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Ligur posted:There are gangs in the banlieus that are heavily armed as poo poo with weaponry smuggled from Eastern Europe & Balkans. Have been for a long time.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:12
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:I'm not hoping for an intervention. Even if I thought intervention was a positive, I'm leery about whether or not France even has the military capacity to really add to the current operations. I'm just curious if the political situation and public mood makes it a possibility. France have a significant military, about on par with the UK's. They could definitely contribute in a meaningful way.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:12
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Editor-in-chief Charb has died.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:16
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:I'm torn, on one hand the target seems strange for it to be something that ISIS initiated, but at the same time the weapons and the fact that the assailants survived and escaped from the resulting police confrontation points to people who have some idea of what they're doing. I suppose the lower key target could have been in part to guarantee a fair amount of success compared to a more heavily guarded location? The symbolic value of Charlie Hebdo shouldn't be underestimated. I mean obviously we have to wait to hear more information before coming to conclusions, but I wouldn't describe a publication of it's renown to be considered low key. I'm a bit concerned at the moment as I think a couple of people I worked with now work at Charlie Hebdo. No one has really been able to get information about their condition. Brannock posted:Editor-in-chief Charb has died. gently caress.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:17
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Apparently this was the cartoon tweeted shortly before the attack,  Hopefully lowtax is protected
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Jan 7, 2015 14:21
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So 2015 off to a great start so far, good stuff.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:22
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I didn't know this -- apparently Charb had a bounty on his head placed by Al-Qaeda a couple years ago.quote:Famous French cartoonists Cabu, Charb, Tignous and Wolinski all reported killed in the attack. quote:Richard Malka, Charlie Hebdo's lawyer, says its offices had been "under police protection since the Mohammed cartoon affair right up until today. Charb (the publishing director) was under special high-profile figure protection. The threats were constant. It is frightening."
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Jan 7, 2015 14:24
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Baudolino posted:A happy day for Madame Le Pen. gently caress you. dorkasaurus_rex posted:She's a Holocaust denier/French xenophobe and I'm from a French Jewish family. I think it's okay if I worry a bit. Her boyfriend and FN vice-president is also from a Jewish family.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:24
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drat, cabu died? This is big.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:27
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Skinty McEdger posted:The symbolic value of Charlie Hebdo shouldn't be underestimated. I mean obviously we have to wait to hear more information before coming to conclusions, but I wouldn't describe a publication of it's renown to be considered low key. I suppose I do have a bit of tendency to brush it off as silly cartoons, but I really shouldn't. It's just my default assumption is that ISIS would have done this to provoke some kind of international response from France, hence my question about whether or not the French government might take the bait. I guess maybe it could be about shoring up local support, or because they're not exactly the most sane group of people on the planet. I hope the people on your mind are safe. Saki posted:France have a significant military, about on par with the UK's. They could definitely contribute in a meaningful way. They have the hardware to contribute certainly, but recent actions have shown that they don't have the logistics in place to really support a sustained effort. The US would probably be carrying most of the backend of any French effort, which kind of negates the overall usefulness of the contribution. Usually this is made up for by the US getting some kind of legitimacy boost for their actions because it's seen as less unilateral, but with the bombing campaign so far along now I kind of doubt they'd get that boost if France joins in.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:28
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Cat Mattress posted:gently caress you. So this thread is just for posting variants of "This is tragic?" Are political implications really out of scope for D&D?
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Jan 7, 2015 14:29
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This was recently published by Charb:
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Jan 7, 2015 14:32
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Loucks posted:So this thread is just for posting variants of "This is tragic?" Are political implications really out of scope for D&D?
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Jan 7, 2015 14:37
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I watched the video of the Police Officer being executed. I wished I hadn't. The terrorists yelled something like: "Tried to kill us, huh?" and the officer put his hands in the air saying "C'est assez, chef!" (I'd translate as: That's enough/You win, dude!) right before they cap him. Very upsetting.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:38
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Brannock posted:This was recently published by Charb: Irony is a cruel mistress.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:38
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quote:Emma-Kate Symons @eksymons 51s51 seconds ago quote:Jacquelin Magnay @jacquelinmagnay 1m1 minute ago
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Jan 7, 2015 14:39
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Brannock posted:This was recently published by Charb: "Still no attacks in France" "Wait! We've got until the end of January to offer our best wishes."
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Jan 7, 2015 14:41
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What's the other office?
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Jan 7, 2015 14:41
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3,000 police officers currently mobilized in the search for the attackers. While some sort of ISIS-related affiliation is technically a thing that is possible, no information about the attackers' affiliation has been found, and they don't seem to have explicitly affiliated themselves with any particular Islamic group during the attack. I only mention this because there was a similar lack of group affiliation for previous attacks on French media, including Charlie Hebdo in 2011, and Libération in 2013, and the same may very well be true for this attack (although the heavily armed and clearly planned nature of the attack does indicate some degree of organization).
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Jan 7, 2015 14:42
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quote:Brian Ries @moneyries 2m2 minutes ago
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Jan 7, 2015 14:44
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"beautiful French"? Pretty sure they mean "good French". Unless it's an expression that I don't know.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:45
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o_O
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Jan 7, 2015 14:46
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Possibly they meant correct/educated French. You know, without slang. EDIT: ugh. 
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Jan 7, 2015 14:47
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Unless explicitly stated, I have doubts this is an ISIS-sanctioned attack, given that ISIS seems to follow the branch of radical Islam that calls for purity within Islam before taking the fight to non-muslims. The shitstorm that will come out of this is going to be loving ugly.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:48
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Loucks posted:So this thread is just for posting variants of "This is tragic?" Are political implications really out of scope for D&D? Worrying about a political party getting a boost is a stupid thing to do when there are mass murderers running amok, yes. GhostofJohnMuir posted:They have the hardware to contribute certainly, but recent actions have shown that they don't have the logistics in place to really support a sustained effort. That's because most of the logistics is already used by ongoing sustained efforts, mostly in Africa. Operation Epervier in Chad has been going on since 1986 (in 2014 it was subsumed in Operation Barkhane). Operation Sangaris in Central African Republic is winding down, but still ongoing. There's over 20 000 French soldiers deployed overseas already. GhostofJohnMuir posted:Usually this is made up for by the US getting some kind of legitimacy boost for their actions because it's seen as less unilateral, but with the bombing campaign so far along now I kind of doubt they'd get that boost if France joins in. The point is moot because they've already joined anyway: this is Operation Chammal. The French aircraft carrier should join up the operation later this month, by the way. Deltasquid posted:Possibly they meant correct/educated French. You know, without slang. I wish for all of these people to be hunted down and killed. They believe it's alright to kill people for what they say, so it'd be legitimate to kill them for what they say. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 14:48
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Cat Mattress posted:Worrying about a political party getting a boost is a stupid thing to do when there are mass murderers running amok, yes. No? We're far more able to discuss the likely political implications of the attack than we are able to discuss an opaque ongoing pursuit of the terrorists. Until the chase has concluded one way or another and the events have entered the public record we can't really discuss them.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:51
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God drat. This is horrible.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:52
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Kurtofan posted:"beautiful French"? Pretty sure they mean "good French".
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Jan 7, 2015 14:53
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They also attacked during an all-staff meeting.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:54
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YF-23 posted:Unless explicitly stated, I have doubts this is an ISIS-sanctioned attack, given that ISIS seems to follow the branch of radical Islam that calls for purity within Islam before taking the fight to non-muslims. Don't start throwing around false flags, man.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:56
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Claims here that the gunmen claimed to be Al-Qaeda.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:58
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Cat Mattress posted:That's because most of the logistics is already used by ongoing sustained efforts, mostly in Africa. Operation Epervier in Chad has been going on since 1986 (in 2014 it was subsumed in Operation Barkhane). Operation Sangaris in Central African Republic is winding down, but still ongoing. There's over 20 000 French soldiers deployed overseas already. That doesn't really change the fact that their resource would be stressed if they took part in a bombing campaign. Unless they re-tasked away from African operations in a way in which they haven't previously. Cat Mattress posted:The point is moot because they've already joined anyway: this is Operation Chammal. The French aircraft carrier should join up the operation later this month, by the way. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was thinking about actions against ISIS in Syria in particular, which this operation does not cover and which I would think is a different kettle of fish politically.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:58
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Grapplejack posted:Don't start throwing around false flags, man.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:58
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The attackers seem to have hijacked another vehicle after ditching their own at the northern edge of the city. EDIT: Adding image.  I worry about anti-Islamic fools amongst the French public much more than I do any French political party's reaction to today's events. Today was coincidentally the release date for Michel Houellebecq's book Submission, which portrays a world where an Islamic political party has taken over France in 2022 after running against the Front Nationale. I have absolute faith that the publishers already spinning up the presses for another printing. Charlie Hebdo's most recent cover was actually a caricature of none other than Houellebecq: 
Combed Thunderclap fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 14:59
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rudatron posted:It's more likely to be muslim french nationals unaffiliated with ISIS committing an attack, is what I think yf-23 means. This. Then again, the actual allegiance of the gunmen isn't going to matter in the slightest when it comes to how this will shake out. Cat Mattress posted:I wish for all of these people to be hunted down and killed. So in other words, you're saying that it'd be legit to hunt down and kill you? A bit of an odd sentiment, that.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:01
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, strict Marijuana laws mostly just prevent your regular unstable person/idiot from easy access to Marijuana, not hardened/organized criminals or terrorists.  Looking forward to seeing the French foreign legion whip the poo poo out of ISIS.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:02
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YF-23 posted:Unless explicitly stated, I have doubts this is an ISIS-sanctioned attack, given that ISIS seems to follow the branch of radical Islam that calls for purity within Islam before taking the fight to non-muslims. Is this based on any facts or just your "gut" feeling?
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Jan 7, 2015 15:05
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My bet is it's home grown guys from the banlieus if they spoke really good French. Also. How the gently caress there was no security?! edit: nevermind Ligur fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 15:05
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Cerebral Bore posted:So in other words, you're saying that it'd be legit to hunt down and kill you? A bit of an odd sentiment, that. No, I just want people to be treated according to their own standards. Like Saint-Just, I say "no freedom to enemies of freedom". Ligur posted:How the gently caress there was no security? There was security, they killed security.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:07
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Another witness claims the gunmen told him to tell the media they were Al-Qaeda in Yemen.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:07
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