Blue Star posted:So if food addiction is a thing, and we apparently don't have free will, how do people beat these things? Because obviously people DO manage to control addictions and lose weight, so we can't just be completely helpless before our base urges and instincts. Somebody like Berk Berkly would say that you never beat these things and someone who has been obese or overweight ever has less agency than all other human beings, must be constantly restrained by everyone they know, etc. Other people would say that a large part of breaking out of many psychological disorders involves shifting behaviors and patterns of thought, which isn't really compatible with the idea that people lack free will or even that addicts lack free will, but whatever. Changing any habit usually involves a major shift in behavior, but it is possible to change them.
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Dec 22, 2014 03:29
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Well being obese or overweight is the same thing as having a food addiction. Though obviously they can be the result of one. A lot of 1st World obese individuals grew up obese with food and eating habits than lead to or exacerbate it as they grow older. Even then its possible to get them to a healthy weight but the habits they had growing up will always still likely be there with them. Overindulging during holidays or on vacation or during a dark time in their life and poof, that self-control is gone. People have different, "Oh, gently caress it, what the hell..." thresholds. Sometimes people with impulsive or compulsive eating habits become obsessively health-conscious as they over-compensate and trade one problem for another. Berk Berkly fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 03:45
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Effectronica posted:Somebody like Berk Berkly would say that you never beat these things and someone who has been obese or overweight ever has less agency than all other human beings, must be constantly restrained by everyone they know, etc. Which is inherently more difficult with food because literally everyone needs to eat almost all socialising revolves in some way around eating. Excluding yourself from social circles might be necessary but suck for other reasons. it seems unreasonable to expect people without food addiction to not eat in order to not tempt somone
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Dec 22, 2014 04:05
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echinopsis posted:Which is inherently more difficult with food because literally everyone needs to eat almost all socialising revolves in some way around eating. Excluding yourself from social circles might be necessary but suck for other reasons. it seems unreasonable to expect people without food addiction to not eat in order to not tempt somone Yeah, but that assumes that most overeating is due to people eating more at defined meals, which isn't necessarily the case and may well not be the case for many people who overeat. Other habits are easier to break when they're not associated with basic socialization and survival.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:23
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Being overweight is an interesting dilemna. "Normal" people don't eat nothing but Qinoa and kale chips. Salads and a tiny sliver of lean fish. I don't know anyone who eats like that, who isn't already overweight or some sort of Crossfit nutter. On that same tack, I don't see them measuring each serving, or counting every calorie. "Normal" (as in, nomal BMI) people don't have to spend hours every week in the gym to maintain normal body weight. The average person should be a balloon, by that logic. What makes them different than myself? Is it that I don't feel "full" at the right point? Is it the addiction that causes the body to continue to want more? I don't snack, or eat desserts unless on rare occasion. It's only during meals that I eat so much, but I know that logically, my portions are too large for what I need. The problem is that if I don't eat my fill, I get antsy and feel like something is wrong. I feel compelled to eat "just a little more". I'm no blimp, but I'm fat enough to know it could be a problem in the future if something doesn't change. I can still walk all day, and take the stairs (and do, most of the time) and such. I'm not willing to be miserable in life, which is what I feel that the Qinoa and Kale chips lifestyle truly is. Is there a better way to work on the addiction than cold turkey horridness like that?
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Dec 22, 2014 21:16
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Talmonis posted:Being overweight is an interesting dilemna. "Normal" people don't eat nothing but Qinoa and kale chips. Salads and a tiny sliver of lean fish. I don't know anyone who eats like that, who isn't already overweight or some sort of Crossfit nutter. On that same tack, I don't see them measuring each serving, or counting every calorie. "Normal" (as in, nomal BMI) people don't have to spend hours every week in the gym to maintain normal body weight. The average person should be a balloon, by that logic. What makes them different than myself? Is it that I don't feel "full" at the right point? Is it the addiction that causes the body to continue to want more? I don't snack, or eat desserts unless on rare occasion. It's only during meals that I eat so much, but I know that logically, my portions are too large for what I need. The problem is that if I don't eat my fill, I get antsy and feel like something is wrong. I feel compelled to eat "just a little more". Today I've eaten a bowl of oatmeal with honey and nuts, and a nice salad with some crispy fried chickpeas. I think I'll probably have a protein shake and some tamales later, perhaps a sandwich for dinner. I've been lifting weights for 30 minutes, and now I'm going to do 30 minutes of cardio. I do that 2 out of every three days, and above and beyond that I usually walk a few km every day just in the course of my daily life. So, yes, "normal" people do eat reasonably and exercise regularly, you just don't see them doing it because they aren't you. I lost nearly 30 pounds since last February, so it's not like I'm talking out my rear end as someone who's never been overweight. All it took was more exercise and smaller food portions. I didn't cut anything out entirely, even dessert. If you ate small portions of things that tasted good instead of quinoa and kale chips, having a normal diet wouldn't seem like such an imposition.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:52
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PT6A posted:Today I've eaten a bowl of oatmeal with honey and nuts, and a nice salad with some crispy fried chickpeas. I think I'll probably have a protein shake and some tamales later, perhaps a sandwich for dinner. I've been lifting weights for 30 minutes, and now I'm going to do 30 minutes of cardio. I do that 2 out of every three days, and above and beyond that I usually walk a few km every day just in the course of my daily life. So, yes, "normal" people do eat reasonably and exercise regularly, you just don't see them doing it because they aren't you. I lost nearly 30 pounds since last February, so it's not like I'm talking out my rear end as someone who's never been overweight. All it took was more exercise and smaller food portions. I didn't cut anything out entirely, even dessert. Do you really think that the vast majority of people have a similar routine to you?
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Dec 22, 2014 22:11
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Talmonis posted:Being overweight is an interesting dilemna. "Normal" people don't eat nothing but Qinoa and kale chips. Salads and a tiny sliver of lean fish. I don't know anyone who eats like that, who isn't already overweight or some sort of Crossfit nutter. On that same tack, I don't see them measuring each serving, or counting every calorie. "Normal" (as in, nomal BMI) people don't have to spend hours every week in the gym to maintain normal body weight. The average person should be a balloon, by that logic. What makes them different than myself? Is it that I don't feel "full" at the right point? Is it the addiction that causes the body to continue to want more? I don't snack, or eat desserts unless on rare occasion. It's only during meals that I eat so much, but I know that logically, my portions are too large for what I need. The problem is that if I don't eat my fill, I get antsy and feel like something is wrong. I feel compelled to eat "just a little more". I think some people simply have better built in systems for saying no and not eating too much. their system isn't hosed and it's not a huge dose of willpower to have only one chocolate instead of 5-10, it just comes easily. that said, Personally, I find identifying foods that promote hunger and avoiding them is the best step because once I get that desire I can't say no so stopping myself from eating foods that cause that hunger and desire. it's far easier to turn down the first chocolate than that second by a order of magnitude and it doesn't get easier until I've eaten so much I feel pain and hatred for myself  In that regard, I find non-sweet low carb food good for not creating a hunger field around my soul and if you keep it up hunger sort of goes away. the only problem for me is that I don't have the willpower to do it every day and when I do go "gently caress it" I really fuckin destroy my body there must be an aspect of self destruction because knowing that low carb is good for me and my diabetes informs my brain of the opposite and so when it's time to destroy myself I go for carby junk. FML
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Dec 22, 2014 22:16
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Talmonis posted:Do you really think that the vast majority of people have a similar routine to you? I worked with a girl and she was quite skinny, lost baby weight quickly etc. HATED exercise and didn't eat mostly "health food". not a lot of junk but the main thing was that her portions were ALWAYS small [without fail] and you could tell it wasn't a huge self control struggle to do so, she had just been brought up that way and maintained it. wish I wasn't brought up to always finish my meal [not listen to body] and enjoy treat food it'd be much easier than trying to fix lifetime habits later on
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Dec 22, 2014 22:20
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echinopsis posted:wish I wasn't brought up to always finish my meal [not listen to body] and enjoy treat food it'd be much easier than trying to fix lifetime habits later on I think this was a large part of it. I always got the "your grandfather went hungry in the Depression" line from my parents. That coupled with my mother's "well...I guess if you won't finish it off, it'll go to waste and we'll just have to throw it away..." bullshit couldn't have helped my developing mind as a child.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:24
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Talmonis posted:Being overweight is an interesting dilemna. "Normal" people don't eat nothing but Qinoa and kale chips. Salads and a tiny sliver of lean fish. I don't know anyone who eats like that, who isn't already overweight or some sort of Crossfit nutter. On that same tack, I don't see them measuring each serving, or counting every calorie. "Normal" (as in, nomal BMI) people don't have to spend hours every week in the gym to maintain normal body weight. The average person should be a balloon, by that logic. What makes them different than myself? Is it that I don't feel "full" at the right point? Is it the addiction that causes the body to continue to want more? I don't snack, or eat desserts unless on rare occasion. It's only during meals that I eat so much, but I know that logically, my portions are too large for what I need. The problem is that if I don't eat my fill, I get antsy and feel like something is wrong. I feel compelled to eat "just a little more". Take this or leave it, I'm no expert: If you're eating all you want (mostly), and you're only a little bit fat, you might want to consider mild exercise. If you do some sort of low impact cardio...bike, elliptical, swimming for minimal time commitment a day, you could eat pretty much whatever you want and stay thin. I eat fairly well, but I drink an extra 1000 EMPTY calories a day, but the cardio I do is enough to keep me reasonably trim, despite my family traits. I'm fortunate enough that my job involves the cardio, though. Choosing to exercise is tough. Especially when you're feeling ok about your appearance. You should hear all the truly fit people telling me how easy it would be for me to actually look good.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:25
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People who grew up overweight or obese tend have a habit of eating until it hurts. Not just "I'm not hungry" but actually food continued to be spooned in and swallowed until their stomachs ached. The type of food considered worth of a 'meal' matters. Its always calorically dense, being heavy on the fatty meats, with plenty of bonus carbs and sugars and alcohols on the side, both as gravy/dressings/dips, as well as beverages. And there are always snacks to go around, from chips to ice cream. A society of binge and buffet eaters. If you look at the group who is getting fattest the fastest it always seems to be around the working-poor median where folks tend to substitute quantity for quality, don't have or can set aside time between work/school/etc for more exercise and crush diets with convenience and fast food splurges. Berk Berkly fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 22:26
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Talmonis posted:Do you really think that the vast majority of people have a similar routine to you? Not the vast majority, no, but then again, the majority of the US population is overweight. I think it is, or should be, quite normal to do 60 minutes of exercise or physical activity per day 6 times per week. Kids should get in the habit of doing it (look at the simple message of the "Play 60" campaign from the NFL), and adults should continue it. It is not a burden or an undue imposition. Yeah, it sucks to drag myself to go exercise when I'm hungover, or when I have to wake up at 5AM so I can exercise and make it to work early, but lots of things I have to do in my life suck -- that's not a reason to not do them.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:51
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I don't think starting from a position of "I can do it, then you should too" is too productive. Generally there are reasons, and not just "Heh, lazy fat slobs" that most people seem to want to assume that the obese fall into. It often takes a case by case basis and help to get the inertia rolling in the right direction. Advice like, "Just change your whole lifestyle, whats the problem?" tends to miss the point really. And people have likely been giving them advice their whole life. It hasn't helped. I doubt there is probably a single fat person in America right now that hasn't heard some variation of "Eat less, exercise more" multiple times in their life and from within their own head.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:54
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For those with a food addiction (better said, an overeating addiction) they are using food to provide pleasure because they have a deficiency in some other area of their life. With a therapist, they may be able to identify that deficiency and treat the underlying problem. (See that study about crack users who stopped doing crack all the time when they could actually make money and have a good job in a not poo poo neighborhood.) That said most overweight people don't have a food addiction, they are just caught in a perfect storm of poor availability of healthy food and a society that, by its structure, discourages exercise. I feel many people in this thread are conflating the two.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:07
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It may be a sugar addiction, considering how much of that stuff is in everything.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:17
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i am harry posted:It may be a sugar addiction, considering how much of that stuff is in everything. Sugar in of itself isn't uniquely addicting, though developing a taste for sweet things and finding everything else unpalatable is a problem. See sugary drinks vs water.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:27
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Berk Berkly posted:Sugar in of itself isn't uniquely addicting, though developing a taste for sweet things and finding everything else unpalatable is a problem. I think that's a bigger problem in a lot of ways. It isn't that people are necessarily addicted to sweets but drink crap loads of sugary drinks without really thinking about it. I'm a pretty skinny dude even though I'm in my 30's and the biggest advice I always give people when they ask me how I stay so thin is "I don't drink soda." Eating habits are another major portion of it but I know a gently caress ton of people who just never bothered looking at how many calories there are in a bottle of soda. If there's 250 calories a bottle and you drink three of them a day...well...yeah. The other side of it is a lot of Americans think that eating healthy is a matter of eating nothing that tastes good, ever, and just go "meh, gently caress that." Well no, there are plenty of delicious things you can make that aren't hideously unhealthy. But really, as a society it's true that we're very sedentary but have an amazing adoration for carbonated sugar water and deep fried garbage. Seriously, our eating habits are god awful. Of course, that's also part of why food addiction can be not only hard to get rid of but easier to acquire in America. Food is plentiful and everywhere. Society isn't going to judge you all that hard if you eat an entire bucket of chicken for dinner every day. We've basically made overeating a social requirement.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:48
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Xibanya posted:(See that study about crack users who stopped doing crack all the time when they could actually make money and have a good job in a not poo poo neighborhood.) Solution found. Get overweight people to lose wight by developing dope habits. Once they hit rock bottom and are skinny, they can rebound into svelte success!! I kid.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:53
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I think that's a bigger problem in a lot of ways. It isn't that people are necessarily addicted to sweets but drink crap loads of sugary drinks without really thinking about it. I'm a pretty skinny dude even though I'm in my 30's and the biggest advice I always give people when they ask me how I stay so thin is "I don't drink soda." Eating habits are another major portion of it but I know a gently caress ton of people who just never bothered looking at how many calories there are in a bottle of soda. If there's 250 calories a bottle and you drink three of them a day...well...yeah. The latter is only true if you look skinny/fit/healthy 'enough' because it barely matters what obese people eat, they generally are looked down and mocked for it. A skinny bastard noming down on a dog or with their hand in a bag of chips isn't even given a second look. A fat dude just HOLDING a bag of some fast food is likely to encounter at least one sneering, "Yea, no wonder why you so fat, fatty." on their way home in public. There is plenty of judgement to go around in America about people's eating habits.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:06
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This discussion reminds me of how I was gaining weight starting 5th grade (when I spent a year in the US and was very depressed and alienated form everyone, and also had access to a lot of junk food), and going on 7th. I went to a therapist who just went over an exercise routine with me, and I stuck to it and basically rebounded weightwise. Ever since then I feel really bad if I don't do some kind of physical exercise. I had a group of friends and we'd go jogging together or playing street hockey. Not because we were any good, but for the fun and exercise. I know it's bad to come to conclusions based on TV and movies, but I get the impression that American schools only encourage you to exercise if you're on a sports team. Another thing that feeds into it is that I am used to smaller portion sizes, having grown up in Israel.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:14
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Berk Berkly posted:A fat dude just HOLDING a bag of some fast food is likely to encounter at least one sneering, "Yea, no wonder why you so fat, fatty." on their way home in public.  Do you mean actual legit "fat" here, or the sort of "fat" that's actually noticeably obese? I've never ever seen a "regular" fat dude get mocked in public for having fast food. It's only ever the seriously obese people who get passing comments, and even those are pretty drat rare. It's very troubling how the American perception of normal-sized has become "30 pounds overweight" and someone who's medically and dangerously obese is now just simply fat.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:20
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Berk Berkly posted:The latter is only true if you look skinny/fit/healthy 'enough' because it barely matters what obese people eat, they generally are looked down and mocked for it. That isn't judging somebody for their eating habits it's judging somebody for their size. Of course the skinny person is likely to get "well it must be nice to be able to eat garbage and stay thin like that! You must have a great metabolism!" Well no, I just don't eat this crap every day. I think I've had a single bag of chips this month and haven't been to McDonald's in like five weeks at least. Brannock posted:
Yeah this is the other thing. It's become bad manners to say to your friend "bro I think you're eating yourself to death, can we like change your habits or get you some help or something?" One of the places I used to work started a thing to get people healthier where people could volunteer to set weight loss goals, discuss healthy eating habits, exercise together by doing stuff like going for a brief walk on break, and stuff like that. It wasn't required and the whole point of it was to get together and encourage each other to take better care of themselves then congratulate each other for doing so. It got shut down because a few monstrous fatties (I'm talking 400+ pounds) did nothing but complain about how it made them feel soooooo baaaaaaad and their feelings were hurt because they just knew they were judged for not participating and well it isn't my fault I'm fat I have a glandular issue aaaaaaannnnnddddd... You get the idea. The other weird thing is that if you declare being deathfat anything other than perfectly normal and healthy there is somebody that will lose their drat minds over it. People have actually gotten furious with me when I've said things like "diabetes runs in my family something fierce so I keep myself from getting fat. I'd like to not die of renal failure in my 50's."
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Dec 23, 2014 01:32
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That isn't judging somebody for their eating habits it's judging somebody for their size. Of course the skinny person is likely to get "well it must be nice to be able to eat garbage and stay thin like that! You must have a great metabolism!" Well no, I just don't eat this crap every day. I think I've had a single bag of chips this month and haven't been to McDonald's in like five weeks at least. I was replying specially to your: quote:Society isn't going to judge you all that hard if you eat an entire bucket of chicken for dinner every day. We've basically made overeating a social requirement. Society isn't gonna judge a skinny person for eating bucket of chicken for dinner every day. No one would honestly care. But people are more than happy to point it out to an obese person, even though its the exact same habit. Not that people who mention it who actually gives a poo poo. either. It is far away the mocking type. "Of course they eat a bucket of chicken every night, look at that monster." Pointing this discrepancy out to people gets a shrug at best. Obesity puts people in a moral deficit in the eyes of society. Also those people at your workplace hat were 400+ obese probably needed a lot more help than some volunteer at-work health program. Those people more than likely need much more intimate and personal help getting to the point where they can even help themselves. Its the same problem you run into with anyone with seriously bad ingrained habits, smoking, drinking, etc. A 'stop smoking' at work program is just going to make the heavy smokers them feel outted and highlighted for their bad habits and resist the superficial help people offer. Yea, they know its bad, and yea, they know others have stopped smoking, but "ya'll can go gently caress yourself if ya'll so better than me" sort of thing, which I have heard with my own ears from my own mother. Berk Berkly fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 02:13
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echinopsis posted:Is it really real. The measure of addictiveness is how absorbing, compelling, and harmful to the person an involvement is. So yes, people can develop addictive involvements with food. Addictions exist on a continuum of severity, from a mild problem that only occasionally overwhelms a person's life and may be short-lived, to the middle of the continuum where addicted people strive to maintain a double life and the appearance of normality, to the severe end when the addiction cannot be concealed, destroys the person's conventional lifestyle, causes great harm to others, and can reach an unrelenting, hellish intensity with sometimes fatal consequences. My relationship with online gaming I would say occupies the mild end of the continuum. I work with a lady who recently put herself into a diabetic coma due to poor diet. She occupies the other end of the continuum and will probably die before she reaches 50. KingEup fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 03:11
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echinopsis posted:I think some people simply have better built in systems for saying no and not eating too much. their system isn't hosed and it's not a huge dose of willpower to have only one chocolate instead of 5-10, it just comes easily. Developing new eating habits/skills takes time, mindfulness and practice. Forming new habits is often painful and jarring. Try rearranging the cuttlery in your draw or moving you kitchen waste bin to another part of the room and you will be cursing for at least a week. If you have been practicing bad eating habits for 30 years the readjustment period is going to take considerably longer and require more mindfulness and planning.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:58
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Lemme jump in here and say that food "addiction", like most "psychological addictions", are believed and theorized to be fundamentally different from the addictions people develop from controlled substances. Under that model, there is some thing in the controlled substance that separately induces a neurological state/mechanism that produces/reinforces the addiction behaviors, with broader psychological effects. None of this is to dismiss the problematic behaviors or mental states associated with food, but the term "addiction", in this context, is ultimately describing a very different phenomenon. Food ingredients, and food in general, aren't addictive in the same way that marijuana or alcohol or heroin are. (Caffiene is the one possible exception, but that's still being debated). Sharkie posted:I was only talking about people in the field (binge eating disorder is in the DSM), not random people because if one were counting them you'd have to conclude that evolution is controversial. On this point, the disorders in question are distinguished in the DSM along these lines, as you quote. Scientifically, "addiction" means something narrower, even if the patterns of behavior the thread describes are incredibly harmful. edit: sidenote: the DSM remains terribad. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 06:48
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Discendo Vox posted:Lemme jump in here and say that food "addiction", like most "psychological addictions", are believed and theorized to be fundamentally different from the addictions people develop from controlled substances. Under that model, there is some thing in the controlled substance that separately induces a neurological state/mechanism that produces/reinforces the addiction behaviors, with broader psychological effects. I don't know Discendo, if I don't get myself some food for a day or two I begin to feel headachy and aggravated. Longer than that brings on feelings of weakness and mental delusions. I end up holed up in bed for days trying to beat the food monkey on my back, but the physical withdrawal gets so bad I always have to break down and eat something, anything, at that point it's so bad that it doesn't matter what. I think food is more addictive than heroin by far.
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Dec 23, 2014 07:01
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:I don't know Discendo, if I don't get myself some food for a day or two I begin to feel headachy and aggravated. Longer than that brings on feelings of weakness and mental delusions. I end up holed up in bed for days trying to beat the food monkey on my back, but the physical withdrawal gets so bad I always have to break down and eat something, anything, at that point it's so bad that it doesn't matter what. I think food is more addictive than heroin by far. You're describing hunger. You would feel those symptoms prior to any exposure to the substance in question. (sadly, my proposal for a clinical trial to test this got rejected.) More generally, physical withdrawal symptoms are one of a broader set of harder to classify mental effects-they're just the easiest to quantify. More on point, you don't have to be at the point of experiencing obvious withdrawal (or resemble faces of meth) to have a problematic relationship with food- or to have a substance addiction. Like other mental illnesses, the extreme cases have been culturally internalized as representative, to harmful effect. edit: Oh jeez, you were being sarcastic. I've spent too long explaining nutrition to my cohort at work, I've lost the ability to tell. I get a bit paranoid about the use of the word "addictive" around food because there's a set of well-placed authors trying to promote the bogus idea that sugar, salt or fat are addictive (intentionally confusing the "psychological" and the neuro/scientific/controlled substances sense). That set of claims come out of a messy corporate, political battle that would be a derail to fully discuss, but the short version is that consuming sugar, fat or salt isn't addictive to any greater degree than any other pleasure-causing activity would be. Be especially suspicious of Robert Lustig- the man is basically laughed out of conferences, but he still has academic credentials and financial backing, so he keeps popping up in the press. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 07:08
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Berk Berkly posted:Society isn't gonna judge a skinny person for eating bucket of chicken for dinner every day. No one would honestly care.
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Dec 23, 2014 07:19
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You can't really look at it in isolation though. Yes, they might share a bad habit when it comes to a single specific food, but chances are the obese person shares additional bad habits with a bunch of different skinny people. Also, the skinny person might be offsetting the "bad food" with exercise appropriate to their consumption. We have strayed way off topic with all this tangential stuff, but the point wasn't that somehow the skinny person is 'cheating' on gaining weight, that society will judge the same behavior differently given the two different individuals. In this case their reactions likely being ambivalence for the skinny guy versus disdain and disgust for the fatty. It doesn't have to be a whole bucket of chicken either, just one modest burger. I'm certain people would describe watching them eating said thing in completely different terms and tone. People would likely get pretty bored watching the thin gent eat but feel awkward or shake their head at and ask mocking questions like, "Is this why their so fat?" In addition, people, both fat and skinny, don't exercise enough in general. Diet is the greatest single contributing factor to when it comes to weight gain/loss/control, while exercise determines body composition. Its much easier to not eat four hundred calories than it is to metabolically burn it. And its practically impossible to gain and maintain cardiovascular vigor and muscle strength and mass without exercise. But you can sleep fat off since your body still burns tons of calories to maintain body heat and organ function, regardless. Its basically how mammal hibernation works. Okay, back to actual "Food Addiction" topic now.
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Dec 23, 2014 07:58
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Berk Berkly posted:We have strayed way off topic with all this tangential stuff, but the point wasn't that somehow the skinny person is 'cheating' on gaining weight, e: To relate this to the topic, only one of these people would probably be called a food addict. Hell, even if the office worker ate significantly less than Phelps this would still be true, since there's obviously a point to his eating beyond eating itself while office workers don't actually need that much food. Berk Berkly posted:that society will judge the same behavior differently given the two different individuals. In this case their reactions likely being ambivalence for the skinny guy versus disdain and disgust for the fatty. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 09:27
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Talmonis posted:I think this was a large part of it. I always got the "your grandfather went hungry in the Depression" line from my parents. That coupled with my mother's "well...I guess if you won't finish it off, it'll go to waste and we'll just have to throw it away..." bullshit couldn't have helped my developing mind as a child. My mum cooks everything in ridiculous portion sizes, then throws a bunch of it away afterwards. I also always got the idea to finish your meals, though mostly from my grandma who actually is very careful about what she buys and uses. Mum's weird though, complains about things being expensive and being fat, yet still just has no idea how to cook a practical portion size. It drives me mad, I hate wasting food, cooking for myself I cook smaller sizes (and I'd still describe them as pretty big) but I don't throw stuff away either. Honestly if anything, a tendency to finish meals is beneficial for me because it causes me to plan what I'm going to eat more when I shop.
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Dec 23, 2014 10:37
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With the amount of addictive poo poo we put on our food these days? Absolutely.
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Dec 23, 2014 13:09
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Berk Berkly posted:People who grew up overweight or obese tend have a habit of eating until it hurts. Not just "I'm not hungry" but actually food continued to be spooned in and swallowed until their stomachs ached. I was watching "The Hustler" a few days ago, and it struck me that Paul Newman and all the other characters were drinking hard liquor and chain-smoking in essentially every scene. Now this was a movie about degenerates, but it was also very indicative of the time. In 1961, people drank hard liquor and smoked -- now people mostly drink beer and wine and don't smoke. Hard liquor and cigarettes are still awesome, but they are socially discouraged. I think the same thing has to happen with calorie-dense, nutrient-poor foods. The question is, what's a cheap replacement? Beer was a cheap replacement for liquor, and weed (or nothing ) was a cheap replacement for cigarettes. But what are you going to replace Cheetos with? I'm not sure.
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Dec 23, 2014 20:28
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Slobjob Zizek posted:I was watching "The Hustler" a few days ago, and it struck me that Paul Newman and all the other characters were drinking hard liquor and chain-smoking in essentially every scene. Now this was a movie about degenerates, but it was also very indicative of the time. In 1961, people drank hard liquor and smoked -- now people mostly drink beer and wine and don't smoke. Hard liquor and cigarettes are still awesome, but they are socially discouraged. I would suggest that food has also taken the place of hard liquor and/or cigarettes for a lot of people with addictive personalities. The metabolic change of quitting smoking isn't that severe, but you see a lot of people quit smoking and gain weight because they're now using food to replace cigarettes. The way people describe turning to food for comfort sounds really similar to the way I feel about cigarettes. It's so bad in the future, but it's so, so great in the moment.
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Dec 23, 2014 20:33
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Slobjob Zizek posted:I was watching "The Hustler" a few days ago, and it struck me that Paul Newman and all the other characters were drinking hard liquor and chain-smoking in essentially every scene. Now this was a movie about degenerates, but it was also very indicative of the time. In 1961, people drank hard liquor and smoked -- now people mostly drink beer and wine and don't smoke. Hard liquor and cigarettes are still awesome, but they are socially discouraged. Celery and baby carrots?
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Dec 23, 2014 20:40
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It's addictive probably, but by far one of the easiest addictions to fix. There's definitely some changes that need to be made on a macro scale, as the rise in obesity is a national/ worldwide problem, but on the individual level it is not hard at all to manage a healthy weight. One thing that does hold them back are people going on about how difficult or impossible such a feat is due to "addictive chemicals" and so on- the last thing a person who wants to change needs is someone telling them they are going to fail.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:56
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Berk Berkly posted:A fat dude just HOLDING a bag of some fast food is likely to encounter at least one sneering, "Yea, no wonder why you so fat, fatty." on their way home in public. Well of course they will, unhealthy activities are looked down upon in society, see also cigarette smoking. In fact fat people have it farrrrrrr better than smokers do/did when it comes to public judgement. Pretty sure no-one was ever called a "smoke-shamer" or whatever. Also despite what some oft-cited studies might claim, obesity costs society a lot of money, and not just medically.
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Dec 23, 2014 22:06
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tsa posted:It's addictive probably, but by far one of the easiest addictions to fix. There's definitely some changes that need to be made on a macro scale, as the rise in obesity is a national/ worldwide problem, but on the individual level it is not hard at all to manage a healthy weight. One thing that does hold them back are people going on about how difficult or impossible such a feat is due to "addictive chemicals" and so on- the last thing a person who wants to change needs is someone telling them they are going to fail. Being hungry and exhausted all the time is not a good time, or easy. This is what it takes to lose weight in the manner of an entire lifestyle change. You will be miserable for a long, long time. There's a reason it's worthy of praise when someone manages to lose a lot of weight. And they sure as hell don't need the scorn of people who claim it's so easy, implying that if they fail, they're deficient.
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Dec 23, 2014 22:21
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