IndyCar 2015: It's in Jeopardy!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > IndyCar 2015: It's in Jeopardy!

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

I did some digging around last night out of boredom and stumbled upon some old tobacco documents.

http://www.pmdocs.com/core/downloadText?IDX=1&CVSID=def0e2b53cceea1dba688fee7c0fd300

Oh boy...Tony George was a vindictive rear end in a top hat.

quote:

38. Defendant Tony George had a seat on the CART Board
of Directors from July, 1992 until he resigned from that position
in January, 1994. George obtained the seat in connection with
terms which he dictated to CART in July, 1992, including requiring
the assignment to IMS of the trademark and logo which is in part
the subject matter of this Complaint. See Exhibit 1 to this
Complaint.

46. In November of 1991, Tony George and the IMS
presented a "proposal" to the CART Board for a new unified
governing body for the sport, which included a smaller governing
board (the CART Board then consisted of 24 votes). The IMS
proposal was rejected by CART, because it provided for a majority
control of the new Board to be comprised of IMS/USAC designees.
47. In July of 1992, Tony George peremptorily informed
the CART Board that the Indy 500 would no longer remain part of the
PPG Indy Car World Series unless CART: (1) reduced the size of its
Board; (2) added George to the smaller Board; and (3) entered into
a Licensing Agreement with the IMS to declare IMS the owner of the
logo and Mark (with an exclusive license to CART for usage
thereof). See Exhibit 1.11. t1Z 4p.

1996 INDIANAPOLIS 500 - SITUATION REPORT

1. Twenty five of the thirty three starring positions at the 1996 Indianapolis 500 are removed for
entries with points from Indianapolis Racing League (I.R.L) races under rules newly instituted by
Indianapolis Motor Speedway president, Tony George, to encourage participation in the U LL which
he recently set up as a rival for the established Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc. (C.ART.)
PPG IndyCar World Series.. In other words, unless you compete in the early season LRL. races only
eight spots are open in the lady 500 field.

Z. Also, 1996 I.R.L. races (including the Indy 500) are open only to cars built to 1995 lady car
rules which do not include a nwuber of driver uf'ety improvements required by 1996 CART. rules.
Moreover, 1995 cola have substantially more downforoe because `96 C.A..-T. rules mandate reduced
downforce in the interests of safety. Ironically, the 1996 C.ART. rules were drafted in accordance
with principles recommended by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and with the full knowledge and
agreement of Mike Devin, Technical Director of the Indy 500.

In addition, the 1997 I.R.L. rules obsolete all of the current IndyCar engines and will effectively .
exclude Honda, Mercedes and Toyota from the series in favor of what amounts to a stock block
"spec" erne on the highly questionable rationale that this will be a cheaper formula.

3. C.ART. already has a schedule of sixteen races for 1996 all of which every CART TEAM is
contractually committed to nm Several I.RL dates conflict with scheduled C.AAT's races and
several are at venues which are not particularly desirable insofar as C.A.R.T. is concerned

4. The I.R.L. entry blank for its first race at Disney World specifies that Car Owners and Drivers
must consent to the use of their names, pictures, likeness and performance in anyway or medium by
the promoter or LRL. for advertising the Disney event or M_othrx I.R.L. events before or after the
Disney race. Also included is a relinquishment of rights to the I.RL, or its assigns for sales and other
commercial purposes. This advertising release is much broader than the release required for the
Indianapolis 500. The promoter or I.R.L. could either into a third party licensing contract and the
Teams and/or Drivers would grant the third party unlimited world-wide relinquishment of rights,
without compensation The question also arises as to how the Teams' sponsors' trademarks would be
protected under this scenario.

5. The Indy 500 has always been for the fastest 33 qualifiers and throughout the year both
C.A R-T. officials and car owners have repeatedly asked Tony George to return to that format, but
these efforts have been steadfastly refused. In April, at the instigation of Bill France, Andrew Craig,
Roger Penske, Les Richter, John Cooper and Bill France met with Tony George and Jack Long of the
I, RL. in New York. They offered to re-form the C.A.R.T. board to satisfy objectives previously,
stated as essential to Tony George with only three "car owner" directors plus three "race promoter"
directors and three "at large" directors, but even this offer was curtly refused.

6. Accordingly, at their Board Meeting on November 17th, the C.ART. directors instructed
CEO, Andrew Craig, to plan an alternative C.A.RT. race on the same date as the Indianapolis 500
and to present those plans to the Board for approval at their meeting on December 18th- In the
meantime, efforts to resolve the differences between CART. and Tony George will continue.
However, unless the C.A.RT. members are willing to surrender total control of their business to Tony
George, it appears unlikely that such a resolution. will, be found

FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 2, 2016

# ? Jan 2, 2016 20:27

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# ? May 2, 2024 05:11

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

VikingSkull posted:

e2- and Fuzzy is right, the most popular form of racing in the US from around 1948-1980 was modified stock cars, either dirt or pavement. Guys like Richie Evans and Buzzie Reutimann could have went to Indy or Daytona and multiple stars from either side openly said that they'd have to take a pay cut to do either.

On the same website I stumbled upon, they had a research paper done in regards to CART. This is around 1993/1994 when the sport was likely at it's peak and all.

quote:

Geographic Distribution
IndyCar has a very broadly based fan group. When comparing the geographic distribution of IndyCar fans with that of the population as a whole, it is striking how closely the two are matched. . The only biases are (predictably) a greater concentration of the sport's fan base in t IndyCar's East North Central heartland (WI, MI, ILL, IND) and a slight ( and we emphasize slight) weakness in NASCAR's South Atlantic (WV, MD, DE, VA, NC, SC, GA, FL) heartland. The most serious fans of IndyCar were most likely to live in the heartland (26%) and were least often found in the mid-Atlantic states (NY, PA, NJ).

We all know who owns the roost in New England, and the greater NYC area. I've seen your posts and we all know the short track scenes in that area of the country. Hell don't modifieds like attract 60k at New Hampshire during a Cup weekend?

quote:

Fully one in five IndyCar spectators have also been to a NASCAR race in the last year.
This shows the significant cross-over between the fan bases for Indy and NASCAR.
Perhaps predictably, circuit type exercised a huge influence here, with oval races attracting
far more NASCAR fans than street or road tracks. In fact, more than two in five Michigan
race fans had been to a NASCAR race in the last year, making it easily the most popular
attendance sport other than IndyCar for this group. Milwaukee also had a high proportion C4
of NASCAR fans -- at 30% almost double the figure of Detroit and Portland. A minority CP
of fans may just be motor-sports junkies; one in eight also attended IMSA, NHRA and
motorcycle races.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 21:14

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

MIS is way easier to travel to, and park in than the Detroit indycar race, so that might have something to do with it.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 23:23

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

FuzzySkinner posted:

On the same website I stumbled upon, they had a research paper done in regards to CART. This is around 1993/1994 when the sport was likely at it's peak and all.

We all know who owns the roost in New England, and the greater NYC area. I've seen your posts and we all know the short track scenes in that area of the country. Hell don't modifieds like attract 60k at New Hampshire during a Cup weekend?

I don't think 60k but it's a lot. They used to get 70k plus at Syracuse. It really is crazy how modifieds have this small area locked down. There's drag strips here, and a few road courses, but if someone from New Jersey to Maine says they are going to the races, 75% shot it's modifieds on a short track.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 23:34

hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

WindyMan posted:

I wonder how much we can thank/blame the Crapwagon mentality to the rise of the Internet. The ease at which like-minded people could communicate with each other (and hurl abuses anonymously) grew over the same period in which the split was getting worse. Toward the end of the Split, Internet video (YouTube, etc.) was a lot more accessible, allowing these hangers-on the ability to very easily remain in the past by watching old races. Why watch the lovely new stuff when the best of the 80s and early 90s are a few clicks away?

It's easy for any delusional denomination to do that now, but this may have been one of the first groups to take advantage of the Internet to stay in their bubble world indefinitely.

This is kind of how I am with the NHRA. Drag racing was my window into all kinds of racing as a kid, and stuff from the '70s to even the early 2000s I can watch all day. I could not give less of a gently caress about modern day NHRA, although I also don't talk a bunch of poo poo about it online either.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 00:52

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

VikingSkull posted:

I don't think 60k but it's a lot. They used to get 70k plus at Syracuse. It really is crazy how modifieds have this small area locked down. There's drag strips here, and a few road courses, but if someone from New Jersey to Maine says they are going to the races, 75% shot it's modifieds on a short track.

Both USAC/CART and NASCAR hosed up by not investing in Trenton more really. ISC ALMOST had the right idea by building the NYC track, but they should have moved it the 'burbs somewhere. I'll tell you, I think NY/NJ/CT area would be a better place for a track than Kansas, or Joliet.

Same with Formula 1 and The Glen. Outside of Long Beach that's really been the only place where F1 had a good following in the states. Thankfully the France Family did the wise thing and pretty much saved the track. I believe Elmira, NY has one of the highest percentage of stock cars fans in the US for that very reason IIRC.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 01:39

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

I still want to kill the loving MTA for not letting them build that Daytona clone literally 5 minutes from my house.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 02:30

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

I'd be really fascinated to see how racing series break down by popularity in the US via region, and how much cross over there is between fanbases.

Like what percent of people that follow Cup every week are the "auto racing" junkies as described in that study? IndyCar? Sprint Cars? NHRA? Sports Cars? Formula 1?

We have goons in here who follow Cup every week for example, but also try to catch BTCC or V8 SuperCars when they can.

e: Like I imagine a good portion of Indy fans at least try to catch Daytona, and I imagine the reverse is true for NASCAR fans.

FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jan 3, 2016

# ? Jan 3, 2016 07:19

WindyMan: Mar 21, 2002; Respect the power of the wind

FuzzySkinner posted:

I'd be really fascinated to see how racing series break down by popularity in the US via region, and how much cross over there is between fanbases.

Like what percent of people that follow Cup every week are the "auto racing" junkies as described in that study? IndyCar? Sprint Cars? NHRA? Sports Cars? Formula 1?

We have goons in here who follow Cup every week for example, but also try to catch BTCC or V8 SuperCars when they can.

e: Like I imagine a good portion of Indy fans at least try to catch Daytona, and I imagine the reverse is true for NASCAR fans.

Here's my breakdown:

Junkie: IndyCar*, Formula E*, WEC/Endurance Racing, Stadium Super Trucks*, Supercross* (new season starting woo!)

Avid Follower: Sportscars/United Sportscar*, Motorcycle (Irish) Road Racing

Keep Tabs On: Formula 1, V8 Supercars, Rally (Dakar starting woo!), MotoGP

Once in a While: NASCAR Trucks, Touring Cars (BTCC, Japan), NHRA*, Drifting*

Lowest Interest: NASCAR
_{*Have attended races in person. (Wow that many?)}

I'll probably still watch Daytona, but I no longer clear my calendar for it in the same way I would Indy or Le Mans or even Dakar. The problem with NASCAR for me is that it relies too much on engaging with a driver or team and getting entertainment out of rooting for that driver or team to do well against the field, and less about the racing being engaging and entertaining on its own merits. I'll watch part of a race if it's on, but it's hard to stick with it with no horse in the race to root for/against.

This is why I'm batty about Formula E. I went into it knowing little or nothing about the bulk of the field, but drat it if those cars aren't fun to watch. Now that I'm getting familiar with the drivers, it's basically my second-favorite racing series at the moment.

WindyMan fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Jan 3, 2016

# ? Jan 3, 2016 09:36

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

Oh we're to this part of the offseason?

Watch every round of: IndyCar*, Formula 1, WEC, MotoGP

Keep tabs on International sports car racing (basically everything covered by Radio LeMans), Japanese SuperGT, IMSA*

Always want to watch more of V8 Supercars, Japanese Super Formula, Pirelli World Challenge, DTM, basically anything GT3.

Curious glances basically everything else, including NASCAR Cup and NHRA.

This next year is also, finally, loving FINALLY the year I get to races in Japan. It's happening. For real.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 10:07

WindyMan: Mar 21, 2002; Respect the power of the wind

harperdc posted:

This next year is also, finally, loving FINALLY the year I get to races in Japan. It's happening. For real.

You should go to the Japanese drag races.

http://i.imgur.com/MasXWY6.gifv

# ? Jan 3, 2016 10:10

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

FuzzySkinner posted:

I'd be really fascinated to see how racing series break down by popularity in the US via region, and how much cross over there is between fanbases.

Like what percent of people that follow Cup every week are the "auto racing" junkies as described in that study? IndyCar? Sprint Cars? NHRA? Sports Cars? Formula 1?

We have goons in here who follow Cup every week for example, but also try to catch BTCC or V8 SuperCars when they can.

e: Like I imagine a good portion of Indy fans at least try to catch Daytona, and I imagine the reverse is true for NASCAR fans.

i regularly watch F1, indycar, and nascar (i've attended races for all three), and then specific races in other series (le mans, daytona 24). i try to keep up on news for WEC, motoGP, WRC, and formula E, but i rarely watch any of them. i keep telling myself i'll find a dirt track near pittsburgh but i've never gotten around to it.

it's a lot easier to keep up with F1 races since they're on at 8am and don't conflict with anything else.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 18:33

BMB5150: Oct 24, 2010; 2018 Indianapolis 500 Winner

Here's my breakdown:

Junkie: IndyCar*, IMSA WeatherTech Series , Sprint Cup*, Blancpain Endurance Series,

Avid Follower: WEC, Blancpain Sprint Series,

Keep Tabs On: World of Outlaws*, Camping World Trucks

Once in a While: NHRA*, Formula 1, World Challenge, Continental Sports Car

Should Watch More Of:Formula E, Stadium Super Trucks, Super GT (especially Hindy and crew are doing English commentary)

Lowest Interest: Xfinity Series
_{*Have attended races in person.}

Rules for Formula 1 and Xfinity have just made things unwatchable for me. 2016 and even the new regs for 2017/8 I don't know if it'll solve the problems they have. I'm deep into GT3 racing but prefer the Endurance series since they always have racing happen around the track, which having 60+ car counts, varying degrees of experience helps as compared to the Sprint Series where it's only the best and only about 14 - 16 cars where little happens. Also my great shame that I haven't watched Formula E that much or Stadium Super Trucks... you know what at work I'll get some races loaded up and watch some doing boring monotonous stuff since it's the off season. Cup if the rules didn't change for next year, I'd say my levels of keeping tabs on it would drop, but they seem to have found the right path aero wise.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 18:49

CactusWeasle: Aug 1, 2006; It's not a party until the bomb squad says it is

Watch every round of: IndyCar, Sprint Cup*, BTCC,

TRY to watch every round of and usually fail V8 Supercars, WEC, BES, BSS, IMSA, Formula E, ELMS

If it just happens to be on/low interest F1, NHRA, GP2/3

Literally dont care anymore Xfinity, trucks

_{*Have attended races in person.}

# ? Jan 3, 2016 20:10

George Zimmer: Jun 28, 2008

My breakdown:

Junkie: IndyCar*, Formula One, WEC, MotoGP

Avid Follower: IMSA, Blancpain Sprint/Endurance, PWC, Formula E, vintage racing

Keep Tabs On: NHRA*, WOO*, USAC, BTCC, WRC, WSR, F3

Once in a While: SuperGT, WSB, MotoAmerica*

Lowest Interest: NASCAR of any variety
*Have attended races in person.

I live in Philadelphia for what its worth. There's virtually no sizeable motorsport fanbase here but central PA is a sprint car mecca.

George Zimmer fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jan 3, 2016

# ? Jan 3, 2016 21:30

Full Collapse: Dec 4, 2002

Junkie: IndyCar*

Avid Follower: Formula 1, Formula E

Keep Tabs On: IMSA, WEC, Pirelli WC

Once in a While: NHRA, NASCAR*, SuperGT

Lowest Interest: BTCC

# ? Jan 3, 2016 22:12

Cygni: Nov 12, 2005; raring to post

Watch All: IndyCar, F1, Cup, IMSA, Dakar, LeMans
About Half: Lights, Xfinity, Trucks, PWC, CTSC
If Desperate: NHRA, WEC, V8 Supercars, anything else.
lol no: Formula E

# ? Jan 3, 2016 22:21

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

I follow when most of the open wheel series in North America, Europe, and Japan. I watch Indycar and F1 primarily GP2 and Formula Nippon.

For the Tin Tops, basically Super GT and WEC, with some ALMS are what I pay attention to.

Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jan 3, 2016

# ? Jan 3, 2016 23:06

Bentai: Jul 8, 2004; NERF THIS!

Junkie: IndyCar*

Avid Follower: :shrug:

Keep Tabs On: Formula E, WEC/Endurance Racing, Stadium Super Trucks*, IMSA*, PWC*

Once in a While: Formula 1, Rally, V8 (really only Bathurst)

Lowest Interest/Desperate: NASCAR*, NASCAR Trucks*, Drifting*, NHRA, other
^{*Have attended races in person.}

I don't really know why Indy has hit such a nerve for me that no other series has managed. I think the last time I was really into a racing series was WRC, back when they had a recap/highlight package on Speed TV.`

# ? Jan 3, 2016 23:07

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

I have an extreme antipathy towards drifting.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 23:10

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

Human Grand Prix posted:

I have an extreme antipathy towards drifting.

I have a respect for it because it's real tough, and because the car builds are pretty awesome. Japanese and American pro drifting are also two completely different worlds too, D1 GP is a fun live event but impossible to follow if you don't buy Option DVDs (hmmmm). Formula D is a lot more welcoming.

In both cases, it's the only real place in contemporary motorsports where you get small teams making cool stuff. You know, like backyard guys and small groups would do for Indy back in the day...

# ? Jan 4, 2016 03:38

Full Collapse: Dec 4, 2002

We should all accept that GRC will replace everything we love and hold dear.

# ? Jan 4, 2016 03:41

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

harperdc posted:

I have a respect for it because it's real tough, and because the car builds are pretty awesome. Japanese and American pro drifting are also two completely different worlds too, D1 GP is a fun live event but impossible to follow if you don't buy Option DVDs (hmmmm). Formula D is a lot more welcoming.

In both cases, it's the only real place in contemporary motorsports where you get small teams making cool stuff. You know, like backyard guys and small groups would do for Indy back in the day...

I don't know about that. The coolest stuff on the grassroots level comes from those insane Time Attack cars.

Perhaps I just don't like the culture surrounding it. I used to read (terrible) car forums and the drifting guys were collosal shitlords.

Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jan 4, 2016

# ? Jan 4, 2016 03:47

Full Collapse: Dec 4, 2002

Time Attack owns.

# ? Jan 4, 2016 03:57

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

I do it on a very amateur level, my Toyota is basically stock. I would highly recommend it, it's one of the cheapest ways to compete and you can do it with a street driven car.

# ? Jan 4, 2016 04:06

GutBomb: Jun 15, 2005; Dude?

Junkie: IndyCar, Formula 1, Formula E, MotoGP

Avid Follower: WRC, Le Mans

Keep Tabs On: LeMons

Once in a While: Formula D, V8 Supercars

Lowest Interest:NASCAR

# ? Jan 4, 2016 21:23

WindyMan: Mar 21, 2002; Respect the power of the wind

Andretti is putting up RHR's Indy-winning chassis up for auction. The winning bidder is going to have to wait for a while to pick it up, though�

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/124911-indycar-bizarre-auction-puts-hunter-reay-s-current-indy-car-up-for-bid

# ? Jan 4, 2016 22:14

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

It also comes with race tickets and hospitality tent access (the Andrettis don't gently caress around on hospitality food!). I'm sure it will end up with the buyer, at least once, trying to tell Ryan not to wreck *their* car.

Also, given that the car is oval-only from now on... perhaps this is a play to fund a fresh (possibly lighter) DW12 tub for road/street use? It's not like AA doesn't have a shitload of experience now in swapping three/four DW12s from oval to road and back on a weekly basis.

# ? Jan 4, 2016 22:36

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

It is basically a sponsorship package without anything being printed on the car.

Looks like Jr's weird car forest thing might come to an end though.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 01:08

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

To be honest, with how popular vintage racing has become over the past 15 years or so, that's a loving killer idea for funding and to dispose of the cars afterwards. Genius. Only thing I don't like about it is what if RHR wants that car? What if he doesn't, but it wins Indy the next two years? Think maybe he'd want that three time Indy 500 winner in his living room?

And what the gently caress does Honda want the engine back for? loving pricks. Grand pricks, even.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 03:27

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

I just wonder where all the past Indy 500 winners are.

-Penske has all of his out in Arizona so there's quite a hole in the collection at IMS.
- I know that Jim Clark's winner is at the Ford Museum in Detroit.
-the Brawner Hawk is at the Smithsonian. (replica is at IMS)
-I believe a winner from the 20's or so is in private collection from some guy (was featured on a Jay Leno video). Said private collector has said that IMS has been after him for years to buy it.
-Juan Montoya's and Scott Dixon's are in the Ganassi shop over in Zionsville
-Dan Wheldon's 05 winner MAY be at the Andretti shop in Zionsville.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 03:42

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

IIRC there was a documentary I saw that said the majority of Indy 500 winners exist in some form. Very few were MIA.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 04:15

Cygni: Nov 12, 2005; raring to post

VikingSkull posted:

To be honest, with how popular vintage racing has become over the past 15 years or so, that's a loving killer idea for funding and to dispose of the cars afterwards. Genius. Only thing I don't like about it is what if RHR wants that car? What if he doesn't, but it wins Indy the next two years? Think maybe he'd want that three time Indy 500 winner in his living room?

And what the gently caress does Honda want the engine back for? loving pricks. Grand pricks, even.

The engine is leased, its going to be swapped out like 15 more times by the time the car is finally given to its 'owner'. The last engine it runs with hasn't even been cast yet. HPD does lease old engines for vintage runners though, but yeah, it wont be included right now.

Also I seem to remember something similar to this used to happen a lot years ago in sportscars. People would buy cars and then run them in a handful of races just to give them 'racing pedigree', then stash them or sell them. Like the last 333SP frame, Risi ran it in the 02 Daytona 24hr even though it was way out of date just to say it ran.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 04:26

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

I mean, I get why they do it, but you'd figure they'd have a policy that allows a team to, say, run that engine through its natural life yet still provide the option to eventually reunite a powerplant with a historic chassis. Just sucks that theoretically we'll lose the history of those cars far after we learned the lesson about discarding significant race cars.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 04:55

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

Vintage racing is cool, and the cars with no pedigree are actually somewhat affordable. Somebody pulled one of the old Lola-Alfas from a barn, it was obscenely cheap (to buy, that is. I am not sure how it will be able to run).

# ? Jan 5, 2016 06:42

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

VikingSkull posted:

I mean, I get why they do it, but you'd figure they'd have a policy that allows a team to, say, run that engine through its natural life yet still provide the option to eventually reunite a powerplant with a historic chassis. Just sucks that theoretically we'll lose the history of those cars far after we learned the lesson about discarding significant race cars.

Quite a few of the older F1 cars use Judds because of lack of parts availability for the original engines. A shame really...

# ? Jan 5, 2016 06:46

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

FuzzySkinner posted:

-Dan Wheldon's 05 winner MAY be at the Andretti shop in Zionsville.

I can't remember for sure if that's the 500 winner, or if that's the championship winner that year. One is there at the shop, the other is in Honda's possession (along with everything it could ever need to be fired up in the distant future). I want to say it's the 500 car in the shop.

I am also a horrible person who only recently found out about the Penske museum and, worse yet, I still haven't gone.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 06:51

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

IOwnCalculus posted:

I can't remember for sure if that's the 500 winner, or if that's the championship winner that year. One is there at the shop, the other is in Honda's possession (along with everything it could ever need to be fired up in the distant future). I want to say it's the 500 car in the shop.

I am also a horrible person who only recently found out about the Penske museum and, worse yet, I still haven't gone.

Toyota and Honda both have museums some place that have a lot of old CART cars if memory serves correctly. I seem to recall a Kool Green car being on a rack in a pic. some place.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 07:24

Human Grand Prix: Jan 24, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

FuzzySkinner posted:

Toyota and Honda both have museums some place that have a lot of old CART cars if memory serves correctly. I seem to recall a Kool Green car being on a rack in a pic. some place.

Probably their corporate HQs. Would it be possible to run something with a Toyota engine nowadays?

# ? Jan 5, 2016 07:45

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# ? May 2, 2024 05:11

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

Human Grand Prix posted:

Probably their corporate HQs. Would it be possible to run something with a Toyota engine nowadays?

Derrick Walker mentioned the idea of them being open to "production based engines" in the near future, so I imagine in the next gen, perhaps?

But I don't know if they really have the R and D to do it considering how much is being devoted to stock cars. I mean if they were really, really itching to return they could always just badge the Cosworth while starting up another division to work on IMSA and IndyCar.

I honestly think one day we'll see Ford and Toyota back in the series.

# ? Jan 5, 2016 08:40

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