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Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

This is a thread for discussing the work, ideas and life of :cthulhu: Howard Phillips Lovecraft :cthulhu:

Wikipedia says: “ Howard Phillips Lovecraft (/ˈlʌvkræft, -ˌkrɑːft/;[1] August 20, 1890 – March 15, 1937) — known as H.P. Lovecraft — was an American author who achieved posthumous fame through his influential works of horror fiction. Virtually unknown and only published in pulp magazines before he died in poverty, he is now regarded as one of the most significant 20th-century authors in his genre.” He spent most of his life in Providence, RI and apart from a short period in NYC/Brooklyn, he lived there all his life. As well as publishing stories in pulp magazines, he published extensively in the amateur journalism movement of the period and continued extensive correspondences with many colleagues. Almost all his writing has been republished in the last few decades and now available widely.

Here is a good biographical page by ST Joshi, leading HPL scholar: http://www.hplovecraft.com/life/biograph.aspx

So, this is the place to discuss HPL’s writing. Experts and newcomers welcome. :spergin: permitted (within reasonable limits). I don’t think there is any point in using spoilers in this thread because in the end all the characters wind up mad or dead. There is a lot to read, most of it in the form of short stories (various collections and editions). There are one or two novellas (depends how one wants to classify them): The Case of Charles Dexter Ward and At the Mountains of Madness. Don’t forget numerous letters, journalistic articles and some poetry. We can discuss adaptations, films, TV, comics, RPGs, music, conventions, plushies and all the geegaws of modern life that HPL loved so dearly.

…aaaannnd yes, HPL was a massive racist, anti-semite and misogynist. There is no getting around it and none of his fans would deny these aspects though it is worth remembering that HPL lived in a different time and wished he lived 200 years earlier (pre-dating letters to 1720s etc) and no one here is excusing his attitudes, which form the core of a lot of ideas and plots. It is worth mentioning that this antisemitic misogynist also was briefly married a Jewish woman, had Jewish colleagues and towards the end of his life moderated some of his more extreme views on race theory. Any discussion of HPL’s writing inevitably raises some concepts that are strange, outdated and not very popular today. That said, please don’t poo poo up this thread with trolling.

The post below will list recommendations and editions. I am not an HPL expert, so a lot of you guys will know more than me. Please recommend and suggest particularly good stories, books and online articles and they will be added to the second post. I’ll revise it as you contribute.

May your sanity not desert you, seekers of knowledge!

Edit (18/01/15)

From now on :siren: any discussion of racism/sexism should be associated only with specific instances in HPL's writing and you should have something interesting to say about it. :siren:

From now on all low-content "He wasn't so racist!"/ "He was such a racist!" posts will be reported. And if it continues I will close this thread.

Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jan 18, 2015

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Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Placeholder for a list of HPL’s major writings (please check for regular updates):

Fiction:
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward (novella)
At the Mountains of Madness (novella)
various short story collections

Complete/Collected editions:


Poetry:
The Ancient Track: Collected Poetical Works, ed. ST Joshi

Letters:

Journalism:
5 volumes of Collected Essays, ed. ST Joshi, Hippocampus Press covering Journalism, Travel, Philosophy & misc., Literary Reviews, Science

Volume 1: Amateur Journalism

Do you want to read HPL delivering sick ice burn by way of Latin epigram? Do you want to read HPL correcting the grammar of a poem you will never read? Do you want to read HPL’s mini-biographies of fellow amateur writers, especially ones who have not seen print in the last 100 years? Do you want to read HPL’s report on his organisation’s rummage sale? Do you want to read HPL’s solicitations for contributions to the amateur association’s journal? Do you want to read HPL’s petty put-downs of forgotten writers? Do you want over 400 pages of that?

If you answered “yes” to any of those questions then – apart from revealing yourself as a fanboy – you’ll find this is the book for you. HPL was a prolific contributor to amateur journals and was an official in one of the associations. This collects most of HPL’s criticism of amateur writing – so not even comments on Poe, Dunsany, etc. Lot of this is official business and notices and discussions of association matters. Unless you are an HPL completist or writing a paper on amateur journalism in the 1910-1920s then there’s no reason for you to even look at this book. This volume is one of the most tedious books I’ve ever read. It is hugely tiresome.

Oh, hope you brought a spare set of eyeballs with you, because you’ll need them. This book (like all in the set) is printed in 8pt. type. Yes, approx. 1,500 pages of type so small your eyes will bleed.
It can’t be as dull as all that? Well, yes it can but…there are some nice parts. HPL reviews his wife’s journal and announces their marriage. He writes a handful of short articles which are approachable and insightful about the value and drawbacks of the amateur journalism movement (essentially printed blogs – amateurs writing and printing their poems, stories, comic sketches and political ideas in print runs of 12s or low 100s, mainly to be read by friends and fellow writers). There is brief piece on the Irish Question (HPL pro-Brit, anti-Irish). There is one obituary that relates slightly to the Dunwich Horror and nothing else related to HPL’s fiction in the whole book….. The footnotes are useful….. Erm…..

Verdict: Crushingly dull
Lovecraftian appeal: 0/5

Volume 2: Literary Criticism
Okay, this is the real stuff. If you set aside essays on how to write verse and guidance to young writers, this volume has a lot of good material. It contains his long essay discussing weird fiction and the gothic, another on interplanetary fiction, a guide to writing horror stories. It includes summaries of favourite and typical plots devices and themes, break downs of popular horror stories and long critical overviews of Belknap Long and Dunsany. There is a guide to Roman literature and an attack on TS Eliot. There are handful of short discussions of amateur writers which you can skip. Some of the texts have appeared in recent collections. On balance, this is a very interesting and stimulating collection for anyone interested in classic horror fiction and HPL’s own writing.

Verdict: Largely engaging and informative; easy to read
Lovecraftian appeal: 4/5


Biographies and literary studies:
HP Lovecraft: A Biography, by L. Sprague de Camp (1975) - a very readable and informative biography including a lot of original research
I am Providence, by ST Joshi - very large biography available in one or two-vol. versions (2 vol. is longer). Very divisive - see the comments on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Am-Providence-Times-Lovecraft-Volume/dp/1614980519/ref=pd_cp_b_0
Weird Realism, by Graham Harman - a fascinating deconstruction of the logic and philosophy underpinning HPL's writing
Lovecraft: Against the World, Against Life, by Michel Houellebecq - noted French novelist interprets HPL's nihilism

Here is the documentary Fear of the Unknown, available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spoz_1KyZiA

Websites:
http://www.hplovecraft.com/
http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/ (thanks to Pigs Feet on Rye)

Oddities/collectables:
The Shadow Over Innsmouth was HPL's one of only book publication during his lifetime (1936). Only a few copies were printed so to pick up a signed copy will cost you $16,500
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1134835166&searchurl=sortby%3D1%26an%3Dlovecraft
the other book is The Cats of Ulthar (1935), only 42 copies of this. This copy is priced at $18,000.http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1103039220&searchurl=sortby%3D1%26an%3Dlovecraft
Letters to Frank Bellknap - a cache of 52 original letters, mainly unpublished, will cost you a cool $100,000
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1103039280&searchurl=sortby%3D1%26an%3Dlovecraft

Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 25, 2015

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Here's a query for you. I have read a fair bit but want to get a complete(ish) edition. Any recommendations among these?

Library of America, very classy, cloth cover but expensive and not complete:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/H-P-Lovecra...brary+lovecraft

Knickerbocker Classic, cloth HB and slipcase, is it complete?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Fi...plete+lovecraft

Barnes & Noble, eye-scorcher of a cover (leather? surely leatherette?), claims to be complete:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/H-P-Lovecra...plete+lovecraft

Liveright, large, illustrated and annotated but not complete:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Annotat...ected+lovecraft

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

A very critical review of the Annotated Lovecraft in the New York Review of Books:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/dec/18/hideous-unknown-hp-lovecraft/

And a riposte from Joshi:

http://www.stjoshi.org/review_baxter.html

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

chonz posted:

Are all of Lovecraft's writings considered in the public domain yet?

Good question. I'd like to know that too. For a while there was a copyright struggle over the unpublished stories but as stuff seems to be appearing under a variety of imprints, does that mean the copyright issues have been settled?

Here is a link to a discussion of the matter but I wonder what the current actual status is...

http://lovecraft.wikia.com/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_H._P._Lovecraft

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

The Rat posted:

Has anyone else here read Michel Houellebecq's "Lovecraft: Against the World, Against Life"?

Just re-read it last night and it still holds up as the best analysis of Lovecraft I've come across.

Nice one. I'll add that to the OP. Isn't that one with crits by Stephen King and Houellebecq and stories by HPL all in one volume?

I can't remember it in detail but I thought it was an intelligent approach. There is a critical analysis of H. coming out and I wonder if it will mention HPL's influence on H. H. is a fantastically nihilistic (though also moral) writer and I can see HPL's misanthropic tendency would appeal to him. Initially you would say H. and HPL are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to sex but I think they are both as suspicious about women.

You should have a look at Harman's book, if you haven't already.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

The Rat posted:

It's got an intro by King, then Houellebecq's stuff, then a couple Lovecraft stories. I think "Call of Cthulhu" and "The Whisperer in Darkness."

That's the one.


Nanomashoes posted:

Lovecraft is actually a really terrible writer, and a massive racist to boot, and should just be forgotten forever like every other weird tales writer.

You are objectively right. We will revise our opinions accordingly.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

...and Ray Bradbury.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."


Weird tribute to a teetotal author.

Fun fact: Charles Bukowski's main publisher, John Martin, was teetotal.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

:words: Racism chat: hmmm... I think this is something that really depends on where and when you look. It's pretty incontrovertible that HPL held some views that were racist (even in his own time) and this coloured his outlook on society, politics and literature. But we also have to consider HPL's racism as essentially fearful conservativism of a semi-recluse who was deeply wedded to an Anglo-Saxon colonial period and concerned about the loss of that history and privilege to immigrants and non-whites. His racism was essentially hostility towards social change. HPL was also very genteel in person and wasn't abusive face-to-face (so "manners" or "cowardice", dependent on how you interpret that). His racism and anti-semitism is also a product of resentment of his poverty and lack of recognition as a writer, which forced him to live the life of a hack rather than a gentleman writer. It is a transference of frustration. Not that this makes his views more acceptable. Contemporaries such as HG Wells actually advocated eugenics as a social platform. I'm not sure HPL ever did that (though feel free to correct me on that!).

What you see depends where you look (the letters are strongly racist when he was writing to receptive correspondents, also some of the stories and poems) - in the journalism much less so. Also it depends when you look. In his middle years his racism was strongest, in his later years he wrote that he regretted his extremism and that he came to take a more moderate political position (possibly due to his travels and his marriage). I don't think HPL ever set forth a racist ideology as logical or pseudo-scientific - which shows that he perhaps didn't think he could justify his views before an educated audience. He became a bit unstuck when during the First World War when he attempted to be both anti-German and pro-Teutonic at the same time. He probably realised that (and his racism) was more of an emotional stance rather than anything he could justify with facts.

I think is possible to be sympathetic to HPL as a person and writer, to respond to his writing (which is at times racist) and yet reject his racism. It is HPL's deep-seated fear of the other (Jew, Black, woman, foreigner, alien) that drives his writing and without that deep compulsion (which also produced his racism) he would never have written anything really fascinating.

So although I don't think it is a case of "the answer is somewhere in the middle", it is more a case of "yes, there is evidence both ways". I don't think that "HPL was more/less racist than you say!" is getting us anywhere.

E: It would be best is we discuss examples of racism and racial fear/theory in the writing rather than using it as a label for the man.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Croisquessein posted:

I forgot about his crazy mother. Though I seem to remember he had a good relationship with his aunts.

I don't think hated his mother but just found her difficult to be with and resented the way her mothering had left him. I don't think HPL hated his wife during or after the marriage. The evidence is that they were relatively compatible but that his refusal to take full-time employment and the necessity of her moving for work put the relationship under stress. HPL wasn't really cut out for marriage because of his solitary nature and his attitudes towards money. He also was not ready to adjust to life outside of Providence. I think that if Sonia had had some employment in Providence and that money had been less of a problem that the marriage would have continued.

HPL is more of a gynaephobe than a misogynist.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Guys, I think we've found some common ground:
A) Racism is bad.
B) HPL expressed racist views in some of his writing.
C) Racism in HPL's stories can be offputting.
Lots of us here don't need this pointed out.

From now on :siren: any discussion of racism/sexism should be associated only with specific instances in HPL's writing and you should have something interesting to say about it. :siren:

From now on all low-content "He wasn't so racist!"/ "He was such a racist!" posts will be reported. And if it continues I will close this thread.

Pioneer42 posted:

This entire thread will only ever contain racism posts, so might as well just rename it and get it over with.

I fear you may be right.... :(

E: This is going in the OP

Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 18, 2015

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

HPL was a polymath autodidact - which can go for and against a person. Means they are very knowledgable about a subject but can overlook basic aspects and concepts that get taught to people who study conventionally. It also means they can hold weird, cranky views on topics without encountering opposition. They can also be super touchy about having their expertise questioned. It's something like a prototype of the nerd culture - someone who can sperg like a champion but misses some essential aspects of appreciation, can't see the bigger picture and can't view a subject with distance.

I don't think HPL was exactly like that, though you do see traces of it. HPL actually had a deep understanding of many subjects. You can learn a fair bit about certain subjects from him but unfortunately - as anyone who has worked on a dissertation on an academic subject will tell you - about 1/2 to 3/4 of science and history established as fact in 1920 has now been proved wrong. That's no reason for any of us to feel superior - people will be shaking their heads over our conventional wisdom 100 years from now.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Another thing to remember is that by the time he began to relax in terms of personal and social (and political) attitudes he had almost stopped writing fiction. So those changed attitudes don't make it into the stories. Also, to be honest, there isn't much impetus to put in inclusive, progressive and positive views into a horror story. (At least, these are not views that really adapt well to horror story tropes, especially the ones that HPL adhered to or invented.) So the slowing of his production then dealing with cancer meant that there wasn't much chance to see HPL's intellectual development in his fiction over his last years. I don't know his letters well enough to speak on that aspect.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Regarding HA's posting above, I agree.

Back to HPL....Recklessly I bought all 5 volumes of HPL’s Collected Essays, so you can get first-hand reviews of them. (Which will be added to the OP.)

Volume 1: Amateur Journalism

Do you want to read HPL delivering sick :iceburn: by way of Latin epigram? :hist101: Do you want to read HPL correcting the grammar of a poem you will never read? :monocle: Do you want to read HPL’s mini-biographies of fellow amateur writers, especially ones who have not seen print in the last 100 years? Do you want to read HPL’s report on his organisation’s rummage sale? Do you want to read HPL’s solicitations for contributions to the amateur association’s journal? Do you want to read HPL’s petty put-downs of forgotten writers? Do you want over 400 pages of that?

If you answered “yes” to any of those questions then – apart from revealing yourself as a fanboy – you’ll find this is the book for you. HPL was a prolific contributor to amateur journals and was an official in one of the associations. This collects most of HPL’s criticism of amateur writing – so not even comments on Poe, Dunsany, etc. Lot of this is official business and notices and discussions of association matters. Unless you are an HPL completist or writing a paper on amateur journalism in the 1910-1920s then there’s no reason for you to even look at this book. This volume is one of the most tedious books I’ve ever read. It is hugely tiresome.

Oh, hope you brought a spare set of eyeballs with you, because you’ll need them. This book (like all in the set) is printed in 8pt. type. Yes, approx. 1,500 pages of type so small your eyes will bleed.
It can’t be as dull as all that? Well, yes it can but…there are some nice parts. HPL reviews his wife’s journal and announces their marriage. He writes a handful of short articles which are approachable and insightful about the value and drawbacks of the amateur journalism movement (essentially printed blogs – amateurs writing and printing their poems, stories, comic sketches and political ideas in print runs of 12s or low 100s, mainly to be read by friends and fellow writers). There is brief piece on the Irish Question (HPL pro-Brit, anti-Irish). There is one obituary that relates slightly to the Dunwich Horror and nothing else related to HPL’s fiction in the whole book….. The footnotes are useful….. Erm…..

Verdict: Crushingly dull

Lovecraftian appeal: 0/5

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Volume 2: Literary Criticism

Okay, this is the real stuff. If you set aside essays on how to write verse and guidance to young writers, this volume has a lot of good material. It contains his long essay discussing weird fiction and the gothic, another on interplanetary fiction, a guide to writing horror stories. It includes summaries of favourite and typical plots devices and themes, break downs of popular horror stories and long critical overviews of Belknap Long and Dunsany. There is a guide to Roman literature and an attack on TS Eliot. There are handful of short discussions of amateur writers which you can skip. Some of the texts have appeared in recent collections. On balance, this is a very interesting and stimulating collection for anyone interested in classic horror fiction and HPL’s own writing.

Verdict: Largely engaging and informative; easy to read

Lovecraftian appeal: 4/5 :cthulhu: :cthulhu: :cthulhu: :cthulhu:

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Volume 3: Science

This should be renamed “Astronomy” because it is essentially all about astronomy. HPL was a keen astronomer and wanted to go into that field, only his nervous breakdown and poor grades (can’t remember which came first) prevented him from taking up science as a career. HPL wrote astronomy columns for local newspapers and this volume collects most of them. They are well written and informative. He discusses coming celestial events, what to look for, history of astronomy and some of the myths behind the naming of celestial bodies. Obviously, some of this information is out of date (especially about the planets) but the essentials remain. If you have even a passing interest and knowledge of astronomy, this is a good read, though most of the pieces are only 2 pages long (some with HPL’s rough star charts). The best parts are the longer guides to astronomy that were serialised in the press. These are very approachable. HPL would have made a good populariser of astronomy (think Neil Degrasse Tyson’s exact opposite physically, but with a parallel gift for communication).

There are short pieces on interplanetary travel, the discovery of new planets, life on other planets but be warned – these are very short. There are also 10 pages of so on a spat with an astrologer. HPL hated astrology and poured scorn on the practice. There is a summary of arguments to be made in book chapters he was due to write for Houdini. He was going to demolish superstition, astrology, religion and so forth but Houdini died before HPL could start writing it up, so it never progressed beyond note form. Overall, these asides amount to about 30 pages out of 350.

Rating this is difficult, because while it is informative and readable (unlike vol. 1) it is – like vol. 1 – not really relevant to HPL’s fiction, though stars and space travel do feature tangentially in HPL’s fiction. If you engage with this subject you’ll enjoy this but if you are looking for Lovecraftian sources then there is little here for you.

Verdict: Engaging pieces about astronomy but not essential HPL.

Lovecraftian appeal: 1/5 :cthulhu:

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Volume 4: Travel

This had the potential to be one of the more interesting collections but it is quite frustrating. There are two big drawbacks with HPL’s travel writing. First, HPL refuses to notice almost anything after 1776. So he will describe colonial architecture and history for a place then largely omit anything barbarously modern. This gives a weird impression of HPL as a tour guide who only read the first chapters of a local history book. He largely fails to describe how the cities were then (1930-6). We get no idea of the reality of the places he is visiting, which would have been fascinating. Instead we get HPL as antiquarian and before you say “that’s what he did best”, consider how much of HPL’s special feeling comes from the modern overlaying a deep stratum of history and below that an ancient pre-history. In these pieces we never encounter a railroad, telephone, telegraph, soda bar or motor car. We never encounter any people except as race markers – noble patricians of ancient lineage or despicable Jews and stupid negroes. Never a single conversation with a local is recorded.

Second, the prose is imitation 18th century – so we get “majestick”, “shewn”, “number’d” and so on. It is well done but it gets tiring and it is really out of place when (rarely) discusses anything modern – usually an account of a historical building being destroyed or altered. HPL rarely wrote stories entirely in the old style, saving it for extracts of ancient accounts and discovered manuscripts within longer pieces, so we didn’t have to read – as we do here – 300 pages in this style, often in long descriptive paragraphs (1-2 pages).

So what does he write about? Most of the book is taken up by descriptions of Charleston, VA and Quebec city, with brief pieces on VT, VA, ML, MA, NY (Albany not NYC). It includes HPL’s maps, plans and drawings of buildings. Lots of the pieces are historical and relate to the history of the architecture and military events. Overall, the descriptions are readable, though you don’t get much idea of the present day (1930) reality of the places but the historical passages are pretty dense. You do get a feeling for some of the places that inspired stories. If you want HPL travel writing in a slightly more lively style (and shorter) then you would do better to read the letters.

Summary: Often interesting but slow reading. Nothing essential.

Lovecraftian appeal: 2/5 :cthulhu: :cthulhu:

Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jan 30, 2015

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

thehomemaster posted:

Finally got this one!



From the quick look through it seems like it will satisfy my need to delve into Lovecraft's worlds more, given I have already read all his major works.

Looking good! Let us know how it is.

Update: I've just finished vol. 4 (travel) and gently caress me, that was boring! I am downgrading that to a single :cthulhu: Seriously - gently caress that book. Unless you personally know the cities he's discussing or are actually there and using his texts as guides, there is nothing here for you.

You'll have to wait for vol. 5 report as I have 1,500 pages on western philosophy and 500 pages of contemporary European literature to read before I can get back to this.

If I haven't resurfaced by the end of this month, send a shoggoth to fetch me.

Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Feb 19, 2015

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

I think All Pro Sexman has it right. HPL was deeply conservative and introverted (especially when young) and was opposed to progressive. He thought American independence was a big mistake. Naturally, he was going to oppose essentially all social change - women's rights, extension of the voting franchise, changes in social habits, immigration. If you have that mind set then virtually everything seems hostile and disturbing. The racism arises from that. HPL was explicitly racist and that led to a lot of the themes (and sub-texts) of his fiction but the essential cause wasn't responding to scientific theory about racial inferiority but conservative resistance to social/political change. So you are both right.

Ahhhh, South Park, what you have taught us! The truth IS somewhere in the middle.

:glomp:

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

And finally.....

Volume 5: Philosophy, Autobiography & Miscellany

This contains HPL's political essays (Communism and the New Deal), comments on philosophy (Nietzsche, Christianity, cosmology) and social questions. He writes compares cats to dogs (HPL was a cat man). He discusses his philosophy of fiction and defends his stories. It contains his 1925 New York diary - but don't get excited. It is all "Woke late - paid rent - saw KS - lunch at Tiffany - wrote late - retired 3 a.m.". What was he writing? Don't know. What did he eat? Don't know. What did he talk about? Don't know. You'll have to go to the letters for that info.

The most interesting pieces are notes/research for some of his long stories, unwritten stories and short summaries of unwritten stories and incidents. These were later mined by his writer friends but if you fancy using them for the basis of your own stories - here they are!

The autobiographic sketches are very short and nothing you don't already know. There is his literary will (the only thing he wrote in 1937, except for diary - which only mentions medical treatments and the pain he was in :( ).

Then there are lists: of his fiction; reading lists; addresses; publications; titles of poems; chronologies. It also contains an index for all 5 volumes.

Summary: Fascinating but bitty

Verdict: :cthulhu: :cthulhu: :cthulhu: (because there is no way to give it three and a half :cthulhu: )

Overall: Consider reading vol. 2 and 4, vol. 3 is kind of informative about astronomy and vols. 1 and 4 are to be avoided.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

For any of you interested in HPL's notes for potential stories, the text (which is Essay vol. 5) is online here:

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/h-p-lovecrafts-commonplace-book/

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Does anyone who has read the biographies recently remember why HPL wrote so little in his last few years? I know he was sick for about the last 6 months but the last short story was in 1935. Does anyone know what reasons were suggested for his dry spell for almost 2 years at the end?

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Pththya-lyi posted:

The Dutch language!:supaburn:

No good can come of the Dutch language.... :pipe:

Can anyone tell me what the situation is with copyright currently? For the uninitiated, the situation was that HPL work published during his lifetime were due to leave copyright in the 1990s? 2000s? but Arkham House was claiming it had renewed copyright so that everything was still copyrighted. Previously unpublished work stays copyrighted by the first publisher for a period, so the letters are all still copyrighted. Has the copyright situation been clarified or is it still a mess?

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding the books of letters? Any that stand out?

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

End Of Worlds posted:

i support this soley because s t joshi is a psychotic parody of a scholar

How so? I thought that although he downplayed the racism, he was pretty good with technical/archival/textual stuff.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Snapchat A Titty posted:

the award statuette should be H.P. Barnacle imo

Why the long face? :)

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Remind me, are the stories published in the 20s and 30s considered public domain yet?

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Turtlicious posted:

I've got 4 days to put together a Tabletop RPG in this setting, I have never read a lovecraft book, (scared off for reasons not related to horror.) I want to get well versed enough to capture the feel of it for 4 or 5 hours. Does anyone have a great place to start? Audiobooks / Radio Plays are preferred to almost anything else. Even more so, are compendiums that quickly help me get to that point.

Call of Cthulhu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM9Z39D1yyI

Colour out of Space:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXyda5iiGEo

Rats in the Walls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBiMYhA9cMY

First 2 are under 90min and the 3rd is 46min. All strong stories and typical. Not too much racism.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Darth Walrus posted:

I'd be real hesitant about classing Rats in the Walls under 'not too much racism', unless you want to make the argument that it's about the exceptionally racist protagonist getting his worldview overturned by his own ultra-white family's history of savagery.

Fair enough. I haven't heard it in a while.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
Has anyone read anything by HPL's wife? She was a professional writer/amateur journalist. I doubt anything is in print now (or perhaps print on demand?) but I'd be surprised if pieces haven't been reprinted at some stage.

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

The letters from HPL to Robert E Howard are republished this week after being unavailable and ridiculously expensive secondhand ($80-100). Has anyone read them? Are they worth getting?

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Good hurting?

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Interesting article on the history of Arkham House, the publishers who kept HPL's work alive after his death:

https://www.lwcurrey.com/arkham-house-archive.php

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Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Xotl posted:

I wonder if I can find $415,000 in my sofa cushions.

Dunno. Have you had Lowtax to stay over recently?

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