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Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.
Some people have already broached this, but some others still seem to be looking at only a single group so I figured I would take a shot at it too.

If we're talking about surgery level dysphoria, it's a little more than just "society doesn't accept them". It's more like being born with a broken bone. The issue in this case seems to me to be that the mental stuff is more "who we are" than, say, a broken arm. If you cut off someone's arm, they are still more or less them. If you do something like cut out their entire frontal lobe, they become very different people.

This pill is like the frontal lobe cut to a very significant portion of the people being talked about. Right now, surgery is like fixing the broken arm for people with that level/kind of dysphoria.

For simple crossdressing, I think it's sufficient to just say that society needs to get their heads our of their asses about it. It's the less interesting of the problems anyway I think. It's also likely this could not be detected in childhood to administer the hypothetical pill too, so I'd say it's a wash on that hypothetical.

For the hormone replacement or surgery level/kind:

If someone wants to take the pill when they can make decisions (but with the option probably being available around puberty so hormone stuff can be fully effective) I think they should be able to. I don't think it would be too different than taking other psychotropic medications, especially if you could take one to "go back". They should have the choice of surgery or pill.

The childhood hypothetical is probably the most interesting here. On one hand, you would be saving them a lot of dysphoria for hypothetically cheaper. I am assuming the pill is like $5 and not the expensive piece of nanomachinery it might need to be. On the other, we don't know how much is tied to whatever it is that causes dysphoria so it might change many aspects of their personality aside from just removing the physical dysphoria.

If it only removes the physical dysphoria aspects, and it has no other personality side effects, and it is far cheaper than surgery, and society is ok with people anywhere along the gender expression spectrum (since they may still end up expressing between even with no physical dysphoria and may have a might higher chance to do so), then I think it should be considered for a typical (but not mandatory) course of treatment. Although, I still think it should be waited out until puberty at which point the dysphoria should most strongly start to present. Anytime before that would also require a hypothetical "transness" detector of some sort.

If any of those conditions are not met, then no. With the special caveat that if the only condition not met is that if the pill is about as expensive as surgery and such then it should still be considered since it is hypothetically safer (no surgery, no liver use) and preserves reproductive function (which a lot of people like to have).

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Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.
With that said I would like to say that we'll probably figure out how to clone opposite sex organs from the same person's genetic material before we have this hypothetical pill (if ever), and that would evade most of the sticky problems with the pill hypothetical.

Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.
But we gently caress with people's brains all the time? Have you never drunk alcohol? Any anti-depressants?

Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.

Nameless_Steve posted:

Don't gently caress with people's brains:
1) irreversibly
2) against their will
3) because they're different
There are some legitimate voluntary surgeries that violate 1, such as for some cases of epilepsy.

Also maybe not always 2. Emergency situations, they're gonna kill people, etc.

I'll take it as a strong set of general guidelines though.

Regarding the current hypothetical, if they took the magic pill of their own volition that would violate #1. I'd view that similarly to epilepsy surgeries and find it acceptable in many potential cases.

Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.

tsa posted:

We gently caress with people's brains all the time. What do you think CB therapy is?
Presumably we're talking about medicine type interventions (pills, surgery), not talking to people. If we cast a wide enough definition, then just having a baby which grows up is constantly loving with their brain.

Kylra fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Dec 8, 2014

Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.

GlyphGryph posted:

This is... pretty much a true statement though. A lot of people are super screwed up because of it, while others are super successful!
And it's not really specific to trans people so it doesn't seem all that interesting regarding the dysphoria or innate gender changer or whatever pill problem.

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Kylra
Dec 1, 2006

Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.
Diversity is pretty cool, also useful pretty often. It wouldn't do for everyone to want to be a football star and nothing else, for instance.

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