|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:I like all these references to the 50s. Very convincing. The most vicious racism of recent US history has been in Boston with the bussing thing, I think.
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 10:26 |
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:I like all these references to the 50s. Very convincing. As happy as you might be that you had black people at your Thanksgiving dinner, actually statistics tell us that racism is alive and well and that cities and schools are about as segregated as they were decades ago with no signs of this changing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 03:50
|
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:I like all these references to the 50s. Very convincing. I live in Chicago. I had a black boss, a Chicano boss, and a Mexican boss. I guess I win the anecdote competition.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 03:52
|
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:I like all these references to the 50s. Very convincing. There's no racism guys, I got black friends and know black people!
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 03:54
|
|
|
Racism is not a Southern phenomenon. You guys that believe the Majority of the South are racists are just as bad as the minority of the South that are racists. What you're practicing when you say things like that is bigotry, of which racism is a form of. By the way, I'm not arguing that the South isn't racist. I'm arguing that the South is no more racist than the North, and that your beliefs are dumb and misinformed. PS: Solve your massive inequality and segregation problems in Chicago before you pick at the South. Ferdinand the Bull fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 03:56
|
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:I like all these references to the 50s. Very convincing. Also from the south and my family is currently discussing all those uppity lazy people in Ferguson who are actually just upset because they can't rig elections to get handouts anymore thanks to voter ID laws, just hours after having a conversation about how the genocide of natives in South America is terrible but it was totally different from North America because (a) Indians here weren't really civilized, like with cities and stuff, (b) settlers here just wanted to raise families and build homes and mow their lawns, while those greedy Spanish and Portugese wanted gold, and (c) the Spanish aren't really white are they, like, you know, they're darker and stuff. By the rule of conservation of anecdotes we cancel and are back to the neutral position of everywhere is racist but Jesus loving Christ Is The South Racist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:Racism is not a Southern phenomenon. You guys that believe the Majority of the South are racists are just as bad as the minority of the South that are racists. Oh good let's hear more about the *real racists*. Care to enlighten us as to what the Chicago equivalent of the CCC is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Conservative_Citizens
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
menino posted:Oh good let's hear more about the *real racists*. Care to enlighten us as to what the Chicago equivalent of the CCC is? quote:The organization is headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri. Other US states with active chapters include Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, California and New York. Sporadic CofCC activities occur in other parts of the country as well. The Chicago equivalent is probably the local Illinois chapter. e: am I missing a joke here? it seems weird that you wouldn't have read the first paragraph of the page you posted. Miltank fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:07
|
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:
A larger majority of white southerners are consciously racist compared to the slight majority of white northerners. In effect it's a subtle difference, but it exists.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:08
|
|
|
menino posted:Oh good let's hear more about the *real racists*. Care to enlighten us as to what the Chicago equivalent of the CCC is? Oh, I dunno, the Illinois chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens? Or the Chicagoan Minuteman Project? This is so dumb. I'm not getting into an argument over the internet about which area of the country is more racist. All of America is racist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:08
|
|
|
All of America is racist and people who ignore this generally want to pretend that the patch they're from is the least racist, because it means they themselves and the people they know and care about can't possibly be contributing to systemic racism in this country as much as those assholes over there are.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:11
|
|
|
Miltank posted:The Chicago equivalent is probably the local Illinois chapter. Sloppily posted. I did not include the fact that the MS chapter was headed by Haley Barbour's brother. There's racists who live and work in Chicago but they don't have national or statewide leverage, which is the difference. Another difference is the composition by % of total population.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:13
|
|
|
It's super easy when the problem can be compacted down to being The Other Guys' Problem, then YOU never have to actually do any work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:16
|
|
|
menino posted:Another difference is the composition by % of total population. Oh neato, where did you dig up membership info on the CCC?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:16
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:Oh neato, where did you dig up membership info on the CCC? I can't get the numbers from the book right now but it's from Blood and Politics by Zeskind. Maybe it's not explicitly stated though, so I will walk that back.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:22
|
|
|
Racism is everywhere, like others have mentioned it's more subtle and hidden up north. While you can go down to Alabama and hear more openly about lazy blacks on welfare popping out kids or whatever, it's more crouched in euphemisms in the north. 'Shady' neighborhoods, white flight, segregation without being blatant about it. St. Louis is its own mess in that way. I wouldn't call it the south (even though you can drive about 15 minutes south of it and get Meth's Finest) but subtle racism basically ends up being 'What high school did you go to?' here. It may seem like an odd question but there's a lot of implications in it. Private school/suburb school? Okay. City/North county school? EEEEEHHHHHHHHHH.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
Stanos posted:Racism is everywhere, like others have mentioned it's more subtle and hidden up north. While you can go down to Alabama and hear more openly about lazy blacks on welfare popping out kids or whatever, it's more crouched in euphemisms in the north. 'Shady' neighborhoods, white flight, segregation without being blatant about it. Oh that poo poo exists in the south too. In fact, there's more of it these days than the old school Maddox/Wallace variety. Part of that's just slowly moving into the modern era, but the number of northerners moving to the south and bringing their culture along with them is a factor too. Teaching an old dog new tricks and all that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:30
|
|
|
I am a southroner and am comfortable with people saying that the Southern and interior Western states are more overtly racist than the North. This is both because I am very confident that it is true and because I feel that white southroners need to collectively acknowledge the depth and pervasiveness of our cultural original sin before we can make progress against its modern-day incarnations. No whitewashing the history of slavery and seccession and segregation. No ignoring the lynchings and white sheets and the fact that southroners left Strom Thurmond in office until he was over a hundred years old. In some places, one can fly the Stars and Bars with sewn-on-text that reads "N*ggers fear to tread" (a thing a person I know did) without being ostracized from polite society, while in others you cannot. The places where one can are disproportionately likely to be either here or in western flyover country. One region of the country is fifty years removed from pulling a complete and persistent political defection purely because one party went pro-segregation and the other didn't. One region of the country awarded the last third-party electoral victories to a guy who ran on hard-line segregationism. That region is the South. Some states drag their heels on ratifying the 13th ammendment, play horrible minstrel-dialect tunes as an expression of cultural pride, and obsessively romanticize the vicious oppression or genocide of entire peoples. Those states are here. In the North, the police, courts and economic systems oppress minorities, yes, but we do all of that here as well. We have all the expressions of racism that they have up North, but also have our own that aren't acceptable elsewhere. If I had to describe the difference, I would say that, in the North, racism is increasingly difficult to separate from classism: an archetypal northern whitefolk might vote for a hispanic guy, work for a black guy and buy insurance from a native american guy, but get nervous when they pass any similar-looking person in the street who isn't wearing a nice suit or driving a nice car. Whereas an archetypal southern white wouldn't care what somebody was wearing or what their job was: if they've got the wrong skin-tone, they're still just a n*gger, or a beaner, or a sand-n*gger or whatever. Both varieties of discrimination make things harder on minorities, but in terms of how to combat them they are wildly different phenomenae. With a lot of overlap, to be sure. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 04:54
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:The most vicious racism of recent US history has been in Boston with the bussing thing, I think. Could you link to that? I'm curious.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:
If this was true you would not have frequent interaction (economic or otherwise) between whites (especially those of the same social class) and minorities in southern states. But you do, quite frequently actually.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:28
|
|
|
I grew up in Southern California and faced tons of racism growing up in mostly white suburbs. I never really take it as given that interactions with white people in public are going to be friendly as a result.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:31
|
|
|
1st AD posted:I grew up in Southern California and faced tons of racism growing up in mostly white suburbs. I never really take it as given that interactions with white people in public are going to be friendly as a result. California has, ironically, one of the largest collection of known hate groups according to the SPLC
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:It's super easy when the problem can be compacted down to being The Other Guys' Problem, then YOU never have to actually do any work. Yeah, in a world where a black kid gets gunned down two seconds after cops shows up in a Northern state it's very naive to say that racism is a southern problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:34
|
|
|
Still not as racist as Japan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:41
|
|
|
InterceptorV8 posted:Still not as racist as Japan. Still not as racist as almost ever country on the planet. Does anyone else here remember that GBS thread about how racist Europeans are?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:43
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:California has, ironically, one of the largest collection of known hate groups according to the SPLC California was/is: 1) A good place to move if you got your poo poo pushed in during the rebellion. 2) The home of a substantial conquered population. 3) A magnet for non-white immigration. 4) A majority-minority state. Pretty much everything you could want (except chattel slavery/reconstruction) to breed white racists.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:44
|
|
|
Miltank posted:Still not as racist as almost ever country on the planet. Does anyone else here remember that GBS thread about how racist Europeans are? Was that the one in which they didn't talk about the soccer matches where people threw bananas at the black players?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:50
|
|
|
InterceptorV8 posted:Was that the one in which they didn't talk about the soccer matches where people threw bananas at the black players? Yes, the one where a euro goon said that Europe wasn't racist because as long as you perfectly integrate into the local culture you will not be discriminated against.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
InterceptorV8 posted:Was that the one in which they didn't talk about the soccer matches where people threw bananas at the black players? I remember a Roma thread here in D&D where a bunch of Europeans came down and said effectively "but they're actually a bunch of savages, we're not being racist  ".
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Could you link to that? I'm curious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_busing_desegregation Also features a pretty iconic picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soiling_of_Old_Glory 
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:54
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:California was/is: http://youtu.be/AK3cSIvftW4 WHITE racists?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:54
|
|
|
http://youtu.be/MI7K0lstiYg I saw this on TV today and was rather impressed that this whole episode didn't cause a uproar.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 05:58
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Could you link to that? I'm curious.  http://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/04/04/a-flag-a-busing-fight-and-a-famous-photograph In the late 70s there were full blown race riots in Boston. It's no secret that there are racists in the south, but these passive aggressive slacktivist threads are pretty worthless. It's a great way to assuage your white guilt if you live above the Mason Dixon, but it does absolutely nothing to address the real issues that minorities are facing in any urban area in the U.S. If a white person is that desperate to say "Don't lump me in with those assholes!", it's much more expedient to sew a Canadian flag on your backpack. If a white person actually wants to make some sort of dent, then they need to look at what's going on in their own city and see what kind of activist or advocacy groups are working to fight these problems and go lend a hand.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 06:04
|
|
|
Weltlich posted:If a white person is that desperate to say "Don't lump me in with those assholes!", it's much more expedient to sew a Canadian flag on your backpack. Which is exceedingly funny when you figure in the Native Americans and increasingly the Chinese.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 06:06
|
|
|
Whoever said the difference between northern and southern racism was the difference between overt and covert was right. In the south, when the mayor orders the cops to bomb a building full of blacks they put their hoods on first. In the north, when the mayor orders the cops to bomb a building full of blacks, they let you know exactly who was responsible. And what the heck, the mayor might be a black guy too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 06:20
|
|
|
InterceptorV8 posted:Still not as racist as Japan. Is Japan more or less racist than your hero Clive Bundy, though?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 06:41
|
|
|
It's worth remembering that when MLK and his supporters marched into a white neighborhood in Chicago, the residents went insane with rage and almost brained King with a thrown rock. quote:I think the people from Mississippi ought to come to Chicago to learn how to hate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 06:55
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:
This is the answer OP. Claiming the north is 'just as racist' is preposterous given the difference in views of elected officials.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:Is Japan more or less racist than your hero Clive Bundy, though? Don't make me waterboard you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 07:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 10:26 |
|
|
tsa posted:This is the answer OP. Claiming the north is 'just as racist' is preposterous given the difference in views of elected officials. How do you account for things like Robert Moses running highways through black neighborhoods? Northern racism might not have been as much a "prestige" thing, where you have to be in the KKK if you want to win that gubernatorial election or whatever, but it's still there. Daley didn't send the police in to break up protests with water cannons and dogs, but he sure as hell didn't want integration to go through. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 07:12
|
|