Board Game Thread 4e: The Call of Catan

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S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Crackbone posted:

Vlaada still Board Game God, universe continues as planned.

Unfortunately, the universe is currently flying through an asteroid field. Hold onto your butts.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2014 17:12

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 00:40

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

PerniciousKnid posted:

Need a gift recommendation for a coworker: ideas for games he can play with his 6 and 10 year old sons. He already has Ticket to Ride and Small World, but complains that TtR is too slow. They started playing a variant where first to complete three tickets wins. I was thinking maybe Forbidden Desert, but maybe there's too much QBing (he's complained about that before).

He mentioned that they play Monopoly Jr. together, and this cannot stand. (The boys at least made up some rules for attacking properties you land on to spice things up, so on some level they understand it sucks.)

King of New York/Tokyo, Carcassonne, Forbidden Island would be better than desert here I think, Nuts, Poo, Hey That's My Fish!

# ¿ Dec 16, 2014 18:13

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Star Realms is pretty much strictly better because the game will be over faster, so your luck actually gets the chance to even out.

e: That being said, the blob synergy bonuses seem way, way better than everyone elses.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 07:44

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:

Galaxy trucker on android is teaching me I got some of the rules wrong too!

Anything in particular? I love GT but it seems like my plays of it are infrequent enough that I'm always misremembering something.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 07:11

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:

Apparently when putting together your ship, any piece already in place is fixed and new pieces have to match all connections. I always played it as you only had to match one, but this lead to hilarious events of ships falling apart after one hit that I thought was a feature.

Oh, yeah. That's... definitely the first thing I teach to everyone :v:

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 08:17

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Yeah I'll agree with pretty much all of that. I like Sentinels a lot, I love the art and I think it pretty much nails the aesthetic, but I've also gotten pretty bored with it and I'm going to be selling mine as soon as I can find someone to buy it.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2014 21:00

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

OmegaGoo posted:

I stand by my statement that Ad Astra is a "fixed" Catan... minus a couple of the stupid artifacts.

Too bad it seems to be out of print.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2014 22:18

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

*rolls dice, gets nothing*
"Anybody wanna trade X for Y?"
"Nope, I need that resource."
"Okay."

times like 20

# ¿ Dec 23, 2014 23:36

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Deviant posted:

I learned how to play Chez Geek from he and his wife. They're quite nice.

But he makes some bad games.

He also really hates the fact that he's most well known for Munchkin, a game that he knows is poo poo and doesn't like.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2014 20:56

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Ropes4u posted:

But he sold out to the mighty dollar and produced it anyway.

FE: I would to cause $$$$

Same. I'm surprised he hasn't used that to just... make other, better games though. But I know their #1 priority is keeping Munchkin poo poo in stock.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2014 22:18

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Tekopo posted:

Legendary Encounters is a guilty pleasure of mine. It kind of works in that it is full co-op, but in terms of a proper deckbuilder it is a bad game.

I think it's a really solid start to coop deckbuilders, I'm interested to see what else ends up coming out.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 19:33

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Merauder posted:

Shadowrun Crossfire is a recently released co-op DBG as well, but I haven't heard much about it aside from there's apparently a campaign mode of sorts. I believe it saw a bunch of long delays in releasing and a lot of the hype around it kind of fell flat once it finally hit shelves (at least locally this has been the case, I don't think my FLGS has sold a single copy), so might be why no one is talking about it/comparing the two.

I'm aware of it, but I haven't heard anything good about it. It hasn't sold much at all where I work.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 20:24

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Samurai Spirit already came out, but they didn't publish enough in the first print run.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 21:13

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

I would've picked it up but we were pretty under allocated, so I gotta wait for another print run. It does look solid though, and seems like it would play relatively quick.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 21:24

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Coup with the expansion plays up to 10.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2014 20:56

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

OmegaGoo posted:

... why would you do this?

Same reason you could play a whole bunch of other 10 player games, but it still wouldn't take that long?

# ¿ Dec 31, 2014 20:58

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

OmegaGoo posted:

I found the the base game to be bad. As in, I felt that after the initial draft of cards, the game was done, and the remaining hour~hour and a half was a waste of time. The expansions did wonders to fix that for me, and now I enjoy the game.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? I also played the base game and was pretty turned off on it but never got the chance to try the expansions.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2015 20:32

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

OmegaGoo posted:

To be honest, not really.

The expansions add a number of cards that actually give you something to do on your turn and special powers that actually give you some tactical choices during the game. I just feel that with JUST the basic cards, it's really just an engine game with no set up time. There's a reason games like Dominion and Agricola tend to end about the time engines get going; setting up the engine is most of the fun, rather than playing it out. The expansions to Seasons add cards that allow you that sense of discovery and creation during the game, rather than being done after drafting.

I feel like I'm spouting nonsense here. It's a distinct possibility that if you didn't enjoy the base game, the expansions won't fix anything. I liked the concept of Seasons, but the base game's execution felt lacking to me.

No, that's exactly the thought I had. Actually playing the core game felt like I was just going through the motions outside of deciding what resources to trade and when, which was entirely dependent on dice rolls from what I remember. I'll try and check out some other reviews though.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2015 22:41

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

echoMateria posted:

If "running away helpless from horrors" is what you seek, there are games like Level 7 [Escape] that does it. But everyone hates that game. Maybe others can recommend an alternative?

I don't think there's a single horror game out there like that that is good, and that's sad.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2015 21:44

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

rchandra posted:

So often, they seemed to be answering a previous or future question - for example bringing "David Bowie flying in on a tiger made of lightning" back in time would be a fine way to convince people you are a god.

That is every game of Apples to Apples I've ever played.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2015 06:04

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Yomi has a pretty active competitive scene and has tons of flavor and tons of replayability. Battlecon has tons of flavor and replayability but I don't think it really has a developed competitive scene anywhere.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2015 08:07

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Is there any difference between Dungeon Lords retail and the anniversary edition from the KS?

# ¿ Jan 12, 2015 05:22

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Magnetic North posted:

Oh my god, please tell me I've been reading the Tumblr thread too long and I can no longer tell the difference between a troll post and a real one. But, on the off chance this isn't a troll and I'm talking to some sort of sentient lichen permeating the pages of a cheeto-stained comic book draped over an unplugged keyboard, let me try and work with this metaphor:

You see, the prominent people in board game reviewing aren't actually the smartest and most worthy of that position: that would be the equivalent of Batman, the hero we deserve. He watched his parents get cut down in The Game Of Life and now has a Monopoly on pain. Only thematically rich and mechanically sound board games dare show their faces in Gotham. Unfortunately, just like in 52, Batman is absent.

Instead, those heroes are more like your friendly neighborhood Spiderman. Peter Parker got his powers entirely by chance when bitten by a radioactive spider. Well, our board game reviewing heroes also got where they are in part by good fortune, or at least partly by means other than just their game design knowledge. In this case, they got it because of their ability to make the content that works within YouTube's system. For Rahdo, it's his gift of gab so he makes entertaining videos and gets subscribers. For Rodney Smith, it's his commitment to excellence and neutrality and that garners subscribers. For Tom Vasel, it's just a pure numbers game: enough content and eyeballs will accrue subscribers. For SUSD, it's probably a little of everything. (Yes, a Fantastic Four metaphor might be more apt here, but let's go with this one.)

So, these board game reviewers are our street level heroes: they might not be the best or most righteous, but they'll do what they can to keep your wallets safe. Still, Spidey has ways of doing things, which the public doesn't always agree with. J. Jonah Jameson is one of them, a newspaper editor of The Daily Bugle. In this metaphor, JJJ is represented by SA board game grognards: old, crotchety, self absorbed, constantly seeking to destroy the 'menace' of Spiderman.

So, who does Spiderman fight? Doctor Octopus, The Green Goblin, et cetera. These are guys that pose a threat to the public good, but just aren't big enough to threaten anything more than that. These villains represent games are the bad, cheap drek that publishers churn out that an unsuspecting citizen might find has robbed them of their money. Harm can be avoided so long as Spiderman's there to help.

But what happens when Carnage shows up? In this case, Carnage represents Munckin: a bad game that continues to spawn other even worse games. Well, Spidey just can't fight him on his own: Carnage is far too strong and awful. He has to call in help from more powerful people. He could call up Iron Man. Tony Stark has no super powers, but instead of training his mind and body to perfection as Batman did, he drinks a lot of alcohol and uses his engineering prowess to build power suits that lets him fight crime. In this metaphor, this is Wil Wheaton of TableTop: still lacking the raw qualifications to be the true hero, but made more powerful with resources. Unfortunately for Spiderman, that's not always an option: Tony Stark is likes to do his own thing, and his own thing usually involves keeping Stark Industries afloat more than it does protecting the public from small-time crime.

If Iron Man's not answering Peter's calls, there are others. Maybe Doctor Strange or even Doctor Doom. The thing is that heroes of this power who can change reality at will aren't really on the same scale as Batman or Spiderman. These reality shapers don't represent game reviewers but rather well respected game designers. (Let's say Richard Garfield is Doctor Strange (duh) and Vlaada Chv�til is Doctor Doom. That'd be especially appropriate for this thread since everyone loves him so much he apparently never fails, and if he does it was really a Doombot.) The hope would be to get them to talk trash about bad games like Munchkin to hopefully exterminate the problem. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But what if something even worse happened? What if Spiderman had to fight Galactus? Spiderman simply cannot fight the power cosmic. Galactus is as old as time and can never die. Those forces that survived the chaotic beginnings cannot be defeated. In this metaphor, Galactus is Cosmic Encounter: It's simply too old and too powerful to be defeated at this point. It's evergreen, even if it's awful. Also, let's say it turns out that Spiderman thinks Galactus is a cool guy with a sweet purple hat and he becomes the Herald of Galactus. So, Spiderman shows up but instead of saying, "All that you know, is at an end" he says, "Forty dollars will be teleported away from your pockets. In exchange, Galactus offers you endless replayability of this shallow gameplay and the ability to generate mirth between your friends." Would that really be so irresponsible of Spiderman?

Anyway, for those of you who don't need elaborate superhero metaphors, I think this thread is waaay too hard on reviewers for their likes and dislikes. These people are not prominent because they have PhDs in Mathematics: they're prominent because they fit into the systems of popularity on Youtube and to a lesser extent BGG. Just listen to what they have to say and their reasons why, then consider if those reasons would hold water to you. If the rationale does not meet your satisfaction, then hold off on any purchases. If it does, then give them all your bitcoins.

Cosmic Muffet? Is that you? You need to see a loving doctor, man.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2015 07:45

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Gutter Owl posted:

(You can induce an immediate headache in most BattleCON players by asking a rules question about the "Pulse" special action.)

Trigger warning that poo poo, ugh :negative:

# ¿ Jan 16, 2015 17:45

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

For those of you who care about Yomi

http://www.sirlin.net/posts/sirlin-games-announces-complete-yomi-release-schedule

All 20 Yomi 2.0 characters will be released through July.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 07:46

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Why in the gently caress has someone not mixed Dominions and Ascensions style of market places together? Or have they just done so and I have not played this game? A small number of rotating cards on the board that changes based on the number of players + a set supply of cards to choose from.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 06:58

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

The End posted:

Ascension has Heavy Infantry, Mystics and Cultists always available for spending your resources on.
Arctic Scavenger is a fixed market but has the Junk pile and contested resources to spice up your deck.
Eminent Domain has the regular role cards and a market of technologies (which are basically kingdom cards).

These aren't really what I mean, although I haven't played Arctic Scavengers but I haven't heard great things about that. The Ascension example is especially bad.

Broken Loose posted:

You're thinking of Thunderstone, whose creators touted it as the "Dominion-killer" and claimed the problems of Dominion were that (A) they literally couldn't buy anything they wanted and win with any deck and (B) there wasn't enough killing. Thunderstone was awful and the only reason why I remember it better is because Ascension is literally a worse version of it.

The way Thunderstone works:
You have a main supply of cards that can be bought with Gold. There are also character cards in this supply.
You have a rotating market of monsters to be killed. In order to kill a monster you have to use an Attack resource on cards (or possibly Magic Attack), and you also need to provide a Light resource or suffer a price inflation based off a monster's position in the market.
Monsters killed are worth VP and are added to your deck. They also may provide Gold/Attack or can be used as Action cards.
The game ends when the Thunderstone is either collected or reaches the front of the market. The Thunderstone is a massively +VP relic that is shuffled into the bottom cards of the monster deck.
Killing monsters grants Experience which can be used to upgrade your character cards without having to purchase them in the supply.

The game was poorly balanced (a given, since the creators touted "losing to better players" as a downside of Dominion), long as gently caress, had multiple clashing resources that screwed you over, featured a high luck element, and overall wasn't very good. It was improved in Thunderstone Advance by tightening the game's balance (years of playtesting lets you understand things better, huh? what a shocker) and by allowing players to sacrifice a turn to topdeck cards from their hand which reduced the resource clash somewhat.

Then Ascension was like "this needs to be more random, VP needs to be scored outside of your deck, and there needs to be unrestricted action chains left and right."

Yeah gently caress that. Thunderstone always looked like garbage to me. I guess I'm kind of envisioning a small pool of rotating cards available for purchase with a much larger Dominion style stable of options always available, just, like, actually loving playtested? Maybe have the randomized card deck get switched out once or twice per game based on turn number to mix things up?

I mean the concept certainly isn't impossible but gently caress, man, it just seems like nobody wants to put the actual work on on a deck builder. I need to buy Puzzle Strike.

S.J. fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jan 18, 2015

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 08:10

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

I dunno if Watch it Played is hated around here or not, but they've started doing Yomi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8yb0C9yZBM

# ¿ Jan 20, 2015 17:25

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

echoMateria posted:

Nothing is "hated around here". We are not a hive mind that share the same opinions.

Not to mention that Rodney there is a goon that posts here once in a while.

Yeah I've been posting here for a while, I'm aware we're not a loving hive mind :rolleyes:

. There is LOTS of poo poo that is hated around here, though, usually with good reason!

Although there's no way I would've known Rodney is a goon, that's pretty cool.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2015 17:53

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Mage Knight isn't even remotely anything like a dungeon crawler

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 19:52

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Gamers smell bad enough, why would you do that? Ugh

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 21:30

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Sistergodiva posted:

I'm in Sweden, but I called my FLGS and they said they can't take it back since they can't sell it again since it's opened. I'm sure I could pull consumer law stuff on their rear end, but I really like the store and the people who work there and I play there a lot.

Just kinda sucks that the gf was really psyched for a new co-op game and we had planned to play it tonight. Hopefully the extra cards arrive soonish.

That's how we do it too, here in the US. If there's a problem with a product after it's opened, we'll only take it back if it's GW, because they're the only ones who give us a guarantee on crediting us for it.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 22:21

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Mister Sinewave posted:

Wait, do game distributors seriously not cover faulty games? As a store, if you order a dozen of something and one is messed up, you call your distributor and tell them "Hey we checked order #xyz and there is only 11, 1 is damaged - I can't sell that." Then they go "OK send it back and we will credit you/replace/basically RMA it." This is normal isn't it?

It may be that the publisher is like "any damage or missing items we will service directly, do not return to store" which is a thing, but it's not what I think got described. "Buyer Beware all sales final" on sealed retail items seems kinda shady.

They'll replaced product that was damaged in shipping or whatever, sure. That's not what was being described though. There is a difference between that and someone buying something, bringing it home, opening it, and then bringing it back to the store.

Mister Sinewave posted:

Wait, do game distributors seriously not cover faulty games? As a store, if you order a dozen of something and one is messed up, you call your distributor and tell them "Hey we checked order #xyz and there is only 11, 1 is damaged - I can't sell that." Then they go "OK send it back and we will credit you/replace/basically RMA it." This is normal isn't it?

It may be that the publisher is like "any damage or missing items we will service directly, do not return to store" which is a thing, but it's not what I think got described. "Buyer Beware all sales final" on sealed retail items seems kinda shady.

Scyther posted:

It's not "taking 30 minutes out of their workday" if their job is selling games, and the result is making a sale. Being an enthusiast as well as a professional and selling hobbyist items rather than say a broken TV or a hamburger that's missing the onions does not change anything about the basic tenets of customer service.

Sounds like he's right, though? I pretty much guarantee it would take longer for them to get the replacements in themselves than for you to contact the publisher directly, based on my own experience.

S.J. fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 21, 2015

# ¿ Jan 21, 2015 23:54

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

After a customer brings it home and opens it I have no way of knowing if it's faulty or not :shrug:

I'm not defending anything, just explaining the reasoning.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:04

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

The End posted:

And how is the customer supposed to know if it's faulty if they can't take it home and open it? The law favours the consumer, not the retailer (at least in Australia). I hope you're not in retail, you'd get hosed.

As far as I'm aware, and I'm in the US, our distributors are not required to refund us for any merchandise that's faulty unless we catch it before it gets sold, and even then that's only part of their PR. We're not required to take returns. Our policy is that we will do exchanges if you return a product unopened, with the receipt, and within 30 days. Other than that, sales are final. We're not legally required to do anything other than hold to that policy. The only exception we make to that is Games Workshop product because of how their reimbursement policy works. Perhaps if distributors are legally required to reimburse retailers for these products I could understand, but as far as I'm aware they aren't here. I could certainly be wrong about some of this though because it's not something I've looked into.

S.J. fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 22, 2015

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:13

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

The End posted:

Here we go, US Federal law mandates a refund on faulty goods http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/return-policies-and-refunds.html
Swedish law also http://www.iclg.co.uk/practice-areas/commodities-and-trade-law/commodities-and-trade-law-2006/sweden (Section 7.1)

These are pretty universal principles. Your suppliers can state whatever policies they like, but they probably don't hold up to the law.

Like I said, this isn't something I've looked into. :shrug:

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:17

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

The End posted:

Well, then I really hope you're not in retail!

I am in retail. I work at my local game store. That doesn't mean I'm up to date with federal return laws, nor does it mean I need to be. I'm not actually finding info on a federal law that requires refunds or w/e for faulty merchandise though, so if any of you find something, throw a link up please.

S.J. fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 22, 2015

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:21

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

The End posted:

It was mandatory reading for every retail job I'd ever worked. Your store manager/owner is playing with fire, especially if s/he lets you make judgement calls on returns

No one has ever required this of me for any of the retail jobs I've ever had, including JC Penny and other large retailers.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:26

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

esquilax posted:

Your local game store has a policy that is ridiculously anti-consumer, and effectively defrauds its customers.

We used to have a much more liberal policy until people would buy an item from the store, open it, take it home and play it for a week, and then literally come back in and tell us they got their cheaper copy off of Amazon so they'd like to return this now. That was rampant for us for a while and we couldn't keep allowing it.

The End posted:

Maybe the US government is less likely to bitchslap offending businesses than the ACCC? It strikes me as super weird that American businesses are happy for their staff to break the law on their behalf. Then again, I guess there's a real 'let me speak to the manager' mentality, so they only feel compelled to educate higher ups?

No idea to be honest, although that wouldn't surprise me. I'm still kind of looking stuff up atm.

e: This is what I just found at Consumer Reports

quote:

Wrong!
Stores must allow returns.
You forgot to tell your husband that you're giving up golf and taking up the saxophone. Now the store won't take back the clubs he just bought you for Christmas. It's true that retailers generally can adopt any return policy they want as long as it's prominently posted at the point of sale. But if the policy isn't posted, some states impose one. If the product doesn't work or isn't what you ordered, the policy doesn't matter�you have a right to get what you paid for. (More about returns.) Federal law generally gives you three days to cancel some purchases. Some states have similar "cooling off" periods for some sales, such as those involving health-club and home-improvement contracts (but not for new and used car purchase agreements!).

S.J. fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 22, 2015

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:33

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 00:40

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

The End posted:

That's a customer upfront telling you that they changed their mind. You have no obligation on that front. That is also worlds away from 'Hey, I just bought this and half of it is missing.'

Sometimes literally, sometimes not so literally. Again, please don't act like I'm arguing with you here. The kind of situation we're discussing regarding missing pieces is not the reason we changed our policy.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 00:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Game Thread 4e: The Call of Catan

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