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Soy bean meal to Cuba from the US (facilitated by the Venezuelans) has been growing pretty steadily for the last few years. I wonder how much agribusiness had anything to do with this, I've only heard it mentioned in passing. I know a lot of frozen chicken is going out too.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:40
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US farmers love this because Cuba has an endless hunger for corn and soybean products and shipping them there will be cheap as gently caress.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:47
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So overall what is the takeaway from this? It seems to be a reasonable attempt to redraw some insane borders from the time when the Cold War was at its most likely stage to turn "hot" but well, how bad is Cuba, like as a place? I mean I know MIGF is talking about how it is terrible, and that probably means it is pretty okay, but what is the major problem with the country as it stands? Has it ended its practice of imprisoning people in camps, are there death squads, are the people reasonably happy and is there enough food? How high up the old "hierachy of needs" are most people there? Also, what are the complaints from a realpolitik stand point?
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Dec 19, 2014 20:37
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Josef bugman posted:So overall what is the takeaway from this? Wait, when did I say its terrible? Its a chance for American multinationals to make some loving money. Ain't nothing terrible about that, at all. I'd prefer if the commies gave up first before we make our money. I'll settle for making so much money they're forced to join us and give up.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:40
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Josef bugman posted:
From a U.S. perspective the embargo on Cuba has been a prime example of a dedicated domestic interest group getting its way to the detriment of the country as a whole for decades. Any rational reason for the embargo the U.S. had ended with the cold war. As far as it being a potentially bad place, we have no problem trading and having normal relations with all sorts of incredibly bad places. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Uzbekistan_relations quote:Trade relations are regulated by a bilateral trade agreement, which entered into force January 14, 1994. quote:In FY 2003, the United States provided roughly $87.4 million in humanitarian aid, technical assistance, military-to-military funding, and micro-credit support in Uzbekistan. U.S. assistance grew to approximately $101.8 million in FY 2004, but fell to $92.6 million in FY 2005. These programs were designed to promote market reform and to establish a foundation for an open, prosperous, democratic society. Starting in 2004, the Secretary of State has been unable to certify that Uzbekistan has met its obligations under the bilateral 2002 Strategic Framework Agreement. As a result, U.S. assistance declined to approximately $20 million in FY 2006. quote:Following the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States, Uzbekistan approved of the U.S. Central Command's request for access to an air base, the Karshi-Khanabad airfield, in southern Uzbekistan, to station 1,500 of its armed forces, in exchange for security guarantees and assistance with its own internal terrorism. They boil dissidents alive there. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 20:46
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Josef bugman posted:So overall what is the takeaway from this? Cuba has a remarkably uniform distribution of grinding poverty. You don't see the crushing poverty that exists elsewhere in Latin America, and Cuba is much less violent a place than Honduras or Venezuela or Mexico. It is oppressive though, with CDR snitches on every block, and heavy ideological indoctrination. Bare necessities are guaranteed, along with education and health care. People receive ration books, which allot enough rice and beans not to starve. Eggs are a luxury, and meat a very rare indulgence for those without access to hard currency. You'll meet pediatricians and lawyers working as bartenders and taxi drivers in tourist areas, as this is the means by which Cubans get their hands on hard currency. Prostitution is rampant - I've never seen anything like it, and I've been to Bangkok and Phnom Penh. First time I was in Havana, my girlfriend and I were drinking in a bar on Paseo Martí. Not thirty seconds after she left for the bathroom, two jineteras swooped down on me, whispering all kinds of decadence that was available for dollars. It looks like a crushingly boring existence. Your basic needs are provided by the state, but little else is available. Cubans don't risk their lives floating 90 miles on innertubes because they are starving. They risk their lives out of boredom.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:51
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Hotel maids working at tourist hotels are some of the most well-off people in Cuba simply because tourists with any class will leave a cash tip for the hotel maid. $10 is barely lunch for me, but it means a lot in Cuba.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:07
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Rand Paul kicking Rubio in the balls over this is hilarious. Between this and his failed immigration policy, Rubio can't still be thinking of running for President, can he? The minute McConnell said he was deferring to Rubio on the issue you knew the fix was in and he was being set up for a huge fall.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:12
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Zeroisanumber posted:Hotel maids working at tourist hotels are some of the most well-off people in Cuba simply because tourists with any class will leave a cash tip for the hotel maid. $10 is barely lunch for me, but it means a lot in Cuba. The basic monthly wage is $12 in nonconvertible pesos. Doctors get the equivalent of $60/month. Ten cash dollars or euro is an enormous windfall for the average Cuban. Last time, I brought several time of sardines to Cuba. I couldn't believe how happy they made people - wound up giving them all away.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:15
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radical meme posted:Rand Paul kicking Rubio in the balls over this is hilarious. Between this and his failed immigration policy, Rubio can't still be thinking of running for President, can he? The minute McConnell said he was deferring to Rubio on the issue you knew the fix was in and he was being set up for a huge fall.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is also why I think the GOP leadership is not going to care much about this move by Obama. They have only made some vague statements against it but nothing else. I figure they will end up not interfering as far as building the embassy and sending the ambassador. Either that or they will let Rubio continue to hang himself on it and step aside. If Rubio were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered, so I fully expect him to run full-speed at this particular sword and act surprised when he impales himself on it.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:53
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radical meme posted:Rand Paul kicking Rubio in the balls over this is hilarious. Between this and his failed immigration policy, Rubio can't still be thinking of running for President, can he? The minute McConnell said he was deferring to Rubio on the issue you knew the fix was in and he was being set up for a huge fall. Rubio thinks he can win, but nobody else does after the immigration debacle.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:Wait, when did I say its terrible? Its a chance for American multinationals to make some loving money. Ain't nothing terrible about that, at all. As in you were saying the country itself is terrible. Also, "Commies"? I thought that went out of fashion in the mid 70's, nevermind now. TheImmigrant posted:Not thirty seconds after she left for the bathroom, two jineteras swooped down on me, whispering all kinds of decadence that was available for dollars. Thank you for the analysis, that makes it sound bad but not, like "Uzbekistan/ anywhere with "Peoples democratic Republic in the name" bad. It also explains why one of my friends from school came back with a swing in his step from visiting Cuba when he was 16 (I am from the UK, so not breaking laws to get there).
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Dec 19, 2014 22:22
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PT6A posted:If Rubio were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered  Just a reminder.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:30
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I agree with literally every one of these tweets. It's not a good feeling.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:35
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Alter Ego posted:I agree with literally every one of these tweets. It's not a good feeling. Known issue with Rand Paul. I think it's called the Five Minute Rule. If you listen to him for less than 5 minutes, he sounds reasonable.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:58
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TheImmigrant posted:Cuba has a remarkably uniform distribution of grinding poverty. You don't see the crushing poverty that exists elsewhere in Latin America, and Cuba is much less violent a place than Honduras or Venezuela or Mexico. It is oppressive though, with CDR snitches on every block, and heavy ideological indoctrination. If anything it would be better if Cuba had both, increased trade and cooperation but also higher standards of living that spread more equally. Cuba is a poor country, and needs political democraticization and a rollback of authoritarianism but it doesn't need shock therapy. The expectation of course is shock therapy and mass privatization is all back of the package, but if anything if the communist party equally distribute profits from trade, it would actually be a much better for a sustainable democracy in the future. It really depends on what the relationship looks like and what the Cuban government does versus what the US demands.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:23
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Alter Ego posted:I agree with literally every one of these tweets. It's not a good feeling. Rand Paul is great at tweet length, but follow his "Free Market Uber Alles" strategy to its logical conclusion and you find yourself in the Gilded Age.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:27
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Ardennes posted:If anything it would be better if Cuba had both, increased trade and cooperation but also higher standards of living that spread more equally. Cuba is a poor country, and needs political democraticization and a rollback of authoritarianism but it doesn't need shock therapy. It would be interesting to see a communist country try to politically liberalize but largely maintain a socialist economy. Apparently Raul released every political prisoner. Sheng-Ji Yang fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 23:55
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Nessus posted:
What a great moment, I would love have had a camera at the RNC or someplace as they realized water boy isn't ready for prime time.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:00
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:It would be interesting to see a communist country try to politically liberalize but largely maintain a socialist economy. I believe one already tried that.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:02
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lothar_ posted:I believe one already tried that. Tried and failed, admittedly Cuba doesn't have the drag of the Cold War (any longer) or ethnic nationalism to content with. If they could pull it off without failing, it would be certainly something to see.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:12
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Cuba is a tin-pit dictatorship awaiting a color revolution. We're making sure that color bleeds red, white, and blue, and is why America needs to end this embargo policy post haste.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:18
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My Imaginary GF posted:Cuba is a tin-pit dictatorship awaiting a color revolution. We're making sure that color bleeds red, white, and blue, and is why America needs to end this embargo policy post haste. The Cuban flag is already red, white, and blue. One thing that will unite Cubans is a desire to remain distinct from the US. It's going to be a shitshow, with exiles returning and laying claims to property, but I can't see Cuba rolling over for the US any time soon. I'm hoping to get down there soon to do some visas, as things shake out.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:30
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TheImmigrant posted:The Cuban flag is already red, white, and blue. Even if they don't mean to, it's inevitable that they become deeply economically entwined with the US. It's less than 700 miles from New Orleans to Havana, which means that everything that Cubans could possibly want from the US can be cheaply floated down the Mississippi by barge and then loaded and shipped in less than a week. Just from a food product standpoint anything that their current trade partners in Europe and Canada do the US can do cheaper and much faster.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:40
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Zeroisanumber posted:Even if they don't mean to, it's inevitable that they become deeply economically entwined with the US. It's less than 700 miles from New Orleans to Havana, which means that everything that Cubans could possibly want from the US can be cheaply floated down the Mississippi by barge and then loaded and shipped in less than a week. Just from a food product standpoint anything that their current trade partners in Europe and Canada do the US can do cheaper and much faster. Miami has a port, too
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Dec 20, 2014 00:49
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Miami has a port, too Yeah, but most of our food products export through New Orleans if they're headed south. The Mississippi is a hell of a highway.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:51
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Zeroisanumber posted:Even if they don't mean to, it's inevitable that they become deeply economically entwined with the US. It's less than 700 miles from New Orleans to Havana, which means that everything that Cubans could possibly want from the US can be cheaply floated down the Mississippi by barge and then loaded and shipped in less than a week. Just from a food product standpoint anything that their current trade partners in Europe and Canada do the US can do cheaper and much faster. Oh, I have no doubt the US will quickly become Cuba's number-one trade partner again.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:51
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TheImmigrant posted:Oh, I have no doubt the US will quickly become Cuba's number-one trade partner again. I'm sure they'll be priced to the stratosphere, but I'm looking forward to buying myself a box of Cuban cigars.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:53
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Zeroisanumber posted:I'm sure they'll be priced to the stratosphere, but I'm looking forward to buying myself a box of Cuban cigars. I'm not a cigar smoker, but my dad was disappointed in the Cohibas I brought back last time. Evidently Cuban cigars are nowhere near as good as what DR produces these days.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:21
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TheImmigrant posted:Oh, I have no doubt the US will quickly become Cuba's number-one trade partner again. They already are (at least for food).
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Dec 20, 2014 01:25
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Interesting that you are actually starting to see distinct positions staked out by Rand Paul and Rubio. But has Hillary managed to duck taking a stand on this yet, and if so, how?
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Dec 20, 2014 01:36
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Zwabu posted:Interesting that you are actually starting to see distinct positions staked out by Rand Paul and Rubio. But has Hillary managed to duck taking a stand on this yet, and if so, how? Hillary has a much easier nomination process and she gains nothing by pinning support in anything that could bite her in the rear end two years before the election. If this had been end of 2015, you would have heard her take a stand. e: Apparently she has said stuff but it's generic "I'm glad one of our boys is back home and we should still talk with Cuba about stuff".
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Dec 20, 2014 01:41
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The Miami Herald is reporting on polling done on age and wave - interesting results, confirming some of my understanding and challenging other parts.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:01
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lothar_ posted:I believe one already tried that. Ok yeah. At least Cuba doesn't have a dozen different subject nationalities and puppets that want nothing to do with it. Hopefully Cuba doesn't suffer a Yeltsin or shock therapy.
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Dec 20, 2014 04:57
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The Warszawa posted:The Miami Herald is reporting on polling done on age and wave - interesting results, confirming some of my understanding and challenging other parts. “They’ve stained the lives of the Cuban people forever.” Keep the dogs chained in the backyard until they learn to not be dogs!
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Dec 20, 2014 05:02
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Ok yeah. At least Cuba doesn't have a dozen different subject nationalities and puppets that want nothing to do with it. Russia would be a very different place if Yeltsin was an actual statesman instead of, well... Boris Yeltsin.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:23
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Damien Cave is a kickass reporter: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/w...WT.nav=top-news The official "line" from the Communist Party here is that they want to become Vietnam or China.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:25
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Omi-Polari posted:Damien Cave is a kickass reporter: I can assure the people they don't want to become China. e: man labor in Cuba will be good pickings for US companies for a while, nice and cheap without the hassle of cross-world shipping.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:22
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I bet they make the best e-cigs.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:31
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