January Navy Thread: no trolling for ARCOMs ITT

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > January Navy Thread: no trolling for ARCOMs ITT

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Seqenenra posted:

For some reason it is considered a leadership failure if you can't fix Little Johnny.

That's a bullshit-rear end, cop-out one-liner that pussy passive-aggressive, spineless careerist butt-darts spew who would rather coddle every last goddamned mouth-breathing gently caress-up than cut their losses and call a spade a spade. I'm all for second or third chances...but at some point you have to be able to look at someone objectively in terms of productivity/output vs time spent coddling/"nurturing" them and go "this person isn't doing loving anything for the Navy except collecting a paycheck that my tax-dollars pay for, gently caress that noise get out."

Ask me how I really feel :smug:

Seqenenra posted:

You must be in 7th Fleet. If anything horrible or even not horrible happens it is a leadership failure here. I don't know if the policy has changed, but a couple of years ago whenever SN Timmy would have some kind of liberty incident, the first khaki would have to explain to Mr. CNFJ himself what happened and where leadership failed.

I was in C7F between 2009-2011. It got so bad in terms of liberty incidents making the Japanese news that *any* incident was followed by an immediate all-hands recall to the ship until every swinging dick was accounted for and whenever the CO felt like letting people go. The entire ship spent more than one weekend aboard ship while sitting in port.

If I recall correctly, the GW was "kicked out" of Yokosuka by C7F once or twice and made to anchor right outside the harbor (like 2 miles away from the shoreline of the base, just close enough so cats living on base could see the towers the lived in).

buttplug fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jan 8, 2015

# ¿ Jan 8, 2015 03:26

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:30

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

vulturesrow posted:

tl;dr: Paging dustynuts

I can never remember this poo poo when I'm PCSing so a few questions, sorry for actual Navy talk:

1) When PCSing, what percentage of advance DLA, per diem, and mileage do you receive?

2) My orders have me going to my next command for a week then to a school for 15 days and then final stop at my gaining command. Will admin at my next command arrange travel for me or do I need to do it myself (yes, I've asked them and I'm waiting for an answer but I want to know the right answer. I've been hosed on this one before)?

I'm going through dig in the JTR but that is painful to put it mildly.

e: If you take less than the authorized time to complete your travel do you still get reimbursed for the entire authorized time?

Short answer regarding your last questionr: no. If you're alloted X days of travel/proceed between two duty stations, you get reimbursed from check-out day X to check-in day Y regardless of what the max authorized time is.

I can't answer the first question, though, I've never been advanced per diem/DLA before I've always just gotten it in one hit on the back-end.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 04:14

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

vulturesrow posted:

Yeah I dug through the JTR and you are right. Also according to the JTR all PCS related advances are paid 100% off the estimate.

#2 is the one I'm really hoping Dusty knows the answer to.

Yea. The JFTR is no bullshit. Both volumes together are like 2,000+ pages or some poo poo, it sucks trying to get a straight answer out of it too because there are so many one-off scenarios and exceptions.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 04:40

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

Ah, cool. I actually agree with it. Even when I was in the LCS program I thought it was stupid they weren't called frigates or corvettes.

And hey, they're just as useless as FFGs to boot....Might as well call it what it is [a missile sponge].

# ¿ Jan 16, 2015 01:21

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

Saying they're useless is a bit of stretch.

How do you figure? Most of the mission modules *still* only exist on paper.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 03:00

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

Right now, it does everything the OHP can do (minus tail ops) but better. The mission modules will add capability beyond that. Even if most of them do end up being vaporware LCS can perform all of the numerous "fleet bitch" roles that we send frigates out to do now and that aren't going to just go away when the OHP's do.

And what's the last useful thing OHP has done? And seriously, that's pretty SWO of you "even if the mission modules end up being vaporware". How about we not take a program that has already ballooned 150% in cost and done nothing of demonstrable value and say it does "everything our most neutered, least-capable platform does" and call it a win. OHP was widdled down to the point of being nothing more than a presence. It's most capable weapons system was a last-defense system on any other CRUDES platform.

This is yet another instance of the surface Navy being sold a bill of goods by contractors who 1) weren't ready to loving deliver and 2) when they did, delivered under-performing crap that was wrapped up in a nice package. Sure, it looks sexy, but it doesn't do jack poo poo.

LCS is nothing more than a glorified speedboat [that burns through a tank of gas at a flank bell in 5 hours].

Calling it a "littoral" combat ship is pretty much a dead giveaway of the mentality that was pervasive when it was blessed off on...Kind of hard to call it littoral when it's supposed to replace FFGs which operate well outside the littorals.

buttplug fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 17, 2015

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 06:14

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

Without inviting the OPSEC fairy's wrath on this thread, there is a very important capability that is only possessed by OHP's and LCS's that has led to some very recent, very newsworthy events. That is in addition to the more mundane tasks they can perform.

You have to step back for a moment and separate the LCS platform, from the LCS program.

I was there in early days of the program. It was, and still is, a dumpster fire. I agree that it has been managed terribly by the Navy and executed horrendously by the contractors. It is the worst of the early 2000's SWE all rolled into one. I will never defend the LCS program, and I think that anyone involved in its procurement should be fired and barred from any work in acquisitions. In fact, as I've said before, if I could go back in time I would probably have tried to get a LA FAYETTE variant minus the fancy air defense capabilities and with a TACTAS or MFTA bolted on.

The platform however is a very different matter.

The LCS ships do exactly what they are needed to do, which is fill in for all of the stupid Phase 0/1 missions that the Navy is expected to perform. A lot of the hate for the ship comes from hate for that mission set because it's not sexy, it's not high speed, it's pretty lovely and boring actually, and since the LCS is a ship that is designed solely to execute that mission set it gets labeled as "useless". However, the bottom line is that that mission set is here to stay. It's not going away. If anything, it's going to get even larger given how the demand signal for CNT/CP/MIO/EMIO/Partnership Stations/etc has grown continuously over the last decade. That demand signal literally cannot be met by building BURKEs. Period. Full stop. You can stomp your feet, and cross your arms, all you want but it's just a fact. That's why I get upset that people say that the LCS is useless. It's because they're wrong, but they can't even comprehend why they're wrong. Complaining that the LCS is not as combat effective or survivable as a BURKE or a TICO is like complaining that an OHIO is bad at air defense. They are not designed to meet the same mission set. They never were. Comparing an LCS to anything not a missileless-OHP is an apples to oranges comparison.

That's why I said before that the proper way to argue about LCS is not complain about it's capabilities, but about the strategy that led to it's development and feeds it's ROC/POE. If you think that the Navy should be 100% geared to fighting the next Big War^TM with a near peer competitor that's fine. There are cogent arguments to be made there. I totally agree that in a Big War maritime strategy, LCS has little to no place. However, that's not the strategy the Navy is operating under. It's not 100% the Navy's fault either, as none of the National Defense Strategies for the last 3 presidents have set that framework. The strategies that have been in place for nearly the last two decades have been one that focuses on low intensity, Phase 0/1 operations.

That all said, the LCS is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, it does exactly what it's supposed to do, and does it rather well. Having served on both an LCS and an FFG I felt way safer on the LCS, so the notion that we should all be outraged about the survivability of the platform is hyperbole. It's Sea Giraffe radar is one of the most capable in the fleet outside of SPY. The SeaRAM is literally the most effective self defense weapon in the fleet outside of possible SM-6 but I haven't seen the all the P_k's for that yet. The 57mm BOFORS is an amazing gun and is better than the 5" in almost every way except max range. They're getting back fitted with 30mm remote cannons to add a little more FAC/FIAC punch. They're getting fitted with Hellfire Longbow to give them a slightly longer stick. These are all things that are explicitly better then the OHP's they're replacing. Are they good as a DDG? No, and they never will be.

That all said, they lack organic ASW capabilities. Minus hoping for a mission package to work, they can embark SH-60R's which are amazing ASW assets, but without a tail or hull mounted sonar they aren't really useful for screening. Arguably their biggest weakness, and one you never hear about, is their crew size/berthing arrangements. There is very little margin of error for a person getting sick or hurt on deployment without impacting mission capability. Endurance concerns are a red herring because all of the numbers you hear are for the ship sprinting around at 45+ knots constantly which, as we all should know, is not how ships operate. The standard configuration is for them to steam around on one or both MPDE's which gives them comparable endurance to other classes and still lets them get to 17+ knots.

The bottom line is that if you're going to complain about LCS, at least know what you're talking about before you accuse me of being a SWO and defending it while you rattle off the standard Sailor Bob talking points. I will also remind you that both the ARLEIGH BURKE and OLIVER HAZARD PERRY classes, which are both continuously put on pedestals during LCS arguments, had literally the same complaints levied against them when they were first hitting the fleet and everything with them turned out fine.

First off, those aren't SailorBob talking points. If you want talking points I'll post the [anonymized] talking points I have laying around from a very recently retired 3-star (sent to me via private message) that backs up absolutely everything I said and then-some. I'm not separating the program from the platform because at the end of the day garbage in = garbage out. And that is exactly what we're doing with this program.

I get that OHP and Burke-class ships weren't perfect from the get-go, but we're building dozens of these things based on hollow-designs and intrinsic flaws, only to have to go back and retrofit them with their mission modules later on as they come to fruition. It's standard knee-jerk Navy bullshit, nothing more, nothing less.

Hell, it's like the loving NWUs - room full of terminal O5s/O6s/E9s get together and sell a lovely bill of goods to the flags who eat it up because, hey, gently caress it, they're all retiring in 4-5 years anyways and its ~digital~. That's not an exaggeration, either. Also, how "safe you felt" is irrelevant. First, the OHP design is from like the late 60s. Second, there's a whole 'nother survivability conversation (or lack thereof) we can't have on these threads about the LCS. Let's just say it's less-than-flattering for a warship developed in the 21st century.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 21:42

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

Great, so we've moved the goalposts from "useless" to "not survivable". Your anonymous 3 Star friend probably makes a lot of very good points. The bottom line is that LCS is not as survivable as other combatants. It's just not. I bring up my time on OHP's as more of a point to say that we as a fleet and a Navy are totally cool with the survivability of the PERRYs but LCS, which is the same or better, is just a bridge too far somehow.

However, survivability relative to probably the best warship class in the world (ie the ARLEIGH BURKE) and overall survivability are not the same thing. Again, you have to look at the ROC/POE for the LCS design. They were never intended to do go drive straight into a Chinese port through a hail of YJ-82's and SIZZLERs to drop an MCM drone. They were designed to operate primarily in area of low ASCM threat, or on the fringes of higher threat areas as part of a more robust force. If you thought they were too expensive now I can't even imagine how much they would be per ship if we tried to BURKE them out. They are however survivable enough to exceed their initial ROC/POE.

As for the bit about not being a 21st century ship I ask you what your ideal 21st century ship looks like? Because for all the flak it gets, and in spite of all it's flaws, it's got some pretty revolutionary stuff going on inside to include survivability features found in no other active warships in the world.

Oh, would you like to talk about the guts of the warship and just what's going on inside? All of those systems that are networked together? Yea. loving. Garbage. Toss me a high-side address and I'll show you what I'm talking about. It epitomizes what happens when you plan/procure in a vacuum and let SWOs (i.e. not the IDC) have the final chop in the acquisition of C4I systems.

The Navy writ large was "cool" with the survivability of the OHP insofaras they had no other choice. Aside from the one cool-guy function the OHP has, it is often relegated to "bullet sponge" position in any given screen and is rarely tasked to do anything with any actual importance. Dunno what your FFG was doing, but the ones I've interacted with in C7F were generally patted on the head and sent to do innocuous minutae....because they were more of a liability than an asset.

buttplug fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 17, 2015

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 23:37

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

No need. I never claimed it was the best because it's not. I just hate it when people rail against kool aid drinking and then grab a pitcher full of a different color and chug until they drown.

Hah, there are very, very few subjects in the Navy (or military poo poo in general) that I have legitimately drank any amount of kool-aid in support of. Our loving absurdly bloated, literally criminal-at-times acquisitions process is not one of them because I've been intimately involved in it (COTS/GOTCS C4I systems not ship-stuff)... I have literally watched us drop millions of dollars on systems that nominally only cost tens of thousands to procure simply because the more expensive option was on the table.

People think the defense contracts and acquisitions in the military are like walking into a loving BMW dealership where MORE MONEY == BETTER TOY. The fact that senior officers and flags can't see past that rookie poo poo used to nearly give me a loving aneurysm at my last command.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 03:16

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Null Integer posted:

Yea, but your arguing against mot. It's like a deck seaman arguing against the chief quarters for being late because totally there is an instruction that says you can be UP TO 15 minutes late if the gate is busy and the MA says it's okay.

~*secret billet list*~

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 03:35

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Laranzu posted:

Dunno why it took so long to get rid of the twelve dudes on the bridge and drive it with a joystick jockey

Because even with 12 dudes on the bridge they still manage to run into poo poo in the middle of the ocean.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 04:07

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

ManMythLegend posted:

"Because that's the way we've always done it."

I think literally every single time I have ever heard anyone say this throughout my career, I have instantly written them off in my mind as a complete and total loving waste of time/space/life/air.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 04:17

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Analogical posted:

Anyone in the DC/Baltimore area have any recommendations for food/drink? I've got today and tomorrow off and I want to take my delicate self out for some pampering.

Depends on what you're looking for, here are a couple suggestions:

Sushi:
Sushi Tendou in Fulton -- 8194 Westside Boulevard
Fulton, MD 20759

Indian:
Royal Taj in Columbia -- 8874 McGaw Road
Columbia, MD 21045

Chinese (fusion):
Grace Garden in Odenton -- 1690 Annapolis Road
Odenton, MD 21113

American-style fare (oldest restaurant in DC)
Old Ebbitt Grill in DC -- 675 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20005

Middle Eastern places are a dime a dozen. There's a pretty good Turkish restaurant in DC as well - Zatinya -- 701 9th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20001 (is a bit pricey)

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 21:08

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Bars-wise go to Adams Morgan. Generally the "young professional" crowd. Lots of douchebag guys, so just don't be one and you'll take a chick home pretty easily (if that's what you're looking for). U street is pretty good as well. Koreatown (near the Verizon Center) has a couple nice spots.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 21:10

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

MassivelyBuckNegro posted:

If you never want to get a cab home, go to Adams Morgan.

Honestly? I live in Columbia. If I am going to DC I will get a hotel. It's barely more than the cost of an Uber both ways and it's more convenient than bringing a chick all the way back to my house (because then you have that 30-minute ride to sober up) as opposed to the Hilton for 130$/night (plus I have HHonors). *shrugs*

Mind you, I don't go out to DC every weekend, either. Maybe once a month? I'm in the middle of cranking out two master's degrees at the same time...

edit: but for someone who is only going to be in DC for a weekend or two its pretty neat.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 23:14

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Analogical posted:

I live down in Arlington but I never have enough time off to go into DC working 6/1s. I had to commute to Hanover every day this last week and it made me want to kill myself on a daily basis to commute an hour and a half before and after work. I've spent over 400 days in a hilton hotel in the past two years, with the total points in addition to double point promotions I never have to pay for a hotel again.

Well, do you typically work out at Hanover or are you at Meade? I don't envy your drive from Arlington every day..

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 01:24

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Don't go to Honey Pig, it's loving poo poo. Go to Shin-Chon in Ellicot City.

Also sir lucius when are you moving off the graveyard shift?

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 03:58

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Analogical posted:

I talk to like five goons on lync you joker. But I know who you are, next time I'm up at Meade should be next week to sit in ops for 12 hours because ~COOP~. I'll see if you're around to get honey pig. I like HP down here in VA, but I've also heard about Shin-Chon.

BP: Meade, but I like to sound cagey.

HP is good if you go to the one in Annandale, the other two I've been to sucked (stale side dishes) and generally tried to rush you through the meal. I'm a bit bias though because I just spent 3 years in Korea. But yea, Shin-Chon is good times.

I also work at Meade [at the moment...I rotate]...I'm on the floor above sir lucius.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 07:53

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

I almost never catch sir lucius on lync because he works weird hours. Email me at m0tbaillie@gmail.com and I'll give you my sid.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 21:08

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

Well there's also the fact that the officer billets for BUD/S are extremely competitive. You have to go to OCS, and then go to SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection where, as I understand it, they do a miniature "gut check" to see who is most likely to actually finish the course. Half the billets are reserved for academy grads, and there's apparently fewer than a hundred available most years.

The good news is, if you go to OCS, and then you aren't selected, you have no obligation. If you joined saying "I want to be a SEAL officer" and then aren't selected you can just walk away. I'm not sure if enlisting is still an option if that happens, though. There's a lot of details like that that I need to get more information on before I decide.

This is not true. When you apply for OCS in the Navy, you put your top 3 jobs. You are required to accept whichever slot you are accepted into that had the highest priority on the list (i.e. if I get selected for 2 and 3 but not 1, I must take 2). Therefore, If you get a BUD/s slot as an officer, you will be a commissioned ENS before you ever make it to Coronado. If you fail out of BUD/s, you will be re-designated to another community (probably SWO), you still have an obligation [of 4 active, 4 reserve years] once you accept a commission.

Howard Phillips posted:

As a prior e-dawg, enlisted dudes have no idea the pain that ~~officers, especially~~ SWOs, dish out to each other. All is not safety observing and hanging out in staterooms for the junior SWO.

Fixed. It was like joining an entirely different Navy when I lat x'fered out of the SWO community (I'm an 1820).

bengy81 posted:

Also, I remember dudes going into Chicago when I was in A school and lying to drunk chicks about all of their military "experience" and being reasonably successful at getting laid. That bs seems to work really well on dumb Midwesterners.

I was in a bar in DC about a month ago talking to some chick for a few minutes. She asked what I did for a living, and literally as soon as the words rolled off my lips she turned around immediately and walked away. True story. And she wasn't even that cook looking....DC chicks just tend to be total cunts 80% of the time. Also true story.

buttplug fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 22, 2015

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 03:28

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

I have absolutely no doubt that you're right because, as I said before, a lot of the information I've found, even from official sources, has contradicted other official and unofficial yet reliable sources. But here's where I found this: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/communitymanagers/Unrestricted/nsw/Pages/FAQs.aspx

But then that same website talks about having to do an interview for that board, writing an essay and poo poo, whereas moderators on the official SEAL forums say that interviews no longer happen and that everyone asking to go will get a chance at SOAS. So yeah, I just don't know what to believe, which is exactly why I came here and asked if anyone has actually gone.

I went to OCS. And I'm an officer. If you apply for and are accepted to OCS, commission, and wash out of BUD/S the Navy still owns you for 4+4 years. I know half a dozen guys (2 of whom went to OCS at the same time I did) who washed out of BUD/S and ended up as SWOS or IW/intel guys.

Howard Phillips posted:

Unlike most people the only reason I would stay in is to be a SWO DH. My SWO pin burns deep. Nothing like getting underway and doing ops.

Dafuq?

# ¿ Jan 23, 2015 01:12

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Some people take their jobs seriously and know how to be a team-player, some people are selfish loving assholes...In less than a year here I've seen it occur to varying degrees with MIL, CIV, and CTR. *shrugs*

# ¿ Jan 23, 2015 04:25

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

# ¿ Jan 24, 2015 03:23

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Stultus Maximus posted:

They have real ribbons and devices so they're probably prior enlisted.

She's not. She has the Academy starter set. NDSM/Pistol/Rifle (and they used to give the Academy kids a MUC, to boot).

He's a prior HM (or some ratings attached to a USMC unit). That's a USMC GCM and a FMF pin. And no, he's not wearing a BSM.

LingcodKilla posted:

Yeaaaah I don't plan on getting one right now. He's my 18yr old division buddy. I'm 37 and feel duty bound to help him him make vaguely decent choices as long as it doesn't take much effort.

He honestly just want to walk to shop right in front of the base. Sigh.

Hang on a sec. You're 37 and in A school? Am I reading that right?

buttplug fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jan 30, 2015

# ¿ Jan 30, 2015 02:11

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:30

buttplug: Aug 28, 2004

Nick Soapdish posted:

Was going to make a big care/effort post about this but will just say this, if you think that middie has a Marine Corps GCM and not Navy Reserve Meritorious Service, ie, GCM, for a guy with an FMF device, I don't know what to do with you.

It's more believable from a distance. I went to OCS with a guy who was prior Army (SGT), prior AF (TSgt), and then commissioned in the Navy. The DIs used to give him poo poo that he hit all the branches "except the right one". People sometimes take oddball paths to a commission. I know people who have cross commissioned out of the AF Academy and become Army Rangers. *shrugs* It's really not that far-fetched. I'm not saying that's what old boy's actual ribbon is, but that's certainly what it looks like.

justice4trayvawn posted:

with all of those infallible + terrific usna grads i can see why they wouldn't want someone to sully their Good Name

*sharts cum*

qft. Some of the best officers I've ever met in the Navy were Academy grads. Some of the absolute loving worst were also Academy grads.

Ultimately (and I say this as some mere OCS gently caress), I don't think commissioning source makes one goddamned bit of difference. Source: any random grouping of SWO Ensigns from whatever myriad of commissioning sources. Also, this Man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Michael_Boorda

buttplug fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jan 31, 2015

# ¿ Jan 31, 2015 05:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > January Navy Thread: no trolling for ARCOMs ITT