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Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum

:swoon:
That is exactly what I want for putting around the sound, but my norwegian ancestors demand it have a Sabb G10 engine.

I really miss living on boats and being on the water.

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Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
Not only moorage but also maintenance go up exponentially with size; rigging and hardware for a 30 foot boat will be a tenth the cost of the same on a 60 foot boat. If you want to have family or guests aboard a center cockpit layout gives some private space at the stern which is also the most comfortable area to ride in weather. I think I would be really happy with a 35' Catamaran but I am still getting used to the aesthetics. Living in the Northwest it is really nice to have a pilothouse design too, the first few hours of sitting out in the drizzle at the helm are invigorating but the next 500 would be torturous.

right now some of my favorite designs are:
Fisher 25

Lord Nelson Victory Tug

and a bunch of Michael Kasten's Designs, like this one

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum

I really like what the new SWATH and fast cat designs have done in regards to broadening the performance envelope but god do they look ugly to me.

Like a modern yacht sitting in a dry-dock.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
Oh wow, seeing all the pictures of the bow before I assumed it was a planing hull with an outdrive, but it turns out to be a cute and economical double-ender. Color me happily surprised.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum

Popete posted:

Can anyone recommend me some basic resources on sail boat ownership? I've been sailing for about a year now (dingy and keel), a lot of time out on the water this year racing on a 30 ft Frers twice a week. I'm taking a keelboat refresher course in July on a J22 the size of boat I am hoping to buy next year. I've been looking on Craigslist at boats for sale and it seems like you can get a decent sized boat for $5000 - $10000 which seems like a steal to me. But I'm curious what to look out for and what the hidden costs of ownership are. Last thing I wanna do is buy a boat and go broke maintaining and repairing it cause I didn't know what to look for.

There are countless blogs, sailboat owners are super vocal and tend to keep logs on maintenance and costs. My favorite sites are boatdesign.net and woodenboat.com.

Storage is going to be the biggest expense unless it is on a trailer and you own a long driveway or lots of property. Where about do you live? Around here moorage is over $10/ft/month so my old 35 was costing me over $4000 a year just to sit and grow algae and a storage yard landside is still over $100/m and means an extra trip just to pick up the boat before launching it and then again at the end of the day.

Since you are looking at J/22's I assume you want to day trip and race occasionally, maybe take the rare overnight cruise in protected waters? Since it is a one design class, just buy whatever has the most hand laid glass and the least rot-able core material. Sails will probably be your biggest expense.

However if you are just looking for something in that size range and want get about instead of go in circles I'd steer away from racers since you can always find a place crewing and look for a pocket cruiser with a little outboard.

Don't buy a wood or metal boat unless you are in as a passion, they are literally 10 times the work to maintain and it better be on a trailer because basically no marina will take a wood boat without a huge expensive insurance policy.

I guess the biggest questions before I can tell you what it will cost are where are you using it and what do you want to do with it?

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum

TheFluff posted:

As far as boat class choices go, if you had been in northern Europe I'd have recommended an IF-boat - it's cheap, it sleeps four people (although two of them need to be sorta small and/or pretty good friends - bring a tent), seats five if you need to, can be handled solo and is an excellent beginner sailboat while still having a lot of room to grow (people have crossed the Atlantic in it) - but I don't know if such creatures exist in Lake Michigan.

They pop up here in the NorthWest occasionally so I would assume there are a few on the Great Lakes.

And outboards are great, especially 4-strokes. Way easier to work on and good parts availability. Some in the 10hp range even do come with an alternator but it's a rarity. If you do look at inboards remember that volvo md1's are getting old and hard to find parts for. Yanmars are common and cheap and beta marine is just a marinized kubota engine so that's are good.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum

Negromancer posted:

I was more thinking that rotary's are small enough you could keep at least 1 spare motor on board without cutting into the storage space too much.

Realistically, I am more looking at something like a Starcraft like this. gently caress the maintenance on wood boats and fiberglass scares me since the problems are hidden. I would prefer a steel boat, but aluminum makes more sense for that size/class of boat. The biggest downside to that particular boat is that I would prefer an outboard.

Fiberglass is great as long as it is just glass and nicely thick or a modern foam composite that doesn't rot.

I'll go halvsies with you on one of these:
Turbocharged 6v92 pushes it to around 30 knots in the worst conditions imaginable and returns <2nmpg :perfect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30%27_surf_rescue_boat

http://olympic.craigslist.org/boa/5724071528.html

Also interested in something like this that isn't a stripped hull. I think with all the net gear removed and the forward most tanks converted for fuel 15 knots would be economical on a fuel injected Volvo B20.

http://olympic.craigslist.org/boa/5712708641.html

Why do I only love broken garbage boats?

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
That's funny, I was just looking at it's sister ship on yachtworld yesterday.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1942/Mckinzie-Barge-Tug-3071668/Seattle/WA/United-States

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
Bernese are the best boat dogs. They love to swim but are happy to mostly curl up under a table and act as a space heater.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
It can be a great lifestyle if you have a passion for if, but if it is just to save money you most likely won't be saving all that much.

Condo HOA dues are probably around $350 a month which is about what mooring a boat that size in a metropolitan area will cost before live-aboard fees. If the boat is $50,000 and the condo is $150,000 and the remaining $100,000 can be financed for 30 years for $473 per month that gives you about $6k per year for boat maintenance which sound about right on if the work is hired out.

Sounds more or less like a wash to me.

A 30-35 sailboat is going beyond snug into tiny house territory and will probably have headroom issues if you are 6' or more. Power boats in that size can be pretty ok but something decent like a nordic tug or a sundowner will probably be closer to $90,000 unless.

This is all assuming that you are a regular 9-5 shmo with not a lot of free time. If you have tons of spare time and are handy you could absolutely live super cheap farther out of town on a cheaper boat and do the maintenance yourself.

As for the climate, I personally love living onboard in the winter, small places are cozy and easy to heat. The sweltering summer would drive me nuts though. I can't imagine trying to find a place for even the smallest a/c unit on a 30' sailboat and the noise in such a small space would be unpleasant.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
Wish I was in a better situation for a project now cause it looks like there are about to be a lot of cheap, insurance write off cats coming on the market. I'd love to get a hull to convert into a minimalist power cruiser.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
pfff. Been there done that I want to go... deeper. :getin:

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Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
The nice thing about high vis power tools is you can see them on the bottom for a week or so reminding you to use a lanyard next time.

As for the pin this may be obvious but I'd use a c-clamp and the punch to put some load on it, then put a wet rag under the tiller hinge to absorb some heat and hit the top of the shaft with a torch. A steel pin in a stainless shaft is going to be a bastard. Probably worth finding a stainless pin for reassembly if possible.

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