|
It's Ava, not Eva. Every time I see her called Eva I just stop reading. We've been through six seasons. How are people still getting it wrong?
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 03:34 |
|
|
They literally sound the same phonetically and have been used interchangeably in this thread for years, who really gives a poo poo. Well you do, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:I think if we look at Yost's mantra of What Would Elmore Do, the ending is not about Boyd the Outlaw getting away with his life, it's about Rylan not killing Boyd and bringing him in alive because, in the end, Raylan is a Good Guy. Yeah, I liked the ending. It's weird because Raylan's arc is pretty much the opposite of the protagonists of most shows right now. He starts out killing people every other episode, but in the last few seasons, he goes episodes without even drawing. I know in the first season he talks about not drawing his gun unless he's going to kill someone, but in later seasons, he has a much more sensibly, practical police practice of drawing his gun when appropriate, and he also misses several times, for example in the shootout with Garrett Dillahunt's character and Choo-Choo. It was a great series and it ended in a good place. edit: Parachute posted:They literally sound the same phonetically and have been used interchangeably in this thread for years, who really gives a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
People who don't speak any spanish pronounce Eva with a long E apparently.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:22
|
|
|
Snak posted:I don't know where you are from that this is true... I'm from Texas, but a good friend of mine growing up was named Eva and she's from Poland.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
withak posted:People who don't speak any spanish pronounce Eva with a long E apparently. That's because as far as I know, depending on its origin, it is a different name. Eva (long e) as an English variation of Eve (long e) is not uncommon. It makes sense to pronounce it that way. Spanish Eva (short e) is sometimes anglicized as Ava, because otherwise English speaking people don't pronounce it right. Because of this, Ava has been adopted as a name in primarily English speaking areas. At least that's my understanding.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:33
|
|
|
Eva Longoria - EVE-uh Eva Mendes - A-vuh Eva Amurri Martino - EV-uh Which of these are wrong/right you goons?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:I think if we look at Yost's mantra of What Would Elmore Do, the ending is not about Boyd the Outlaw getting away with his life, it's about Rylan not killing Boyd and bringing him in alive because, in the end, Raylan is a Good Guy. Raylan isn't a good guy. I mean gently caress, the action that signals that Raylan is a changed man is him not committing cold blooded murder, and the show treats it as if it's something worth congratulating. By that logic, we might as well call the ice pick fellow from season 3 a good guy. I mean sure, he broke into houses, held people at gunpoint, and then put the gun on the table in front of them, but he only stabbed them if they went for it. Raylan would probably consider that a justified killing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:01
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:Raylan isn't a good guy. I mean gently caress, the action that signals that Raylan is a changed man is him not committing cold blooded murder, and the show treats it as if it's something worth congratulating. Given his history (specifically the reason he was sent back to Kentucky in the first place) and overall body count, Raylan being the "bigger man" and not killing Boyd is definitely worth congratulating.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:07
|
|
|
"Thank you Raylan. I know that you attempted to give Boyd a gun (even threatening to murder him if he didn't pick it up) in order to set up some quasi-justified killing, a plan that failed only because he knew you too well to play along, but I really appreciate that you were the bigger man and did not, in the end, kill an unarmed man. We'll just forget that you shot at him completely unprovoked the night before. You sure are lucky that you have surrounded yourself with people who are willing to overlook the fact that you are a raging sociopath. Have fun in Florida." -Everyone, apparently
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
It's OK to apply different relative morals to fiction than you would in the real world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:42
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:"Thank you Raylan. I know that you attempted to give Boyd a gun (even threatening to murder him if he didn't pick it up) in order to set up some quasi-justified killing, a plan that failed only because he knew you too well to play along, but I really appreciate that you were the bigger man and did not, in the end, kill an unarmed man. We'll just forget that you shot at him completely unprovoked the night before. You sure are lucky that you have surrounded yourself with people who are willing to overlook the fact that you are a raging sociopath. Have fun in Florida." Unprovoked? The last 2 episodes reinforced Boyd's "outlawness" after he straight up murdered two unarmed people, one of which being his most loyal henchman. You'd think an outlaw like that would die instead of going back to prison for the rest of his life like some stereotype in a show that's not as good as Justified. In the end, both he and Raylan subverted their supposed destinies and choose the path of non-violence. Hell, he even decided he wasn't going to take Ava in after tracking her across the country - and this was before he learned about her child.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
Parachute posted:Unprovoked? The last 2 episodes reinforced Boyd's "outlawness" after he straight up murdered two unarmed people, one of which being his most loyal henchman. You'd think an outlaw like that would die instead of going back to prison for the rest of his life like some stereotype in a show that's not as good as Justified. In the end, both he and Raylan subverted their supposed destinies and choose the path of non-violence. Hell, he even decided he wasn't going to take Ava in after tracking her across the country - and this was before he learned about her child. Yes, unprovoked. Boyd was running across a path and Raylan, who was hiding up a hill, started shooting at him without even attempted to arrest him. I don't know what you're trying to say with the second sentence. And as for Ava, I didn't like that she got off scot-free either. Baronash fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:"Thank you Raylan. I know that you attempted to give Boyd a gun (even threatening to murder him if he didn't pick it up) in order to set up some quasi-justified killing, a plan that failed only because he knew you too well to play along, but I really appreciate that you were the bigger man and did not, in the end, kill an unarmed man You act like this is not actually character growth for Raylan.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:It's OK to apply different relative morals to fiction than you would in the real world. Except when normal people find out about the poo poo Raylan pulls, such as killing the guy in the pilot, or when Art learns that Raylan arranged the death of Nicky Augustine, they are understandably disgusted. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:You act like this is not actually character growth for Raylan. It's character growth, but it's not the kind of growth that should have earned him the happy ending he receives. I don't know about anyone else, but for most of the show I assumed that the writers knew Raylan was a bad guy. It was easier to write off the bad poo poo he pulls when I assumed that Raylan would be killed in the finale. Him surviving and getting to chill in Florida, eating ice cream with his daughter throws all his actions in a new light. Baronash fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Apr 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:And as for Ava, I didn't like that she got off scot-free either. Elmore would have it no other way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:Yes, unprovoked. Boyd was running across a path and Raylan, who was hiding up a hill, started shooting at him without even attempted to arrest him. I don't know what you're trying to say with the second sentence. Do you just completely ignore everything else that happens in the show (specifically the tumultuous history between the characters) besides what is happening right in front of your face at that very moment? poo poo, I just mentioned Boyd murdered what, 4/5 people in 12 hours before the final confrontation with Raylan, not to mention that 2 of those kills happened almost right in front of him. Ava didn't get off "scot-free" - she is literally a fugitive with a young child who thinks that she could either be arrested or killed at any moment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Parachute posted:Do you just completely ignore everything else that happens in the show (specifically the tumultuous history between the characters) besides what is happening right in front of your face at that very moment? poo poo, I just mentioned Boyd murdered what, 4/5 people in 12 hours before the final confrontation with Raylan, not to mention that 2 of those kills happened almost right in front of him. Yes, and Raylan is (ostensibly) a lawman, not a vigilante. Killing a guy in cold blood because he probably killed someone earlier in the day is not his job.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Watches 7 seasons of a show where the protag shoots about 20 people. Last episode ends: "You know what, I feel like they might've taken some creative liberties in regards to the judicial system on this show. Doesn't feel right."
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:10
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:Yes, and Raylan is (ostensibly) a lawman, not a vigilante. Killing a guy in cold blood because he probably killed someone earlier in the day is not his job. This is Raylan Givens we're talking about, not Cordell Walker.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
Cage posted:Watches 7 seasons of a show where the protag shoots about 20 people. I didn't expect it to be a documentary. Like I said, it's the ending he receives that I have a problem with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:Yes, and Raylan is (ostensibly) a lawman, not a vigilante. Killing a guy in cold blood because he probably killed someone earlier in the day is not his job. That's the entire goddamn arc, man. Raylan lets his vendettas drive him further and further into the territory of "angry man with a gun," and this last one literally has him turn in his badge for a while and go it on his own. At the end, though, he realizes that he needs to let his anger go, that he needs to do his duty and not be so goddamn selfish. We see in the ending he's taken the lesson to heart, too. That's why he doesn't take in Ava, that's why he can go see Boyd in prison without turning it into a pissing match, and that's why he and his ex-wife can get along now, even if they couldn't make a romantic relationship work out. Whether or not Raylan earned this ending morally, everything he has at the end is due to the essential choice he made when he finally caught up to Boyd.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
The finale is also Raylan finally coming to a point where he has to decide whether he is like his father or not and answering that question people have been asking him all series long for definite. Answering it for once and all probably took a good bit of weight of his shoulders and allowed him to move on a bit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
tsob posted:The finale is also Raylan finally coming to a point where he has to decide whether he is like his father or not and answering that question people have been asking him all series long for definite. Answering it for once and all probably took a good bit of weight of his shoulders and allowed him to move on a bit. Yeah, though a lot of that was tackled when he finally went and saw his dad's spooky shed. One of the huge themes of this season has been that you can get out of Harlan alive, but not if you try to take it with you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
Sweet, already feared we'd go a whole season without Twee as gently caress but clearly he's here in spirit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 21:11
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:One of the huge themes of this season has been that you can get out of Harlan alive, but not if you try to take it with you. The silly thing being that Raylan had left Harlan years before hand while it still haunted him and would have stayed gone for ever more than likely had events not conspired to force him back. I suppose that could be viewed as fate though, that he was destined to go back there because he was still acting like a Harlan man at heart and couldn't truly leave until he'd started to drop that chip off his shoulder.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
Fire Safety Doug posted:Sweet, already feared we'd go a whole season without Twee as gently caress but clearly he's here in spirit. That hurts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 21:32
|
|
|
Raylan was a Bad Cop from episode one when he slammed Dewey Crowe's teeth into a steering wheel for talking back to him. And remember when he turned his back on that dude in season 3 or 4 to allow a mob hit to take place? Shooting at dangerous armed murderer in the woods was pretty reasonable (and Justified!) in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 21:41
|
|
|
JRay88 posted:It's Ava, not Eva. Every time I see her called Eva I just stop reading. We've been through six seasons. How are people still getting it wrong? Hahahaha
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 21:59
|
|
|
Dewey Crowe Update: Criminally underused, IMO on "Battle Creek" not that it matters as it's already pretty much dead. http://collider.com/damon-herriman-justified-battle-creek-interview/ Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Apr 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:That hurts. Admittedly that's pretty harsh but you may notice that no one is really agreeing with you. In the context of the show and Raylan as a character, him letting Boyd go really is a significant leap. It wouldn't have been a stretch for him to die either, had the writers decided to go that way, but I can't see why you're so miffed about his redemption when it's quite consistent with his (and the show's) cowboy ethics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 23:18
|
|
|
Michael Rapaport as an idiotic hyperfriendly rear end in a top hat cop in the newest episode of Louie is hilarious after being used to seeing him in Justified.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 23:31
|
|
|
Fire Safety Doug posted:Admittedly that's pretty harsh but you may notice that no one is really agreeing with you. Well I thought about this for a while, and their viewpoint makes sense if that's how you want to approach the series. It's not surprising, or even wrong, that people want to think about what Raylan deserves karmically. Calling Raylan a sociopath is inaccurate, but it's easy to reach that conclusion if you're thinking about the character morally. Given how willing he is to shoot dudes and even conspire with others to get bad guys killed, he's hardly a straightforward good person, and he certainly leans toward the bad cop archetype. Where they and I (and I assume most of the thread) differ is that we've rarely been asked by the series to view Raylan through a moral lense. Instead, we've been asked to consider how he grew up, what he's been through since then, and how he reacts once he returns. All of this considered, he acts pretty lawfully, though he skirts it often and has been ambiguous about his motivations. Raylan always teeters on the edge of justice or vengeance. He seeks justice because it's his job, and he honestly seems to believe it's the appropriate act. That said, he also wants to avenge the people that the criminals of Harlan have harmed. This is largely due to the resentment of his father, and how he empathizes with the people who live there due to the harm he suffered. This duality seems to be what drove him to be a lawman, and now that he's back home he takes it personally. This is very important to consider when analyzing the series, because he is reluctant to look back on his past, on his father, and it is key to his character. Throughout the series, he's always had to make the decision between lawman and vigilante, but fortunately for him he's rarely had to actually make the choice. Outlaws are keen to draw on him, allowing him to fulfill both of his desires, justice and vengeance, at once. He wants them dead, and also shooting them is within the code he has bound himself to. He has strayed from lawful means, particularly when he tips off the Detroit mob about Nick Augustine, but he resolves that to himself in that it was necessary to protect him and his, as well as the fact that he offered Augustine an out before it happened. Finally, he gets down to Boyd. He gives Boyd every opportunity to give him another out to avoid that inner turmoil, but Boyd refuses. Finally, Raylan has his choice. No justifications now, just justice versus vengeance. Raylan chooses the former. He's finally decided who he is, and his life is better for it. Now if someone wants to talk about how moral Raylan is, that's on them. I just think that, if you're gonna analyze a series, you should approach it primarily from the perspective it presents you. Ultimately, this was never the story of who was "right" or who was "wrong", it was about a few people from the same place trying to escape, but never being able to. e: I need to remember to give effort posts a once over Arsonist Daria fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 23:50
|
|
|
I mean, I like to think about the title of the show, and how Raylan uses it in the first episode. It's like when we meet Raylan, he shoots and kills people but he rationalizes it as being 'justified'. Like he's pretending that a legal excuse is also moral one. At the end of the show, he wants Boyd to give him a legal and ethical excuse to shoot him, but without it, he can't justify shooting him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 00:08
|
|
|
JohnSherman posted:Yes, unprovoked. Boyd was running across a path and Raylan, who was hiding up a hill, started shooting at him without even attempted to arrest him. I don't know what you're trying to say with the second sentence. I was under the impression we joined that scene mid shootout.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 00:44
|
|
|
Wasn't it Raylan who gave the speech about people expecting praise for not doing things they oughtn't to be doing anyway. In the beginning Raylan was cool for being an old school marshal in modern KY. By the end he was just an rear end in a top hat. edit; marshal, not Marshall, loving spell check wormil fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Apr 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
wormil posted:Wasn't it Raylan who gave the speech about people expecting praise for not doing things they oughtn't to be doing anyway. I think a lot of the point of Raylan's character is that trying to be the good guy in your favorite Westerns doesn't apply all that well to real life. He might always have a great one-liner and a quick draw to back him up, but he's also a dick without a hint of self-awareness.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 02:21
|
|
|
Raylan's a huge dick but I'll always be put off by folks acting like the character doesn't have a functioning moral compass that he pays heed to on the regular, even if it can enter grey territory in matters involving the likes of Augustine. I've said it before but Raylan abandoning the shootout with Boyd to go save Bob is pretty much the difference between Raylan and the likes of Boyd in a nutshell.And of course there's other moments, too. Him pretty much throwing away rebuilding a relationship with Winona to help Loretta in season 2 is another good look at him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 02:32
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:Raylan's a huge dick but I'll always be put off by folks acting like the character doesn't have a functioning moral compass that he pays heed to on the regular, even if it can enter grey territory in matters involving the likes of Augustine. Saving Bob is legit. But Raylan never wanted a relationship with Winona. He spent the entire series making excuses not to have a relationship with her and even after moving to Floriday, she ended up with another man. And, not shooting Boyd was not character development -- Raylan could not justify shooting and could not get away clean with murder without also killing Ava. I am not saying that Raylan would murder Boyd, pre-final season Raylan definitely wouldn't.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 03:34 |
|
|
whatsabattle posted:Pro wrestler Ron Wright passed away last week, and he worked Tennessee and Kentucky as a top bad guy, and was such a great heel that in the 70s he had his airplane blown up with dynamite. Here's something from today's local paper that mentions this incident. quote:“Most knew him as the ‘bad guy,’ and one night when he left the ring in Greeneville, Tennessee after a match, a fan was so wrought up in that belief that he stabbed Ron in the back, requiring dozens of stitches. Ron, realizing he was seriously hurt, fought through the crowd, went out the back door and across the street to a clinic where he was stitched up.” tsob posted:How did the bear not just eviscerate him? Did they de-claw it or something? I don't know for certain, but I assume it was trained. All I know is that there was a picture of him and a bear in the newspaper a few weeks ago when it was announced he was dying, and it said that he had wrestled a bear once or twice in his career. EdIt: Here's the pic. Looks more like he's giving it a hug rather than fighting it. 
empty baggie fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Apr 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2015 19:28
|
|
