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Mehuyael posted:The difference is that in Sonic it's possible to just do the same level again and again to get the flickies. That's bad. If the game wants to give you the option to play it in the dumbest way possible that's cool with me, especially if it has fewer stages.
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Dec 14, 2014 20:29
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As a person who grinds in every RPG and game that allows it, I think it would be nice if less games allowed for it. For instance some RPGs give diminishing returns for killing the same monster or lower level monsters etc' etc'. This cuts out grinding, and in the 2nd case is doubly beneficial since party members who are lagging behind the average level get caught up much faster. If you allow a player to just grind away flickies he's much less likely to explore and enjoy everything every level has to offer.
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Dec 14, 2014 20:33
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LP Sonic Lost World: How Can You Like This Game-Cube Era Grind-Heavy Game?
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Dec 14, 2014 21:06
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Oh cool, not that I don't like Run Button's stuff, but it's nice to see another LP of Lost World by someone who likes the game and knows what they're doing.  I'm also one of the few(?) who genuinely enjoys Lost World, though a lot of agonizing could have been avoided with just a little more hand-holding regarding the parkour button. My first playthrough was a blur of 'I don't know what I'm doing or how I'm doing it, but I just survived a death pit so whatever/awesome'.Mehuyael posted:If you allow a player to just grind away flickies he's much less likely to explore and enjoy everything every level has to offer. But the game does give the player incentive to explore via the Red Rings in each stage? Not everyone's gonna be inclined to do it, of course, but the option is there.
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Dec 14, 2014 22:56
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Mehuyael posted:As a person who grinds in every RPG and game that allows it, I think it would be nice if less games allowed for it. Help, I have no self control and can't stop doing an optional tedious not fun thing. Game looks quite different from anything I'd expected, it seems a bit slow even with someone who knows what they're doing in control. It does look quite fun, but more reminiscent of SMG than anything else I can think of.
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Dec 14, 2014 23:46
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It's funny that you compared this to a Platinum game because I remember when I tried the demo, I went through pretty much the same cycle that I go through with Platinum games, which is 1.) Be really impressed visually, 2.) Fail horribly at the game, 3.) Realize that while there's definitely an interesting game there, it's just not something I'm gonna be able to play. I'm really excited to see a positive LP of the game, 'cause I've seen more than a few negative ones, and maybe a skilled runthrough can really sell me.
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Dec 14, 2014 23:55
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Mehuyael posted:I have seen twenty minutes of this game and I know for certain that I hate everything there will be to see in the game, now let me repeat this to you over and over and explain to you why your differing opinion differs to my opinion over and over and ov You're boring people. A good number of people like the game, including the people LPing it, and have said why. You don't, and you've said why. That sounds like the end of a conversation if I've ever heard one. Despite calling it "Sonic 2007" when the trailers came out, a la Mario Galaxy's release date, I did think it looked pretty cool, and had this on the list for if I ever had money to spare again. Looking forward to another handful of hours of losing all of your rings right at the end like a chump.
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Dec 15, 2014 04:14
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Honestly I think the only serious issues are the poor tutorials and the characterization of the deadly six or whatever the hell they're called. Most other aspects are alright and it's much easier to see that when the person playing actually knows what the gently caress they're doing. That said, the game really is bad at telling you how things work. I spent ages just screwing around playing with the controls before I worked out how the devs expected me to play the game because they sure don't tell you. It would also be nice if they'd find something other than wisps, I like the gameplay things they do but the 'wisp' package is wearing a bit thin.
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Dec 15, 2014 10:46
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Basically my problem with this game is that it looks like a mostly soulless budget title. MassRafTer raved about how Platinum-like the controls are, but it's basically 'you can spin dash and then run and spin dash again!', yeah wow, so what? Even then it doesn't look very fast, certainly not as fast as Unleashed (day), Colors and Generations looked. The character designs show that they were more lazy than going for simple as their style.frozentreasure posted:You're boring people. A good number of people like the game, including the people LPing it, and have said why. You don't, and you've said why. That sounds like the end of a conversation if I've ever heard one. There was a whole LP for the game just a few months ago, I've seen most of the game. Oh, and if there are the red rings to encourage exploration, then here's a thought: block new levels with red rings instead of flickies! It's simple as that (or better yet don't hide necessary levels behind collectibles at all). The flicky counter is completely useless. e: I think I'll stop arguing my side now, there's been too many posts about this. I'll look at the upcoming episodes to see if the game improves in my view. Zanzibar Ham fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 11:49
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Mehuyael posted:There was a whole LP for the game just a few months ago, I've seen most of the game. That really helps your case for going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how much you don't like it, now that we know that an entire LP didn't give you enough time to get everything off your chest or, apparently, give you a solid enough opinion of the game to know whether you'd enjoy watching the game.
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Dec 15, 2014 13:00
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frozentreasure posted:That really helps your case for going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how much you don't like it, now that we know that an entire LP didn't give you enough time to get everything off your chest or, apparently, give you a solid enough opinion of the game to know whether you'd enjoy watching the game. There wasn't much to say since everyone agreed it sucks.
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Dec 15, 2014 13:16
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Mehuyael posted:There wasn't much to say since everyone agreed it sucks. Everyone posting in that thread agreed it sucks. Many, many more people just opted out of that circlejerk once it became clear how much the people playing it were determined to hate it.
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Dec 15, 2014 13:50
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Cryohazard posted:Everyone posting in that thread agreed it sucks. Many, many more people just opted out of that circlejerk once it became clear how much the people playing it were determined to hate it. That's why I abandoned that thread. People forget that these threads tend to become echo chambers that drive off dissenters rather than an accurate depiction of public opinion. Especially given how obnoxious the Sonic fanbase already is about anything made after 1995.
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Dec 15, 2014 13:57
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Geostomp posted:That's why I abandoned that thread. People forget that these threads tend to become echo chambers that drive off dissenters rather than an accurate depiction of public opinion. Especially given how obnoxious the Sonic fanbase already is about anything made after 1995. To be fair the nature of this game makes it really easy to hate. Run Button's problem was that the game never explained anything to them so they had no clue how to play it and they hated the characters so much that they weren't motivated enough to try to find out how to play it; when you don't know how to play the game and poo poo keeps going wrong for reasons beyond your understanding because of that its easy to end up stuck and angry.
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Dec 15, 2014 14:42
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Neruz posted:To be fair the nature of this game makes it really easy to hate. Run Button's problem was that the game never explained anything to them so they had no clue how to play it and they hated the characters so much that they weren't motivated enough to try to find out how to play it; when you don't know how to play the game and poo poo keeps going wrong for reasons beyond your understanding because of that its easy to end up stuck and angry. It's Run Button, even if they had everything explained clearly they'd have no idea what they're doing.
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Dec 15, 2014 14:49
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Mehuyael posted:It's Run Button, even if they had everything explained clearly they'd have no idea what they're doing. But if the game never explains anything at all they never even get the chance; and neither do many other people who play the game.
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Dec 15, 2014 15:36
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You don't like the game. Cool. Noted. Next discussion topic. I never got much into Sonic games, where would be a good starting point and where is bad? Generations seemed like a good hopping in point to me but I haven't tried it.
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Dec 15, 2014 15:37
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Both Colors and Generations were pretty good insert points for new players. I'd say Colors had the more forgiving difficulty curve of the two but if that's not a problem then Generations is the better game.
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Dec 15, 2014 16:29
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Kurieg posted:Both Colors and Generations were pretty good insert points for new players. I'd say Colors had the more forgiving difficulty curve of the two but if that's not a problem then Generations is the better game. Those are pretty safe bets. As much as I liked Unleashed, I know it's very divisive and not at all forgiving due to somewhat clunky controls and often unfair difficulty. Not to mention the Werehog gameplay (which I defend as okay, but the stages were far too long and not at all designed well for it). Stick to either Colors or Generations.
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Dec 15, 2014 16:38
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Yeah, the Werehog sections were basically a competent God of War clone, but the demographic Crossover between God of War and Sonic was way too small for them to have actually expected a positive outcome from that. Combined with the music the werehog sections wore out their welcome way too fast. The daytime sections(and Skyscraper Scamper) are the reasons you play Unleashed, which is what they expanded on with Colors and Generations.
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Dec 15, 2014 17:16
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Honestly the biggest issue with the werehog sections were the maps. They were just way too goddamn big and meandering.
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Dec 15, 2014 17:19
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Circus isn't Breakout. Circus is Circus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxYhzGZo0-Y Also I don't know what you're talking about, because the game does have a lot of tips about a bunch of the things you say the game won't tell you, but you have to press the button on the gamepad when the prompt comes up for it. It's easy to ignore, and that's probably the best way to go about putting a hint system in the game. Of course, the only correct way to play this game is to constantly hold Y everywhere you go, so that makes it all pointless.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:26
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But making it TOO easy to ignore when the game is actually more complicated than "hold right/boost and jump" is problematic and draws the Platinum game comparison. I don't think that comparison is about saying this game is as ball-bustingly amazing as Revengeance or Wonderful 101, just that it's decently complicated to play and doesn't explain itself well enough for the bulk of players to get it. I haven't watched the video yet but I'm eager to both because I just marathoned the '06 LP (which was hilarious) and because I too tuned out of Run Button's thread because they clearly weren't having fun with it.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:59
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Mehuyael posted:Basically my problem with this game is that it looks like a mostly soulless budget title. MassRafTer raved about how Platinum-like the controls are, but it's basically 'you can spin dash and then run and spin dash again!', yeah wow, so what? Even then it doesn't look very fast, certainly not as fast as Unleashed (day), Colors and Generations looked. The character designs show that they were more lazy than going for simple as their style. Lol you watched a runbutton lp
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Dec 15, 2014 21:21
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Cheez posted:Circus isn't Breakout. Circus is Circus. I've never heard of Circus. Sorry Circus! The problem with the tips is they pop up and because you are playing you don't want to look down at the gamepad at that moment. I like the gamepad but it can be difficult to go from screen to screen.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:30
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corn in the bible posted:Lol you watched a runbutton lp When you're disabled and stuck at home most of the day you can get desperate for entertainment.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:52
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20 Years of Sonic was fun and I genuinely enjoy seeing them fail at Yoshis Island.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:10
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MassRafTer posted:20 Years of Sonic was fun and I genuinely enjoy seeing them fail at Yoshis Island. I usually treat them as a podcast unless it's a game I haven't seen before. Or if it's Sonic 2006 and I'm hoping for some nice schadenfreude.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:15
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So where was that Red Star Ring I missed? Let's go grab that and show off the wall running mechanic: Bonus Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlzOm5KZUcY
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Dec 16, 2014 00:10
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MonsterEnvy posted:This may help you play the game even better. When you do the spin dash if you double tap it and hold it it lasts until you let go. Just re posting this to make sure you see this. I also was not sure if I was correct but I found sources that confirmed it. "Pressing the ZL button activates the Spin Dash. Pressing and holding down the ZL button again will allow Sonic to continuously Spin Dash."
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Dec 16, 2014 01:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Just re posting this to make sure you see this. I also was not sure if I was correct but I found sources that confirmed it. It was posted before so I'm aware, don't worry!
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Dec 16, 2014 02:24
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I tried to like this game a lot, but I felt the design was too scattershot and missed more than it hit. The aesthetics are wonderful and while I liked the whimsy of Colors, it didn't work here for me somehow. Lastly the controls are very stiff feeling, not to mention the poorly explained mechanics like you said. It all added up to an unenjoyable game that I never really felt the need to replay the levels in, which was a real letdown coming off of Colors and Generations. There's stuff to like, but just not enough to overcome the issues. For all it tries to do, it ends up feeling surprisingly dull and never quite seems to understand what it wants to be. I also personally found the Deadly Six to be really, really bad. Nonetheless, kudos for championing the positive aspects on display here. It's no Sonic 06; That'd be the other Wii U Sonic game.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:00
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Cyra posted:Nonetheless, kudos for championing the positive aspects on display here. It's no Sonic 06; That'd be the other Wii U Sonic game. Nah thats just mediocre.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Nah thats just mediocre. Having seen it in action, I'd say Sonic Boom is exceptionally bad. It's bad in ways that impressed me. It takes dedication to get a Sonic game that wrong.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:22
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Glad to see an LP from this perspective, since I feel this is one of those games that you kinda really need to see the issues from both perspectives to have a whole picture of. Once you get how it works, the game can play really well, and you can see what the designers were thinking. Unfortunately, the game is terrible in explaining itself, either with some things that are genuinely important but not explained (anyone who's reached the last few bosses will know what I mean), or the explanation exists, but getting it is pretty counter-intuitive to how people play Sonic games - which is to run right by things - considering most of them are location sensitive. Add into how the physics don't always work right, or some levels are too broken up to be really fluid, and its not hard to see how someone may grow to dislike it. Additional note, but I do think indicates that Lost World didn't necessarily have all its ideas thought out: When the game was released, you originally couldn't gain lives through getting a hundred rings. They had to patch that in. This is the only Sonic game that has made me grind levels where I know I could find extra lives, because before that patch, getting extras was actually kinda difficult.
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Dec 16, 2014 12:40
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chiasaur11 posted:Having seen it in action, I'd say Sonic Boom is exceptionally bad. It's bad in ways that impressed me. It takes dedication to get a Sonic game that wrong. Sonic Boom isn't even a sonic game, it's just a cookie cutter platformer from the PlayStation 2 era with Sonic characters haphazardly thrown in.
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Dec 16, 2014 15:31
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I'd say that does make it a Sonic game.
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Dec 16, 2014 15:39
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Honestly, Lost World looks like a game I would hate. But it's nice to see people enjoying themselves and having fun!
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Dec 16, 2014 15:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:Nah thats just mediocre. I have put about an hour into the game and the rest of it would have to be pretty outstanding to balance it out to "mediocre."
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Dec 17, 2014 00:57
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MassRafTer posted:I have put about an hour into the game and the rest of it would have to be pretty outstanding to balance it out to "mediocre." Why did you buy it?
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Dec 17, 2014 01:01
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