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twodot posted:Ah, here's your problem. Wrongly punished people were punished for a reason. Yes they were, but somehow you are twisting that reason to be their fault. Your complete line of reasoning is flawed. Just stop.
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Jan 1, 2015 23:43
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OwlFancier posted:No, but if part of the argument against the death penalty is that you can't correct the error if it's found out that someone who was executed is innocent, that argument would also have to apply to a lot of other punishments, which are also similarly uncorrectable, yet it is not generally used against anything except the death penalty. I don't know, somehow the death penalty cases seem different. Why would that be? It doesn't have to apply to a lot of other punishments unless they are somehow similar to the death penalty. This is a pretty simple concept, the death penalty is not the same thing as anything else in our justice system. Comparing it to anything else is simply absurd. We can in fact tackle the death penalty without breaking the rest of the system, we can do it in simply and effectively. The justice system is not a house of cards that will crash down if we decide that a certain punishment is too hosed up to keep around.
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Jan 1, 2015 23:55
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twodot posted:Sorry you misunderstand, someone goes to prison for a year, after a year they are let out of prison, at this point their prison sentence can't be stopped. They can not be let out of prison again. If you oppose sentences that can't be stopped, you are opposed to finite prison sentences. Also fines. You do realize that you are essentially arguing that the death penalty as it is is fine, because otherwise we may hold an innocent person in prison for life. Welp, they are hosed anyway! Actually, what the gently caress are you arguing?
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Jan 1, 2015 23:57
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OwlFancier posted:You can argue that the death penalty is both inefficient and ineffective, there are a lot of good arguments against it, but that there is an irrefutable like between it and other punishments is precisely what I am having trouble understanding, you're going to need to explain why. So are you saying if we mistakenly jail someone for 30 years, or we mistakenly put them to death, it is the same thing? So why bother fixing anything, because nothing loving matters? Is that what you are saying? I'm going to say that everyone wanting to end the death penalty cares about those 30 years, probably more than you do. We care about how hosed up it is for innocent people to be in prison. We also have the capacity to tackle the problems involved as a whole and as individual pieces. Yes, it is an overarching problem we face, but it is also mufti-faceted. The home run would be fixing the entire system all at once, the single to left field is fixing the worst aspect of the system now.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:04
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twodot posted:I at no point argued that death penalty is fine. What I've been arguing is that the death penalty is not special in the way people are saying. Punishments carried out can not be revoked. Time can not be undone. The death penalty is bad, but not because it is uniquely irrevocable. Also: See, this is where I just say you are a loving idiot. Yes, I realize I lose the argument at that point, but what the gently caress is there to argue? You are a loving idiot.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:07
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OwlFancier posted:"It is better not to kill an innocent person than to kill them" isn't the argument. That would be the argument for freeing people who have already been wrongfully convicted, if we are discussing the abolition of the death penalty in general, your choice is between decades of what amounts to torture, or death, because the former is far better than the latter, apparently. You don't get to make that choice for other people. Also, it isn't like there isn't a massive movement to end lovely sentencing laws and there isn't a lot of support against throwing innocent people in prison. This isn't an all or nothing type thing. We can do both! The best we can do right now is end the death penalty part and then we can work on getting innocent people out of prison. We can also work on stopping lovely cops and District Attorneys from putting innocent people in prison. Goddamn. How about, we just stop killing people first?
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Jan 2, 2015 00:30
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Caros posted:
Opportunity cost. Or something.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:03
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twodot posted:No? You asked why I think appeals matter, and I told you. I don't understand why you think it's not related. How many people have to tell you that you are an idiot before you get a clue? Edit: The very fact that 2 of you were arguing the same poo poo blows my mind. Get mental help. You are a serial killer or something. The way you think is not normal. Pohl fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 02:15
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stan worship posted:This is a video of Ricky Jackson, a man who spent 39 years in prison for murder. He was wrongfully convicted, and finally exonerated last November. He does seem to regret the loss of time, but he also seems like he's happy to be getting out of prison at any rate. It's almost like it was a good thing, even though it was clearly inferior to having never incarcerated him in the first place... Wait the guy spent 40 years in prison and all the judge had to say was that he should watch who he trusts? loving 
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Jan 2, 2015 02:53
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kierrie posted:Wow, good argument. You certainly convinced me. Excellent! I'm glad I could help.
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Jan 2, 2015 23:19
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Jarmak posted:Dude is walking into a society that's become completely alien to him with a big wad of cash, thats actually very sound advice. Yeah, but he spent 40 years in prison so I'm pretty sure he knows he can't trust anyone. I don't know why, but I just found it to be a really 'gently caress you' thing. He could have just sat the guy down in his chambers and given him a big talk about how crazy life was going to be. While they were actually in court, the judge should have been loving apologizing.
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Jan 2, 2015 23:25
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"Derrick Frazier" posted:Yes I do. Debbie, my Baby, I love you; do you know I love you. You are my life. You are my wife - always stay strong. Stay strong everybody. I am innocent. I am being punished for a crime I did not commit. I have professed my innocence for nine years, and I continue to say I am innocent. Let my people know I love them. We must continue on. Do not give up the fight; do not give up hope for a better future. Because we can make it happen. I love you, I love my son, and I love my daughter. Bruno, Chuckie, Juanita, Ray - I love you, all of you. Stay strong baby. I love you forever. Date of Execution: August 31, 2006 Summary of Incident On June 26, 1997, Frazier and one co-defendant burglarized a private residence. Then they took the property and went next door to a residence where a white female was alone with her son. The victim offered them a ride into town and when she went out to start her vehicle, Frazier followed her. When she went back into the house, he shot her in the face with a 9-millimeter handgun. He then shot her again in the back of the head. The co-defendant shot the son one time in the head and three more times in the chest and abdominal area with a 9-millimeter handgun. Frazier and the co-defendant then took Nutt’s pickup and fled the scene. Co-Defendants Jermain Herron Race and Gender of Victim White Female and White Male
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Jan 2, 2015 23:31
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blarzgh posted:Brief Aside: There is a person who maintains and updates Murderpedia.org regularly. How can you do that and stay sane? Just reading the statements and the crimes makes me feel really loving out of joint.
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Jan 2, 2015 23:56
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