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Mokinokaro posted:I really wish they would've gone with that background for Aiden. His actions make so much more sense if he was a zealot stopping the monster of his own creation no matter the personal cost. I know, right? Then he'd have the moral highground, kind of (this would also require him to not steal money from random innocent people) and explain his obsession. Instead we have a guy who's just digging himself and his family in deeper because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to leave well enough alone. And for a supposed vigilante, you see Al Capone right in front of you and don't take action, what the hell kind of do-gooder are you, Aiden? COME ON!
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Jan 4, 2015 23:44
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Speedball posted:I know, right? Then he'd have the moral highground, kind of (this would also require him to not steal money from random innocent people) and explain his obsession. What's funny is that I just got to the mission where Aiden has to protect his nephew, and in that mission, removed from the context of the story before that point (And I presume after, based on Gul's commentary), his actions and motivations make sense. Still somewhat excessive thanks to the game mechanics, but you actually get the sense that Aiden gives a drat, and actually takes steps to try and make sure his nephew is safe, but is actually in the care of someone who can support him. Of course, he still could have come up with a better excuse on where Nicky was, but at the very least he has a reason to lie in that moment. The writers weren't incapable of at least being basically competent in their writing - yet somehow manage to fall short for so much of the game.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:00
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Speedball posted:I know, right? Then he'd have the moral highground, kind of (this would also require him to not steal money from random innocent people) and explain his obsession. Well, my point was that you could keep everything else and have Aiden be a "the ends justify the means" anti-hero and it would work. Probably better to make him more conflicted about his family but if they were pushing Blume as the primary antagonist it'd be easy enough to make a scenario where ctOS is a threat to his sister and Jack.
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Jan 5, 2015 11:49
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Mokinokaro posted:Well, my point was that you could keep everything else and have Aiden be a "the ends justify the means" anti-hero and it would work. Probably better to make him more conflicted about his family but if they were pushing Blume as the primary antagonist it'd be easy enough to make a scenario where ctOS is a threat to his sister and Jack. Like, you know, dropping Damien and having the threats against his family come from Blume after he's spent a good chunk of a year screwing over ctOS. I mean seriously, given the Batman comparisons (though I'd argue Green Hornet is the better metaphor), how did they miss the most basic of the secret identity driven plotlines?
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Jan 5, 2015 12:24
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Astro Nut posted:Like, you know, dropping Damien and having the threats against his family come from Blume after he's spent a good chunk of a year screwing over ctOS. I mean seriously, given the Batman comparisons (though I'd argue Green Hornet is the better metaphor), how did they miss the most basic of the secret identity driven plotlines? Yeah, having Damien as a secondary antagonist kind of just splits the hate focus.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:59
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i picture some sort of middle manager looming over the writer's room screaming "make it more personal, Personal, PERSONAL"
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Jan 5, 2015 17:40
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I just got to 10b. They really did not think to properly gate off the 'unreachable' island, did they?
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Jan 6, 2015 00:32
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Gul Banana posted:i picture some sort of middle manager looming over the writer's room screaming "make it more personal, Personal, PERSONAL" In that case we could and should have had it so that we know it's Lucky Quinn from the start (it's pretty obvious to the audience anyway) and the trick is we just need to find out how to get to him, since the guy is always mobile, protects his personal data very well and refuses to have an online presence (in other words, he's immune to ctOS because he's OLD-FASHIONED). For the scene where we meet Quinn for the first time and he kills a guy right in front of us, so Aiden doesn't look like a Cutscene Incompetent, there's one easy fix: have a third goon right outside Aiden's car door, pointing a gun at his head through the window to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid. Quinn kills the thief, then notices how Aiden was ice-cold the entire time (or at least, good at hiding his fear). Quinn says that he punishes incompetence but rewards people who keep cool under pressure, so he's going to let you go on the promise that he'll have further work for you in the future. And that his package he just received is going to make life much easier for him. So Aiden just helped his worst nightmare and has to live with it for now because there's no other way. Another thing this game is sorely lacking: diversity. Way too many white men, if this is going to be cyberpunk in the slightest we need wildly diverse ethnicities and people of all genders here. And for a supposed Robin Hood we have no way of HELPING random people too, like slipping money into the bank accounts of people who are going to have cancer surgery or something.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:56
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Speedball posted:And for a supposed Robin Hood we have no way of HELPING random people too, like slipping money into the bank accounts of people who are going to have cancer surgery or something. That was something I gradually began to notice too, and question why we couldn't. Like, with all the things you can manipulate, did no-one think about Aiden's capacity to just help a random passerby outside or saving them from assault? Or heck, maybe using the profiler to pick out people with possible problems in their lives (I mean, it can apparently predict crimes in advance), with Aiden then stepping in to help them out. Or the facial recognition to find missing persons.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:05
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Speedball posted:And for a supposed Robin Hood we have no way of HELPING random people too, like slipping money into the bank accounts of people who are going to have cancer surgery or something. Now I'm remembering that if you visited a location more than anyone else you became king of the area or something stupid like that. Was there any benefit to doing that?
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Jan 6, 2015 01:41
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Astro Nut posted:That was something I gradually began to notice too, and question why we couldn't. Like, with all the things you can manipulate, did no-one think about Aiden's capacity to just help a random passerby outside or saving them from assault? Or heck, maybe using the profiler to pick out people with possible problems in their lives (I mean, it can apparently predict crimes in advance), with Aiden then stepping in to help them out. Or the facial recognition to find missing persons. They really really could have given him some way to redeem himself, even in small ways. But ehhhh thats not edgy.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:03
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...I just got to episode 13. They designed and programmed a goddamn spider tank?! Edit: You know what? This game should have been the origin for a supervillain. Seriously, Aiden's got everything you need to be the foil of a high moral hero - access to seemingly limitless finances and resources (albeit through endless capacity to steal them), contacts throughout the criminal underground, and a tragic backstory that explains but does not truly justify his criminal ways. I need a sequel where I can punch him with Superman Expy #971 Double Edit: Having reached 14, and regarding 'why do people help Aiden because he says his sister is missing' thing, I suspect that the game is relying on a particular social value that isn't necessarily universal - namely, that family trumps everything. Its something you'll see enough in dramas that there'll be some cousin or sibling or whatever that's gotten on the wrong side of the law too often, but its tolerated (somewhat) because 'family sticks together'. So from certain points of view, Aiden being willing to go so far in the name of his family is seen as understandable (if not wholly justifiable), and thus, reason enough for people to side with him. Slightly related to my point above on how this whole thing could work as a supervillain origin, is that many critics and fans like to praise when a supervillain has some kind of family bond that motivates their action, because that (somehow) justifies it to people. Like, Mr Freeze may have become a lot more sympathetic due to having lost a wife, but that shouldn't suddenly make it okay for him to threaten innocent people who happen to be in the proximity of his target (which he did in the exact episode where that retcon was introduced). Astro Nut fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 15:10
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Astro Nut posted:That was something I gradually began to notice too, and question why we couldn't. Like, with all the things you can manipulate, did no-one think about Aiden's capacity to just help a random passerby outside or saving them from assault? Or heck, maybe using the profiler to pick out people with possible problems in their lives (I mean, it can apparently predict crimes in advance), with Aiden then stepping in to help them out. Or the facial recognition to find missing persons. If you listen to Aiden's audio logs, he's been dealing with severe anger issues his entire life. From the first time the random vigilante activity's introduced, it's less a method by which Aiden can Protect His City and very obviously a way for him to work off some of his anger in a relatively constructive direction. It's another way in which he's basically a thirteen-year-old boy with some really amazing toys.
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Jan 7, 2015 18:09
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Wow. Everything about that scene in the club was amazing, in that it was amazingly bad. 1) Nicholas Crispin shows up at the club without his guards, wearing a baseball cap, trenchcoat, jeans and sneakers in a club where everyone else is in formal wear. NOT SUSPICIOUS AT ALL. (Also his coat has the Vigilante symbol creased into the back  )2) Crispin, well known by the staff and clientele for being a sick bastard who gets off on torturing and killing women, spends all of one minute with his specially-prepared Poppy Surprise and leaves her completely unharmed and untouched. Yet somehow, he was so very pleased by the encounter, he immediately starts making arrangements to purchase her from Quinn! 3) Aiden gives Poppy his actual last name. Sweet Zombie Jesus on a pogo stick. Gee, I sure hope nobody decides to ask her what the hell went on with Mr. One Minute Wonder there! I'm sure she'll be able to make up convincing answers and definitely won't be coerced into giving up the name you told her, a name you share with the loving family you've spent the entire game trying to protect.
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Jan 8, 2015 08:05
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Considering most of the slaves are apparently drugged into submission I am also surprised Poppy had the will to attack Aiden when she thought he was going to eat her.
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Jan 8, 2015 08:08
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Episode 15 (Polsy): Sex and violence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb5w0paFvws&hd=1 Technically, in this episode we DO try and help someone. Aiden claims he'll send help to the trafficked women. He never ends up doing it - too busy killing several dozen people - but the cops are drawn by the shootout, so... better than nothing?
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Jan 8, 2015 18:59
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Worth pointing out that Enforcers are 'weak' to explosives. So Grenade launcher solves them. And most problems. Only hassle is maximum loadout of 12 shells ish.
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Jan 8, 2015 19:47
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Most things are weak to explosives, it's kinda hard to be resistant to explosives without being resistant to everything else 
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Jan 8, 2015 21:10
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Gul Banana posted:Episode 15 (Polsy): Sex and violence. This level kinda pissed me because of the forced lovely stealth element. You should have been able to shoot up the buyers or at least shoot your way out.
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Jan 8, 2015 21:38
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I thought there was something about his sister originally supposed to be his wife in the first draft and that's why everything that's really creepy now when they're siblings exists.
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Jan 8, 2015 21:49
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Gul Banana posted:Technically, in this episode we DO try and help someone. Aiden claims he'll send help to the trafficked women. He never ends up doing it - too busy killing several dozen people - but the cops are drawn by the shootout, so... better than nothing? This gets a "resolution" if you collect all the briefcases. It's not much of a resolution, Aiden just states that he found all the remaining traffiker files so Poppi should be safe. The end. We never actually talk to Poppy ever again after this part, mind. Interestingly, the last briefcase mission has you subdue Joseph DeMarco, who was a prominent character in the W_D trailer. Here, he appears a few times, but is never actually featured in the story in any major way. ...I guess that's not that interesting, is it?
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Jan 8, 2015 21:54
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So a thought has occured to me. Pierce is trying to play himself as a vigilante by doing what he perceives as good for the city. But most if not nearly all of his actions especially when it comes to hacking seem to cause some kind of damage to it. For example on multiple occasions you screw with stoplights in order to cause car accidents to stop those that are following you be it people just doing their jobs i.e. the cops, knocking out power to entire city blocks and destroying steam lines which in turn cause damage to the roads just to name a few. In any real world situation no matter what good he has done, the local government would most likely have branded him a terrorist and you would have the military come in and try to stop him especially with as wide spread as the havoc he seems to be causing is. Even batman who is the model vigilante doesn't cause this much destruction to the city he protects. That's usually done by the bad guys. So in essence Gul Banana is right, Aiden Pierce is a batman villain but since the story is told from his perspective and he can't be made to look like that and we never get to see his comeuppance for all the millions of dollars worth of damage he's done to the city in the name of finding his sister and killers of his neice. The thing it actually might have been a cool idea to have the story be about a twisted individual such as Aiden Pierce who is so delusional that he thinks he's the good guy but have the overall actions of the normal citizens and local government show that he isn't a good guy. Aiden is so caught up in his delusions due to the death of his neice that he can't see that what he is doing is wrong. Which is basically how it is anyway.
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Jan 8, 2015 23:49
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Nice video. I never picked up this game because it set off too many alarm bells in my head, and when the negative feedback came, I told myself 'yeah I'm not wasting my time with that.' As a native of Chicago, that generic-rear end stadium at the beginning made me more upset than anything else in that particular episode (maybe I've been desensitized to schizo protagonists  ). If you're going to the trouble of basing the setting of a game on a real location, than for gently caress sake use it's landmarks! Playing hipster-Batman inside Wrigley Field would have been a hell of an opener, And if you have to make a tweek to the layout for gameplay, just say it's post-renovation or something.Just another piece of evidence that the game was designed by a committee of suits who probably never went to a baseball game (and the Expos leaving is no excuse-buy them back yourself if you missed them so badly for christsake!). So that's your rant from SAS*. EDIT: On a more general note, I find it interesting that Aiden is a bereaved Uncle, not a bereaved Dad. If the game were more intelligent I can see a point being made of Aiden not wanting to deal with the hassle of raising a kid but still wanting all the benefits, but I'm guessing that was also made as some marketing decision to not 'put anyone off' or something stupid. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 03:21
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SirPhoebos posted:As a native of Chicago, that generic-rear end stadium at the beginning made me more upset than anything else in that particular episode (maybe I've been desensitized to schizo protagonists Actually to be fair Ubisoft said why a lot of big landmarks don't show in the game. It's all due to trademarks and copyrights. You can actually trademark the appearance of a building. EDIT: \/ Some landmarks have copyrights so strict you can't take a bloody photo of them. http://www.joystiq.com/2014/05/28/why-you-cant-visit-soldier-field-in-watch-dogs/ here's the article I was looking for. The copyright stuff is talked about in the second half. For how crazy copyrights get: GTA V had to patch in a changed statue as the parody one was too close to the real thing to possibly violate fair use. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 03:26
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Mokinokaro posted:Actually to be fair Ubisoft said why a lot of big landmarks don't show in the game. It's all due to trademarks and copyrights. You can actually trademark the appearance of a building. Huh, how specific do those trademarks get?
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Jan 9, 2015 03:30
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I got this for $10 and actually had some fun with it since I had bottom of the barrel expectations. The last mission is just godawful, though. Ruined the entire game for me.
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Jan 9, 2015 07:58
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So I've actually had a thought about this game. I keep hearing that Aiden is trying to be Batman...but he's not really Batman. In fact he's the opposite. He is the Punisher, with a phone that has a Minority Report App. Honestly the only difference between him and the Punisher, is the fact that the Punishers family was all killed as prevention to witnesses of a mob hit, and not because the Punisher was actively loving with people he shouldn't gently caress with. And he only started going banana split vigilante crazy when the cops denied him the chance at justice because of how deep they were in the mafia's pocket. Also he's a douchebag that even though stealing from high profile people's bank accounts got his family killed in the first place, he's still loving doing it. Although I almost feel like this is just for the sake of gameplay mechanics to buy weapons because they tripled the prices on half of those non-military grade guns. Mokinokaro posted:http://www.joystiq.com/2014/05/28/why-you-cant-visit-soldier-field-in-watch-dogs/ here's the article I was looking for. The copyright stuff is talked about in the second half. For how crazy copyrights get: GTA V had to patch in a changed statue as the parody one was too close to the real thing to possibly violate fair use. This is also probably why most GTAs and clones are just modeled after different sections of New York, so they don't get hosed by copyrights when they already know how far they can go...most of the time.
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Jan 10, 2015 16:52
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Oh, so it's Punisher you want? Episode 16 (Polsy): Eliminate all enemies -- Eliminate all enemies -- Eliminate all enemies -- My destiny is to kill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKHdriSIJrk&hd=1
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Jan 12, 2015 13:58
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So, the game actually has another way of "non-lethal" takedown. When you shoot enemy in the knees, the XP thingie will tell you "Neutralized" instead of "Kill", which is the way you are supposed to take down the cops. How hosed up that is, I don't have to say? e: Also, you should have saved the trouble Gul, the game assumes you kill them anyway, even when you beat them all with your baton. Michaellaneous fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 14:08
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TCat posted:This is also probably why most GTAs and clones are just modeled after different sections of New York, so they don't get hosed by copyrights when they already know how far they can go...most of the time. Exactly. They change the affected buildings enough to not cross the copyright line (though sometimes it's not enough as the one statue that got patched in gta v shows. ) It's also why gta doesn't have sport stadiums that resemble any real life ones. Fun fact many of the trademarks cover even photography. You cannot, by copyright law, publish a photo of the Eiffel Tower (but only pictures taken at night apply) or the interior of Notre Dame without the proper licensing.
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Jan 12, 2015 14:32
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Nalesh posted:Most things are weak to explosives, it's kinda hard to be resistant to explosives without being resistant to everything else Fun fact: the grenade launcher is a stealth weapon. Enemies will not be able to find you if you kill via the grenade launcher. Use this information wisely.
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Jan 12, 2015 14:33
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So the M79 in far cry 4 is just carrying on fine ubisoft tradition then.
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Jan 12, 2015 14:54
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Michaellaneous posted:So, the game actually has another way of "non-lethal" takedown. When you shoot enemy in the knees, the XP thingie will tell you "Neutralized" instead of "Kill", which is the way you are supposed to take down the cops. As opposed to MGS series where you have tranquilizers, rubber slugs, sleep gas and rocket launchers that shoot sleeping gas.
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Jan 12, 2015 15:54
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Spec Ops: The Line is hamfisted and kind of obnoxious, but this is an industry that has the good guys actually using white phosphorus and saying their victims deserve it, or wedging a shard of glass in a person's mouth and uppercutting them on the chin, or hundreds of other examples of supposedly good people behaving monstrously, including everything in this game. There needed to be a high-budget game that says that behaving monstrously makes performing good impossible. Better, subtler, more realistic games could follow from that, but it's a start. I wouldn't say that this game's trying the same kind of thing. It's just the typical modern game writing of trying to eat all the cake in the world simultaneously. Pretend to confront the lead character's values, end scene, now back to your constant violence. It's like how they wanted to have sex slavery in their game for mysterious reasons, but made no effort to make it work in context. The game's narrative is stuck in faux Chicago where slaves are largely illegal immigrants and never exported and dozens of slavers would never group together in the same room and so on, but they really wanted to eat that cake so they did it anyway. And if you're upset it's all right, you can eradicate sex slavery in your video game by murdering everybody. If you don't care that's alright too. Just please don't be mad at them. They wouldn't know what to do if you thought they took a political position on anything.  The reinforcements do come no matter what. The Watch Dogs wiki says "Note: Don't bother with non-lethal approach (unless you want to challenge yourself) - the game assumes you've killed all enemies anyway." But of course, it would have been less satisfying if you had done it and it actually reflected your play style, as you wouldn't really be defying the game.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:05
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WaltherFeng posted:As opposed to MGS series where you have tranquilizers, rubber slugs, sleep gas and rocket launchers that shoot sleeping gas. Rocket launchers that shoot sleeping gas and attach a balloon to them! Part of the brilliance of MGS games is you have a lot of non-standard uses for standard items. If Hideo Kojima had made Watch_Dogs, try to imagine all the kooky poo poo he would have come up with instead of a remote-control use button.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:29
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We still need that porn-magazine-attached-to-a-fishing-reel in a MGS game.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:11
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The Wizard of Oz posted:Spec Ops: The Line is hamfisted and kind of obnoxious, but this is an industry that has the good guys actually using white phosphorus and saying their victims deserve it, or wedging a shard of glass in a person's mouth and uppercutting them on the chin, or hundreds of other examples of supposedly good people behaving monstrously, including everything in this game. There needed to be a high-budget game that says that behaving monstrously makes performing good impossible. Better, subtler, more realistic games could follow from that, but it's a start. Honestly, its kind of the negative end of the power fantasy/wish fulfilment/player agency/whatever you want to call it that many feel video games are supposed to provide, versus trying to create a framework and narrative to contextualise all that. Add in the dissonance you often see in video game players - since they're 'just playing video games' - and you get an increased drive to try and push the boundaries of what you can include, out of an industry - or at the very least, numerous developers within the industry - that doesn't necessarily understand how to handle that. That 'Hatred' game that's scheduled to come out this year is basically the ultimate culmination of that: Since so many games are built on the notion of the player being 'badass' because they can do whatever they want and hurt whoever they want in a fashion that would otherwise be unacceptable by any sane society, why not go full hog on such a concept? Of course, I plan to spend as much time playing Hatred as I've spent in Australia, so that more than colours my views. (I have never been outside of Europe)
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Jan 12, 2015 20:15
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Spec Ops is definitely hamfisted and preachy, but I kind of warmed up to it after seeing how little self-awareness most modern FPSs have. A good example is Homefront, with Connor Morgon (if you think Aiden is bad ahahahahaha) but CoD/MoH have this too. Spec Ops definitely succeeds in actually showing the consequences of your actions, especially given how monstrous they usually are.The Wizard of Oz posted:The reinforcements do come no matter what. The Watch Dogs wiki says "Note: Don't bother with non-lethal approach (unless you want to challenge yourself) - the game assumes you've killed all enemies anyway." But of course, it would have been less satisfying if you had done it and it actually reflected your play style, as you wouldn't really be defying the game. Keep in mind there are certain targets you need to take down non-lethally. And I'm not sure that you can neutralize them either.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:26
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Mokinokaro posted:Exactly. They change the affected buildings enough to not cross the copyright line (though sometimes it's not enough as the one statue that got patched in gta v shows. ) It's also why gta doesn't have sport stadiums that resemble any real life ones. So I got a question: why don't these copyright rules seem to apply to films? John Hughes pretty much filmed all of Cook and Manhattan County during his career and I never heard about him running into trouble with copyrights
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Jan 12, 2015 20:29
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SirPhoebos posted:So I got a question: why don't these copyright rules seem to apply to films? John Hughes pretty much filmed all of Cook and Manhattan County during his career and I never heard about him running into trouble with copyrights Iirc it has something to do with actually recreating the building in question. Movies are exempt in a sense as the buildings just happen to be part of the scenery and not the focus in most shots. Now if you say have major story events around a particular landmark you might have to license it.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:34
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