|
I have very limited gamepad experience but I think the game is a lot smoother with M&K. I found aiming to be quite a lot easier, anyway. I probably wouldn't bother trying to get to Pizza Sewer and YV's Mansion in the same run, and there's really no reason to go to YV's Mansion if you already have a golden weapon you're satisfied with. The enemies are dangerous, you don't get much more for rads than you would on 3-2, and the weapon drop is guaranteed to be gold, which you don't want if you already are satisfied with your golden weapon. Pizza Sewer is always good to go to though, and as far as explosive weapons are concerned the basic grenade launcher is probably the least likely to kill you (and it's a decent weapon in its own right).
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 16:18 |
|
|
Eh, you only need a screwdriver up until 2-1 and you can manage just fine with your alternate weapon until then. Or use the screwdriver as an excuse to practice melee'ing, which is a perfectly valid weapon set in a game about guns. A grenade launcher is also a decent weapon in its own right while the monster density isn't that extreme; you just have to be careful about not letting it explode in your face while you don't have Boiling Veins. ^ Edit: Decent high 5 and eb;f
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
Sage Grimm posted:Eh, you only need a screwdriver up until 2-1 and you can manage just fine with your alternate weapon until then. Sage Grimm posted:Or use the screwdriver as an excuse to practice melee'ing, which is a perfectly valid weapon set in a game about guns.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:09
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:Not only is it valid, after a certain length of run it becomes essential! Eh, you can go an awful long way with as Horror with Anomaly and an SPC...so long as you don't take Crown of Blood anyway. Enter level, fire once or twice, level ends, pick up loot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:Yeah, but there's essentially no benefit to going to YV's mansion unless you don't have a golden weapon on that character(and you can't use those on dailies so big deal) You can only play one daily a day, and not everyone is trying to be a leaderboard contender, so it's not completely meaningless.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:Not only is it valid, after a certain length of run it becomes essential! That's actually one of my biggest problems with this game as a person with around a hundred hours that'll loop once or twice on a good day maybe. Anytime I don't take a melee weapon I always feel like I'm gimping myself for the sake of having fun loving around with other guns, even on sick runs where I get stuff like auto-crossbow + bone marrow/ flak cannon + shotgun I mostly exclusively play this game while drinking and listening to podcasts though, so part of that is definitely just on me. Also this hasn't stopped at any point made me want to stop playing so it's obviously not that big a deal, but it's still one of the few actual gripes I have about this game. Wrist Watch fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jan 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
You only "need" a melee weapon if you're taking Crown of Blood every run and shooting for leaderboards, or you're at the point where you're consistently reaching loop 2. You can make it through loop 1 with any high-tier weapon combo; I just came off a run that died in early loop 2 with the Grenade Rifle and Hyper Rifle. Hammerhead is more important imo. However playing while drinking is almost certainly the biggest handicap, if you're anything like me. e: Just had a 7-streak as Eyes. Eyes is good.  My 8th run ended with me grenading myself on 1-2, because earlier I said the grenade launcher is least likely to kill yourself.
RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jan 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:You only "need" a melee weapon if you're taking Crown of Blood every run and shooting for leaderboards, or you're at the point where you're consistently reaching loop 2. You can make it through loop 1 with any high-tier weapon combo;
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
I was responding to Wrist Watch.  High score runs are pretty samey though, which is mostly why I just play for distance instead. Once you hit loop 2 you're pretty likely to just drown in cops and die no matter what you're using 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
i can't imagine not using a melee weapon or wanting to use shotguns (outside of assault/gatling slugger) or assault rifles
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
In a game with a ton of cool guns, using a melee weapon is a little simple (though it is effective). Meanwhile, maybe you don't want to use shotguns or rifles or whatever but you have to play the hand you're dealt sometimes. You can't count on getting an SPC every game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 20:18
|
|
|
I like that most guns are viable in this game, I love shotguns at the start, and the flame shotgun really holds up a long time. Assault rifles have pretty much the best DPS for bullet weapons if you discount the minigun (it's too inaccurate) until you find a hyper rifle. I play crystal mainly so I don't need a melee weapon until way into loop 2 to survive with crown of blood. Works pretty well, I'm currently number 186 all time on the leaderboards (but that's more an endurance measurement), and I've been scoring pretty consistently in the top ~100 when a daily goes well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 20:20
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:You only "need" a melee weapon if you're taking Crown of Blood every run and shooting for leaderboards, or you're at the point where you're consistently reaching loop 2. You can make it through loop 1 with any high-tier weapon combo; I just came off a run that died in early loop 2 with the Grenade Rifle and Hyper Rifle. Hammerhead is more important imo. Yeah, pretty much. Like I said, I know full well that it's basically entirely my own dumb problem, I usually dodge pretty well when I start but after a few drinks I guess I just start treating the game like melee weapons are a necessity at all times instead of optional. oddium posted:i can't imagine not using a melee weapon or wanting to use shotguns (outside of assault/gatling slugger) or assault rifles You can do way worse early game than the assault rifle, there's better guns around but I've found it doesn't really fall off until Frozen City. Shotguns beside the flame ones are kinda garbage without shotgun shoulders, but with it they're all pretty good. The flame shotguns are all really good though and pump out ridiculous amounts of damage as do both auto shotguns, even without the mutation. The mutation that makes killed enemies go flying off also synergizes super well wth them in general.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
flak cannon is good for a while(especially as YV if you build into your right click) and super flak cannon is good for quite a long time. out of curiosity what's everyone's best score? my best recorded on thronebutt is 4353, I don't remember if I've gotten any a bit better on a non-daily and I can't check because my stats page is still bugged to give me a fatal error whenever I try to check it
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 21:17
|
|
|
My best scores on dailies:
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
My best score is getting Chicken's second skin. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:flak cannon is good for a while(especially as YV if you build into your right click) and super flak cannon is good for quite a long time. I'm a scrublord that doesn't do crown of blood so my best is a paltry 1963 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
 not bad pretty good of course, this was my warmup before the daily, and on the daily I died in a dumb way for a triple digit score
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
I killed a throne once
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
I blast the payday 2 soundtrack as I run around with the heavy machine gun because it sounds awesome and occasionally get to 4 digits of kills
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
I really wish the heavy weapons in general were better. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I really wish the heavy weapons in general were better. They're decent weapons for looping once. My first L'il Hunter kill was with a heavy assault rifle, if I recall correctly. Being able to pop out from cover, nail him with 3 decent-damage bullets, then hide again did a lot for my survivability, and it's more spammable and long-range than the usual crossbow, slugger, etc. But yeah, if you try to take them into a loop, you'll run into ammo problems fast. That seems to be the problem with bullet weapons in general; they're just not ammo-efficient enough.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:46
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:flak cannon is good for a while(especially as YV if you build into your right click) and super flak cannon is good for quite a long time. Flak cannon and it's super version are so good that I kind of forget they're in the shotgun category tbh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 00:24
|
|
|
the problem with heavy bullet weapons is not ammo efficiency, it's damage output. all of the heavy bullet weapons have a bit better ammo efficiency than normal bullet weapons(doing 7 damage per 2 bullets instead of 6) but significantly less DPS than even a minigun which shows up noticably earlier(and has fine accuracy for general use, especially crowd situations). let me put it this way: minigun: spawns starting on 3-1, does 100 dps. competes with the auto crossbow which spawns at the same time by doing more damage(auto crossbow does 70 dps) in exchange for not piercing+less accuracy. viable for a long time. hyper rifle: spawns starting on 3-3, does 150 dps with perfect accuracy. the best bullet weapon in the game. heavy revolver: spawns starting at 4-1, does 41.18 dps, aka absolute garbage. heavy machinegun: spawns starting at 5-1(???), also does 41.18 damage despite spawning several levels later, a complete dumpster fire heavy assault rifle: spawns starting at 6-1, does 70 dps. the least awful but still really bad-it's only just now starting to tie with the auto crossbow in damage, but it shows up far far later and does not pierce. hyper rifle kicks the poo poo out of every single heavy bullet weapon(and so does the minigun, even) because heavy bullet weapons trade away frankly irreplaceable amounts of rate of fire which is the only real benefit of bullet weapons and the only thing which makes them competitive with other weapon types at any point in the game. this kills their dps, and all they have to show for it is slightly better ammo efficiency-not even good burst damage either. murdering your enemies dead is much more important than saving a small amount of ammo, so heavy bullet weapons suck! heavy auto crossbow is not bad though, although it was heavily nerfed. used to be godly. heavy slugger is right out
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 02:22
|
|
|
The flak cannon is basically a worse slugger with a tiny amount of crowd control. Super flak is a lightweight SPC though. Heavy slugger is hilarious to try to use because it has a range of about five pixels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
The bad shotgun that I really like is the Eraser. It's not practical at all but it sure is fun anyway. Where does the quad machinegun fall in the DPS chart? In an earlier run I kept a regular minigun over a quad and it felt like the right choice but idk. I like the double mini but even with Recycle Gland you're basically empty as soon as you click the fire button.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
flak cannon is a better slugger. slugger does 22 damage per 0.73 seconds, for 30 dps. flak cannon does 8+3[2]*16(against normal size enemies, you can expect at least roughly half of those 16 pellets to hit, against larger ones most of them will) per 0.87 seconds. which means that against normal enemies you can expect to do around 36 dps, with the side benefit of crowd control meaning you can do up to 55 dps(taking into account the other pellets will be doing 2 damage instead of 3 because they won't be hitting within 2 frames) if other enemies are around. against large enemies like snowbots and rad dogs you can do up to roughly 64 dps because their big bodies eat all the pellets. no matter how you stack it you're better off with a flak cannon. at its lowest damage output it is stronger than a slugger both in sustained fire and in burst damage(which makes it combo better with trigger fingers), and on top of that it has the side benefit of crowd control, better reach around corners and the possibility to do things like shoot at a wall to catch charging snowbots or other tough to hit enemies in the scatter. it also combines better with shotgun shoulders if you wanna build into shell weapons early on. RyokoTK posted:Where does the quad machinegun fall in the DPS chart? In an earlier run I kept a regular minigun over a quad and it felt like the right choice but idk. I like the double mini but even with Recycle Gland you're basically empty as soon as you click the fire button. e: I should mention that against low HP enemies, weapons that do less damage faster or over a wide area can have better actual kill time vs. groups of enemies despite having lower dps than slow single target weapons, but this makes the case for flak cannon over slugger and normal bullet weapons over heavy bullet weapons even stronger because pellets are much better at dealing with groups of squishies than slugs are and normal bullets spread out the damage more than heavy bullets vs. low hp enemies as well. e2: really numbers things like this shouldn't be taken as gospel anyways, it's fine wrt weapons with similar rate of fire/crowd control potential but 'pure DPS' breaks down as a meaningful number once you start looking at actual time to kill different enemies with different weapons taking into account trigger fingers, projectile travel time, etc...(ex: slugger has more DPS than the revolver, but the revolver will kill groups of very low HP enemies like maggots and bandits faster because the big damage per shot from the slugger is wasted vs. them) ...the more meaningful numbers would be kill time tables vs. different enemies with different weapons but mapping that poo poo out in a logical way that is accurate to actual gameplay sounds like a nightmare. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 02:47
|
|
|
Well the ability to efficiently clear chaff is already the (theoretical) appeal of bullets and shotguns, isn't it? I dunno, I don't like bullet weapons. The ammo management issue is just crazy in loop and I feel like you have to be way too choosy when you spray with the big guns, which imo is a little off kilter when you're talking about a double minigun. At least when the SPC burns half your ammo in one shot you're getting a good return on that because the entire room is dead. And if I want a smaller weapon for clearing chaff I'll take a super splinter gun or something any day. Really the only takeaway is that you should focus on guns that feel effective to you imo. I know that the super crossbow is a good gun but I don't like it that much because it's easy to screw yourself ammo-wise; I am more comfortable with either auto crossbow. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 03:17
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:The bad shotgun that I really like is the Eraser. It's not practical at all but it sure is fun anyway. The hell you say, the Eraser is pretty decent as a crossbow-style shotgun. Perfect accuracy and pretty good damage at range. It's not an amazing gun but I'm not gonna complain about it until I get to the Palace, where it starts to lose its shine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 04:07
|
|
|
Played this game for the first time in months and as a middling but experienced player, who usually reached the throne but didn't always finish the loop , my skills were there but my decision making for mutation and guns was just laughable. In the playthrough I was trying to get Melting B skin. I got an auto crossbow in the junk yard, but decided I hadn't seen bolt accuracy and hey here's a hyper rifle... ...this hyper rifle is nice but I bet I'll run out of ammo, I'll use this flak cannon just in this level (I get lazy and leave with it)... ...oh hey bolt marrow mutation. Didn't I used to have an auto crossbow... ...Oh wait little hunter is next level and I have...a flak cannon and a shovel? Yeah I died.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 05:46
|
|
|
Flak Cannon and Shovel can totally beat Lil' Hunter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 05:56
|
|
|
Yeah flak and shovel aren't the best but perfectly serviceable. Ask me about the time I lost a melting b skin run to a mimic chest cause I zoned out after clearing everything else out of palace 2. Actually that's the whole story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 06:48
|
|
|
You can do a lot worse vs. Lil Hunter than Flak since it does moderately good burst damage, so you don't need to keep yourself exposed to him while he sprays at you like a jerk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 06:53
|
|
|
And you have the shovel if you get cornered with one of his tighter bullet waves.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 07:08
|
|
|
I mean, I think I almost had him with the strategy oh shooting him once on landing, then breaking line of sight, and using my two hard hitting slow reloading weapons to alpha strike the cops right as they portal'd . Just, you know, I eventually got hit. I'm just a poor craftsman blaming his tools. Fwiw I kept the f canon over the hyper gun not just because I'd traversed the whole level but also because the f cannon can reach around corners.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 15:16
|
|
|
If I recall correctly, my successful Melting B skin run got an early autocrossbow, then an energy sword, then a super bazooka on the level before the Throne. Practically textbook weapons for that kind of run. Even then the Throne fight was a nailbiter, given the literal hundreds of runs leading up to that point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
iirc my Melting B run was Splinter Gun and Energy Sword, except the chest on 7-3 was the Quad Machinegun so I used that instead of the Splinter Gun for about 4 seconds (and then I ran out of ammo).
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
my melting b was golden wrench and autocrossbow. long arms and bolt marrow i think but no trigger fingers
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
I'm not sure how I never thought to try this before, but if you pick up gamma guts you can literally stand on top of Big Bandit and kill him in like two seconds since he doesn't deal contact damage and gamma guts ticks incredibly fast (every frame maybe? not sure). You can do the same to Big Dog but the bullets spiraling out from him make it suicide, which is how I died testing my newfound strat. I'm pretty sure it was the bullets killing me, but it might have also just been the initial small explosions actually being explosions and not visual effects or something. It all happened pretty quick, so I'm not really sure. I think if you were to say, pick Crystal and also have her throne butt by then you might be able to get away with it because of how stupidly fast gamma guts ticks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2017 06:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 16:18 |
|
|
I wonder if you're in danger of the rockets blowing up on you if you try to pull that as Crystal. She's already good as hell with Gamma Guts though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2017 06:49
|
|