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i find it impossible to care since at worst this is akin to a remix sure, dave should attribute but the people that say he's "stealing" material when the appeal of the podcast is dave and gary's dynamic and reaction to the story being told is, well, silly
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Jul 9, 2015 21:09
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Toxxupation posted:sure, dave should attribute Period. This is not defensible Toxx.
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Jul 9, 2015 21:19
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I really never thought Dave was writing these long things twice a week when sometimes it sounds like they're just banging these out between other obligations anyway. I really can't believe they thought they'd be okay making money while using them without credit and that this wouldn't happen.
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Jul 9, 2015 21:20
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Rodyle posted:Period. This is not defensible Toxx. yeah, sure
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Jul 9, 2015 21:30
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yeah, using DI's work without attribution is indefensible from any standpoint. If they had attribution, I would be fine defending it from a moral standpoint, because it'd just be a derivative work at that point and I'm pretty much always for that, but even then it'd probably not be defensible from a legal standpoint 
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Jul 9, 2015 21:33
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It's such a dumb mistake to make. All he needed to do was attribute the writers and keep the quoted sections to a reasonable length, and I don't think anyone would have had a problem with it.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:50
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Yeah, people might have issues with how the DI fella approached this whole thing, but not acknowledging that it's at least a little bit lovely to top off of someone else's work without giving credit is pretty crappy, too. A simple show notes post on their site or shout out on the podcast would likely suffice.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:24
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I wouldn't be so sure that it would be totally okay with everyone, considering DI literally puts out that content as podcasts as well. I think if you're going to crib that heavily from someone's work you should ask first, especially if they are occupying the same medium as you. Facts are facts historically speaking but when you're taking several sentences wholesale you're using someone else's words and they should get a say. I'm not talking legally, just as creators dealing with creators. Attribution should be the absolute minimum, though. I do recommend the DI podcast, for what its worth. It doesn't have the comic wrapper but the stories are still cool/interesting. This is like watching two friends fight. (Well, friends who have no idea I exist and that I simply watch from afar wait this is a bad analogy nevermind)
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Jul 10, 2015 01:59
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Have Dave and Gary responded yet? Last I heard from them was 'we will respond soon'. I really hope they aren't dicks about this and they acknowledge that they are in the wrong. I love the podcast and I really hope this can be resolved somewhat amicably.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:03
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tnimark posted:Have Dave and Gary responded yet? Last I heard from them was 'we will respond soon'. I really hope they aren't dicks about this and they acknowledge that they are in the wrong. I love the podcast and I really hope this can be resolved somewhat amicably. They were both kind of smug about it on Twitter and acted annoyed that though was made public.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:15
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I think ethically, nonfiction stories are put out there to be read, discussed, written about, podcaster about, etc. The Dollop is definitely adding to the discussion, which is better than recycling someone else's work whole. They shouldn't be reading entire pieces start-to-finish, which I think crosses a line. And obviously, writers should get credit for their words. But they could do basically the same show without issue if they just did it right.Rodyle posted:They were both kind of smug about it on Twitter and acted annoyed that though was made public. Yeah. On Reddit, Dave posted a big list of sources with a comment like "think this would make for a good podcast?" But there's a big difference between citing your sources, which is a good practice, and attributing direct quotes. wafflesnsegways fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 04:57
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I love the Dollop but if you're gonna straight up read an article someone else wrote (and get like $2k a month for it through Patreon) you could at least have the courtesy to be like "thanks for this episode go to [whatever site he's reading off of]"
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Jul 10, 2015 05:14
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The Berzerker posted:I love the Dollop but if you're gonna straight up read an article someone else wrote (and get like $2k a month for it through Patreon) you could at least have the courtesy to be like "thanks for this episode go to [whatever site he's reading off of]" Yeah. Dave posted that he doesn't have enough time to create a sources page, but that's a poor excuse when they are making money off this content. I'd certainly be fine with the Dollop only coming out weekly if it meant things were all above board.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:21
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I posted about this in the dollop reddit and Dave personally just told me to gently caress off and not listen to his show anymore. I'm taking his advice on this one.
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Jul 10, 2015 07:57
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Dave is doing a very poor job at handling this
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Jul 10, 2015 08:24
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oatgan posted:Dave is doing a very poor job at handling this Yeah, he's being a petulant moron about it. It's pretty pathetic.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:27
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Yeah the worm has kinda turned for me on this
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Jul 10, 2015 08:29
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PerilPastry posted:Yeah, he's being a petulant moron about it. It's pretty pathetic. Honestly when I first heard about this I kinda assumed Dave would be a dick about it, although I'm disappointed to be right. He's always come across as a bit of a self-righteous prick. I don't think he's the 'admit fault and apologise' kind of guy.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:33
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Well if he's going to be a dick about it then yeah I guess I will just stop listening to the podcast.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:51
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Blah here I thought people made a bunch of posts discussing some cool poo poo happening in new eps but it's just...this I really couldn't care less, I always assumed Dave was just straight up reading Wikipedia or something anyway, it was always more about the comedy format (Gary reacting to things being read by Dave) than their historical research or integrity or whatever I mean it is careless though, I could take ten minutes and script some spiel up based on a random historical event described via wiki/somethingawful/reddit/damninteresting/whatever bullshit and just slightly reword it to avoid some internet beef I mean, it's the events and Gary reacting to them that's funny, the specific way it's written/research is irrelevant. Damninteresting isn't in any way responsible for any of the entertainment factor of the podcast, just Dave being lazy/dumb I guess. You just tell the story of the Killdozer after browsing various internet pages about it. Did Dave never turn in a college essay or something? Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 09:37
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Well as far as content I thought the Mussolini meatballs thing was terribly unfunny, the first time I really rolled my eyes at them in more than a dozen episodes.
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Jul 10, 2015 09:44
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It doesn't ruin the show for me or anything like that it's just a lame thing to do and for Dave to react like he's the one being inconvenienced here when all he has to do is plug some guy's article for further reading or include a link in the show notes is absurd content-wise the only episode I think is outright bad is "Goody Davis and Elizabeth Howell." Just a totally uninteresting story that's hard to follow because they have trouble reading it oatgan fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 09:48
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I haven't caught up so I'ma be pretty bummed if some new poo poo gets taken down before I manage a listen.  I can't even guess what Mussolini and meatballs was worked into but as long as it has a goofy slightly offensive accent I'm onboard (we need more Irishmen involved though, more more more)Honestly they're only cringeworthy/skippable for me when they try to get too serious ala the Ferguson ep. I mean, I know you mean well Dave, but I'm not turning to you guys to hear the important matters of the day discussed. Luckily the LAPD series toed the line between hilarity and A Very Special Episode. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 09:50
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Blurgh if they're gonna be assholes and indignant about this it's really gonna turn me off the show, which is a shame, because literally before this came up I was a huge fan. It's like, just own up, apologize, and use some of your loving Patreon money to hire someone to do research for you. If that takes more time, cut out the Smallops. Done. Everyone is happy. But they're reacting int the worst possible way, when they're completely in the wrong. It's plagiarism, through and though.
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Jul 10, 2015 10:36
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You don't even need to hire a dude for research, just skim a couple internet pages about a historical event and then just retell it to Gary. Literally using the exact same words is just pointless and dumb
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Jul 10, 2015 10:49
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Jul 10, 2015 10:56
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tnimark posted:Honestly when I first heard about this I kinda assumed Dave would be a dick about it, although I'm disappointed to be right. He's always come across as a bit of a self-righteous prick. I don't think he's the 'admit fault and apologise' kind of guy. Yeah unfortunately this is kind of par for the course. If I had to make guesses at the future I'd say he'll probably change things around or find some way to credit his sources but be a real rear end in a top hat about it for a month or so. TheFallenEvincar posted:You don't even need to hire a dude for research, just skim a couple internet pages about a historical event and then just retell it to Gary. Literally using the exact same words is just pointless and dumb Eh, it needs to be written in a way that's easy to present and coherent, and I can see the argument that he just doesn't have the time to do that himself twice a week and still do comedy shows and write for TV. There's just a lot of gulf between that and having zero citations whatsoever. Just a little citation page on his website would be sufficient for me.
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Jul 10, 2015 13:37
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it would be an incredibly small amount of effort on Dave and Gary's part to at least say "this episode's content comes from DamnInteresting.com, Wikipedia, and whatever" but the fact that Dave is getting his back up and blocking people on twitter and whatever is not surprising. Also though, he has had to deal with some real goofs, I saw a tweet from some guy telling Dave that he should be hung in the middle of town as an example of what happens to plagiarists which is bonkers
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Jul 10, 2015 14:27
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If he doesn't want to put it in the podcast itself he could just put it in the show notes, like Hardcore History does.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:29
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And I always thought it would be Greg who would bring down Dave's career.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:37
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I don't think a citation on a show page that most listeners won't see, or a mention at the very end will be enough for damninteresting, though. They aren't a completely comedic outlet, but their stories are meant to entertain and generate revenue. That's why Dave has been using them so much. The stories are written to build up to the twists, which gives more of an impact for Gary to react to. But Dave doesn't want anyone to read articles there before he reads them verbatim for him and Gary to laugh and add a few jokes, so now he's refusing to plug them. I've wondered for a while what was going on with the writing. It's much better done than Dave seems capable of, and it was weird to never credit anyone. The fact that Dave has been making money that hasn't gone back into the show and now he's bitching about citations that that woman who built the show site for them for loving free could do is damning. Dave just found an almost no effort podcast format and now he's throwing a fit about being asked to do an extra half hour of work for each one.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:48
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Just listened to the Hollow Earth episode. I was reading about this plagiarism happening when it got to the part where they made fun of the main guy for stealing pieces from other people's theories.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:52
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Echoing the feeling that it'd be better if they just slowed down the pace of the podcast if that's what it takes to make sure everything is aboveboard. I was kinda wondering how Dave and Gary managed to make it a biweekly podcast with both episodes not even being the 15-20 min "smallops" when they ostensibly also have day jobs.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:10
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Drunkboxer posted:If he doesn't want to put it in the podcast itself he could just put it in the show notes, like Hardcore History does. Yeah, but Dan Carlin actually writes HH, and when he's is reading someone else, he always says exactly who it's coming from. Another thing - the show probably isn't as good if he's writing this stuff himself, because like someone else said the DI stories seem to be perfectly written for this format. Who knows if Dave can do it as well himself? (Also I must admit I was laughing like a bastard during the Mussolini/meatballs thing, dumb as it was)
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Jul 10, 2015 15:26
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head58 posted:And I always thought it would be Greg who would bring down Dave's career. Going back to even his days on WTR it's not surprising that Dave would wreck something he did. It makes perfect sense that he would damage himself acting exactly how he describes his dad. The best ending that we'll realistically get is a begrudging citation segment at the end of episodes that Dave is pissy about every time.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:31
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Dave's reactions don't surprise me. It would be nice if he could even just loving paraphrase the text.TheFallenEvincar posted:Did Dave never turn in a college essay or something? I can't say he hasn't, but based on some of his remarks about his younger days he's made, probably not. It would explain why he's reacting with this defensive stance. It's a little uncomfortable knowing a comedian and writer of all people couldn't be bothered to rephrase the content. I understand he's a busy man with a family and I'm not, but there's literally enough time in each day to take the text for one of these episodes and go over it once or twice. I'm not even sure I personally care enough to not listen anymore or anything like that. Can't say I've heard about DI before so I don't have any urge to side with DI, but it really is uncomfortable to read Dave's responses. He absolutely doesn't care, it seems. I imagine in a hypothetical situation if he was more famous, this would be some sort of Shia-LeBouf-esque gently caress up that would earn him a few years of hate. Although I think LeBouf totally copped to what he did.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:24
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It won't matter in the end. People won't care and they will make more money. If he is this lazy with the podcast I wonder what would happen if his stand up was looked at closely.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:38
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Practical Demon posted:I don't think a citation on a show page that most listeners won't see, or a mention at the very end will be enough for damninteresting, though. The way that post sounded, I don't think anything would be enough for damninteresting at this point. It's just enough to acknowledge that Dave is not writing these things and that the content of the show is really him and Gareth's banter and reactions. That seems to be enough to placate a lot of people here, and I assume a majority of fans. Whether that's enough for places like damninteresting that carry stories like this is a crazy gray area that a lot of internet content is skidding into, but Dave has to at least make an effort to be in that gray area.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:44
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I mean, I certainly don't care. Damninteresting (which I hadn't even heard of prior to this) doesn't fill the same niche for me and discovering the Dollop i was pretty overjoyed to find a new podcast as my current fave podcast. I'd be pretty bummed if that died, the format is still perfect for me and despite people saying the writing he stole was perfect and well written, I didn't really get hooked by the strength of the written historical account. I always just figured he had some rephrased notes or some wiki he was reading off of. Honestly though, the dude could just stick links somewhere in a perfunctory way (no one would ever see em anyway) instead of reddit raging. Dave's definitely been a lame rear end in a top hat but I expected that when I started listening to a comedy podcast hosted by standup comedians.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:47
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Maduo posted:The way that post sounded, I don't think anything would be enough for damninteresting at this point. It's just enough to acknowledge that Dave is not writing these things and that the content of the show is really him and Gareth's banter and reactions. That seems to be enough to placate a lot of people here, and I assume a majority of fans. Or the person/people behind DI should put on the site that they're the unpaid staff writer(s) for The Dollop podcast.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:54
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