny skull

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This thing. I'm not familiar with day actions on this forum. Is this an actual action? Should I bother catching up? Should I wait for mod intervention?

How does he not PM the mod and ask?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
well named

I don't feel as strongly as I did yesterday on TTT, but I still would lynch him. I think the well named votes are really good so far, although I don't have much to add to them.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I reread the area yesterday where I double downed on my vote and didn't feel anywhere near as strongly about his alignment as I did when I put more chips in. I can see an argument that TTT was purposely misrepresenting my case not to discredit it but to try to figure out my alignment based on my reactions. If he was trying to simply discredit my case, I feel like it would've been directed generally to the group instead of at me individually. That is, no one cared about him misrepresenting my case but me because he directed the questions directly at me - there's an argument he was just trying to figure out my alignment, not dissuade others from following my case.

yamato flipping scum I think also makes TTT look a little better because he was voting on that wagon from day 1. It's not anything incredibly persuasive because you guys don't do majority lynch rules here, but it's something.

Someone had quoted a d1 vote count with Tom on Yamato. Merk's clearly not reading the thread very closely or at least not retaining the information. Tom of course defended Yamato quite a bit.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Also, when reading, and I don't have any quotes to post:

Is anyone else concerned that Thingyman seems incredibly confident about town reads, like he knows these players are town? I think there's a good argument for him as scum.

Interestingly, the same vote count in which Tom was on Yamato also had Thingy on Yamato. One wonders why that didn't influence the Thingy read.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk confirmed not reading the thread vis a vis that last paragraph

Various people point out that Tom defended Yamato. Tom acknowledges.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
ah. this answers my question. The reason I asked is because you made a post very similar to this the other day. I was just reading your posts trying to decide what to think about you. And so thingy is one of the principle people pushing me, you said the votes on me "are really good so far", which I took to mean you thought the voters were good, so I'm wondering how that adds up? Or what does it mean that the votes on me are really good?

fwiw I think thingy is pretty unlikely to be a wolf but that's not relevant to why I'm asking you any of this

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I didn't remember this post, no. However, it probably cuts towards TTT being town - this is a very big defense for scum to make on another scum that wasn't even posting and probably going to get modkilled. There's no way I'd do that as scum if I was TTT there.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Actually I'm going to say TTT is town with that post now. There's no way you do that as scum with a buddy who is going to get modkilled. If your buddy is in threat of getting modkilled, you either ignore him or slam home votes on him to look townie when he flips.

A bit of Tom defense.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Did anyone vote yamato randomly late in day 2? If so, that person is scum.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Why'd you vote yamato here?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk I have the sense your scum read on me was never real to begin with

How bout them apples

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Did you ever discuss yamato's content before this post?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
What do you think about dbmurph throwing a nod at yamato being scum without ever voting him?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
dbmurph

That random 'oh yeah, heh, yamato is probably scum dudes' thing is glaring. He also was on the Phel bandwagon if that's something that you think is persuasive.

He paid some lip service to the WN wagon and established it as one he might want to vote, then moved on to pushing villagers. Note that Monstr gets one question thrown at him, Murph gets the push.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I look at every case independent of unknown alignments. You really get into a rough position when you are making reads based on what you think of other player alignments that you do not know.

For example, the fact that Thingyman is voting you and I have a potential read on Thingyman being scum is completely irrelevant to what I think about your alignment. When analyzing you, Thingyman's alignment is not part of the equation (unless he's already flipped).

Over-explaining.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I like the thought of putting someone under pressure to get reads. I also have a negative gut read on you. I don't really have anything interesting to say about why you might be scum.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
I believed the lenC peek up until the point where lenC said "unclaimed this peek" and then moocher posted that one picture of a guy getting in his face and that response just didnt feel natural to me, but I still wanted to see how lenC responded because it was possible the peek was on a wolf anyway. Lenc got super villagery and then i saw the vote count just before that post and I noticed yamatomato hadn't posted yet so I wanted to see his reaction when he got into the thread and had a bunch of votes.

Villager yamato would have risen to the challenge and tried to get cleared Imo

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Cool, I think I buy this explanation.

Okay.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Thingyman, you make a lot of posts that I read and just think: "There's no way this dude actually gets this [whatever emotion] about [whatever you just wrote]."

The jcohen dying in n1 thing is another example that jumped out at me.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
Cory, on day one here's what you did:

You took the votes off merk_sa and placed them on the JOAT, the only reason given being "trust in the cory". Now you want to lynch merk_sa again. You exude absolute confidence but your reads are no better than random. If you really want to win this game, it's time to take a back seat. If you don't know why Moocher claimed like he did as town, but there's an obvious explanation for why he did it as mafia, he's PROBABLY MAFIA even if your (proven to be unreliable) gut about his meta says otherwise.

On the other hand, if you're mafia, this is really good play by you. I don't expect you are, but this is god tier feigned ignorance if that's the case.

Arc attacks Cory, who is pushing Merk. Shouldn't Arc be more interested in lynching Merk than undermining Cory or painting Cory as wolf/wolf with Merk?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Arcbell, what do you think of dbmurph? In particular, what do you think of his throwaway comment about yamato being scum?

Merk asks lots of questions to drive up the old post count. Murph and Thingy are getting the push here. WN is mentioned as a wolf lean, but there's no actual reasoning on that.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa View Post
I think dbmurph is scum.
I think you might be scum.
I think Arcbell might be scum.
I think Thingyman might be scum.
I think TTT might be scum.

That's probably my order too; I might even take TTT off the list completely after that yamato post I talked about earlier today.

I haven't jumped into any other portion of your list besides me because I know with a certainty my alignment and your justification for putting me in the red column is completely made up and indefensible.

I don't make town reads. I made a town read on monstrman yesterday and haven't revisited that except with a little nod today on his yamato thing.

Ok, cool, I do have to go. Later.

"[Y]ou" here is Moocher. Merk earlier said that Tom is "town now with that post" and that "there's no way you do that as a scum". It's interesting that he still lists Tom here. Wanted to make the list bigger or more accurate, maybe.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Moocher (auto corrected to Moo her), what do you think, in your heart of hearts, about my dbmurph vote?

There's quite a bit of fluff here.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
monstr is town. I will die on that vine.

Where the hell did this come from? He was questioning Monstr just a little while earlier.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Thingyman is probably scum but won't get lynched because he's literally spent all game making friends instead of trying to find scum.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
DreamBigMurph (new name), I don't accept the other explanation. I feel good about the vote. I will ISO you this weekend and might have more to say!!

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
thingyman

This is Thingyman time. If you aren't posting areas about him (or me) you're doing it wrong!

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa View Post
DreamBigMurph, what are you drinking? What do you think of thingyman's alignment? Real talk.

There's a trollish undertone to his posting.

quote:

Originally Posted by monstrman
Merk: i think his ttt case is something he doesn't do as a wolf at this stage in the game. That's literally it. I could see him flipping wolf if my PoE is more or less wrong but w/e

From Monstr's big reads list.

quote:

Originally Posted by corycurren
will go more in depth later but i have a very high degree of confident in merk_sa being a wolf.

he's struggled immensely since day 1 and has produced almost no new content and his appearances are pretty wolf ****: light engagements and attempts to banter. basically he's failing to blend.

his aggressive push on murska day 1 is an empty shell of whatever behavior he's exhibiting now, and i remember monstr storming in during day 1 and telling people they shouldn't clear merk early for aggression - which, if you understand how monstr plays, is actually something very much in w/w range. need to see if merk responds at all; i doubt he does.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I haven't seen villagery posting from Merk. He reads detached, like he's lost and confused. His case on me was the only time he's been lucid. No bueno. He can't resist talking about off topic crap and that's generically wolfy and also just unhelpful. Didn't like his turnaround on me because "Tom hard defended Yamato and I wouldn't do that as a wolf so Tom wouldn't either." That's just too easy. He fronted his case on me like it was super well developed and complex and now he's dropped me as a suspect for an incredibly simple reason as soon as other people started treating me as clear. That's some shady wolf ****.

I'm aware we have more juicy targets up for grabs but we can't just forget about him because he's always far in the background

There's an undercurrent of "Remember that time Merk pushed me? That's a thing that happened" to this. Tom's bussing WN at this time.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Cory I had a little nadir of doubt about you late D2 but I think you're right about both monstr and merk so I'm fine letting you run the show today. If you die next I'll fill the void. Leave me your final will and testament and I'll go from there.

And Monstr, too.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Hmm.

Pressure Merk with me.

Merk

Oh, the pressure.

Tom a bit later goes back to WN.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
Things I've done pertaining to the game in the past ~20 hours:

...

Started doing a case on merk_sa, but ended up with too much ambiguous to be worthwhile, and scrapped it.

quote:

Originally Posted by Arcbell
I'm gonna throw my vote up on merk_sa just because he's the only person in these bws I had a real fos on at any point in the game.

This makes it something like WN 4, Monstr 4, Merk 4. I'm on Merk and it should be pretty easy to see I'm not staying there, though. WN and Tom can go on Monstr at any time.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I'm a little worried about the monstr lynch now but I don't want to accidentally misclear him if other people are right

So I'm just gonna vote someone else

Really no clue on WN. Just been voting him as backup and because he lock cleared Luckbox in a weird spot where I don't think that's possible but I could see WN flipping either way. I feel about him the way Cory feels about Merk.

I would happily lynch Merk or Luckbox, but especially Merk. I think he's all but given up on this game.

Has anyone been defending Athexx today? As in does he have a palpable wolfy thread pull away from him?

I've moved to Monstr now and Merk's down to three votes. Tom's voting WN who also has four votes. If Tom and WN wanted to, they could get Monstr to six in a jiffy.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk_sa

Monstr has five votes at this point, all from villagers if Merk is a wolf.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
As for people on the wagons:

Monstr > Merk = WN > Arc in terms of trust

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
If these are the choices, I think monstrman is town and I'm town, so well named

Why does he think Monstr is town? Why is he doing town reads all of a sudden? Just wanted to pretend not to know Monstr's role/give himself a reason to vote WN?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
We lynch Merk

He flips W we admonish WN and lynch Athexx and Monstr

I realize it's level 1 but I think he's a wolf playing at level 1

I think pretty much everyone has a wolf team with Merk on it

Usually that's a good sign

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I get you. I like Monstr / Merk wagons for this reason. I don't wanna detail the Monstr wagon because I see merit there but as time goes on I'm only getting more comfortable about lynching Merk.

I don't understand why anyone has him as villagery, particularly in the last 72 hours.

Monstr at five, WN at four, Merk at four.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I hate that the one time Traz and Luckbox were concerned with who got lynched to the point they intervened and tried to draw support it was D1

And since then just behind the scenes murmuring

If Merk flips omega PR wolf they need to be killed with furious fire

Like no words, no deliberation, just kill them ASAP

Uh huh. If Merk is a wolf, he might have a power.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
I would shoot merk and I don't think it's close. Merk is like point 2 on the "well named hunts wolves who are voting him very conveniently today for no apparent reason" :P

He basically never mentioned me before this game day, where I became a "gut" wolf read after I got some votes, and now he's characterizing his vote on me purely as "well if I have to choose between (whomever it was) and well named, then well named

I seem to recall making some post about athexx's case on phelanpt and why it seemed villagery the other day. I have no idea what if anything he's done today, but that's good enough for me.

Not sure on YOLO. You or moocher I guess :P

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk

His villagery high moments are still less villagery than Monstr's high moments

Lack of any believable development since he made a case on me and then dropped it for exactly one reason also terrible

And D1 wagonomics

Sounds good bros

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
His reads development seems like that in general, IIRC. I'm still reading. I also agree that monstr having better highs (although he has some weird stuff) is good. I think this is the way I'm leaning right now.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Cory, that feeling is how I feel about WN today and Monstr to a lesser extent

I have probably shouldn't influence me but still do influence me reasons for being pensive on Monstr.

BUT I'm also aware that the last time this happened to me he was a wolf on DM and I miscleared him for emotional reasons.

Part of why I want a strong counter wagon to Monstr is that he's almost certainly being bused today if he's a wolf; apart from me nobody has stepped up for hi today. And Idk who that would be so its worrisome enough for me to think my hunch is right that he's just a villager led mislynch.

Idk you do what you think is right. But I bet you almost anything if Monstr is s wolf he's vanilla or otherwise useless now and Merk is a still useful PR.

Seems legit.

I don't particularly understand why either of these guys should be risking any skin trying to save a wolfy vanilla wolf who had given up defending himself. Monstr flipping doesn't even look good for Merk, so he should be seen as a viable lynch the following day. But if they get him on d4, they'll look bad for trying to push him here.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
I thought this vote was wolfy just construction wise: vote followed by line of text that's not about the vote. Even if the next sentence says something vague about the vote

But I'm reading merk_sa now and I think in the context of his other reads and pushes this is even more wolfy

Merk_sa started out the game with this super hard push on murksa, whom he'd never played with before. Then he voted athexx sponging a thingy case. then he got into it with traz. His wolf reads have tended to follow that sort of pattern of picking something out and hammering it. There was a TTT case at some point also.

Yet he arrived at his vote on me in this game day after I was a wagon based on a "gut read" and he hasn't pushed it at all. It feels to me that the early aggression was fake (and his insta-pivots seem fake) and now he can just lay a vote on me without raising any eyebrows and essentially peace out. If he was a villager and the aggressive style was genuine you'd expect there'd be more of that.

Like, WN busses the wolf vig, then goes out of his way to save non-posting, having given up Monstr?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Like, I almost was lynched inn Game 3 because you were exploiting the forum's online mechanic that I didn't even know about. Don't you think I would have shut that off in this game if I was scum and lurking?

Was lurking.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I think monstr is town but he's not me monstrman

Monstr at seven.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
little early for self-pres isn't it? I guess maybe not given the wagons :P

If you could pick an entirely new wagon who are you doing with? Earlier when you voted me you also presupposed you couldn't venture outside like 3 people. I want to know who you would lynch if you could lynch literally anybody

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I have a case on dbmurph based on his slight nod to yamato being scum in passing. It's literally the only compelling case that's been made about someone talking about a flipped scum in this game. The one response I got to it I believe was 'yeah, but that doesn't mean he's scum' I'm pretty sure.

I have a pretty strong gut read on Thingyman being scum for spending way more time trying to make friends than find scum. The response was 'yeah, he does that as scum or town though dude'. Cool.

I had a case on TTT (that I've kind of backed away from with his big 'yamato is town post') that got terrible responses.

I have a gut read on saberwolf now. I didn't bother researching a case.

That's probably it.

He fully backed away from the Tom case, not "kind of".

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Oh, I also would vote well named based on a gut read.

Right-o.

With about an hour to go, Tom and WN move to Monstr and that's all she wrote for wagoning.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
lol ten votes

Merk outed himself when he was posting earlier

Kill both

This is such a weird post for a wolf to make about a villager when a wolf bro is number one.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 09:59

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Last bit

The Life and Times of Merk - Day Four

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Arcbell
Crunkus
dbmurph22
Dwetzel
Gamer Dude
lenC
Luckbox Inc
merk_sa
saberwolf13
tappokone
The Moocher
Thingyman
Top Tier Tom
traz
well named

Let's lynch Merk today, then there's a wolf between Luck and Traz, likely Luck; we judge WN on the continued veracity of his posting and my dark horse wolves are Saber and Thingy

Tom opens with a Merk vote and a wolf lean, but it's not really a theme in his posting.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
dbmurph

Why would you Jail anyone other than cory after his claim yesterday and hard push on monstrman?

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
You are amazing

Like if this is a purposeful troll I want you to know its a ****ing hilarious one and I owe you post game cookies

(Cookies are the troll toll)

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I'll look at monstrman today to see who I'm going to vote. I had initially thought monstrman was town, then saw a random off comment on yamato that I asked him about, but I still thought he was town after his explanation. I'm probably getting lynched today, but I'll see what I can at least find before that.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I am going to vote dbmurph for his offhand yamato comment though that I mentioned yesterday: dbmurph

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Looking before I leave for work, this post is probably where I'll start reviewing today.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Does murph ever even mention monstr before that post? Where is his 'still scummy read' coming from?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This is the only interaction between dbmurph and monstr before that 'still reading scummy to me' thing from dbmurph. This ends with dbmurph seemingly saying that he is neutral on monstr after the exchange.

Also of note is that this is another time reading through a part of the thread where I see TTT defending flipped scum, the first being that big yamato post.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
dbmurph, where did this read come from? Your work in thread shows nowhere that would let you say that monstrman 'still reads like a wolf'.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I think I'm back on a gut level to reading TTT as scum. That yamato post now looks scummy with how TTT interacted with monstrman I just saw. TTT may defend scum as scum, and that means my initial case would still be valid.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
That is, it's a really big post by TTT to say someone is town when yamato had barely any content. If he's town, why did he even make that post?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Ok, I'm off to work. Before slamming down 'lynch merk immediately' please look at that dbmurph stuff I just quoted. I think dbmurph made up a monstrman read in thread. dbmurph did the same thing with a yamato read in thread.

When I have a chance to sit down again, I'll put them together. Actually, maybe I can do that quickly with search...

There's some Tom stuff, but the actual push is on Murph. And it's fairly horrible.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
dbmurph on yamato:

There is no work whatsoever for this read.

After yamato's flip:

Trying to take credit for a scum flip that he had no part in at all besides that off the cuff comment.

dbmurph on monstrman:

There is no work at all from dbmurph on either his yamato or monstrman reads. He does not push either candidate. He does not explain his read on either candidate.

After yamato flips scum, dbmurph tries to take credit for that scum flip.

Murph was trying to take credit for Yamato's mod-kill, apparently. I criticized this post elsewhere at length. It shouldn't be difficult to see that it's no good.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
My immediate impression is that this is too astute for someone who has been lost as **** all game and means Merk is distancing from Murph and his case looks plausible because he knows it's correct

I've caught wolves for being too correct or too sure on fellow wolves before, like over explaining it or pointing out wolfy behavior that nobody else really noticed and touting it as a lock

Just a bizarre post. It wasn't astute at all.

I get the impression that if Merk is a wolf, the wolves expected him to die soon-ish at this point.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
This is literally monstrman's only mention of dbmurph in the entire game.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I have a negative gut read on saberwolf that I haven't tried to make in a case yet. That said, I don't understand this case.

What do you think of the dbmurph case re: monstrman, yamato?

What has saberwolf said about monstrman and yamato? I will probably start there if I'm going to ferret out this gut read.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
DreamBigMurph: what do you think of my case and vote on you? Can you explain your monstrman and yamato comments that I pointed out?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Why are people voting me again?

The DreamBigMurph case is literally the best case made today. If you're not voting with that case, please put forth a better case.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
To put it bluntly again for those that didn't see it:

DreamBigMurph in random passing said he had scum reads on both yamato and monstrman that he: 1) never explained; 2) had no work to show for it; and 3) completely ****ing made up as obvious distancing now that we've seen yamato and monstrman flip.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I'd vote TTT, but I think this DreamBigMurph case is a lock. TTT has some of the same stuff (albeit the opposite) with the flipped scum where he lightly defends both monstrman and yamato, but he also has a huge yamato defense post that I still can't wrap my head around.

To add on to the DreamBig case (which I just remembered), after yamato flipped scum DreamBig comes into the thread all 'yeah well we all knew yamato was scum guys' - trying to take credit for his ****ty distancing the day before.

This is a case that will net a scum lynch. It's an obvious scum lynch based on interactions with flipped scum.

He's herp-a-derping pretty hard here.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
TTT

Fine. DreamBig needs to be lynched tomorrow or vigged tonight then. I am more confident in this read than anything else I've done in this game (even when I said the exact same thing on day 2 about TTT).
Ridiculous.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I made a great case on TTT on day 2. He tried misrepresenting that case to discredit me publicly in the thread. After yamato flipped scum, I went back and saw TTT had a huge defense post of yamato which I initially thought to be townie because I couldn't understand why scum would make that post. However, after monstrman flipped scum, I went back and saw that TTT had some defense posts of monstrman. I think TTT playing a defend scum buddies game seems like a reasonable explanation for the yamato post and the monstrman content.

I made an amazing case on DreamBigMurph today. Please read it. It is literally the best case made in this thread on actual content, nothing to do with meta that people can't follow.

I have a gut read on well named - nothing more, probably would not vote him unless it was me vs. him.

traz is completely worthless this game. I think he's scummy from my day 1 case, but his completely worthlessness might be because he's bored town. I'm not real sure of him anymore.

Thingyman is still doing that thing where he's trying to make friends and influence through personal relationships in thread rather than find scum.

I have a gut read on saberwolf that I haven't gone back to investigate. I may do that today.

That's about all I got. I'm probably voting TTT through deadline unless DreamBig gets to be a possibility.

Funny that he should say Traz is completely worthless this game, given that Traz had at least at some point in the game wolf leans on several other people Merk lists - Tom and Thingy, at the very least.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
OK EVERYONE

IT IS THANKSGIVING

IF WE LYNCH DREAMBIGMURPH TODAY AND HE FLIPS TOWN

I WILL DONATE $50 TO THE DREAM BIG FOUNDATION IN NEW YORK CITY FOR BOXED THANKSGIVING DINNERS: http://www.nycservice.org/organizati...php?org_id=436

Given that the read sucks, this sort of a promise is more likely to come from a wolf, who has an in-built reason for backing down.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I felt the Tom lynch undercurrent building ITT but I never thought that Moocher, Tappo and Gamer would light the fire. Good chance one is a wolf riding on the others. Murph feels opportunistic here. Can't disagree with what Merk said about his lack of development on the dead wolves and I don't know why he's calling me a wolf today.

Complains about people voting him, but Merk is also voting him.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
already done!

What you really mean is "do whatever random thing it is I've decided you're supposed to do". This is how werewolf is played :P

I'm kind of at a loss right now. I think some of saberwolf's posts since yesterday seem kind of villagery, and I think what merk_sa is doing right now seems villagery, so I'm like eh? I don't feel like I have a very good grasp on this game at all

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
Merk reads genuine on this page. Without him as a wolf I think I've been way off about some pivotal axis in this game and need to figure out what it is; who I've been misclearing.

Uh huh.

quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
It matches my internal perception of Murph as meticulous and well reasoned... something lacking here. His progression on those two was bad, his progression on Phel was a partial sponge of Athexx, his progression on Athexx at EOD3 was abysmal and his progression of me now feels like it's pulled out of thin air.

So yeah, let's lynch him.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
TTT, I'm going back to voting you if DreamBig is not viable.

Shortly afterward Tom claims.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
He looks like the role we had in game 3, where some scum dude got a kill after his scum buddy with a kill died.

The kill was Athexx. Any villager who thought about that kill at all should have concluded that it was a highly likely village vig kill. So when someone claims that highly likely village vig kill, it's somewhat unnatural to assume that the claimant is probably a wolf.

Merk jumps to Murph briefly, then goes back to Tom when Gamer claims the kill.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
I was going to ask why TTT chose to kill Athexx over me if he was just going to come out of the gate voting me the next day. However, I couldn't figure out why the scum would kill Athexx at all because that seemed like a good lynch to go for today for them, so if TTT actually killed Athexx that seemed townie. With the CC, though, welp.

Then he moves to reminding people that Tom voted for him. Consider that Tom couldn't come out of the gate voting for Athexx because Athexx was dead.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Gamer Dude, if TTT actually flips scum, look at my exceptional d2 case on him that was ignored by everyone. Now, look at my exceptional d3 case on DreamBig that is getting ignored by everyone (with TTT I guess distancing). Please follow my case and kill DreamBig. Please.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
If TTT flips scum, I feel like the timing and the 'this **** is obviously going to get CC'd' nature of the claim means that the scum team gave up on saving TTT very early in the day. That is, I think some scum was probably already on the TTT vote when that claim came down and they are using TTT's claim to: 1) identify the vig; and 2) make whomever was on TTT prior to the claim look townie.

I don't know who that person is yet and won't bother looking until TTT actually flips, but it's worth noting in case I die.

Did he ever bother to look for it? I can't remember (and haven't gotten to day five at the time of writing).

Why on earth would he die?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
If TTT was telling the truth, he would've said this immediately.

This is in response to me noting that two people might have conceivably shot Athexx. I don't understand Merk's logic.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
If you read his content, his strongest scum read was not on Athexx, it was on me. You can see that jump off the page if you read TTT, especially the near EOD stuff.

A lot of this posting seems to be about just reminding people that Tom had him as a wolf.

Tom made some strong statements about Merk the previous day, but he also tried to start an Athexx wagon and advocated for an Athexx vig shot.

I find it suspicious that Tom's wolf read on Merk spiked in strength at a time when Merk wasn't getting lynched, then subsided when a Merk lynch should look possible.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Are you a POG dude? What do you think about traz being worthless? Do you think he'd be worthless as scum in this game with his reputation?

I made that leap but have no basis for it.

quote:

Originally Posted by well named
traz isn't really known for his wolf game

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
Thanks, I'll retract my conclusion then.

Weird exchange. Merk doesn't care about people's meta, except here he does. And why would you assume that a guy with a high reputation is likely to be bored town in the first place?

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
To be clear, I think your cop out is the easiest explanation in the world for scum to vote a town in an attempt to save their scum buddy. It gives you this exact statement to make the next day to lessen your culpability in trying to save your scum buddy from getting lynched.

quote:

Originally Posted by merk_sa
TTT
saberwolf
DreamBigMurph
well named?

Good game, everyone.

One thing I don't understand is why he'd bother to push peeked villagers. I guess he can't flip on Murph too quickly and if he has something to say about Saber, then that's content.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 10:13

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Holy crap that "case" was so infuriating. However it does make me think merk is town, there was a bunch of stuff from the scum I'd forgotten about that looks pretty clearly to me like they were setting merk up.

# ? Dec 4, 2014 10:14

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

quote:

tappokone said:

quote:
Originally Posted by Arcbell
Things I've done pertaining to the game in the past ~20 hours:

...

Started doing a case on merk_sa, but ended up with too much ambiguous to be worthwhile, and scrapped it.

quote:
Originally Posted by Arcbell
I'm gonna throw my vote up on merk_sa just because he's the only person in these bws I had a real fos on at any point in the game.
This makes it something like WN 4, Monstr 4, Merk 4. I'm on Merk and it should be pretty easy to see I'm not staying there, though. WN and Tom can go on Monstr at any time.

Yes, because when the top 2 "wagons" are both scum of course scum Arcbell will vote Merk to make it 3 viable scum options for the lynch and not, I dunno, vote a townie instead.

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

# ? Dec 4, 2014 10:19

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

quote:

tappokone said:

quote:
Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom
I get you. I like Monstr / Merk wagons for this reason. I don't wanna detail the Monstr wagon because I see merit there but as time goes on I'm only getting more comfortable about lynching Merk.

I don't understand why anyone has him as villagery, particularly in the last 72 hours.
Monstr at five, WN at four, Merk at four.

Scum TTT trying to get scum WN dropped as a wagon, so that people are only voting for scum Monstr or ~~town~~ scum Merk.

Like how unbelievably stupid is tappokone?

# ? Dec 4, 2014 10:24

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

quote:

Crunkus said:

quote:
Originally Posted by merk_sa
Crunkus, who do you think is scum right now and why?
My read is thingy. I am attempting to approach today with an open mind and explore other possibilities. I am hoping people will help me with that.

Instead, I post, and people continue to berate me. I have continued to try to keep a stiff upper lip and do my best anyway. Keep reading this.

Thingyman, I will be personally not recommending participation in this experience from members of my subforum again. It is astounding how this group treats people that differ from them and it's been a consistent **** show of cowardly jabs like this.

It was a nice idea. But you have way too much participation from a group that plays with each other frequently enough to render the game unplayable to outsiders with any kind of opinions that they dare express that contradict what you're used to.

I'm kind of done for now.

I'm so ****ing tired of reading this thread and weaving through responses like that.

Merk go **** yourself. Is this the persuasive nature you spoke of in your bio? Or are you just employing a strategy because you like to mix it up?

I was going to spend more time on this.

It doesn't deserve my time. Lynch me. Then lynch the wolf tomorrow or lose. I really don't care to talk to close minded pricks anymore.

This game did not need to be this way, and you guys have shown absolutely no compunctions about continuing to add bad on bad every chance you have received.

Thingy is the wolf. He has let it happen, and I believe personally this is horrifying to him because he has a lot invested in this series of games. I imagine he would like he did in game 3, do everything he could to prevent it.

He hasn't.

You cleared the wrong guy Dwetz. If you want to say "he earned it" fine, but you cleared him days and days ago and have refused to look at it remotely critically since. That's not analytical, that's bad play. If I'm an ******* for saying it in your view...I'm sorry. But it's true.

Mooch, I have no real complaints. We haven't interacted much, and I have spent more time reacting to the people who do. Most of that has been negative because most of the people that interact with me have been very negative. I have been critical of people's ideas and that has come off as being a preacher or stupid. you know what...I respected all of you enough and figured you respected this game and this tournament enough to be able to handle this better than a bunch of kids at lunchtime.

I was wrong, clearly.

The same people telling me I will so obviously make the wrong call in a F3 that they don't even need to think about who the wolf today have wasted days talking about nothing else really but how pointless I am.

It's just ridiculous.

I have made a remarkable effort that I am proud of in the face of unacceptable behaviour and other people just staying the hell away from it to stay nonconfrontational. If you guys are so hell bent on being negative that you can't for a second recognize that (thingy did, then went back to agreeing that I'm pointless, because he's the wolf and is lying and trying to have it as many ways as he can) then so be it.

I know. Don't let the door hit me on the way out.

It's your showcase guys. I'm just showing how people from other websites who are thinking about jumping into this BGG POG show on the next go round can expect to be treated.

I have tried so many times to resolve this. I have put so much effort into satisfying you guys...and you simply don't recognize anything you aren't used to or that comes in a different package.

It's common enough on the internet.

But I'm kind of done with this.

Thingyman

You guys say I need to have this big open minded discussion, and then you come in and bold face me from the outset for **** like that diplomacy argument and something that boils down to me being a moron.

Your words effect other people and how they react. There are productive ways to deal with difference and then there is this ****storm.

I have been talked to like I am the one berating anything different from me.

That's such crap.

If you read every other post saying the things that are said about me...you wouldn't still be in this game.

But most of you don't have that problem because your respect came with you from people before you entered the game.

To players thinking about getting involved in this "tournament of champions" from elsewhere....think again.

Unless there are a massive number of outsiders...or thingy is playing and is town...this is the attitude that will dominate when the game is rigged with a bunch of people that know each other.

Must suck having someone you keep kicking over and over again actually complain.

Tough ****. I'm tired of it.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:32

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

For anyone else reading the game, who do you think is the last scum? I think it must be dwetzel, but I'll be more confident after the NK.

If both dwetzel and thingyman are in the final 3 then it's definitely one of them. If the scum is anyone else they will NK one of those 2 as they can't afford to have both of them bromancing together in the final 3.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:35

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

I think it's Thingyman based on earlier reads but I've probably over three thousand posts to catch up on.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:37

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

I haven't gone back to re-read anything (and not will I )

Merk just quoted chapter 1 of the great gatsby in game.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:43

EXAKT Science: Aug 14, 2012; 8 on the Kinsey scale

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I haven't gone back to re-read anything (and not will I )

Merk just quoted chapter 1 of the great gatsby in game.

can you PLEASE link to this post?

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:45

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Read from here onwards. Merk is in fine form.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/ultimate-game-mafia-champions-game-thread-1489540/index758.html

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:51

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Cool under pressure

quote:

Thingyman said:

quote:
Originally Posted by Crunkus
you voted me before I entered the thread thingy on a diplomacy read you waited for a townie to make so you could, thingy.

I DIDN'T VOTE YOU ON A DIPLOMACY READ?!?!?!?

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!

quote:

Thingyman said:
PEOPLE VOTE EACH OTHER ALL THE drat TIME

I ALSO VOTED MOOCHER

DID MOOCHER SUDDENLY STOP TALKING WITH ME?

# ? Dec 5, 2014 00:58

apostateCourier: Oct 9, 2012

I'm going to laugh if it turns out that merk is scum.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:01

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

apostateCourier posted:

I'm going to laugh if it turns out that merk is scum.

I would be very surprised

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:02

Ernie.: Aug 31, 2012

apostateCourier posted:

I'm going to laugh if it turns out that merk is scum.

I want this to happen so bad.

But my gut tells me it's Thingy. The last scum (if there's only one left) is playing a survival game. Moocher is openly trolling the game. DWetzel is an emotional mess. Thingy is the only one who still sounds extremely fake as poo poo.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:04

apostateCourier: Oct 9, 2012

anime gently caress pillow posted:

I would be very surprised

I'm not so sure.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:04

apostateCourier: Oct 9, 2012

Ernie. posted:

I want this to happen so bad.

But my gut tells me it's Thingy. The last scum (if there's only one left) is playing a survival game. Moocher is openly trolling the game. DWetzel is an emotional mess. Thingy is the only one who still sounds extremely fake as poo poo.

Thingy always sounds fake as poo poo, because his head is shoved firmly up his own rear end.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:05

Dr. Hurt: Oct 23, 2010

DWetzel posted:

god, seriously, **** you

this **** is exactly why I'm going to probably never play this bull**** game again after this is over

I love that this game is breaking everybody.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:12

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

anime gently caress pillow posted:

I would be very surprised

Ditto. The flipped scum were pushing him hard as a lynch option all game.

What I think is going to happen is a merk/thingy/dwetzel final 3 with the scum winning because thingy/dwetzel are, as moocher put it, "cupping each other's balls".

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:12

Ernie.: Aug 31, 2012

Thingyman posted:

And YOU better be a wolf for this

poo poo, man, well with threats like that.......

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:19

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Ernie. posted:

poo poo, man, well with threats like that.......

He's going to make the guy he's voting be scum through sheer force of will.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:22

Ernie.: Aug 31, 2012

Crunkus posted:

hold up...whichever twin doesn't go to merk right now is scum....or am I hallucinating?

This post is literally "whichever person doesn't vote X right now is scum" - do they understand why people vote in Mafia?

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:24

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Ernie. posted:

This post is literally "whichever person doesn't vote X right now is scum" - do they understand why people vote in Mafia?

Yes. They vote whenever someone disagrees with them or yells at them.

Why, how do you play mafia?

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:27

Ernie.: Aug 31, 2012

merk is on a plane
dwetz has locked his vote on crunkus
crunkus has locked his vote on dwetz

It is up to Thingyman (the scum) (it is fairly obvious just read the way he's playing compared to everyone else) and The_Moocher to decide who gets puppy cuddled.

Good job, champions.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:32

Ernie.: Aug 31, 2012

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Yes. They vote whenever someone disagrees with them or yells at them.

Why, how do you play mafia?

I spew wolfy

wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy wolfy

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:32

Antivehicular: Dec 30, 2011; I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

I just skimmed the massive effort-argument against Merk, so maybe I missed some brilliant clue that would make this make sense, but I still can't wrap my head around the majesty of "known scum have been leaning on this guy all game and making cases against him, he MUST be the last scum! WOLFY WOLFY WOLFY WOLFY WOLFY!!"

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:49

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

You have to be a mafia CHAMPION to really get it.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 01:56

fiery_valkyrie: Mar 26, 2003; I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Holy poo poo

quote:

Crunkus, you are a vanilla Mafia and you win the game by achieving parity with Town.

# ? Dec 5, 2014 02:04

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 19, 2024 05:33

Ernie.: Aug 31, 2012

haha, really?

# ? Dec 5, 2014 02:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > 2+2 Mafia Championships: Forget It Merk, It's Thingyman

«‹›13 »