|
Android Blues posted:Inane is probably too strong, honestly. I liked Joan Is Awful on the whole, it just feels way looser and messier than most Black Mirror episodes. The premise doesn't really make a tonne of sense, is my main beef. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2019/04/23/could-ai-replace-hollywood-with-personalized-movies/?sh=36bb3a9453f1 quote:Given their exponential rate of improvement, it is only a matter of time before these AI creation engines are able to generate photorealistic scenes that match those of human artists and begin to show glimpses of novelty and creativity rather than pure mimicking or randomization. There's basically already startups trying to pitch the dream where everyone can have their own channel tailored to their exact needs, complete with literal self inserts (What if Indiana Jones was YOU!) So just take it one step further and make the ML input the digital footprint of a human and you end up with slightly ersatz day-in-the-life shows...
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 11:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 21:58 |
|
|
Resdfru posted:That would have been a cool black mirror concept. Everyone living fake lives because everything they do is put on a TV show. Social media or reality TV turned up to 11. Yeah when Joan wanted the show to stop my initial though was "just spend a week sitting about at home doing nothing and talking to nobody so the interest goes away" but my partner pointed out that people watched however many seasons of Big Brother avidly so that might not have worked out. Violently making GBS threads yourself in church is obviously the superior option.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 12:03
|
|
|
I don't think there is anything "wrong" with black mirror doing stories that are not tech related, it's just that up now they all have been up to now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 12:45
|
|
|
veni veni veni posted:The idea that people stopped visiting a tourist town because of a murder is still weak as hell though. It would have bumped up tourism from the onset. The market for sleepy village destinations is middle class families, not your archetypal dark tourist. They pick a destination partly based on what the neighbours will think when they brag about where they went this summer. They won't go when its a tabloid crime (but they will when its Netflix crime) sebzilla posted:Yeah when Joan wanted the show to stop my initial though was "just spend a week sitting about at home doing nothing and talking to nobody so the interest goes away" but my partner pointed out that people watched however many seasons of Big Brother avidly so that might not have worked out. The reasonable assumption though would be that the show would hiatus, then drop a new episode as soon as you got in a relationship or got a new job or something. You'd basically have to commit to never doing anything interesting in your life again. massive spider fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jun 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 13:49
|
|
|
massive spider posted:The reasonable assumption though would be that the show would hiatus, then drop a new episode as soon as you got in a relationship or got a new job or something. You'd basically have to commit to never doing anything interesting in your life again. Hell yeah, goons are safe
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 19:03
|
|
|
It's been over a week so I'm assuming we're out of spoiler period. Joan is Awful - at first I was mad at yet another "it was all a simulation" ending, but at least this time everything happened in real life too. It also explains the hokey dialogue and vague explanations given by the AI simulation. I think it would have been better if they really had just singled out one person and didn't eventually plan to do it to everyone. Loch Henry - Genuinely creepy at times, which is rare for Black Mirror. It probably had the strongest commentary of this season. Beyond the Sea - I thought the acting and tension were great. The whole time you knew something bad would happen by letting David use Cliff's replica, but kept you guessing as to what it would be. I think they could have condensed a few of the visits down though for better pacing. Mazey Day - I liked the unexpected werewolf twist but kept expecting this to be some sort of horror-induced simulation again. It felt like there was supposed to be a lot more to this, but it went off the rails and got edited down to something minimal. Demon 79 - It's been done, but still really fun. I thought they were going to go with the route that her not killing the politician eventually leads to the apocalypse. I'm not sure if that would have been better or not. Overall I wouldn't put any of these in my top 5, but I didn't dislike any of them either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 21:09
|
|
|
Demon 79 was so much fun. I wonder if they knew Knock at the Cabin was coming out this year too but this one did it better and I would 100% watch an ongoing TV show with both these characters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 00:29
|
|
|
Superrodan posted:Someone earlier asked why they don't leave the Robots on the ship in Beyond the Sea and to me it seemed pretty clear that if there is some sort of technical failure you need to have it the other way. If things were to fail, there's clearly a preferable way for them to fail so that things can continue to get done. A robot to do a man's job? Inconceivable! I think the more obvious thing here is that NASA or whatever entity they work for would have "gotten a new crew up there asap". RestingB1tchFace fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 04:00
|
|
|
SweetMercifulCrap! posted:Demon 79 - It's been done, but still really fun. I thought they were going to go with the route that her not killing the politician eventually leads to the apocalypse. I'm not sure if that would have been better or not. It did though?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 13:00
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:It did though? I think they might mean the politicians actions in the future directly causing the apocalypse rather than it happening instantly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 13:31
|
|
|
Shame we're losing spoiler tags. Going episode to episode it was fun to go back through the last few pages like you'd been read-in to a top secret discussion. In retrospect, Beyond the Sea should have done the share, but have NASA waiting with a driver, a change of clothes and an understanding that the dude would never ever meet Cliff's family.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 15:31
|
|
|
Annabel Pee posted:I think they might mean the politicians actions in the future directly causing the apocalypse rather than it happening instantly. Yeah, this. Gaad even gave her a vision of a war-torn future (with a Metalhead cameo) that would happen if she didn't kill him. Having it happen instantly felt a little too on-the-nose to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 20:59
|
|
|
The way I tried to make sense of Beyond The Sea is that there is no comlink with Houston or Nasa involvement in the events on Earth because they are travelling way too far, way too fast on perhaps on a way too secret mission (hence the "two man job" constraint) to have any meaningful communications. There is, however, in order to keep both men as sane as possible in cramped quarters for a long time, an AI that creates a virtual reality not with goggles and haptic suits but by directly stimulating the brain and relying on the human imagination. They were probably fed some story about mechanical bodies and instant transmission to plant a seed, but the AI picks up on who they are and what they actually want - not on what they would want other people to think who they are or how they live. The events in either program are then a larger echo of their own flaws, insecurities and egos.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 07:04
|
|
|
What kind of precludes that is the scene with Kate Mara and the weird child in the car on their own.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 07:55
|
|
|
Kuiperdolin posted:What kind of precludes that is the scene with Kate Mara and the weird child in the car on their own. Also seems weird that the AI would create the home invasion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 11:43
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:Also seems weird that the AI would create the home invasion. To begin with I thought they were living in a Fallout 3 style AI environment to avoid the tedium of a long space flight, and the home invaders were some sort of hacking attempt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 11:54
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:Also seems weird that the AI would create the home invasion. Maybe the AI decides that it’s too inefficient (or unsafe) for both astronauts to spend most of their time in the matrix rather than doing Space Things and so it orchestrates a scenario where only one can be in it at a time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 11:57
|
|
|
sebzilla posted:To begin with I thought they were living in a Fallout 3 style AI environment to avoid the tedium of a long space flight, and the home invaders were some sort of hacking attempt. Yeah I thought it was this with the strangers exclaiming over "you're so REAL" being AI characters and the home invaders with their weird names being humans.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 16:43
|
|
|
Jack the Lad posted:the home invaders with their weird names being humans.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 17:24
|
|
|
Me watching Mazey Day: "Why is this a Black Mirror episode?" Me watching the last ten seconds of Mazey Day: "Oh. Ooooooooooooooh."
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 18:01
|
|
|
While Beyond the Sea was taking forever, I kept wondering how the crew has a zero-latency connection to a robot replica but apparently doesn't communicate with anyone ever from the ship. I did appreciate accurately depicting the human crew as pointless. Send robots!
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 07:36
|
|
|
Also always interesting to see general consensus on top and maybe bottom tiers but a total mix in between.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 07:47
|
|
|
Meatgrinder posted:The events in either program are then a larger echo of their own flaws, insecurities and egos. Not sure I buy this because- and this is the key problem with all “it’s all a dream/hallucination” interpretations of stories - the events that transpire in any narrative are going to be an exploration of the characters flaws, insecurities and egos. That’s how plots work. Before anyone says black mirror does the simulation thing a lot- yeah sure, but ideally there’s some other angle when it’s used.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 08:51
|
|
|
Just watched the season, so here is my 2 cents on the episodes Joan is Awful - pretty basic Black mirror episode, technology but too much as its heart, AI makes money out of everything as a second. The quantum computer unnecessary "but its magic" to skip explaining how AI generative content works. Why does an online streaming service own the only functional quantum computer on the planet, and why could it not be fixed, or similar built to replace it, once broken? Also, put the two and two together when the scenes with lawyers were emphasizing about selling likeness, and how wooden and over-the-top Salma Hayek's acting was so I had a hunch that they are, or some parts are, a simulation. Loch Henry - I am pretty sure this was an episode of Shetland. Anyway, pretty lowkey, I did guess that the cop-father was involved but not the mother. Really didn't hate it, I like Nordic Noir so it helped, was expecting some other angle at the end but nope, straight "you lost everything because you wanted to do media business". Beyond the Sea - I guess the replica tech is so cheap and common that these people aren't given any sort of security or support services to see that everything works? I mean, even if replicas are common, that spaceship sure is expensive thing to lose because some hippies decide to destroy two replicants down on Earth, and there is no other means of stimulation onboard so your crew goes crazy eating toothpaste and staring at the walls for the rest of the 6-year mission. Someone else in the thread said that the story would have worked better, had David lost his family and replica body to a natural disaster, like fire or boat capsizing at the sea, I agree. Above average, could have been edited to 1 hour instead of feature length. Mazey Day - So we are doing supernatural and horror now? Again, not something I'd consider a strick Black Mirror episode, why isn't this "Red Mirror" if that is a thing now. Perfectly forgettable episode, which I'll probably have to check a wikipedia summary in 3-4 years to see if I have seen this one or not. Demon 79 - Again, not a technology or media critique show anymore are we. This one is at least sold as "the other Mirror". Funny episode, probably the most watchable. Strongest episode of the season, but only Black/Red Mirror by association. A nifty detail, if you think that Nida goes catatonic at the end when she realizes the token being a domino piece, this episode can take place entirely inside her mind. Well except the murder parts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2023 19:33
|
|
|
While I get the very human angle in Beyond the Sea, I just could not get over the complete lack of logistics and security, and the predictable nature of the plot. -These androids are probably as expensive as the whole space program, and they are allowed to go wherever and drive cars? It made me believe that earth was a simulation, and the whole thing was a social experiment. -"the replicas were made when we were on earth, so they can't make a new one for Josh Hartnett" is a weak rear end line since he can just plug into Aaron Paul's robot no problem. -the mission purpose is completely ambiguous, and I guess we are supposed to believe they just sit in the chairs for an entire week without eating or taking a poo poo? I'm not saying I wanted a scene of them plugging in catheters and tubes up their rear end.....but maybe show them eating a super nutritional tablet or whatever. I hate to get hung up on details like these, I read "Packing for Mars" a few weeks ago, so I could not get over the absence of redundancy and micromanaging that space agencies have always done.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
PacoPepe posted:-the mission purpose is completely ambiguous, and I guess we are supposed to believe they just sit in the chairs for an entire week without eating or taking a poo poo? I'm not saying I wanted a scene of them plugging in catheters and tubes up their rear end.....but maybe show them eating a super nutritional tablet or whatever. I thought there was a scene of the one guy eating the most disgusting looking goopy slop as food, which worked well to instill the absolute dread/depressiveness of somehow having to do that for the next four years or whatever. But yeah my biggest problem with that episode is still the fact that mission control was almost non-existent. Even in an alternate world where they have replica technology, we know that replicas aren't common — there's the shot at the beginning where someone stops the guy at the movie theatre and touches him and goes wow, it's like you're a real person, so the tech is obviously not widespread — and this space mission is clearly either important or costly or both because they refuse to recall it. And they do have some staff looking after the astronauts, because Cliff was offered relocation services and declined them. But like, space missions usually have dozens if not hundreds of supporting staff, extensive training for the astronauts and so on. and you're telling me there was no one around to say "ok well you're now both sharing this replica here is the schedule for it, and we're going to take it somewhere neutral so it doesn't extra gently caress up your psychology"? Instead they're just left to their own devices??? I've said this before but you obviously need to suspend a lot of disbelief for basic premises to work, but sometimes the details are very hard to ignore and detract from the story.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 20:09
|
|
|
I think being a space nerd just made that episode be bad for me. Maybe they should have made it be some sort of other type of mission that's far away. Maybe private deep sea mission or something. Something where it might be ok that there isn't literally a team of dozens of people available at all hours of the day to consult with on anything. But it being a clearly government sponsored space mission made it make no sense that no one in mission control ever checks in on them or checks what they are doing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
ISS smells like poo poo and piss so it's safe to assume that problem is handled.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 20:39
|
|
|
I've been thinking of ways that the story could be changed for it to work for me and so far I can't think of any. I just think the premise is flawed. The premise is that there are two guys who must share one replica, and this is because replicas are too expensive or take too long to make or whatever, and their real bodies are way out of the way which is why they're using replicas in the first place. If replicas were cheaper or more readily available they could just get the guy a new replica. If replicas are pricey and expensive then whoever invested in them (private cutthroat corp, a country government) would probably be keeping track of it, which means there would be some kind of support available for the replica users, who would be incentivized not to let these users gently caress off and attempt to kill each other or whatever while they're trying to accomplish whatever it is they're trying to accomplish. And there's a lot of scifi where there really isn't any mission control, whether that's because the tech has sufficiently progressed to AI computers or whatever or because contact was cut off. Well, contact can't be cut off here because they literally have a way to access all the people on earth, and if the tech was so progressed as to send nearly-unmanned missions out then we would be back to explaining why replica tech is new and uncommon but also completely unmonitored.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 20:53
|
|
|
My updated tierlist, new eps in italics, eps are ordered by season within tiers S: 15 Million Merits, White Christmas, San Junipero A: The Entire History of You, White Bear, Shut Up and Dance, Loch Henry, Demon 79 B: The National Anthem, Playtest, USS Callister, Nosedive, Bandersnatch, Striking Vipers, Joan is Awful C: Be Right Back, The Waldo Moment, Hang the DJ, Smithereens, Ashley Too, Beyond the Sea D: Arkangel, Crocodile, Black Museum, Mazey Day E: Men Against Fire, Metalhead F: Hated in the Nation Joan: A highly enjoyable episode but I was a little disappointed when it all turned out to be an AI/simulation thing, an overused cliche for BM Loch Henry: Like everybody else has already said, it's not very Black Mirrory but it was so well done for what it was that I didn't mind at all. A cynical but valuable commentary on truecrime Beyond the Sea: Extremely cool premise IMO, and I'm a sucker for space scifi, but it became very predictable as soon as the wife suggested sharing the robot. Also too long Mazey Day: Not sure what they were even going for here. Paparazzi bad, no poo poo. Suddenly werewolf? What the gently caress lol Demon 79: Another unconventional one but it ruled. I would watch a whole show with this premise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 20:54
|
|
|
Clocks posted:I've been thinking of ways that the story could be changed for it to work for me and so far I can't think of any. I just think the premise is flawed. I think there's enough framework there for some options: - "we do have another robot, but it's also an Aaron Paul, because its the test prototype, so go ahead and use it, just don't go near his wife...." Then of course he does. - "sure you can use my robot, Josh Hartnett, just don't use it to hunt down the people who killed your family, and please don't commit any sex crimes while youre at it!" - "the soviets something or other"
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
PacoPepe posted:I think there's enough framework there for some options: "We have another replica, but it's a big boxy 60s sci-fi robot, like Lost in Space" and then the rest of the episode plays out identically with this substitution.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
NASA gets defunded because Josh Hartnett is caught at a movie theater in a box replica and everyone is wondering what all the money was actually spent on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 23:42
|
|
|
I wrote up some thoughts on all of the episodes and then forgot this season happened  here's my ranking from best to worst I guess:Beyond The Sea: Really enjoyed this, but slice of life sci-fi is my genre. I was expecting Kate Mara to be into the affair and plot to kill him so the plot diverged from the predictable. Aaron Paul is insanely good and I'm pissed Westworld never got that acting out of him. Loch Henry: Very predictable but generally good. I'm curious against my will with true crime and the ending was truly a black screen self reflection moment. Did a much better job at critiquing Netflix than whatever Joan is Awful was doing. Demon 79: It was fun. It graduated from the 10 Cloverfield Lane school of "are they right or are they actually crazy? Oh they're both!" I probably would've changed the ending to cut when the cops looked out the window to leave some ambiguity about what the sirens are for. This kind of plays like a Doctor Who episode but a better Doctor Who episode than any Doctor Who episode in the last few years. Mazey Day: Very unserious episode. This has an all-time stupid full moon reveal. I was also very distracted by the Jeremy Allen White doppelganger. Joan is Awful: Pretty sure I'm in the minority but I HATED this. This episode has strong ‘ghost written by an MCU writer and meant to star Ryan Reynolds’ vibes. Way too meta without saying anything worthwhile. Somehow both slow when they were reacting to the show but also nonsensically fast in pacing Joan's undoing. Nobody is really reacting like a human being with the knowledge of Netflix listening to your every word. The twist and solving of the plot were so anticlimactic. Ultimately it's just a collage of other Black Mirror ideas and aesthetics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 00:36
|
|
|
Shneak posted:Joan is Awful: Pretty sure I'm in the minority but I HATED this. Nobody is really reacting like a human being with the knowledge of Netflix listening to your every word. On the other hand the reaction is literally the real world reaction to the revelation that every single smart device you own and the apps installed on them are sucking up every bit of data about you they can and these data sucking companies probably know every single thing about you including thjngs eve you don't know. shrug what can I do not have a phone? Lol did you see my really cool AI edited selfie, I had to sign away the rights to my face in perpetuity but it's so funny lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 01:50
|
|
|
I also hated Joan is Awful, felt like it was the most "going through the motions" of being a Black Mirror episode ever. Not particularly entertaining or insightful IMO and probably my least favorite of the season.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 01:55
|
|
|
Finally finished the whole season. Thought it was overall pretty bad! A step up from last season I think but not by much. I enjoyed Joan is Awful the most but that's because I like the sillier episodes of the show and the cast carried it. Somehow I didn't see the twist even when Michael Cera showed up, until he literally explained it. The most obvious twist in retrospect because Black Mirror can't loving help but do simulation theory. But I thought it actually worked for the episode. If anything the plot needed to get pushed farther and explored deeper. I had fun though. Loch Henry was probably the most consistent episode, but it was barely Black Mirror. I know it still sticks to BM themes and has an extremely on brand ending. But I kind of checked out when we discover the parents were the real murderers and it turns into schlocky horror for a second. Yes, they set it up well enough, but I groaned audibly when the twist was about to be revealed. All my problems with Beyond the Sea have been stated. Why go through all the trouble of having the hippies kill his family when a car accident would've resulted in the exact same plot? They should've factored into the story and themes but it felt like Mansion ripoff for its own sake. Ultimately the premise was too full of holes for me to get invested. They had the "two men share one body, and also it's the sixties" idea first and did a bad job engineering a plot to justify it. That said, the performances were tremendous and sold it fairly well. And I loved how it explored toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. They just needed to build it up in a more sensible way. Mazzie Star was a huge waste of Zazie Beets. The twist was funny but this was even less on theme than Loch Henry. Demon 79 is a good time. I don't know if I'd actually want a full Red Mirror. I'm glad Anjana Vasan got to show off her chops after being stuck in the dreadful final season of Killing Eve. This could've been shorter, but it was interesting enough. I am actually disappointed it didn't end up being in her head. And that she didn't kill her coworker. But I hope her and Gaap enjoy exploring the void. I should say, as negative as I was, this was still all entertaining. I just think they were leaning too hard into classic horror tropes but nothing was ever really scary all season. I don't think they're ever gonna hit the consistent highs of those first three seasons again, but I'll stick with it because it's enjoyable enough. I just think this show operates best when it tells stories about the soon-to-be future, and this season only had one episode like that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 05:13
|
|
|
I love the premise of Joan is Awful and I think it's one of those things where no explanation as to why the show about her appears or exists would have been better. Like it's some sort of supernatural thing or she just can't actually get answers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 05:41
|
|
|
Kuiperdolin posted:What kind of precludes that is the scene with Kate Mara and the weird child in the car on their own. Program keeps running, it's a persistent reality that doesn't need to be perceived or participated in to function  massive spider posted:Not sure I buy this because- and this is the key problem with all “it’s all a dream/hallucination” interpretations of stories - the events that transpire in any narrative are going to be an exploration of the characters flaws, insecurities and egos. That’s how plots work. I was thinking more along the lines of, these hippies are such a weird departure from the main setting and story and they disappear just as abruptly as they were introduced, feels like they're more of glitch, the AI reading beneath the character's superficial persona and acting upon his base desires. I think ultimately we can agree that the plotholes are there because the story simply wasn't thought through, the home invaders aren't the product of an AI that faithfully reads the subjects impulse to destroy the things he loves but lazy writing to get the characters from situation A to situation B in and set up the ending.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 18:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 21:58 |
|
|
Meatgrinder posted:Program keeps running, it's a persistent reality that doesn't need to be perceived or participated in to function It was a badly malformed and forced Charles Manson reference that actually made the episode worse. Had the family died in a car crash (caused by connection blacking out at the wrong moment so he blames himself and replica is destroyed in crash and fire) or boat capsizing (so he blames himself and the replica being in the bottom of the pacific ocean) the episode would have worked much better, and caused fewer question about mission security, and the cost of those replicas.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 18:39
|
|