"Everything is problematic" - McGill activist's story about deradicalizing

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > "Everything is problematic" - McGill activist's story about deradicalizing

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Like anything widespread or popular, people are going to jump on board but get it wrong and take things in weird directions.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2014 05:35

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 06:34

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

goatse.cx posted:

These issues exist but privilege theory go about them in a unproductive, individualistic way; see the obsession with personal identity and individual states of being found in 'SJWs'.

Amateurs using rulers to measure their microdicks doesnt prove that math is useless.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2014 08:39

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Space Whale posted:

Also nobody ever said what privileges I'd lose or have to give up. Just that I would and it's making me uncomfortable, since that's gratifying for sjws to think of normal people.

What?

Discendo Vox posted:

Under this metaphor, privilege makes for a poor ruler because its framing is individual- in other words, it is scaled at the microdick level.

No you misunderstand, you've got it backwards. You think that because your experience with it is weird people on the internet but weird people on the internet get things wrong and are not a good source to learn from.

goatse.cx posted:

Good ideas should be able to survive vulgarization, besides, it is hardly coincidence that so many 'sjw's and young activists 'misapply' privilege theory in precisely the same way. At the heart of privilege theory is the idea that privilege could only be revealed to the privileged individuals by listening to the personal experience of the unprivileged individuals - which, being subjective and easily distorted by memory, perspective and socialization, is not a good carrier of truth - and this all works towards a nebulous end, as the best those privileged could do upon realizing their privilege is to be more self-aware and try to check personally oppressive behavior, since them being 'white male' or whatever could never dissociate themselves from their role as oppressors. It's not a good theory and certainly not a good leading light for the left.

I don't know what you're talking about but it's not privilege theory.

e: there seems to be a lot of hand wringing in this thread about privilege meaning you have to this or have to that and it reminds me of people who are ignorant of evolution believing that evolution prescribes nihilism.

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Dec 8, 2014

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 06:39

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Space Whale posted:

A lot of people really enjoy going "oh that makes you feel so uncomfortable, losing your privileges, are you threatened?" (or whatever way they frame it or phrase it) when someone asks "ok so, what do I have that I need to give up or have taken from me?"

People in this thread, even!

Never seen that before, can you link it for me? And who is taking away anything from anybody?

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 06:48

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

If we're kicking people out for not knowing what they're talking about before talking about it with threads gonna get pretty quiet. I mean,

"this all works towards a nebulous end, as the best those privileged could do upon realizing their privilege is to be more self-aware and try to check personally oppressive behavior, since them being 'white male' or whatever could never dissociate themselves from their role as oppressors. "

where do people get this stuff?

Space Whale posted:

I asked this already and someone said "well cops will lose the privilege to kill black kids and get away with it" which I'm OK with. Not sure how a "privilege" isn't "any act an agent can take" with such a broad (useless) definition but ok?

So then I asked what I'd lose as just some random person and it sort of fell apart when SedanChair suggested I not put blood on my door and Hashem would come kill me since I'm a first born or something.

I suppose you would lose the privilege of being treated better than discriminated against minorities. That is, you wouldn't be treated any worse, you wouldn't be treated like minorities are now, they would be treated like you are now (if you're a straight white man) and so would you.

Space Whale posted:

There's a useful way to suggest "hey, maybe it's not just you, maybe you have help you can't readily see just yet, but it's there, and not everyone has it, poo poo's not fair or equal, so let's make it that way" and there's also "you're not suffering the way I a so gently caress you shitlord."

Which is the true scotsprivilege?

Some people seem to read things the worst possible way. I don't know maybe they had a bad first experience with the concept or maybe they are reflexively defensive to new ideas. :iiam:

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 07:05

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

I'm glad you don't have any problems with it, Space Whale. I agree, a lot of hostility seems to be based on a reflexive response on what people think it means. It also reminds me of feminism in that way.

Josef bugman posted:

So give me things to do to make stuff better for people who are not privileged, don't tell me I am and then just say "well recognise it" I don't want to recognise something if it does precisely jack and poo poo to solve problems for others or myself. Just going "well I am white and reasonably well off" sounds more like something done as "positive affirmation" by wankers than by people trying to help others out.

You mean my tape measure doesn't build a house by itself? Sounds like you want to join an anti-racist activist group. Check your local bulletin boards.

goatse.cx posted:

Care to explain what it is, then, and from whence you drew your definition from? I'll directly quote Peggy Mcintosh, generally considered the founding stalwart and most influential proponent of privilege theory:

That doesn't say anything like what you posted. That's describing a persons personal experience. It doesn't say you can only learn about it by listening to personal anecdotes from somebody nor does it say you're forever cursed by your whiteness or w/e nor does it talk about any "end goals" of privilege.

Discendo Vox posted:

No true privilege. More seriously, the problem of privilege theory is that it is prone to the misunderstanding and abuse that I and others in the thread have referred to.

Privilege and everything else. Find me a concept used by professionals that's not also misused by amateurs somewhere.

Josef bugman posted:

So how do I do anything? I work at the lowest rung in an organisation how am I supposed to change things from this perspective? What is privilege supposed to do in that sort of situation.

But it doesn't. Simply "understanding yourself" so easily gives way to either navel gazing or making yourself miserable because of things that you cannot change about yourself.

What were you going to do before? At least now you're less likely to think institutional discrimination wasn't a thing because you were ignorant of the "privileges" available to you.

Josef bugman posted:

I just wanted to say that whilst I do not agree with all of your points I am sorry for what you have gone through. Both in terms of life and in terms of "Well I could have had it harder" bullshit.

Where does this keep coming from?

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 07:47

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Sorry about your friends, Josef Bugman.

paranoid randroid posted:

I was under the impression that privilege checking was a thought experiment tool meant to make people consider ways in which they benefit from their backgrounds. Using it as a cudgel, or a method of self-flagellation, does not seem useful or helpful to anyone.

Holy poo poo you put it so much better than I did.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 08:18

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

You admit you're reading things into it when you say it's implied. All I can suggest is reading things at face value, without trying to discern a hidden implied meaning.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 09:06

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Space Whale posted:

Who is worse the derailleur or the derailed? _{Yes I know this isn't about bikes}

I guess it's arguable whether or not there's justification in "as demonstrated with this offensive act, y'all focus too much on scoring points to be productive and are generally hard to put up with" justifying being offensive, but the fact that it's easy as poo poo to make people go off like this and keep it going stands. It only ended when I actually had work to do.

But yes I am the one trolled by them you see.

Anyway, if you were genuinely offended when I said g__k, I'm genuinely sorry. If you just look for poo poo to go accusing over, please reflect on how easy it is to derail you and what it says about your community that anyone can do this so easily. For gently caress's sake.

Remember when I said privilege and original sin are the same thing, then someone goldmined the thread with the single post "God actually offers forgiveness?"

Seriously, thanks for getting this out of my performance. You made it worth it. Now I need to go check my privileges a thousand times so if I self identify as left wing or socialist saying gook on something awful doesn't make stigmata appear on my forehead in the form of "CASEY JONES" in big red text while an Elephant somehow scoots over it like a dog scraping it's butt.

You posted your life story and fuckload of words in defence of a weird racist grandpa simpson thing to say. You've posted twice more in the time it took to post this.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 23:33

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 06:34

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

the left

# ¿ Dec 9, 2014 07:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > "Everything is problematic" - McGill activist's story about deradicalizing