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Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

we have good threads for software things but we don't have anywhere for hardware really so now we do

i know we got a lotta electrical engineers itf so lets talk about hardware

i mostly do like digital design and low-power microcontroller poo poo like msp430s n whatever

okay so the question that prompted this thread is like so usually when i wanna get bytes out of a computer into a thing i use like an ftdi usb-uart or similar. but what if i want to get data in/out faster?? how do i do like real usb or ethernet as painlessly as possible??

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A Wheezy Steampunk
Jul 16, 2006

High School Grads Eligible!
uart able to!!!

maniacdevnull
Apr 18, 2007

FOUR CUBIC FRAMES
DISPROVES SOFT G GOD
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

just wanted to pop in and remind everyone of the obvious and unquestionable truth of avr supremacy

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

avr supremacy is legit especially if you use xmegas, xmegas are dope

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Bloody posted:

we have good threads for software things but we don't have anywhere for hardware really so now we do

i know we got a lotta electrical engineers itf so lets talk about hardware

i mostly do like digital design and low-power microcontroller poo poo like msp430s n whatever

okay so the question that prompted this thread is like so usually when i wanna get bytes out of a computer into a thing i use like an ftdi usb-uart or similar. but what if i want to get data in/out faster?? how do i do like real usb or ethernet as painlessly as possible??

pcie

fpgas have hard ip for it and it's fast as hell

otherwise for usb, find a mcu that has a decent (lol) usb peripheral or get a ulpi usb xcvr and strap that to a fpga

ftdis are probably the most decent option, they have tons of poo poo they can do in silicon -- the ft2232 can do a ton of stuff with its mpsse (i2c, spi, jtag, etc)

movax
Aug 30, 2008

also avrs suck hth

Tin Gang
Sep 27, 2007

Tin Gang posted:

showering has no effect on germs and is terrible for your skin. there is no good reason to do it

maniacdevnull posted:

just wanted to pop in and remind everyone of the obvious and unquestionable truth of avr supremacy

please go into detail because I was raised on PICs and know nothing else

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

movax posted:

also avrs suck hth

atmegas suck but xmegas are like lower-power more featured msp430s

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

pcie sounds cool as hell but hard like how the hell do i write a pcie driver or whatever on the pc side??

Moo Cowabunga
Jun 15, 2009

[Office Worker.




:gas:

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

Bloody posted:

atmegas suck but xmegas are like lower-power more featured msp430s

although some of the m0 and m3 silicon people are pumping out these days are just mind-bogglingly efficient

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Bloody posted:

atmegas suck but xmegas are like lower-power more featured msp430s

personally i would de-feature msp430s out of existence, i hate the loving things (mostly the fram family) and documentation


Bloody posted:

pcie sounds cool as hell but hard like how the hell do i write a pcie driver or whatever on the pc side??

on linux or windows? linux pci subsystem isn't half bad, you can write a simple driver in a couple of minutes that'll say hello world upon detecting your device and expose bar0 via an ioctl for you to blink leds at 8Gb/s

movax
Aug 30, 2008

the only thing i'll really give the msp430 fram series is their power draw of like 1.2mA @ 10MHz at 3.3V, without trying to do any lpm poo poo

EIDE Van Hagar
Dec 8, 2000

Beep Boop
i do computer hardware things but i don't write drivers and i want to learn more about it.

maniacdevnull
Apr 18, 2007

FOUR CUBIC FRAMES
DISPROVES SOFT G GOD
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

Tin Gang posted:

please go into detail because I was raised on PICs and know nothing else

as a hobbyist, avr just has a better toolset. winavr is a great c compiler and toolchain, and that's what i started on. also, because avrs are what's inside arduinos, there are a ton of code examples and people selling cheap avr programmers, and if you want you can even get the arduino ide to talk to a bare avr if you have a programmer. and you can get a nice isp programmer for avrs on the cheap, or if you really want to cheap out you can make one out of a parallel port and a few resistors

ive never done pic stuff, so no idea how it compares, i just like avrs because it's what i know

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

also atmel studio owns because it is visual studio

no iar or keil crap

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?
PCI driver in Linux is pretty easy to write. the problem with pcie is that it's difficult to debug the physical layer unless you have very good tools.

I2S is actually a super easy way to move a lot of data and you can get parts with pretty fast I2S channels. if your signal rate is higher, for higher rates usb is probably your best bet.

pram
Jun 10, 2001
video
vlc
color
flux
advertisements
1080p
4k
color temperature
ads
moving pictures
sony
amiga

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

The Management posted:

PCI driver in Linux is pretty easy to write. the problem with pcie is that it's difficult to debug the physical layer unless you have very good tools.

I2S is actually a super easy way to move a lot of data and you can get parts with pretty fast I2S channels. if your signal rate is higher, for higher rates usb is probably your best bet.

yea debugging sounds stressful. i only really need like 10s of mbits per second so idk pcie feels overkill for that

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Bloody posted:

yea debugging sounds stressful. i only really need like 10s of mbits per second so idk pcie feels overkill for that

physical layer you need a very expensive oscilloscope generally to confirm / track down SI issues

luckily, the channel is mostly built for you on a given motherboard -- if you're building an add-in card, don't gently caress up your short traces to the edge connector, match impedance and you're generally good

10s of mbits, either usb or ethernet i guess. probably usb.

or spi

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

how do i spi from a pc :aaaaa:

i guess like ftdi modules have spi up to like 30mbits does that count

Illusive Fuck Man
Jul 5, 2004
RIP John McCain feel better xoxo 💋 🙏
Taco Defender
one time i soldered an atx 24 pin molex to a PCIE socket to try and power a piece of hardware without needing to shove it in a case. it didnt work.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Bloody posted:

how do i spi from a pc :aaaaa:

i guess like ftdi modules have spi up to like 30mbits does that count

modern intel chipsets have a spi controller on them; no idea if you can do dma and such with them, but they exist. unfortunately, they're usually attached to the spi memory that holds your bios, so uh, i wouldn't use that. pretty sure the embedded chipsets though (for like industrial atom) have available spi controllers

yeah, you could do a ftdi part for spi, but at that point you may want to just make your device itself the usb endpoint. basically comes down to, integrate usb into your hardware, or interface with an external usb<->* bridge like the ftdi that could give you parallel, spi, etc

Illusive gently caress Man posted:

one time i soldered an atx 24 pin molex to a PCIE socket to try and power a piece of hardware without needing to shove it in a case. it didnt work.

oops


Bloody posted:

also atmel studio owns because it is visual studio

no iar or keil crap

i'll give you that, visual studio owns bones

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

movax posted:

modern intel chipsets have a spi controller on them; no idea if you can do dma and such with them, but they exist. unfortunately, they're usually attached to the spi memory that holds your bios, so uh, i wouldn't use that.

:v:

Olivil
Jul 15, 2010

Wow I'd like to be as smart as a computer
hardware is the best ware

also get a cheap used analog oscilloscope and learn to fix it and how it works its a p cool project and in the end you get a p good scope for <50$

Tin Gang
Sep 27, 2007

Tin Gang posted:

showering has no effect on germs and is terrible for your skin. there is no good reason to do it
the only programming languages i have ever been half-way competent at are python and pic assembly. nothing inbetween

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

i would like it very much if xmegas came in DIP packages because i am still an idiot babby who hasn't bothered to spend 10 dollars on a handful of QFP breakouts and i don't know why i'm not ordering some right now ffs all the cool chips only come surface-mount these days anyway

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Nov 25, 2014

movax
Aug 30, 2008

proto-advantage will not only sell you a breakout board, you can tell them what chip you want and they will assemble it for you

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

surface mount is seriously easy to solder by hand if you have liquid flux and if you dont have liquid flux just get the gently caress out

Asymmetric POSTer
Aug 17, 2005

hey bloody i jutst wanted to pop into say that for a party im going to i'm doing apple cider + fireball like this inspired by you

also this thread makes me realize im pretty dumb

thank you blooduy

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

mishaq posted:

hey bloody i jutst wanted to pop into say that for a party im going to i'm doing apple cider + fireball like this inspired by you

also this thread makes me realize im pretty dumb

thank you blooduy

good poo poo

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

yeah it's nothing about soldering it by hand it's that i literally have been too lazy to get the breakouts because i have a bunch of DIP attinys sitting around and tbh i kinda like making dead-bug circuits

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Sagebrush posted:

yeah it's nothing about soldering it by hand it's that i literally have been too lazy to get the breakouts because i have a bunch of DIP attinys sitting around and tbh i kinda like making dead-bug circuits

the only good bug is a dead bug

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?
I'm doing my part!

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=
sometimes i want to do more hardware stuff then i realise that i'd have to janitor bits and change my mind

Fax Sender
Aug 11, 2013

kiss my ass
the only bits youll be janitoring is bits of puke and maybe poo while working for your local public school system

Fax Sender
Aug 11, 2013

kiss my ass
that was directed at moo cow because i did not appreciate his post in this thread

GameCube
Nov 21, 2006

lol when hobbyists roll in and tell you "avr supremacy" just because that's what arduinos use

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Fax Sender
Aug 11, 2013

kiss my ass
i have an arduino

it sits in a box and does nothing right now

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