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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:Wait until you see the 5-3 boss. Forgot which maps the fifth one, it's ice right? Watched a stream the other day of someone getting there for the first time and it was delicous to see them get instagibbed by that boss 
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Jan 3, 2015 19:27
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Samopsa posted:You can also make a case for the following mutations being the ~best~: Yeah these are all really good too! If you're lucky enough to get Plutonium Hunger early you'll be way more likely to live long enough to get those. Back Muscle I want to talk about specifically because I feel like it is almost necessary to have this mutation to defeat the Throne if you aren't packing some serious power weapons. The Throne just has far too much health and without back muscle you are very likely to simply not have enough ammunition to defeat it with common weapons. I consider this kind of a design flaw, to be honest. One thing that would really alleviate this problem is if the throne room had various weapons and ammo drops scattered around it on your first visit, the way it does when you're looping. (This actually happens because the game tries to spawn a bunch of enemies, and they all get gibbed for existing in the throne room.)
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Jan 3, 2015 20:37
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I seem to remember getting ammo drops from some of the projectiles being shot on my only time in the Throne room.
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Jan 3, 2015 21:14
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All bosses drop ammo in some way except the two weaker ones (Big Bandit, Lil' Hunter). The rest either spawn enemies that drop stuff or they shoot big projectiles that leave ammo. Not having to pick that up will save you from a load of dangerous situations though!
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Jan 3, 2015 22:22
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Samopsa posted:You can also make a case for the following mutations being the ~best~: For me the Hierarchy goes Back Muscle > Rhino Skin > Plutonium Hunger, though this is coming from somebody who mostly plans their mutations with the intention of looping. There are some characters where you can substitute these or just ignore them, for instance if you get throne butt on crystal you can teleport to the pickups or into radiation range (though having both gives you incredible flexibility), and rebel for instance is probably the only character I would say doesn't need back muscle but you are almost entirely screwed if you don't get rhino skin early. Meanwhile plutonium hunger is #1or #2 for a lot of indirect fighters and ranged specialists like horror, rebel, melting; though they also have very strange mutation preferences in general. In any case plutonium hunger is probably the best QoL mutation in the game. Strictly speaking you can get by without rhino skin on anyone but melting and rebel, but it is quite nice to have in any case for obvious reasons. Back muscle is a bit of a sore point for me by now, it is on most characters the most important mutation, bar none, because when you get to The Throne you need either a way to safely destroy the big projectiles or incredibly ammo efficient, high-damage weapons, and even with back muscle you can quite easily run out of ammo in the fight. Then if you manage to scrape by I hope you can beat a dozen IDPD and the following boss without any recovery. This point is mostly moot after the first loop because of how weapons are strewn about the throne room on following visits, but I don't think I've ever gotten there without back muscle. Also it's just really nice having more ammo. After that I'd say Rabbit Paw, Boiling Veins, and Scarier Face go on the "good on anybody" list, probably in that order. Rabbit Paw requires talking a bit about the way the drop system in this game works, so I'll just snip the important bit from the wiki on the subject- Nuclear Throne Wiki posted:The default ammo drop modifier is 50% for primary and secondary weapon (50% + 50% = 100%) Boiling Veins obviously just keeps you from getting gibbed by explosions, if you're wanting to use explosive weapons (or Rogue's Throne Butt) it is almost a must have, but it is also just really good to have while looping, I couldn't tell you how many times I've died to plant mutants deep into loops because I didn't have boiling veins. And scarier face is pretty simple, it reduces enemy health by 20%, which may not seem like a lot, but it leads to a lot of important break points are far as how many shots it takes to kill something, the main one that you'll notice is that it makes it so that you can 2-shot 50 hp enemies with regular bolts and slugs (each of which do 20 damage). Scarier face is also quite good on characters with fixed-damage specials, like melting, rebel, and rogue. After that comes what I'd consider the "weapon specific mutations"- Eagle eyes, Laser Brain, Recycle Gland, Bolt Marrow, Long Arms, Racing Mind, and Shotgun Fingers (lol). These all very much affect you only when using specific weapons and are completely useless outside of those circumstances. Eagle eyes decreases shot spread by a significant amount (making it just a good choice on steroids any time) and is absolutely needed for a number of bullet weapons such as the minigun, double minigun, triple machine gun, and quadruple machine gun. It also helps a lot of the higher tiered automatic versions of other weapons types, such as the auto crossbow, laser rifle, and laser minigun, which are all balanced by losing accuracy in return for fire rate. It also has a significant effect on all types of shotguns, but depending on how you like to use them this can be a good thing or a bad thing. Laser Brain in most situations makes energy weapons do a significant amount of (potential) extra damage, without going too deep into specifics it makes lasers do 60% more damage, lightning does 50% more damage, plasma does 50% more damage, and energy melee weapons do 100% more damage. The way it actually functions is by giving the projectiles more hit frames, allowing them to hit enemies more times. With Laser Brain, energy melee weapons are some of the most powerful, ammo efficient weapons in the game, with the energy sword being at the top with 30 damage per ammo expended. It's worth noting that Laser Brain does not currently effect the Ion Cannon, though it is already the highest damage-per-ammo weapon in the game at 50 potential damage-per-ammo. Recycle gland simply gives bullets that hit an enemy or prop a 60% chance of refunding their ammo, it works with heavy bullet weapons but not pop-guns. One of the more potent weapon mutations, it can make taking down some of the bigger enemies and bosses essentially a non-issue when it comes to ammo. Bolt Marrow is a commonly overlooked mutation, probably because it needs Scarier Face to be able to really shine. Bolt marrow allows bolts, heavy bolts, and discs to "snap" to enemies when they get near them, basically turning near-misses into hits. The main draw of this is for when a projectile pierces an enemy, it can continue to snap to others that it pierces through. The drawback here is that most enemies rest on the very amount of health needed to absorb a bolt while also dying (20 for regular bolts and 50 for heavy bolts), so Scarier Face is needed to get the most utility out of Bolt Marrow. Long arms is another simple one, it gives you a fairly significant amount of range on the "big" melee weapons (the effect is very, very small on screwdrivers and the jackhammer). Racing mind is really useful only on weapons with a significant reload time, whenever you kill something it removed 40% of the current reload on both weapons, so it can be used by firing a long reload weapon, switching to a faster one and killing things, then coming back to the other ready to fire, though most of the time it will be used with the hopes of killing at least 2-3 things with a big weapons like a plasma cannon or nuke launcher. Shotgun Fingers just makes shells and slugs bounce farther, personally I don't thing it's a very useful mutation, but it can shine when using a flak weapon or if you manage to find an ultra shotgun after looping. Blood Lust and Second stomach largely fill the same role, getting you health back, some people put a lot of value on these, and in some cases they are just good depending on the character. Rebel for instance can have a good time taking both of them to spam out allies as often as possible. Mechanically second stomach makes med-kits, med-chests, and pizza slices return double the health, and it also makes robots recover 4 health from eating guns instead of 2. Blood-lust gives you a 6.66% chance to gain 1 health when an enemy dies, which in particular can be very good on chicken for when you're headless. All in all I would say that if you want only one of them, get second stomach if you're robot or have Rabbit Paw, if you're chicken you probably want blood lust, otherwise it's really about the same. Personally, unless I'm Crystal, Chicken, Rebel, or Robot I don't find a huge amount of value in these, but I lean towards second stomach if it's a tossup. Extra Leg stands on it's own (hurf), the baseline benefit is up for debate, but recently it was changed so that it also allows you to move regularly on surfaces that would otherwise hinder your movement in some way (currently only the spider webs in 4-1 and the ice in 5-1 thru 5-3) so it can be very good if those places give you trouble. I find myself taking it fairly often since it was changed, and it's quite good on chicken as well, since without it you can't actually move on spider webs while using slow motion, and between favoring melee and being able to move faster in slowmo than you would otherwise, it's just a nice pickup. Sharp teeth and Stress for me fall into a category titled "Only good on Rebel" and even then, they are pretty easy to pass up for better things. They both rely on you planning to be at lower health to get any benefit out of them, and the only character you should be planning such a thing on is Rebel, though she has a lot of other mutations that are much more important for her. Mechanically, sharp teeth transmits any damage you take to all of the enemies on the screen and doubles it for them, which sounds great, but ends up only being chip damage on anything but the smallest enemies. Stress gives you extra fire rate when missing health and works off of the percentage of your max health that you are missing, capping out at +80% fire rate when you're headless as chicken (the only situation you can actually hit the 80% cap. Impact Wrists, Euphoria, Lucky Shot, and Gamma Guts range from being only "ok" on a single character to being almost entirely useless in my eyes. Impact wrists has a niche use on melting, in that it can amp up the damage of corpse explosion past what it gets from Throne Butt and Scarier Face, it can however fling corpses into places where their explosion is less useful. Otherwise impact wrists is largely just tiny bits of chip damage past the first few levels. Euphoria slows bullets by 20% which is an amount that is significant for many things, but frankly not bullet speed, it's only real use is on eyes to further slow bullets slowed by telekinesis. Lucky shot seems like a good mutation on paper, about a 14% chance to get half an ammo pickup worth of ammo when you kill an enemy, but the trick is that it is a completely random type of ammo that takes no bearing from what weapons you are using, so basically chop that down into about a 6% chance to get a very small amount of a relevant type of ammo. Gamma Guts to be blunt, is the worst mutation in the game, you never want to take it, because most of the enemies in the game also do contact damage to you (or explode when they die). The only real discovered use for Gamma Guts is on Rogue, because then you can stand on IDPD portals and Inspectors and Grunts will die as they spawn, then a Shielder gibs you with a spary of bullets and you remember why Gamma Guts is worthless. And lastly is Throne Butt, suffice to say it is quite good on almost every character at this point and they are continuing to tweak the various incarnations of it. Personally the only throne butt I would commonly pass up is Y.V.'s because most of the time it is overkill to fire four times instead of twice, and depending on my mood I'll pass on Rebel's for a chance at mutations that simply allow more volume of allies. The only character I can't really comment on is fish, because I rarely play him, not because he's "bad" I just find him rather dull compared to anyone else, and his active is of limited usefulness at best (though it has been changed quite a bit recently according to patch notes). I really just wanted to talk about the "best mutations" here but got a bit carried away, I hope somebody finds my musing on the subject useful at least. I might write a post about ultra mutations at some point, but those are of course much more limited, and also not even fully implemented yet. In any case I'm glad there's a thread for Nuclear Throne now. e: Since it's linked in the op now I'll give my thoughts on Strong Spirit and Hammerhead here (subject to change as the skills are adjusted of course). I would say Strong Spirit is a new "must have" for any run, it makes melting a much more viable looper (along with making his B ultra mutation much more usable), but is amazing on any character since it lets you survive ridiculous amounts of damage that were impossible before, such as getting a slug reflected at you by a shielder or crown guardian. Hammerhead however is mostly forgettable, if you value breaking through walls use an energy hammer or grenade rifle/shotgun. AndroidHub fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 22:22
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Nice post! I'll link it in the OP for newbies. I generally agree; but I value second stomach quite higher. The 2 HP difference on healing means you'll be able to take an extra hit in clutch situations, which matters a lot in my experience. Stress also has a nice application: it kills the swarms in the labs, which can really save your rear end. Still, I skip it unless it's bundled with crap.
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Jan 3, 2015 22:32
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I love Impact Wrists, but mostly because I find melee weapons the most fun. Couple that with the reload mutations  I agree that you should always grab Hunger though.
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Jan 3, 2015 22:57
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AndroidHub posted:The only character I can't really comment on is fish, because I rarely play him, not because he's "bad" I just find him rather dull compared to anyone else, and his active is of limited usefulness at best (though it has been changed quite a bit recently according to patch notes). This guy is wrong always play fish, he is the best. Another thing about Laser Brain is that it significantly increases projectile size, I tend to pick it up more often than not because energy weapons are cool and good.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:09
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It's worth noting I do think fish is more interesting/fun than plant, but plant's throne butt is the reason to play plant, and I was talking about throne butts so...
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Jan 3, 2015 23:22
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This game is good. Melting is best.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:26
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Actually on the topic of throne butts, Rogue has probably become my most played character since they changed hers, you do pretty much need boiling veins if you want to use it though, it basically becomes a nuke launcher explosion. I look forward to the day when they make the idpd spawns scale with difficulty though, you end up fighting two shielders in the first few levels and you're gonna have a bad day.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:34
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This steam review "Having only a screwdriver to kill roomfuls of sentient crow people reminds me of my tragic youth." I will now purchase this game at some point.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:38
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AndroidHub posted:It's worth noting I do think fish is more interesting/fun than plant, but plant's throne butt is the reason to play plant, and I was talking about throne butts so... Yeah, at one point it was invincible all through the dash animation which was a tad broken, but I do hope they'll make his throne butt more interesting again. Still play fish everybody, he's the best.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:03
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Fish isn't even in the running, the fight for who is the best is between Steroids and Y.V.  But yeah, my advice for people just starting is to try all of the characters often, because a lot of characters can change each update even. And use random, each time you die it gives you a new character when you quick restart. The same really goes for weapons, some of them can seem really unwieldy like the plasma cannon (cannons in general really), or some of the high spread bullet weapons, but they can be really fun once you try them, and especially once you get some mutations that can help such weapons (eagle eyes). Explosives however only if you have boiling veins, and toxic weapons and disk guns are very much a "use at your own risk" because these all have the potential to kill you in a single firing if you screw up.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:25
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Nalesh posted:I don't even care about reaching the throne, going constant 1 health rebel is just hilariously fun. It's actually super easy to reach the throne as Rebel by spamming allies. She gets exp from her allies, allowing her to level faster than any other character (you can get your ultra mutation around 5-3 or 6-1), and the "enemies take damage when you are hurt" perk combined with all the health related perks (heal on kill being most important for late game) you can get effectively turns her in to a better Melting that can clear entire rooms without the catalyst of a corpse. The best is labs because you can get so many allies that the game grinds to a halt for about 3 seconds when you clear the level and they all keel over.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:25
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If anyone doesn't know about the shortcut, you access it from the very first stage. When you start the level, make sure to never use your weapons or kill an enemy. Immediately go and collect the ammo chest and the weapon chest. You can collect the rad canister as well, but it's not required. After collecting those two chests, the boss from 1-3 will spawn. Now you have to kill him as quickly as possible. I'm not sure of the timing, but it seems like you have to do it in under 10 seconds. If you do this, then a portal spawns and takes you to the secret underwater level. Complete this, and you skip to 3-3.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:41
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I just made a group primarily for the purpose of watching goons play through steam broadcasting, but also for discussion, help, etc come join up http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ThroneGoons (you need to use the steam beta to use steam broadcasting).
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Jan 4, 2015 01:27
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:If anyone doesn't know about the shortcut, you access it from the very first stage. When you start the level, make sure to never use your weapons or kill an enemy. Immediately go and collect the ammo chest and the weapon chest. You can collect the rad canister as well, but it's not required. After collecting those two chests, the boss from 1-3 will spawn. Now you have to kill him as quickly as possible. I'm not sure of the timing, but it seems like you have to do it in under 10 seconds. If you do this, then a portal spawns and takes you to the secret underwater level. Complete this, and you skip to 3-3. well that explains why that boss popped up randomly on the first level for me once
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Jan 4, 2015 02:29
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Awesome! posted:well that explains why that boss popped up randomly on the first level for me once Geez same, I thought that was a bug. And even if you don't make it in time, it'll still boot you to 2-1, skipping 1-2 and 1-3 entirely. But why would you want that? The game's balls to the wall hard enough without also having to miss out on 2+ levels worth of exp and weapons.
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Jan 4, 2015 04:30
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Shark Tower posted:Geez same, I thought that was a bug. And even if you don't make it in time, it'll still boot you to 2-1, skipping 1-2 and 1-3 entirely. But why would you want that? The game's balls to the wall hard enough without also having to miss out on 2+ levels worth of exp and weapons. Because for each level you complete, the games difficulty rises. So say level 1-1 is difficulty 1, level 1-2 is difficulty 2. By the time you got to level 3-3 normally, you'd be on difficulty 7. By taking the shortcut, you're only on difficulty 3 when you get to 3-3. That, and the weapons and mutations you earn by progressing through each level will only be marginally better than if you had skipped. Skill plays a much larger factor, the extra bonuses from weapons and mutations are only slight tweaks.
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Jan 4, 2015 05:17
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I just recently (ie today) discovered how amazing crown of guns is, it sounds bad until you process that weapons give the equivalent of an ammo chest worth of ammo, and essentially every large enemy you kill will drop a gun. The only trick is that you might need to be switching guns somewhat regularly.
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Jan 4, 2015 06:28
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What are the symbols in the top right? Are those your current mutations?
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Jan 4, 2015 06:35
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Yes, you can see what each one is here.
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Jan 4, 2015 06:38
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Very important information: You can press B ingame as YV to make an airhorn sound at any time.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:37
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Invisible Ted posted:Got to this area last night: Haha my one year old started dancing when I played this.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:38
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Today's daily is loving insane. 1-3 has never contained more scorpions.
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Jan 4, 2015 14:31
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Samopsa posted:Today's daily is loving insane. 1-3 has never contained more scorpions. I saw this post and was like "oh come on it can't be THAT bad" and then I didn't make it past 1-3
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Jan 4, 2015 15:29
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i am extremely good at running into Big Dog's corpse explosion and extremely bad at everything else
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Jan 4, 2015 15:31
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CJacobs posted:I saw this post and was like "oh come on it can't be THAT bad" and then I didn't make it past 1-3 I survived without taking damage, only to die in 3-2 to 2 bandit bullets. :nuclearthrone:
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Jan 4, 2015 15:46
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I will second melting being the best character. Corpse explosion, more mutations, high risk, best face. Only got as far as the second ice level with him, but someday I will make it all the way.
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Jan 4, 2015 15:52
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 Plus he's kinda cute 
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Jan 4, 2015 16:12
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I hope they one day go through with one of the discussed mechanics for Melting, where instead of an ultra mutation he just doesn't have a level cap and can potentially get EVERY mutation.
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Jan 4, 2015 17:45
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I have reached the Nuclear Throne today but did not live to tell the tale. Been playing this on and off for a couple days and it's really great. I normally don't even consider early access titles but this one seemed to be finished already.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:31
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AndroidHub posted:I just recently (ie today) discovered how amazing crown of guns is, it sounds bad until you process that weapons give the equivalent of an ammo chest worth of ammo, and essentially every large enemy you kill will drop a gun. The only trick is that you might need to be switching guns somewhat regularly. Been starting out and I managed to get into the crown room a couple of times but I couldnt figure out if any of then were useful - they all seem such risk/reward prospects. I defaulted to crown of explosions because why not make more fireworks.
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Jan 4, 2015 23:08
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Yeah, I'd Explosions, Guns, and Rush (If I have rad hunger) are the ones I take these days, also taking Destiny once I hit the cap for an extra mutation. I've tried a lot to make the Crown of Blood work, but the levels after each crown vault are inherently dangerous already with bosses, and the one in 7-2 always gets jumped on by a temple dog, they really need to do something about that. Hatred and Death seem like such bad choices I've never even tried them. While Choice and Love are limiting in an unfun way for me with the "upside" not seeming worth it at all
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Jan 4, 2015 23:29
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I should not be allowed near explosives or explosive weaponry, especially as steroids
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Jan 5, 2015 00:09
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New update going live shortly it seems, with new mutations. Not sure what I think of the idea of hammerhead until I give it a try, but I've thought something like strong spirit should be wrapped into last wish, could definitely be worth taking though.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:21
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I wonder how Strong Spirit works with Melting
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Jan 5, 2015 00:31
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Yeah, so I was reading strong spirit completely wrong, I thought it was like a one time extra life sorta deal, but it's any time you are above 1 health the next hit can at most take you to 1 health, so it's pretty huge, particularly to melting I would say.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:48
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Strong Spirit definitely pretty strong in that it's a lifeline that refreshes any time you pull yourself up above 1 HP. Hammerhead is... interesting. You can destroy flame traps even if you don't have a weapon that can take out terrain!  E: Also I hate temple dogs so much and want them to have less health, I have been whining for this since they were added. Geight fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 00:55
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