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I recently watched Utena episode 4. The bit where the mean girl tries to hide various animals in Utena's room could be straight from a Spongebob episode.
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Apr 3, 2015 12:54
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Onkel Hedwig posted:I recently watched Utena episode 4. The bit where the mean girl tries to hide various animals in Utena's room could be straight from a Spongebob episode. Oh man that isn't even the silliest Nanami episode
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Apr 3, 2015 13:58
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Nanami loving owns.
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Apr 3, 2015 14:00
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The Yuri Kuma dub is pretty great.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:31
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Effectronica posted:Nanami loving owns.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:55
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I actually remember completely hating Nanami and now I've just realised that it must have been somewhere between 10-15 years since I last watched Utena all the way through. 
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Apr 4, 2015 03:57
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Effectronica posted:Nanami loving owns. One episode she tries to put hot spice in Utena's curry - the other episode she tries to straight up murder her in a duel 
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Apr 5, 2015 13:13
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Sharkopath posted:Wait lol is that really how it ends No it pretty obviously ends with marriage. I mean poo poo they get court approval, give a kiss in front of a spiritual authority, then both leave their homes to live somewhere new together. I guess that's why Ikuhara was being so coy about "subverting yuri tropes" bullshit by just using regular romance ones.
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Apr 7, 2015 15:15
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A rule of the internet is if you have any slightly ambiguous ending and you'll have people over thinking by writing multiple paragraphs about how they really died guys
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Apr 7, 2015 15:21
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That's now my interpretation of the ending too.
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Apr 7, 2015 15:21
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Narrator: Yo bitches they're beyond severance now, did you kno the antonym for severance is mar- Goon: Woah only a dead body like gokus can handle super severance level 3, typical lesbian fetushization
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Apr 7, 2015 16:27
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Narrator: Yo bitches they're beyond severance now, did you kno the antonym for severance is mar- lmao
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Apr 7, 2015 17:24
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link is dead in majora's mask
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Apr 7, 2015 17:31
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Most marriages don't involve firing squads. Well, I guess there was my Uncle Arnold's, but... Seriously, though, this show has been heavy on the classic yuri symbolism since day one (no duh), and there's a very particular meaning to escaping from reality together and finding happiness in another world. The ending would be fine in most other contexts, but when you're talking about a social movement whose message for the past fifty years has basically been 'wait stop please don't kill yourselves we can help you be accepted here in the real world', well...
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Apr 7, 2015 19:49
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Even if they're not dead, it's kind of a lovely message, because even after all that they were never accepted by society as a whole. The invisible storm just declares victory and continues on, business as usual. But at least that one girl gets to be with her pure lobotomized cybear waifu so all is good, right?
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Apr 7, 2015 20:47
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Darth Walrus posted:Most marriages don't involve firing squads. Well, I guess there was my Uncle Arnold's, but... that's a lot of faith in anime girls who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and none at all in a literal deity. Suicide by firing squad? why isn't Lulu there? Bet this guy thinks Utena is dead too. You can have the context I'll take the text 
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Apr 7, 2015 20:56
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Their society as a whole was lovely and stupid, so who cares whether or not there were accepted by them? Kureha and Ginko find love and escape to a better world of their own making whilst the IS pitifully grinds forward, despite chinks already showing in the armor. That's literally it.
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Apr 7, 2015 20:59
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hope they escaped to an actually good anime
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Apr 7, 2015 21:00
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You also had characters go on about how they were going to exclude them and never once utter the word kill in that regard so maybe you should assume that THIS PARTICULAR THING is entirely on a metaphorical level. It really has been a case of people over analyzing and then just ignoring any part of the shows text that doesn't agree with their preconceived narrative.
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Apr 7, 2015 21:02
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I think they both went to hell, because we all know that's where gay people go when they die.
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Apr 7, 2015 21:06
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Pootybutt posted:Their society as a whole was lovely and stupid, so who cares whether or not there were accepted by them? Kureha and Ginko find love and escape to a better world of their own making whilst the IS pitifully grinds forward, despite chinks already showing in the armor. That's literally it. The catch is that that was precisely the narrative that led to a whole lot of Japanese lesbians actually topping themselves. 'Society is crap, so I'll just see where reincarnation takes me'. The long history of romanticising lovers' suicide in Japanese media absolutely did not help, and it's actually quite interesting to see how lesbian literature fit into that. Initially in Meiji Japan, lesbian suicide victims were mocked for believing that the cycle of reincarnation would somehow endorse their unnatural, immature passion (as in, there were literal newspaper competitions to see who could do the best satirical poems about lesbian suicide attempts). Then Class S and its more explicit evolution, classic yuri, rolled in, and started romanticising lesbians' tragic, hopeless love. Since romance requires sympathy for the characters, their eventual separation or reunion via suicide was treated as tragic, but an inevitability given the institutional prejudice against lesbian relationships (more conservative works had the lovers reborn as a man and a woman, while more daring ones had them reborn as women in a world free of prejudice). Then the LGBT rights movement started gaining ground, and started creating a degree of hope that lesbians actually had a chance in Japan. Modern yuri is less tragic less often and actually dares to show women living together happily just like heterosexual couples, or at least getting the traditional 'and they lived happily ever after' ending to their budding romance (see Wife and Wife, Girl Friends, and so on). YKA occupies a comfortable middle ground between the second and third stages - Kureha and Ginko's escape is treated as very romantic, but the oppressive system that forced them to flee still exists, and it's up to the next generation to maybe, possibly find a better way. It's quite cautious and conservative for such an ambitious show.
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Apr 7, 2015 21:19
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Cao Ni Ma posted:You also had characters go on about how they were going to exclude them and never once utter the word kill in that regard so maybe you should assume that THIS PARTICULAR THING is entirely on a metaphorical level. Social exclusion is how homophobia exists in Japan, particularly for lesbians - they're expected to get on with the violence themselves and kindly remove themselves from normal people's lives. Violence exists, but it's mostly the implicit threat behind a wall of shaming and isolation. It's really telling that there isn't a word for 'lesbian' in Japan - they chiefly use an English loanword.
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Apr 7, 2015 21:23
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Pootybutt posted:Their society as a whole was lovely and stupid, so who cares whether or not there were accepted by them? Kureha and Ginko find love and escape to a better world of their own making whilst the IS pitifully grinds forward, despite chinks already showing in the armor. That's literally it. Cao Ni Ma posted:You also had characters go on about how they were going to exclude them and never once utter the word kill in that regard so maybe you should assume that THIS PARTICULAR THING is entirely on a metaphorical level. Yeah of course they're not literally dead. If they were, they'd be with Lulu and her brother. The ending could still be seen as a death metaphor.
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Apr 7, 2015 21:26
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Darth Walrus posted:The catch is that that was precisely the narrative that led to a whole lot of Japanese lesbians actually topping themselves. 'Society is crap, so I'll just see where reincarnation takes me'. The long history of romanticising lovers' suicide in Japanese media absolutely did not help, and it's actually quite interesting to see how lesbian literature fit into that. Initially in Meiji Japan, lesbian suicide victims were mocked for believing that the cycle of reincarnation would somehow endorse their unnatural, immature passion (as in, there were literal newspaper competitions to see who could do the best satirical poems about lesbian suicide attempts). Then Class S and its more explicit evolution, classic yuri, rolled in, and started romanticising lesbians' tragic, hopeless love. Since romance requires sympathy for the characters, their eventual separation or reunion via suicide was treated as tragic, but an inevitability given the institutional prejudice against lesbian relationships (more conservative works had the lovers reborn as a man and a woman, while more daring ones had them reborn as women in a world free of prejudice). Then the LGBT rights movement started gaining ground, and started creating a degree of hope that lesbians actually had a chance in Japan. Modern yuri is less tragic less often and actually dares to show women living together happily just like heterosexual couples, or at least getting the traditional 'and they lived happily ever after' ending to their budding romance (see Wife and Wife, Girl Friends, and so on). YKA occupies a comfortable middle ground between the second and third stages - Kureha and Ginko's escape is treated as very romantic, but the oppressive system that forced them to flee still exists, and it's up to the next generation to maybe, possibly find a better way. It's quite cautious and conservative for such an ambitious show. You've got all this context and yet you're not reading the actual text
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Apr 7, 2015 21:43
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Endorph posted:hope they escaped to an actually good anime they escaped to the lesbears manga
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Apr 7, 2015 21:46
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Mymla posted:The society you live in matters a lot to you, no matter how full of poo poo it is, whether you like it or not. The ending would have been better if instead of showing how good Ginko/Kureha are, and how wrong everyone else is for rejecting them, it showed everyone else... not rejecting them. You know, changing their minds. That would've been positive. That would also be pretty silly and unrealistic, and not fit with the setting they had established at all. The fact that they were shaken nearly to the core by Ginko and Kureha was plain as day right there, but at the end of they day, repressive systems just don't change over night. Bigots just don't suddenly let go of all their deeply-held beliefs and biases. The IS continuing to exist is one of my favorite touches about what I thought, speaking as a homosexual, was a pretty ballsy ending and valuable message, all told. I guess it depends on how you choose to look at it, cause I didn't really equate what happened to the girls with death or even suicide, seeing as how their standing their bravely paw-in-paw as the system points guns AT THEM. Figured the heaven/Kumaria imagery was just Ikuni bein Ikuni.
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Apr 7, 2015 22:02
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we've all got irony poisoning from being shrek'd by an anime
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Apr 7, 2015 22:06
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Does this mean all yuri is ogre now?
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Apr 7, 2015 22:09
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:we've all got irony poisoning from being shrek'd by an anime The irony opens!
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Apr 7, 2015 22:09
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Finally was in a mood to finish this show, so I did. I liked it overall. Definitely a weaker Ikuhara, though. Others have done a fine job discussing its strengths and weaknesses, so I'll abstain (I'm bad at expressing my thoughts on fiction anyway).Oh Snapalope posted:Paraphrasing from a post I saw on a random IRC channel: This though, was pretty much my first thought when it was revealed that Kureha had wished for Ginko to become human. I especially liked these posts and the discussions stemming from them: Thuryl posted:I can see why a lot of people are reading the ending as representing Ginko and Kureha's death, but especially in the context of all of Ikuhara's previous work I think it can reasonably be taken at face value: if being with the person you love requires you to walk away from your whole world, it's possible to do that, find people willing to follow you and maybe even change the world you left behind in the process. If we were supposed to think Ginko and Kureha had died, that one girl walking out on the speech at the end and following in Kureha's footsteps by caring for an abandoned bear wouldn't be presented in such a positive light. The whole show symbolically connects social exclusion with death, but I think it's possible to read the ending as making the point that that the two aren't equivalent, even if it looks that way from the perspective of those inside the system. Hell, considering the appearances of Sumika, Lulu and Milne in the ending, I think it's possible to see all the death in the series as symbolic rather than literal: the excluded girls are ultimately the ones who escape, while the invisible girls make their own world smaller and lonelier (look how empty the classroom is in the last couple of episodes!) I think that's still an important and relevant message for plenty of queer people today. Gyre posted:I can see it as a closeted/out thing. Kureha wanted Ginko to be closeted so they could be together, like a lesbian couple hiding themselves as "friends". Kureha was the first closeted person in this world to say "no, screw this, if we can't be together as ourselves then what's the point?" and came out. Them getting shot at are the girls freaking out that there's an out lesbian couple right there who aren't caring what everyone says. When Kureha and Ginko ascend, it's basically them going "gently caress getting poo poo on for being ourselves, we reject the system totally". Laser girl starts rejecting the system right after, because even though the school sees "scaring" Kureha and Ginko away as a shaky victory she knows the truth.
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Apr 10, 2015 06:12
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That sure was a show.   Yes_Cantaloupe posted:Finally was in a mood to finish this show, so I did. I liked it overall. Definitely a weaker Ikuhara, though. Others have done a fine job discussing its strengths and weaknesses, so I'll abstain (I'm bad at expressing my thoughts on fiction anyway). Took the words right out of my mouth. a kitten fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 02:36
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I could see some variation of this becoming my new Ikuhara avatar.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:49
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I'm at the last couple of episodes of Utena and I can already tell that the ending is gonna be amazing.
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May 1, 2015 18:20
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Manga chapter 4 http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/yuri_kuma_arashi_ch04 lol the first page
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May 15, 2015 13:52
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Is it worth spending the time finishing this show? I just kinda ended up not watching the last few episodes because 
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May 25, 2015 15:06
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The ending is okay but if you got bored enough to not bother watching the last couple of episodes, probably not.
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May 25, 2015 18:09
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I'm glad I finished it, but the ending didn't cause dramatic reassessment of the earlier parts of the series or anything. If you were enjoying it, you'll probably enjoy the ending.
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May 25, 2015 18:11
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Yes_Cantaloupe posted:I'm glad I finished it, but the ending didn't cause dramatic reassessment of the earlier parts of the series or anything. If you were enjoying it, you'll probably enjoy the ending. Yeah, it's the kind of show where it spends so much of its time setting things up and promising they'll be meaningful later that a bad ending easily could have retroactively ruined the whole thing and I'm pretty happy they didn't drop the ball, but if you didn't already care about the buildup then you're probably not going to care about the resolution.
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May 26, 2015 01:07
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Sakurazuka posted:The ending is okay but if you got bored enough to not bother watching the last couple of episodes, probably not. I got distracted by Shirobako and Evangelion, so not so much bored as distracted by fantastic anime.
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May 26, 2015 06:09
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In that case the ending has its problems, like the show as a whole, but it's worth finishing.
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May 26, 2015 10:26
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