ecavalli posted:As pop culture, it currently exists in the pre-nostalgia backlash era. In roughly 6-8 years, we’ll collectively love it again. I never liked it. Considering I grew up in Canada reading Ranma mangas and playing River City Ransom, you'd think the book would be tailor-made for me, but it turns out when all your characters are incredibly obnoxious and your jokes are poor man's joss whedon, nostalgia isn't good enough. I just hope someday we can all admit to ourselves that it's a bad book and grow up.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:40
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as someone whos only seen the movie and did admittedly find it funny at the time, i can only imagine its because a story, steeped in gamer culture, about a creeper white guy who dates a high schooler and becomes marginally less lovely by chasing a manic pixie dream girl we've kinda moved on from that
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Jul 13, 2018 19:43
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It's fine. I really enjoy his character designs and the art style. The extra life gag is really good too.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:44
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I liked it 
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Jul 13, 2018 20:14
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site posted:as someone whos only seen the movie and did admittedly find it funny at the time, i can only imagine its because a story, steeped in gamer culture, about a creeper white guy who dates a high schooler and becomes marginally less lovely by chasing a manic pixie dream girl Yeah, that's a fair criticism. I think the comic is a bit more nuanced and shows how lovely Scott is and also how Ramona is more flawed than the archetypal manic pixie dream girl. The ending is also different from the movie, IIRC the last book was still being finished when the movie came out. But yeah it's not like, amazing, and it definitely falls into a lot of clichés that probably wouldn't have flown even just a few years later.
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Jul 13, 2018 20:38
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Skwirl posted:I'm sure it's an easier sell and everything, but I feel like Scott Pilgrim losses something in color. I can never put my finger on it, but I never liked the coloring in those editions and they give me some sort of synesthestic gross feeling in my stomach. Comic colors have never ever had that effect on me but it also happened when I looked at his other book Seconds that I think uses the same colorist. I also think it's weird that a book that's constantly telling you how cold it is has mostly warm colors on everything.
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Jul 13, 2018 20:58
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It's like Achewood and Fight Club, it's a story about a man who's inherited and internalized very bad behavior, except it's funny and frothy enough that a lot of people, especially when the story was in it's early stretches, just saw it as a validation of their own poor habits. It also was doing a lot of formal tricks that not a lot of comics with mainstream attention were doing at the time-- and a lot of worse comics wound up imitating those tricks and making them feel very very stale very very quickly. For me, though, that doesn't detract from how fresh and thrilling the first two Scott Pilgrim volumes felt the first time I read them, and honestly I think even as a very naive young reader at the time it was clear that O'Malley had sympathy for Scott-- which is important because a lot of the plot is about him coasting on charisma-- but was unsparing in depicting him as kind of a creep and an idiot. I think it's really quite good overall and maybe in a couple of years the world will be ready to re-evaluate it. Seconds is great-- I think Bryan Lee O'Malley is really talented and I feel bad that he's sort of lumped in with the worst excesses of his most famous comic's fan-base.
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Jul 13, 2018 21:12
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Scott Pilgrim gave us a great Edgar Wright movie, so far that I salute it even if I never actually read all of it.
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Jul 13, 2018 21:26
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If I wanted to read about idiotic creeps coasting on charisma, I'd read DnD...which I do, daily, so... I forget what I was talking about. Something to do with HHS cuts.
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Jul 13, 2018 22:52
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I don't think that's charisma.
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Jul 13, 2018 23:32
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Wait, wait. Scott Pilgrim was supposed to be charismatic?
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Jul 14, 2018 00:07
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Toshimo posted:Wait, wait. Scott Pilgrim was supposed to be charismatic? People put up with him for some reason and it sure isn't because he's nice or helpful?
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Jul 14, 2018 00:12
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Yeah, the whole point is that Scott and Ramona are both lovely people who end the series having achieved a little self-awareness and might be able to improve, and it's why the movie ending, while arguably making more sense for the compressed story Wright was telling, is awful and betrays the themes of the books. (Also, if you think this is reaching, read any of BLOM's other stuff. Almost all his protagonists are crappy self-absorbed assholes and the stories around them are about how they surround themselves with people who validate them, and only grow once their own actions become inescapable)
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Jul 14, 2018 00:17
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How does the book end
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Jul 14, 2018 00:34
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The story is like 97% Scott being an insufferable douche who wins all the prizes and like 2% lesson learning, it's really not an interesting journey.
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Jul 14, 2018 00:35
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site posted:How does the book end Basically he learns that he can't cover up his selfish behavior by acting like a feckless imp, and Ramona learns that she can't cover up her selfish behavior with self-loathing, and they resolve to be better people less invested in using self-mythologizing as an emotional narcotic. I think it's a pretty well-constructed finish but it's definitely in keeping with the tone of everything that before it, so if you weren't having fun with the previous five volumes or so of incremental and halting change it probably isn't a sharp enough swerve to make up for it. Honestly I'm very sympathetic with people in 2018 who aren't as fond of the whole project as I am. It began right as I was heading off to college so I think I hit the sweet spot, demographic wise, and the journey of seeing these characters presented as cool and carefree before revealing the fractures in that performance reflected a lot of what I experienced heading off on my own and hanging around with a lot of musicians and artists with similarly cultivated affectations. It's very very of its moment, to be sure. I imagine if you don't land in that exact same bullseye a significant bit of the charm is lost. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 01:27
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The single best moment in the series is the scene where Scott, for 2 minutes, acts like an actual grown-up and tries to have a conversation with Envy and you realise why she dumped him.
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Jul 14, 2018 01:46
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The big reason the film ended differently is that they got the film adaptation off the ground and wrapped on shooting a whole year before the comic finished, which is usually the worst time to do a faithful adaptation.
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Jul 14, 2018 02:16
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Jul 14, 2018 03:54
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Hey, Frank. You ever wonder why no one's really bothered by Logan or Wade killing people but they keep giving you poo poo about it? It's because you're a douche.
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Jul 14, 2018 04:24
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Keeshhound posted:Hey, Frank. You ever wonder why no one's really bothered by Logan or Wade killing people but they keep giving you poo poo about it? It's because you're a douche. To be fair, people complain about Deadpool all the fuckin time.
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Jul 14, 2018 04:27
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Toshimo posted:To be fair, people complain about Deadpool all the fuckin time. He just usually kills them soon afterwards.
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Jul 14, 2018 04:32
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Toshimo posted:To be fair, people complain about Deadpool all the fuckin time. He is also a douche.
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Jul 14, 2018 04:39
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Lurdiak posted:He is also a douche. As is Logan. They should form a new team called The Douches.
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Jul 14, 2018 04:56
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Bruceski posted:As is Logan. They should form a new team called The Douches. The "Ech." Men.
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Jul 14, 2018 04:58
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Keeshhound posted:Hey, Frank. You ever wonder why no one's really bothered by Logan or Wade killing people but they keep giving you poo poo about it? It's because you're a douche. If they really cared they'd put him in jail.
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Jul 14, 2018 05:02
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I guarantee there's been at least one storyline about that happening and him pulling some unironic "you're trapped in here with ME" poo poo.
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Jul 14, 2018 05:22
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Keeshhound posted:I guarantee there's been at least one storyline about that happening and him pulling some unironic "you're trapped in here with ME" poo poo. He was bribed by Ultimate Nick Fury with this very premise. Join his wetworks squad, and he gets access to torture devices and the worst jail full of monstrous human beings Fury can get Frank access to.
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Jul 14, 2018 05:37
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Keeshhound posted:I guarantee there's been at least one storyline about that happening and him pulling some unironic "you're trapped in here with ME" poo poo. There's at least one panel that I can't find that's basically that. It's from back in the 70s or 80s before Frank was totally nuts, he surrenders to the police because they are the law (laughable by modern Punisher standards) but on the way in to the cop car he remarks on how many criminals are in prison. You know, implying that he's gonna beat and/or kill every inmate in arm's reach the minute he's inside.
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Jul 14, 2018 05:37
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Found this in a folder. Injustice: Ground Zero, #15. 
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Jul 14, 2018 06:16
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Batman's just so...eager.
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Jul 14, 2018 06:24
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I always thought it is so weird how everyone has such reverence or awe for Castle. I get when it is in his own book, he is the star there, but in anyone else's he's just a nutjob with a gun. Any villain with a minor increment in normal human standards would clown him and any heroes would just dunk on him whenever possible. He can't even be that good at killing, like, Bucky and Natasha surely have a higher count than him and probably do it much better. Sometimes I feel like he's the Wimp Lo of the Marvel Universe, "we wrote him badly as a joke" but no one got it.
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Jul 14, 2018 06:38
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Samuringa posted:I always thought it is so weird how everyone has such reverence or awe for Castle. I get when it is in his own book, he is the star there, but in anyone else's he's just a nutjob with a gun. Any villain with a minor increment in normal human standards would clown him and any heroes would just dunk on him whenever possible. He can't even be that good at killing, like, Bucky and Natasha surely have a higher count than him and probably do it much better. There is no such person as "Frank Castle". When a hero kills somebody, either by accident or because they really really needed to, they attribute the death to 'the Punisher'. Those in the know will nod and move on, remembering their own encounters with "Mr. Castle".
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Jul 14, 2018 06:56
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Samuringa posted:I always thought it is so weird how everyone has such reverence or awe for Castle. I get when it is in his own book, he is the star there, but in anyone else's he's just a nutjob with a gun. Any villain with a minor increment in normal human standards would clown him and any heroes would just dunk on him whenever possible. He can't even be that good at killing, like, Bucky and Natasha surely have a higher count than him and probably do it much better. The real problem is pretending to have a unified "universe." but also, castle totally sold his soul and family to the devil to survive Vietnam and reality twists to ensure he suffers and degrades himself forever, like an special-effects-free Buddhist Spawn
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Jul 14, 2018 06:56
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It's likely they have more impressive kills than him, but Castle probably has a higher kill count. Bucky and Widow were portrayed as assassins, and Castle is willing to car bomb a mob funeral. I think the allure as a character is that he's the guy who just finally ran out of fucks to give. He's not a hero or even necessarily a good guy, but sometimes it's fun to watch a crazy person fight street crime with a gun. It's like the Death Wish movies.
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Jul 14, 2018 06:58
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Samuringa posted:I always thought it is so weird how everyone has such reverence or awe for Castle. I get when it is in his own book, he is the star there, but in anyone else's he's just a nutjob with a gun. Any villain with a minor increment in normal human standards would clown him and any heroes would just dunk on him whenever possible. 
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Jul 14, 2018 10:34
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Why does Spider-Man have cat ears on his eyeholes?
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Jul 14, 2018 13:03
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AfroSquirrel posted:Why does Spider-Man have cat ears on his eyeholes? That's winged eyeliner, bitch.
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Jul 14, 2018 13:54
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Tbf, it is sometimes called cat eye.
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Jul 14, 2018 14:07
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Keeshhound posted:I guarantee there's been at least one storyline about that happening and him pulling some unironic "you're trapped in here with ME" poo poo. Frank was in jail at the beginning of Daredevil #181, and tells Bullseye that the Kingpin replaced him with Elektra. Bullseye asks why Frank told him this. "Because you'll do something stupid." Bullseye promptly escapes prison, and kills Elektra.
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Jul 14, 2018 15:38
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